Just a short post about a BBC news story that I heard yesterday. The very hot weather has been encouraging people to go to the beaches around northern Europe. Apparently there is a ban on the wearing of burkinis in France - the more modest form of beach-ware designed for Muslim women.
Police appear to issue a fine to the woman, who is then seen removing a veil and baring her arms.
Nice's deputy mayor said the removal of burkinis was a "necessity" after the deadly jihadist attack last month.
No matter what you think of the actual burkini concept itself or what your opinions of modesty - should the government via the police be able to control how much clothing women wear?
Should police be able to force a woman to actually "remove" clothing and show more flesh?
How is this consistent with a free country?
This kind of thing makes me deeply uncomfortable - don't get me wrong: -
I don't think women should ever be forced to cover up but similarly I don't believe they should be forced to reveal more flesh than they want to.
Everyday governments seem to be removing more and more of our rights under the justification of preventing "terrorism" - where will it end?
When do we say it is too much?
This kind of over-reaching government behaviour basically tells us that the terrorists have won.
They have already deprived us of our liberty.
2016 : Police making a woman take off her clothing at the beach because she’s wearing too much.
1922: Police measuring a woman’s clothing because she’s wearing too little.
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Great comparison. It shows the idiocy of this sort of thing.
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This is just beyond belief. I'm speechless.
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Being asked to cover up is understandable. Yes, it is innapropriate when your ass hangs out at the office. But to tell someone that they need to strip and then basically pointing a gun at their head if they don't is akin to some really really creepy rape fantasy.
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Yes it is definitely creepy.
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@thecryptofiend
I bet that string buried between the buttocks is as uncomfortable as the burkini
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I think they designed the burkini so that it was thin and a lot more comfortable than a wetsuit.
In Australia, where skin cancer rates are through the roof because of the hole in the ozone layer above them, lots of non-muslims are wearing them as sun protection. Of course the burkini was invented by an Aussie in 2004, it has nothing to do with Arabia at all. More like helping muslims adapt to the aussie culture of swimming.
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Cool. I also never thought about the skin protection. I also wonder if wetsuits are now banned in France?
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Dunno. Lots of men swim with T-shirts on to hide their man boobs. People have body issue problems, and I'm sure that is the real reason so many of those ladies wear burkinis - the religion is really being used as an excuse not to display cellulite, while their non-muslim counterparts buy various creams designed to solve the problem and then self-conscious wear sarongs etc to hide it on the beach.
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I've seen that trick being used!
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@aenor, it's the same thing in the Philippines, many Filipinas want to have a lighter skin so they wear jogging pants , shirt or a long sleeved top to swim cause it's too expensive to get bleached just to be sun burnt again . A lot of actresses do this there . It's a normal thing there.
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That's sad though. You see that in India and Pakistan too. People want lighter skin. In the West people want a tan and risk skin cancer to get it. Nobody wants what they have.
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@thecryptofiend true sad - like what some anonymous guy's poem "man is a fool - when it's hot they want it cold and when it's cold they want it hot - always wanting what is not ." there's a reason behind that - Asians and some other people associate being dark to being poor. Some Orientals who have yellow skin wear sunblock and definitely don't want themselves to get dark skin when out in the sun. I got a dark skin - they call me morena or tan - in my experience - it has always worked for my favor. I love it and not planning to get poisened by getting bleached.
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@englishtchrivy Well said!
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Lol yes:)
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Yeah, so much for a free society.
I'm not Muslim, and I don't understand the need to have women wearing burkhas and hijabs and other coverings. At the same time, it's a violation of someone's right to privacy and freedom of religion to police religious garb like this. Using "fighting terrorism" as an excuse is particularly egregious. Also, it's just one more way that institutionalized powers are exercising control over women and their appearance.
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Exactly.
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so, in fact, France now has religious police keeping the women in line
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Lol. I didn't think of it that way.
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Wow, I had no idea this was happening. It's unfortunate, to say the least.
Thank you for your willingess to highlight this policy and start a dialogue!
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Thank you:)
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Believe it or not, terrorist attacks are false flag operations to initial wars, to deprive rights without people confronting it and to, it's ultimate goal, govern human being.
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Not sure that they are false flags but governments due use them opportunistically to take away people's rights. I'm more afraid of governments than terrorism.
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I saw this news story too and thought it was very sad. It feels like although the terrorists are no match for the military might of the free world, they are slowly winning the propaganda war. When governments crack down on the very freedoms they purport to protect, it only keeps the hatred and unrest going, and we will never know peace. Tolerance and understanding is what's needed, not misguided actions that only spur more bigotry.
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So true. This not only restricts freedom but also causes divisions between people.
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You cannot just ban burkinis and at the same time not ban wearing of wigs by Jew women or turbans by Sikhs. And what if some woman wears burkini not because of Muslim tradition but because she's just an eccentric artist doing some social experiment?
It's impossible to combat clothing! It is a radical Islam that is have to be banned, then there will emerge the legal grounds to ban its attributes.
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I agree you can't ban clothing.
This is where we disagree. You can't ban peoples beliefs. The best way to combat it is to educate people. Attempting to ban them will only make them more entrenched.
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You have to ban beliefs of those who ready to oppress and to kill. That's an emergency case, not the matter of education.
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You can't ban what people actually believe in their mind. You have to change their minds.
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The state should not be involved in anything. If someone wants to wear this to the beach then they wear it. simple.
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Agreed it is pretty ridiculous.
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Yeah but history has taught us time and time again that fighting oppression with more oppression always leads to a happy fulfilled society here we all ride unicorns and fart rose scented glitter.
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Lol.
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Wow. That is really strange!
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Yes and disturbing too!
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if u care about freedom.. then u shouldn't care wtf clothing ppl have on their body lol #noneofyourbusiness
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Spot on.
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I agree, Goverments are trying to rule our entire lives funny thing is we choose those people that are in power to vote or not to vote is the question.
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Yes.
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Thanks for sharing this man! disgusting how humans behave towards others sometimes. It's disgusting infact! :(
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Thanks for reading:) I agree it is sad.
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Ahh, thank you so much for sharing your perspective on this ban; it's refreshing to hear that not everyone agrees with this policy. I totally agree with you: regardless of one's opinion on hijab, the point is that government shouldn't dictate who can and cannot wear certain articles of clothing.
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Yes. My thoughts exactly.
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It is a weird world we live in and the tension seems to continue to rise.
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Yes.
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I'm with you on this one. I have a hard time not seeing this as an overstep.
Even better with the comparison pics on the top comment
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Yes those pictures perfectly point out the insanity of the rules. Also someone brought up the issue of wetsuits - they also cover the body and I wonder if the ban covers them?
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I agree, and so does a French court: Court overturns ban.
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Yes I heard about it on the news. Looks like common sense has prevailed.
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I confirm that all the idiots only talk about it here !!
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You mean terrorism or the birkini ban?
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Funny yet nobody asks the woman what she wants.
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This kind of thing creates domestic terror, domestic here meaning in the home. Forcing people to break Sharia Law will create violence within Muslim communities, according to Islam the community has a duty to enforce Sharia. This Sharia enforcement often takes very violent forms, even in western countries, so actions like this will have negative effects both for the west and for Islam.
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Not sure about that.
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And if true, even more reason to keep violent muslims in the middle east away from the peaceful centres of western civilization.
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You can't filter out violent people unless they point themselves out somehow.
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Nailed it @tommyboyle! While I agree with many of the statements made by others regarding the abuse of power by the state, that is not, in my opinion, the most important factor in this particular case. The French are very conscious of their culture and work diligently to define what that culture is, how it should be practiced, and the penalties for 'cultural' encroachment. Muslims, by religious law, have requirements that are in direct conflict with French customs, law, and cultural norms. It is also important, not to put to fine a point on it, that saying 'sharia law' is to say the same thing twice - a redundancy - the word sharia means law. So we have a conflict that pits a very modern society and culture against a medieval mindset and culture - to be a bit sarcastic; What could go wrong? Stating this as a case of the state against the practice of wearing a particular item of clothing ignores the larger conflict. It is, at the least, somewhat disingenuous to attempt to make this case without also making reference to the larger cultural conflict. So, I am not saying that French authorities are approaching this issue correctly, I'm saying that to ignore the larger case invites hypocrisy. Bottom line, Islam needs a reformation. Until that happens it will be in conflict in any country that does not practice sharia.
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Maybe it's just me, but if I was in all those clothes on a hot beach I would want an excuse to remove some of the clothes ....
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Maybe but nobody should be forced to remove clothing by the state.
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Was tongue in cheek. Of course it is a bloody ridiculous policy
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I thought so but it can be hard to be sure online:)
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Another paranoic behavior from the police.
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Yes. The police are just doing what they have been told to do by those higher up. It is the stupid law that is causing this.
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There goes the FREEDOM of the Republic of France which they have fought for centuries ago. Liberty, Equality and Fraternity! Liberty, the freedom from oppression of the monarchy. Now, they are oppressing Muslims. Equality, as the ruling class were more equal than others. Now, Muslims are not equal to the Liberals. Fraternity, brotherhood of Christian France only, Muslims are excluded because they don't dress the same at the beach. However, BRAVO to the French court.They are upholding the principles on which the French Republic was founded. The mayors of those 30 odd French municipalities have just exposed themselves as INTOLERANT French aristocrats. They still live in the time of their king, Louis XVI where the motto was: OPPRESSION, INEQUALITY AND ARISTOCRACY! What a joke! At least in italia we are NOT sheep! Ciao!
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I agree:)
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