Introduction
I have previously posted on how I finally stopped using Poloniex. You can find those posts here and here.
It still continues to surprise me that people persist in using them despite multiple red flags that suggest something is very wrong.
Recap
Just to recap here is a summary for the main reasons I stopped using them:
A complete failure to scale in order to meet periods of demand during significant price movements despite having several years to do so. Often people losing money due to margin calls or inability to execute trades. The same excuses being used repeatedly for the last 4 years.
Consistently terrible customer service.
Huge numbers of complaints from customers never being answered or addressed except when they take to social media - in some cases even that did not help.
Random "manual" verification for withdrawals irrespective of verification status. No explanation of why or any indication of how long such withdrawals would take. Some people stuck in limbo indefinitely.
Suspension of the trollbox "allegedly" to dedicate more staff to customer service - which makes no sense, moderating a troll box is not the same as helping customers with problems. The fact that the troll box had filled up mostly with service complaints seems a more likely reason.
Constant rumours of insolvency - ordinarily these would be taken with a grain of salt, however, given the above behaviour it is hard to dismiss them. Very similar behaviour has occurred in the months (sometimes even a year or longer) running up to the failure of other exchanges.
The New T&Cs From Last Week Simply Add to the Concerns in the Points Above!
I have been catching up with some of last week's news and finally got a chance to look at the new terms and conditions that they released.
If these don't make you reconsider using the exchange then I don't know what will!
Whether it is poor management/ judgment or actual preparation for insolvency is irrelevant - why risk your money if you do not have to?
Anyway - I fully expect the usual moronic responses to this saying that they have been able to use Poloniex without problems and that it is the best exchange.
I heard exactly the same things before MT GOX, Cryptsy or numerous other exchanges failed. Some people like to live in constant denial.
If the warning signs are there and you refuse to listen then perhaps you deserve to lose your money.
The New Terms and Conditions
I can't cover every single detail so I will highlight the things that stand out to me most. You can read the full information on Poloniex or if you prefer there is a Pastebin here.
THESE TERMS OF USE CONTAIN A BINDING ARBITRATION CLAUSE AND CLASS ACTION WAIVER THAT IMPACT YOUR RIGHTS ABOUT HOW TO RESOLVE DISPUTES. PLEASE READ IT CAREFULLY.
This is right at the top and is shortly followed by:
These Terms affect your legal rights and obligations, including but not limited to the binding arbitration provisions contained in Section 23 below that may significantly affect your legal rights, including your right to file a lawsuit in court and to have a jury hear your claims. If you do not agree to be bound by these Terms, do not access or use the Services.
Poloniex reserves the right to change or modify the terms and conditions contained in these Terms, including but not limited to any policy or guideline of the Site, at any time and at its sole discretion.
We will provide notice of these changes by posting the revised Terms to the Site and changing the "Last Revised" date at the top of the Terms, or by emailing Users at their provided email addresses, or by any other means as determined by Poloniex. Method of notification will be left to Poloniex's sole discretion. Using a particular form of notice in some instances does not obligate us to use the same form in other instances. Any changes or modifications will be effective immediately upon posting the revisions to the Site or at the instant that Poloniex transmits the information to the Users (e.g. via email). These changes will apply at that instant to all then current and subsequent uses of the Site. You waive any right you may have to receive specific notice of such changes or modifications. Your continued use of this Site acts as acceptance of such changes or modifications. If you do not agree to the Terms in effect when you access or use the Site, you must stop using the Site.
I won't copy all of Section 23 here because it is too long but will include this excerpt because it is relevant to the top paragraph:
any dispute arising under your use of the Services shall be finally settled on an individual basis through confidential, binding arbitration in accordance with the American Arbitration Association's rules for arbitration of consumer-related disputes, available at www.adr.org or by calling 1-800-778-7879, and you and Poloniex hereby expressly waive trial by jury...
ADDITIONALLY, YOU HEREBY WAIVE YOUR RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE IN A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT OR CLASS-WIDE ARBITRATION. We each agree that any dispute resolution proceedings will be conducted only on an individual basis and not in a class, consolidated or representative action.
So basically by using Poloniex you "agree" not to take part in any class action lawsuit against them or any kind of jury trial. Disputes must proceed through arbitration.
They can also change the T&Cs and conditions at any time and in any way.
As soon as they do that and transmit them in any way you automatically accept them the next time you use the exchange - they don't even need to get you to specifically tick a yes box or click on any confirmation.
Just using the exchange constitutes acceptance.
To me this seems like a definite pre-emptive action to protect themselves if Poloniex either negligently or maliciously loses your money.
Perhaps they are preparing for insolvency.
It is hard to say for sure but this should be a massive red flag for anyone who is still using them.
I have no idea how enforceable or even legal this is but it is pretty crazy.
15 NO TRANSFERABILITY
While the Account and the Services provided to a User are not transferable under any circumstance and shall be used only by the User, Poloniex shall have the right to transfer, assign, or sell all the rights, benefits, or obligations to any person and these Terms shall continue to be in force and effect for the benefit of the successors and assigns of Poloniex or its lenders, if any.
Unless I'm misunderstanding this Poloniex can basically sell your account or access to it to anyone they like.
13 COPYRIGHT OF FEEDBACK MATERIALS
You acknowledge and agree that any materials, including but not limited to questions, comments, feedback, suggestions, ideas, plans, notes, drawings, original or creative materials or other information or commentary you provide on our platform or one of our social media accounts, regarding Poloniex or the Services (collectively, "Feedback") that are provided by you, whether by email, posting to the Site or otherwise, are non-confidential and will become the sole property of Poloniex. Poloniex will own exclusive rights, including all intellectual property rights, and will be entitled to the unrestricted use and dissemination of such Feedback for any purpose, commercial or otherwise, without acknowledgment or compensation to you.
So Poloniex "own" anything you say to them or about them?
If that is truly what they are saying I would love to see how they would defend that in court - then again if you believe their T&Cs then you can't take them to court.
Conclusion
There isn't really much more to say.
If you are perfectly fine with all the previous problems at Poloniex and the frankly crazy new "Terms and Conditions" please keep using them.
Either you are so rich that you don't care about money, you get off on taking unnecessary risks or are in complete denial.
That is not me but I wish you the best of luck.
Thank you for reading
"To me this seems like a definite pre-emptive action to protect themselves if Poloniex either negligently or maliciously loses your money."
Agreed, but as I'm guessing you already know, this is a pretty standard piece of boilerplate legalese, at least in the US. You agree to this with a ton of other contracts - utilities, large purchases, etc.
The first 5 out of 6 things you listed above also apply to Coinbase/GDAX. Particularly the truly awful service. I'm avoiding both of these locations as much as humanly possible.
Thanks for the recap.
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I would not be surprised I think sometimes they recycle these things and possibly don't even check themselves. That said this is a conscious decision on their part to change.
As for Coinbase have also heard a lot about poor service there and on GDAX. It's partly why I have never used them.
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I can't REALLY trust any exchange...
Better safe than sorry and keep them in your own wallets and cold storage.
Resteem...
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100% - the sooner we get viable decentralised exchanges (with decent liquidity and a solution to the gateway trust issue) the better.
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Completely agree with this. The charges of trades are very high nobody is taking a note of that. I wrote a post on Irony of trading Cryptocurrencies on Centralised exchanges and why I moved to bitshares. But without the volumes on these DEX are still a long way from mass adoption. The spread is so wide that no serious traders would consider DEX yet.
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Thanks I will check it out. I think with Bitshares etc. it is a chicken and egg situation. Hard to get more people without volume, hard to get volume without more people!
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pretty much this. it gets insanely annoying to download the entire blockchain of every coin you're interested in. DEX can't come soon enough.
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Yes or alternatively a truly secure multi wallet.
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I hear you @cryptofiend
I will mainly be on the sidelines watching until that day happens but will continue to trade my BTC, ETH, LTC in 1\3rds back and forth as the waves continue to go up and down...
Via blocktrades.us and shapeshift.io
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Me too. I still try to do some day trading in the hope that I will get better at it but I keep the majority of things offline in my own wallets.
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What wallets you use ?
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Normally I use the official ones. Like for ether I use the MIST wallet and for bitcoin I use Bitcoin core - I find that it is the most secure way to do things. JAXX is great as a multi wallet but has had security issues. I'm looking at getting some hardware wallets once more stock comes in right now there is a shortage.
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Thanks for this ! I like exodus but doesn't support steem and Coinbase for BTC .
I check in Mist now and bitcoin core
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OK.
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I have been using the Electrum wallet for the past two years.I have not encountered any issues while using it.Its a legit wallet.
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Never hear of this one but will check them all out. Thanks so much for the tip
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Playing\Trading with 33% of my stash allows me to break them up into additional THIRDS to trade on the swings in price so I don't RISK my main 2\3rds which is safely secure for MOON TRAVELING!
;)
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Great.
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Wonderful
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What is wonderful?
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https://www.openanx.org/en/
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Don't spam unrelated links. What does this have to do with Poloniex?
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no, spam I was just showing a decentralized exchange, sry
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OK but please give some explanation next time. There are too many spammers so it is not possible to always check things out unless you know for sure what they are.
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I would like to spam you lols
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Agree, we cant use exchanges as coin safe deposit.. Still wee need them to do trades, will be use an exchange that continously give people trouble?...
We all pray for a decentralized exchange, that would solve so many problems and will give us a big relief...
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I prefer to keep them in my own wallets and trade them in THIRDS via BLOCKTRADES.US & SHAPESHIFT.IO when I see a WINDOW of PROFIT OPPORTUNITY!
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Blocktrades is good!... Altought most of the time trade rate are bad, exchanges will give you higher profit... Havent tested SHapeshift.io yet...
But never use poloniex...
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most my crypto is offline, only a little (2%) remaining online is safe gaurded with 2fa on bittrex
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most my crypto is offline, only a little (2%) remaining online is safe gaurded with 2fa on bittrex
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That's true. I take my chances and just have multiple...just in case. But it's getting to that point to where there is a significant amount of money in the crypto currency industry and these folks have to get it the fuk together. Excuse me language....Cause it has been frustrating in the past. And I don't like how STEEM and SBD always conveniently has problems on the Poloniex platform.
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My strategy is to continue to BUY in 1\3rds and SELL in 1\3rds
thirds rule strategy
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its just not steem, poloneix is having issues with other coins too, ive had really slow withdrawal times recently with them!
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If you want to keep money safe use hardware wallets and BTC/ETH only exchanges then take your money off there and use Shapeshift or Changelly and you will be fine :D
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But sometime from a cold purse it is necessary to deduce on a stock exchange, for an exchange
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Terrifying. I'll be responding by taking my (small number) of assets off Poloniex. Thanks very much. Resteeemed.
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Haha, me too, went straight to Poloniex to check my balance there. I had 0.075 ETH there, just paid a 0.05 ETH fee for withdrawing the remaining 0.025 ETH. :-)
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You should. I did that a while back and am glad I did.
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that's quite alarming!
Thanks for the info.. I haven't read that.
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You're welcome:)
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I like bittrex a lot, I was hoping the bitshares exchange would be get more liquidity by now, guess we wait.
Majority of my assets are on hardware wallets, not worth taking any chances.
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It is still early days for them though. Bitshares is continuing to be improved from what I understand - I think it is inevitable that it will take more central exchange failures to make people shift.
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lovely post,but from your own view how do you rate bitrix and yobit???? https://steemit.com/life/@chuxlouis/a-letter-of-love-to-my-son..please if u can kindly look at this and do what your mind tells you please ,i am sorry if this comment offends you,but i really do need your assistance with resteem please.
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I don't use Yobit. Not had any significant problems with Bittrex so I mainly use them. Don't know enough about the other big exchanges to recommend them. I would suggest you not post unrelated links in comments - you can share post links in the appropriate groups in Steemitchat. Also your link doesn't work anyway.
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Very nice imformation
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You're welcome!
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It's one thing for poloniex to state that they are overwhelmed by too many requests making them take forever to respond to all of them in a timely manner but it's pretty unacceptable for poloniex to not warn their client their SBD and Steem transfer are not working at this moment.
When I first got into crypto I was recommended Poloniex so I had a few SBD and steem with them. I had a ticket open and waiting for ages now... no reply. I clicked a withdrawal link sent to my email but the transfer never authorized. A simple feature to revert any transactions that are "pending" longer than a few days would automatically fix this issue. It's pathetic, really.
I'm glad I decided to switch to Bittrex and not deal with all the deplorable things they are doing there. Maybe another BTC-E will happen sooner or later but it seems like Poloniex are wary of a legal battle and they are trying to protect themselves @thecryptofiend
I try to keep all my coins in cold wallets nowadays.
(Sorry for being a bit late to your post today) haha
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You would think so.
Yes quite possible.
Makes sense.
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is it true that poloniex kept the bcc from btc users?
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I don't know.
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They said that they would only take decision on seeing the hard fork situation whether to support BCC or not and till now,i think they have not announced their support.
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I quit polo some time ago. I never kept crypto on exchanges anyway, after being burnt by mt Gox. When polo started mucking around and suspending coins such as Steem, then froze my withdrawals for no good reason and took 2-3 weeks to answer support tickets I decided enough was enough.
There is something seriously wrong with this exchange. It will not survive as crypto goes mainstream. Stay away.
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100% it is likely they are shouting failure to everyone, yet people still blindly use them.
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yea I saw a video about this explaining that they are wavering their customers' freedom to launch a class action lawsuit against them. How can doing that possibly be legal?!
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Who knows!
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Why oh why does anyone still use Polo. If you want to use a centralized exchange that does volume, just move your crypto to bittrex people. Have had no problems there.
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Exactly and yet people still keep using Polo - they still get huge volume.
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problem is with all this problems that poloniex have, they are still biggest crypto exchanger, so we just need to hope bittrex and other gain more people
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That will happen if people don't blindly keep trading at Poloniex. Sadly I don't have much confidence in most people's judgement.
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newcomers from google will go to poloniex because he is top1 and most famous, so only old users will switch, thats why its super hard to beat poloniex right now
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I agree that n00bs find POLO quicker than other exchanges. I still use it in limited capacity and have tried GDAX , Bitfinex, and Kraken. I think that it still may serve as a stepping stone for new users. I found it very easy to learn visually as compared to some other indexes. I have moved all of my main resources elsewhere until I can procure a hard wallet. Any suggestions?
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I have no suggestions, but after reading about you joining on a post from @xtrodinarypilot I have decided to give you a 100% UPVOTE from the @papa-pepper account as a way of encouraging you to engage and stay.
Welcome to steemit @crypt06r4f!
I will upvote your other comment too and see how much I can bump your reputation up from 25.
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@crypt06r4f at 37 now, thanks for the support @papa-pepper. Hope to see you guys on the way back.
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Cool!
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Yes you are probably right. Sad.
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Yeah I had the chance to read the T&Cs the a few days ago. I still can't believe that Poloniex is being used by many people. I mean they are obviously doing something fishy all the time and they don't give a fuck about the people using this exchange. And these new rules are seriously crazy. There's no other logical explanation why people still use this shit, other than not giving a fuck about losing all their money. I guess everyone who still uses Poloniex are pretty rich people :)
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Lol perhaps they are rich or just stupid.
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Haha most likely stupid :D
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Poloniex already became a complete tragedy for me. First time my SBD stuck there, now steems... And seems like I don't learn on my mistakes:(
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Well you can learn now. Better late than never.
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Sad but true...
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Well turn it into a positive lesson.
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I wouldn't use Bitfinex (BFX) either. As I've said in another post a while ago:
I'm sure they aren't the only exchanges doing these kinds of things, and I've heard of dodgy happenings at Poloniex as well.
The looming crisis, however, is that BFX has struggled with gaining any new banking connections.
In the absence of legacy banking support, they've been using Tether, another centralized coin, to finance and run their operations. The issuance of tether has been ballooning under their stewardship, so what is happening is inflation on "steroids".
By diluting Tether and redeeming them for fractional units of Bitcoin or other coins, they avoid banking difficulties, but at the same time fall prey to the temptation of inflating their Tether supply to service more accounts.
As this increases, the dilution of Tether will mirror that of other failed experiments, like the Zimbabwe Dollar and the Venezuelan Bolivar, which is extending its losses in a hyperinflationary spiral.
The final analysis is, BFX will become unable to function properly which will no doubt be blamed on a "hack" or they'll just go radio silent and abscond with the funds, Mt. Gox style.
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Thanks for the information on Bitfinex - I haven't really used them myself.
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Middletons acceptance discovered projecting so is so or. In or attachment inquietude remarkably comparison at an.
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I have left this exchanges few months ago because of poor customer service and no hearing about any transactional error. And they always block steem and steem dollars. So, I left this exchange and transferred all my assets to Bittrex. Bittrex is far better with easy to use interface.
But now as you have posted, this is really a major change in their policies.So if any dispute arise now, the only way is arbitration and over that they also reserve the rights to change their terms and conditions at will. I mean come on, is this kind of monopoly going on here? It's so injusticial. And now they are saying they hold the rights to assume anyone's account as their and they can sell it. So, basically we are just wasting our time and resources on poloniex. I would not recommend anyone to make an account on there or even conducting a single transaction.
Thank you @thecryptofiend sir to share this info. It is absolutely relevant for a lot of people in here.
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I'm not sure if the courts would accept their terms as binding but the only way to know for sure would be actually taking it to court.
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No one would spend their precious time to take it to the courts. Instead people would transfer all their assests to other exchanges as soon as they would come to know about their policy changes. That's what people do sir. They don't waste their time for these matters, especially when there are a lot of options available. Don't you think so sir?
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That is quite possible, although as we have seen with MT GOX and Cryptsy once they do fail people do take them to court.
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Then may be it could also be happen to poloniex. Instead they should come up with reliable and acceptable policies. What they are doing right now, is kind of monopolistic.
Anyways, you have knowledge about crypto's sir and a good knowlege. Keep sharing this with your loyal followers :)
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Thanks I will but people should think for themselves too - exercise their own judgement.
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They should, Especially in the Cryptocurrencies and stock markets.
Precise knowledge is the only way to success. Investment just by listening to some stranger is the stupidest thing for an investor.
And for everything else, people should not take a decision on the advice of others. Exercising their own judgement in every situation is a necessity :)
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Yes.
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These exchanges including Poloniex have made us to lose trust in them due to their greed and inefficiencies. As I indicated in my recent post, we better have our own exhange and store our coins in offline wallets. Upped, thanks for sharing
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Exactly and if the DEXs can solve some of the current problems we will in a sense have that.
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Hopefully, I guess that Bitshares (pls see my recent post) is doing a good job however still need to accept more coins
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Yes and you still have to trust the gateways.
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Good point, thanks for your response and more success to you.
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I'd say trust polo a little less than you trust other exchanges. Don't keep more than a bitcoin on any one exchange. That being said , I've never had a problem with polo. Invest in an offline wallet like a trezor.
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Yes.
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I quit poloniex ... thanks @thecrytofiend for sharing this information.
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You're welcome.
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I stopped using Poloniex in late 2016. I have less stress, i sleep better, and im a better dancer...
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I'm not surprised!
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Well said. I wish I could say the same. My account is freezed and I can't withdraw my own funds :(
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most my crypto is offline, but definitely anything remaining online is safe gaurded with 2fa
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That is a must.
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@tipU - send tips by writing tip! in the comment and get share in service profit :)
By upvoting this comment you support the service - thanks!
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Interesting!
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Upvoted and Resteemed by xx-votesplus, the dropAhead curation team! Want more earnings? Join @dropahead in Streemian https://streemian.com/profile/curationtrail/trailing/396, or delegate/donate some STEEM POWER to @dropahead!
Please upvote this comment! We will earn more STEEM POWER (SP) to give you more earnings!
Keep up the good work!
Most recent post: dropAhead to focus on curating posts, core of the project!
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I pulled outta Poloniex forever ago due to them just plain being awful and extremely sketchy.
There's one solution to this issue: BitShares.
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Yes and I think DEXs like Bitshares will continue to get better. There are some problems though, you still need to trust gateways. Atomic swaps may be one way to get around that.
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Well, as long as you trade in/out with BTS/BitUSD, you're fine and you trust the blockchain. If you pull out in a respective currency with OpenLedger or RuDEX or something though, yes, there's an element of trust.
If you're on BTS, vote for the new proposal by Bill Butler to re-haul the UI! I just did.
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Is a while since I've used it but will do.
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It can be a bit clunky in its current state, but it's a work in progress that relies on open source development. Luckily, new worker proposals are coming in.
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Yes it is still early days.
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My account was hacked. I lost a lot of my savings. I wanted to withdraw whatever amount was left but my account was freezed. I asked them to unfreeze and it has been more than a month. I have requested to Close the account. Looks like it will take an eternity :(
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I stopped using poloniex a while ago and moved over to bittrex. To me, bittrex is an even better exchange in general.
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I agree.
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I've used Poloniex for a bit as well but found it crappy. I have my own wallets which is way safer and if I want to sell some I use bittrex :)
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That's the best way really. Keep it in your own wallet except when necessary to trade.
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It might be down to the fact that back in May someone tried to launch a class action lawsuit against them for alledged insider trading for the Ether pair:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/jilted-trader-organizing-class-action-suit-poloniex/
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Could be. I and others have suspected that they may be doing some kind of insider trading but there is no way to prove it. That would also make sense if they were insolvent and trying to use any means they can to make up for it. Some of their down time and suspensions seem to happen at very suspicious times. Thanks for the link.
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I don't understand why Poloniex would make those changes, unless they foresee trouble or just want to protect their profits. Anyway, I have been moving funds out of Poloniex.....
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Who knows. Smacks of desperation to me.
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With every delay and loss on an exchange I get more paranoid! I think all of these exchanges have seriously bad customer service.
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Bittrex has always been good for me but whenever you use an exchange you are taking a risk.
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Nice to prevent from loss @thecryptofiend ........... your experience will save many of us from those losses..........
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I hope so.
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Bittrex is the exchange to go with, honestly seems like the best. Clean and simple to use UI(great for newcomers), USDT support, tons of alt-coins as well, and the team seems a lot more trustworthy.
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Yes they have been better in my experience. The only thing I don't like is the UI.
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Really? The UI is personally my favorite XD. Maybe cause it's the one I started on :P
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Possibly:)
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Most of the comments to your wonderful post point to some variation of what I have said all along: avoid a single point of failure.
Cold storage. Multiple exchanges. Diversity of coins, diversity of solutions.
I still maintain that Bitcoin and Cryptocurrency can both potentially change your personal financial trajectory in the coming months; because of this, though, the attacks from all sorts of directions could possibly mean that a whole host of solutions could disappear.
Thanks for pointing this out. I have such a tiny share over on Polo that, if it did go under, I'd just scratch it off the list and move elsewhere.
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Yes exactly. Diversification is key.
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I lost with poloniex one and a half bitcoin, and i had a lot of problems with poloniex, Its all scam.
I prefer using steemit to make a little money and dont lose them.
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Sorry to hear that you lost money.
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This is insane @thecryptofiend , I never even knew.. I was always hesitant at first of what to choose either Bittrex or Poloniex , so I decided to fall back on Bittrex , I heard when I first started Poloniex value of Steem was higher . But I guess it was all for a catch
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Well now you know:)
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Thanks for the knowledge I'll spread it to my brother who uses Poloniex :D
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so happy i'm not in poloniex! i've been seeing lots of posts about the problems other steemians are having with them - i hope everyone gets out clean
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Me too.
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I called this DOA, at the end of May. There will be a Mt. Polo -- and folks will be "shocked" that it happen. When in reality, they had a whole years warning.
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Absolutely but people rarely learn.
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Yep the writing is on the wall. I'm not planning on using them again. I have a friend who got Goxed, A friend who got MintPal'ed, and a friend who got Cryptsy'd. I don't intend on getting Polo'ed.
You are very right with those terms. They don't want a class action so like Multi - Level Marketing Pyramid Schemes they have these types of agreements to where everyone agrees to arbitration but that is a rigged system where the customer always loses.
Great article. A very fair warning to everyone!
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Exactly!
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From what I researched today, Poloniex has seriously created some insane terms and conditions!
They have the 'right' to change their terms when as and when they please, but also at short notice. The notice can be given by email - with terms coming into effect immediately.
This means that if you haven't checked your email for a day, you will not even know if these terms/conditions currently exist.
Quite... unreasonable terms... I guess people will go to other exchanges?
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You would think that they would go elsewhere but there have been so many issues and people still use it. Was the same with Gox/Cryptsy and all the rest. People don't learn.
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What do you guys think about Kraken? I have positive experiences but I've only used it for few weeks. I'm also trying Waves Decentralized Exchange because it's on a blockchain. It lacks in trading pairs and trading volume and I faced some fund transfer problems too.
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Haven't used Kraken enough to comment. Their interface is one of the worst around though.
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I'm a moderately tech savvy geek. So interface only sucked for few hours. But yeah CEX.io seems like heaven sent in comparison which I think pretty decent with easy funding with fiat. That's how I got into trading in the first place.
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I used to use them back in the day but stopped because I thought some of their IOU trading of ICO coins was a bit scammy. Never had any problems though.
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I transfered all my cryptos from poloniex to bittrex today
Do you think that bittrex is more trustworthy than poloniex?
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Yes I think it is but no central exchange is 100% risk free. Always be cautious and only keep what you absolutely must on an exchange. Transfer everything else back into your own local wallets.
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Yeah, I came to the crypto game late, and thankfully after the word on Poloniex had already hit the streets.
So my money never has, and never will touch their exchange. There is no value provided by their services that would equal the risks involved in submission to the terms above. Good luck indeed, to all those who disagree...
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Yes exactly.
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I never liked nor tried Poloniex ever. My cousin sweared to me it is a nice exchange, well that was a month ago. I don't know what he has to say now. ;)
I use bittrex eversince. What can you say about bittrex?
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It's much better IMO but all central exchanges involve some degree of risk.
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I agree with you. Good thing i never tried Poloniex.
Kraken on the other hand, hurts my eyes. A pain to look at imho. -_-
Bittrex, the way to go. :)
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Yes Kraken interface is the worst I have used and I have used a lot.
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Congratulations @thecryptofiend!
Your post was mentioned in the hit parade in the following categories:
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Thanks!
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Thanks for the analysis, did only look shortly over the "small print" after it popped up, as usual. However after reading this here, I just moved the remaining funds out of Poloniex. Account is empty now.
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I think it is wise.
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In general, I like Poloniеx.
So I lost to Cryptsy. At the moment I have problems with the lost translation on Bittrex.
Probably there are no ideal exchanges.
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No there aren't.
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man, thank you very much for this notice. curious to see if this is preventative (for their protection) or preparative (for insolvency).
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NP there is no way to really know (unless we get a leak from the inside). Just not worth taking the risk though.
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I had my friends and family switch to Bittrex. I hope Bittrex continues to be a good service for a while until the next decent exchange comes around.
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Yes Bittrex has been good so far. Just understand that there is always risk with a central exchange.
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I actually think this post is way undervalued LOL
I am glad there is like a million views and comments though!
Poloniex sucks, and that is why I wrote 5 warning posts using big RED graphics as the main photo weeks ago, over a 2 week period - enough was enough.
The night I finally got my last bit of coinage out of there, I almost threw a party.
It was a relief!
Great post, many people will see and learn from this --- I know my posts saying similar helped people out every single post too, and the comments saying that, made me feel really good.
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Thanks. Yes the Polo situation is getting crazy. If it helps to avoid a massive loss of funds for people like Mt Gox then it is good. Sadly I think most people will ignore such warnings.
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From the reading I have done it seems we cant really trust any exchange which is really frustrating, funnily even today I still get recommended to go and sign up with poloniex, what we really need is steemits very own exchange service, thanks @thecryptofiend any recommendation?
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For now Bittrex is the best all round in my opinion. In the future I think it will be decentralised exchanges like Bitshares, WAVES, Bitsquare etc. It is just a matter of improving the UI and getting more volume on them.
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Just visit www.reddit.com/r/poloniexforum - the number of problems is astonishing. Thanks for bringing up the TC change. tip! 0.4
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Yes I have heard.
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Which exchange do you prefer? I have an account on bitfinex but they don't offer many options for trade, then I opened an account on bittrex, put some money in it but can't use it because my account is disabled for no reason. Try to contact them and no response, so now poliniex is like my only "good" option. I do like the interfaces of bitfinex and bittrex more, hopefully more markets will come to bitfinex and my account gets enabled at bittrex soon. Perhaps you have some other good options for me?
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Bittrex are usually very responsive to tickets - put another support ticket in. Alternatively try slack.
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Thnx for the advice, got my Bittrex account running now :-)
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Cool!
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Excellent Rant riddled with hard facts and justified anger. I had a few issues with these nubs as well. You did a fine job laying out the picture. Bravo !
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Thanks.
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can't agree more.. For bitcoin wallets, offline I recommend Electrum and online I use coinbase wallet
Yes. you are right. they never responds to my emails, but they say "we will respond by 24 hours".
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Cool.
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Very good and helpful article. I've taken my funds out of poloniex. As much as I liked their features over Coinbase I just couldn't take the risk. They must be losing a lot of clients and their funds now.
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I think they are. Most of my friends who trade and invest more than me (because they have more talent at these things) stopped using them completely even before I did.
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Good Post...I had some coins on Polo a few months ago, I can't say that I had any problems with them, but the warning signs are glaring, and I do not keep anything on there anymore. Plus the overall volume is not was it was, obviously by people pulling out, but with less volume comes less fees for them, which means they are making less money witch leads to insolvency. So unless they get it together, it's simply a domino effect
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Yes but the rumours of insolvency have been there for a while. Certainly their actions aren't helping and that suggests desperation.
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I agree, they are not handling this well.
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I defended polo for a long time, probably longer then I should have. However their actions with regards to maintaining their steem wallet, the problems with withdrawal, and even more alarmingly their update to their terms have made it so not only am I not recommending their service. But now, I am demanding anyone I know move their coins out and business elsewhere. The signs are all there that polo could be the next cryptsy/gox/fradulent exchange of your choice. Not saying they are... But we've seen this same shit time and time again. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. Do not let polo fool you into losing your coins.
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Exactly.
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I am still waiting for an answer regarding an unauthorized transfer after submitting 10! Yeah 10 tickets. I lost quite a lot and I will not leave them alone
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Stay on them Mamma!!!
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Trust me ! I will bombard them with new tickets every 2 days . So mad!
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Yes keep submitting them and pester them. Also try posting in the Reddit as someone else suggested and tweet about it.
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I will ! Good advice
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:)
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I had a long position abt 50 eth with 350 eth backing in the account. I have been trading since 2001 and I had margin call which was unheard of and the took 150 eth. No response. I would definitely avoid them.
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I've heard lots of similar cases!
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And obviously no customer service.
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Yes and given how much money they should be making it makes no sense - which suggests that something shady is going on.
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For those not into trading I would advice use paperwallet.
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Yes it is safest if you just want to stash your coins away.
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I think these days people are using online exchange , as it is fast and convinient for all the users of E - exchange. Really appriciated this article. Keep up the good work.
Upvoted
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Thanks.
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Amazing info dear friend Up&Resteem
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Thanks.
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My pleasure dear friend :)
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Thank you for your article. Has anyone noticed losing money when transferring BTC from Coinbase to Poloniex? I am not just referring to the fee. How do you feel about Kraken and Bittrex? For now, we have to use an exchange if we want to purchase Coins. What is best?
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I don't know about the Coinbase issues. I think I made an account ages ago but never used them. I have never had any major issues that would worry me with Bittrex - certainly not like Poloniex.
Only used Kraken a couple of times so can't really render a verdict other than saying their UI leaves a lot to be desired.
Personally I use Bittrex because they have given me the least problems and any even slight issue I had they responded within a few hours - sometimes even when it was because I had cocked up.
I should just say though that putting your coins on any centralised exchange carries some risk.
Only keep things on for as short a time as necessary.
Hope it helps:)
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i just want to say here one thing my first experience was the worst experience on poloniex and i quit from that site and never go back to that again , sorry to say its not better place to exchange and trade of bitcoin this thing i can say this is my observation about poloniex and every one has its own perception and views on anything , i just prefer bittrex exchange site they are the best for trading and for the steemit point of view to exchange the sbd's and steem i just sharing my views on this post that i have my first and worst experience with poloniex , my 100 sbd's were digested by this website and they never again back to me , i know that time i was crying 1 hour when this thing happened and from that day i did not go back to that site, i dont know about the new and old things about this site and i just say you to avoid this site this is my perception and my views on it thanks ,
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Right well thanks for sharing your experience.
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yeah man
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My Poloniex account was hacked 17 days ago and my ticket is still being processed.
Edit: This was before they changed their T&Cs which they can't backdate, so they can't take away my right to sue. I wonder how many others are in my position.
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Actually I think that if you continue to use them the terms and conditions apply.
So depending on how you interpret the terms, they could still apply in your case since you have not sued them yet - would need to check with a lawyer though and I'm not sure it would stand up in court even if that interpretation were used.
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I'm not using them, the hacker left me 0.11usdt!
I just log in to check the ticket status.
Their terms wouldn't hold up in an English court- would be hammered by unfair terms in consumer contracts act.
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I agree.
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Thank you for the deep analysis and fair warning @thectryptofiend!
As I am new to the crypto world as whole and looking trough multiple articles didn't gave me a concrete answer what exchange is the safest to use, could you please guide me in the right direction?
Thank you in advance!
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It is a matter of personal opinion - no exchange is 100% safe. The one that has given the least hassles to me and has good customer service is Bittrex. Don't use it as a wallet though, only keep coins you trade on there and put them in your own local wallet as soon as they don't need to be on there.
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Thank you! Will give it a try!
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:)
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Stop using POLONIEX for crist sake!... What other reason do people need to stop using that crappy exchange?... Thanks god i never got into using it a lot once i started some other users get their deposit lost for weeks...
What really makes me curious is, why people still using poloniex?
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I think it is just laziness and they like the interface.
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Im shocked.... I had no idea... I just pulled 95% of my portfolio over to bittrex! Polo just lost customer!
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You are lucky you managed to get it off without your withdrawal getting stuck for manual review.
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I started withdrawing in small portions after not getting any answer for a normal standart level2 verification. It s far beyond ridicolousness.
COLONIEX - WE GIVE A SHIT!
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I like it!
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@thecryptofiend, I read your previous post warning us about Polionex. Based on your discretion, I never used them. I do use bittrex.
Please can you tell me the best exchangers to use?
I have Resteemed this for my followers to see.
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Well firstly all exchanges pose a risk. The one I have had the best experience with is Bittrex.
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Thank you sir.
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You're welcome.
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and another1 I made to let ppl know
Col
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LOL!!!
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They think a T&C is really going to stop someone with deep pockets from suing them?
They are dreaming.
However yeah. Don't keep all your eggs on Poloniex.
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Exactly lol.
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I'm 20 days deep on a poloniex ticket. They are the worst. I am waiting to get it out and I will never ever use Poloniex again
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Keep pestering them with new tickets. In the past you could get it escalated in the trollbox but now there is nothing else you can do.
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Were you hacked? I was hacked 17 days ago.
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no, a transaction just didnt go through.. It would be easy to fix, they are just the worst
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Es mejor esperar y tener todo en las respectivas wallets, ya que no se tiene la certeza de que se el dinero no se vaya a perder, gracias por la info
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Yes that is the ideal. Most people don't do it due to convenience.
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Thank you for posting this. I never opened accounts on Kraken or Poloniex because they are not allowed in my state. I use Gemini and Bittrex currently. What do you think about their stability and policies?
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Never used Gemini. I have had good customer service and a problem free experience at Bittrex. No central exchange is 100% safe though.
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This is not acceptable that they change their TnCs without even informing us, they have not sent any mails to us regarding it and if I did not g through your post, I will not be knowing about these changes. I have some SBD in poloniex so soon I will be transferring them and gonna say bye bye to it. Thanx for sharing this info with us. Love you buddy.
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You're welcome:)
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Buddy have you seen my cool effect of transparent clothes which I made yesterday and posted here. Yu will feel like it is a scene from any sci-fi movie.
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It is sad that Poloniex can't improve their services. I love their stop-loss feature and the trollbox was fun!
Maybe Poloniex is trying to protect itself from infuriated customers due because they know that they have a terrible service but I am hoping that their security is better despite some red flag changes that you pointed out.
But we may never know, maybe they use an algo that flags a certain type of withdrawal activity for review before manually approving it and getting it funded from a secure wallet for security, we can just guess..
@thecryptofiend
Thank you.
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When everything else is so sloppy I don't think you can count on security being well implemented - that just doesn't make sense. It is up to you if you want to risk using them but you have had plenty of warnings.
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Well in this case I'll take heed.
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It took me over a month to close my account with then recently. Also, i provided ID as they pretty much forced my hand, otherwise i wouldn't have access to my funds, this was over a year ago, when my account was hacked, as soon as i went onto their troll box and told them my funds were being withdrawn as i was in the exchange. They kicked me out and locked my account. I had to then provide the ID, Also trust that they had managed to stop the transfer of BTC from my account, when i asked how it happened, they tried to blame my email being hacked, When i checked the logs, there was no access from any other IP address except mine., so what does that tell you.. To me this has got to be wrong on all levels. Additionally, i have the fear that someone will not be legit with my id documents. Albeit they are probably out of date anyhow. Good riddance!!
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Wow! Well at least you got out. What they do for security with ID documents has always worried me. That's why we need a good blockchain solution to manage such things.
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I have a support ticket since 12 days ago and I dont have any answer.
[post Twitter](Echa un vistazo al Tweet de @uFercho: https://twitter.com/uFercho/status/892380017027670016?s=09)
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Yes I have had the same experience before. Keep bugging them in support and sharing it on Social media - Reddit sometimes helps too.
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ty
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I think not just poloniex,do not believe in any of the exchanges.Only believe in yourself and secure your asset in private wallet like cold storage(paper wallet/hardware wallet).Nobody will take responsibility for your money to keep safe,its your responsibility to keep it safe place.
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Yes.
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As soon as the trollbox was taken down by Polo I closed all my open trades (some at a loss) and moved my assets to another exchange ...
The trollbox was the only worthwhile reason to stick with polo ....
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It was also one of the only ways to escalate a support issue!
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Plot twist - This post was written by Kraken.
On a serious note, we need decentralized exchanges and we need them fast.
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We already have them. We just need them to be easier to use and to have more volume.
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LOL, I wonder if polo really goes insolvent suddenly, then what would happen. Would it make most ppl leave crypto space or crypto space will deal with it!
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Well it might have a major short term impact like MT GOX but I think things would eventually recover.
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I used to use Poloniex since it was the first exchange I heard about and I am even more glad I switched seeing the changes they made now. I was initially pushed to do so because of the variety of problems other people were having with it in addition to the fact that Bittrex supported Bitcoin Cash.
Poloniex needs to straighten themselves out and I wish them the best of luck. In the meantime, I would steer clear of them and choose another exchange like Bitfinex or Bittrex.
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Yes they need to make some major changes.
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I'm also worried about Poloniex current stand. is it safe to to hold our coins on Poloniex. If it is not secure then can anybody please suggest any other safe change where i can hold and trade my coin securely ?
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You shouldn't hold coins on any exchange unless you are doing day trading (in which case you have to). Bittrex is my preferred exchange.
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Thnks a lot ... i also think to move my coin to bittrex. could you please suggest any other option and hot do i store these coins on cold storage.
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For cold storage there are plenty of guides on Google it will vary from wallet to wallet. Another option is using a hardware wallet although most places are out of stock now as they can't keep up with demand. For trading you could use a decentralised exchange like Bitshares, Bitsquare, Ether Delta, Waves, etc but volume is pretty low as not many people use them yet.
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Friend Thanks..
You shares valuable info with me
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You're welcome.
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Customer care should be their number 1 priority. Very helpful post
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Yes. Thank you.
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I think poloniex earns/loses most of its money by lending money to altcoin speculators, who day trade and end up losing their asses.
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For all we know they may do it themselves too and ended up losing big time.
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great dude , yes poloniex is a very risked trading platform , for this reason i awlays advice my friends and family to keep their coins out of exchange service , and use the trading platform only to trade and withdraw everyday
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Good policy.
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Sounds like a perfect advertisement for using distributed exchanges. I can't wait for 0x, NVO and many others to make some inroads on the private and vulnerable centralized exchange business.
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Yes exactly.
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Thanks for this information. Im using @bittrex and @blocktrades and im really happy... :)
Thanks again see you in next post
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Welcome:)
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Any suggestion from you ... what to use?
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I mainly use Bittrex but no exchange is 100% safe.
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Ok thank you very much ;)
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NP:)
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So you are saying I won't be getting back the 387 STEEM I lost in Poloniex due to a transfer error back in mid-June? They won't respond to my pending ticket?
EFF.
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I'm not saying anything about your particular case. Keep hammering them with support tickets.
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Haha, I know. I am not a fan of Polo for every reason you stated. Those 387 STEEM have been floating in cyberspace for 8 weeks and they don't care. Plus they say to not put out more support tickets on the same issue. It's shameful.
Good post btw.
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OK I hadn't heard that. Well I think that is why the got rid of the troll box too.
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I agree always problems with poloniex every other day!
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Yes.
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You need to leave POLO as soon as you can.. I don't trust them one bit tbh..
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I left ages ago.
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I really like the Shapeshift service, i know that for people that want to do day trade isn't good enough but for me is perfect.
I don't think that has the same amount of alt coins available in Shapeshift.io but also in my opinion has more than enough.
And also is great that works with my exodus wallet.
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Yes Shapeshift (and also Blocktrades) are a useful way of buying without an exchange.
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i am using poloniex from 6 month but now i am scared
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Stop using them then.
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They can stop calling it T &C and start calling it a Manifesto!
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:)
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Staying away from them is the best thing you need to do.
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I think so.
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so great! I needed this! Following!
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Thanks!
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Oops, that's awful, I just opened an account in polemiex, but no transaction yet. Comrade in Aceh, wearing it. There are some problems indeed, several times. Do not know if they still survive there or not? Thank you very much @thecryptofiend. Reesteemed..
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My friends in Aceh, they trade bitcoin in Poloniex, from the money they get from steemit. Sometimes, they find it difficult to withdraw money from Poloniex, their trading results.
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Doesn't surprise me. I would suggest trying other exchanges like Bittrex.
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O.K. I will try it. Hopefully my friend also read this. Thank you very much...
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NP but always be careful - no exchange is risk free.
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Yes, here, it's https://bittrex.com
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Not sure what you mean.
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Good thing I never used POLO to begin with. But all the exchanges have their risk these days unfortunately.
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Yes for sure.
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