Very well thought out. I've experienced some of the same things, though only a couple were extreme at all. One was while we lived in the country, where us city folk (which I was only kinda) were ignorant and the other was actually in Hawaii, where I was the haole that was an enemy simply because I existed. We were able to just write off the wrong attitude in the country, though they sure could be mean about it. The haole issue got physical, though nothing that was very serious and our time there was only a couple weeks. Still, though 35 years ago, I can remember the feeling.
I like Freedman's perspective on it, as he recognizes that a huge part of the problem is that it's promoted by focusing on it. How much would it disappear if folks weren't looking for every excuse they could find to call someone a racist? Of course, if I had said these things independently of agreeing with Freeman, I'd be called racist by many.
RE: Have I experienced racism?
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Have I experienced racism?
I have tried to say those same things. And you are right, they don't listen, they just decide I am racist.
I say as soon as we stop thinking of ourselves as a specific race beyond simply the "Human race" that is when we will have defeated racism. as long as people self identify as white, black, brown, etc then there will always be racism. It may be subdued at times, but it will still be there waiting for another season to bloom.
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One of the challenges I have is trying to embrace racism based comments for their intent, rather than the literal ramifications.
One example is the Black Lives Matter statement. It's true. And the point initially made has some value, because it's in the face of oppression. But, does it really help or does it harm?
IMO, disregarding the problems with the official group (focusing only on the slogan itself), it does more harm. It brings greater focus on the division rather than mending it. Perhaps "Black Lives Matter Too" would be better? Or it would have more impact if white people carried the banner, but black people held something complementary and uniting (nothing directly coming to mind right now).
The other is the white privilege thing. On one hand, I have to admit that the concept is very real. On the other, the very words are horribly wrong.
The main problem with the terminology is that it confuses privilege with rights. Rather than focusing on the fact that in many cases people are not enjoying the same degree of freedom as others based on the color of their skin, it focuses on the rights that one segment gets to enjoy. It misses the point entirely. And by bringing "male" into the picture, it just exacerbates the issue.
By embracing this slogan, a way to fix it would be to take these perceived privileges away from white men. Then we could all enjoy a lesser degree of freedom together.
A smarter and, IMO, more virtuous course would be to focus on the denigration of freedoms of some segments of society based on superficial categories. We should be fighting for one another's freedoms and a lack of equal ability to exercise our rights rather than demonizing one segment because they have more liberty to exercise some rights than others.
When it comes down to it, we're being played off each other. It's a media circus augmented by a culture where everyone is a victim of everyone else. Politicians have a field day with it.
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Yes I believe it is mostly media fueled. I've been around long enough to see racism and bigotry decline a massive amount since the 1970s which was the earliest I was around with memory. It was going good places. Then the media started hyping certain things. What CERTAIN law enforcement is doing is appalling. It is not new. It is actually likely that it is less than it was not too long ago. I don't hear stories about lynchings and things like that. I hear stories about police abuse. I believe that abuse has existed for a long time. It is just being heavily reported now. IT SHOULD BE. We also should be doing something about it for blacks, and everyone else. INDIVIDUALS who harm others should be held accountable regardless of the skin color, sexual preference, religion, etc of the individual.
We also seriously need some critical thinking taught to people. Most people have no clear understanding of what a GENERALIZATION is and how it is a total logical fallacy. If a person refers to "BLACK people are X" they are implying ALL black people are specific thing. If they say "That was WHITE of you" they are doing the same thing. Generalizations are false. We are all humans. We are individuals. A person attempting to group you up and label you does not change the fact that people are individuals. The labels and groups are people choosing to stereotype, classify, and generalize. If there are medical/genetic concerns that are critical to such grouping that is one thing, but that is about the only reason I can think to group someone.
As to BLACK LIVES MATTER. I was okay with the term and what it meant when it came out. Yet as with anything that emphasizes a color (or a specific group) it is open to interpretation. Some have chosen to interpret that as ONLY BLACK LIVES MATTER, or perhaps BLACK LIVES MATTER MORE. I don't say that is the entire movement. It is not. Yet they are often very vocal and active. The news also loves to show them.
Really what BLACK LIVES MATTER meant was ALL LIVES MATTER so why are black people being attacked, wrongfully prosecuted, and harrassed by law enforcement at a disproportionate level. It was EASIER to say BLACK LIVES MATTER. Some of them don't think ALL LIVES MATTER delivers their message. I personally believe it does. Because, the attacks by law enforcement are disproportionately high for blacks, but they are too high for EVERYONE.
Furthermore, it is often black law enforcement officers doing it. Not always, so this problem is a lot wider than simply blacks being attacked by non-blacks.
There is also a problem in the nation where DISAGREEING with something a person of color says quickly gets you lumped as a RACIST.
If a black guy says "The earth is flat" and I disagree that does not mean I am racist.
The truth doesn't care what color we are. So if someone says something illogical or false and I challenge it, my challenge will never have a damn thing to do with their skin color.
It is actually the person that pulls the racist label in such a disagreement that is racist. They believe they should be able to say whatever they want and people must simply agree with them, or they are racist. Without realizing it... they are the one enacting the racism.
And ultimately I believe the issue would have healed itself, and we would have come together united to deal with the problems of the Law Enforcement and other issues, but the media keeps making it worse. People now are not focused on Law Enforcement... they are focused on talking about white privilege, and that what you said sounds white (was done to me below this).
As to White privilege. It really depends upon where you live in the nation. When I lived in Texas in the 70s there definitely was white privilege. In Colorado where I've lived I've never see that. In fact, I've only encountered special privileges for minorities.
I do know that other parts of the country it is apparently very bad. It is white people living in these places that confirm this. Yet we are a nation of 50 states and they are not all the same. This is another generalization. I'd heard about the racism vs whites on Hawaii before from another friend that lived there for a couple of years, but I've never visited it.
I actually myself have NEVER received any special benefit due to my skin color. Not a single time. For people that believe White Privilege is everywhere, maybe that is just bad luck...
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TBH, I missed the reptilian. That's funny. I think if it was later in the article I might have caught it, but my focus was on content first, so I wasn't as in tune with the topic yet. Of course, I might have missed it anyway, since I tend to be bigoted against many reptiles.
I get the impression I have just a few years on you. We were middle-class and I grew up around a lot of wealth. It wasn't mine, but I got to enjoy some of the benefits of it because of spending time with friends. IMO, that was a privilege, but it just was what it was, having nothing to do with ethnicity. My point is that it wasn't my right, and that's how it would be regardless of ethnic background. Mom's family was poor - cotton pickers and hillbillies. We actually have a trace of African on her side, but it doesn't show that I'm aware of. Dad's side was farmers and entrepreneurs, fairly comfortable but not rich.
We've enjoyed a lot of love on both sides. That's just human.
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Agreed.
I really have no idea if I've benefited from the color of my skin. As another generalization, though an accurate one, whites tend to have more financial resources. So I won't look that gift horse in the mouth.
I was passed for a promotion in favor of a black guy once. Some who knew us both said they thought it was his color. I sincerely doubt it. He was a very organized and efficient worker whose style was very different than my own. I think he earned it, and I was promoted to the same level as soon as their was an opening.
I got passed up for a job in favor of a woman once. They actually told me that they had to hire a female. It was a regulatory thing. Crazy world. I was disappointed at the time, but couldn't care less now.
Thanks for the chat. It was nice resonating with someone, in spite of the added comment that seems bent on fueling the fire.
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I've been in on meetings where they were forced to hire a minority. I don't know that it every happened to me. I have been a very vocal person trying to get a black person I worked with promoted to a position above me because I respected him and his work. Eventually we succeeded. I would rather people get the job due to their abilities, not due to race or gender.
I realize there are still bigots that are biased, yet I believe most of that died off a couple of decades ago. Though this resurgence of racism is NOT helping. It is setting things back. It is actually making some people racist who were not because they get caught up in one or more sides of the emotional journeys and groups going on. It is not a positive thing for ANYONE.
I truly try to treat everyone equal. I don't really see a person based upon skill, colors, etc unless it is forced upon me.
I've had black people I really respected, and friends that were black that I had these discussions with. I haven't seen any of them for many years and that was all before the BLM and media blitz... so I don't know if they are changed, but I kind of doubt they had... they were smart people that spent time thinking rather than getting sucked into emotional tornadoes.
EDIT: As to better finances. I've never lived anywhere that helped me. I grew up in a very poor white family. Lived in trailors, used out houses some times, on food stamps most of my life as a child, etc.
I am not on assistance now, but I just barely scrape by because I am taking care of 7 people on just my income.
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Before I forget... how did you like my sticking that "Reptillian" on the end of the line of races in my intro image... :P That was my secret humor.
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I love that video, and I love Freeman.
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Third reply... that video is SO good. That is exactly what I've been trying to convey for some time. I'll be reusing that video frequently I am sure of it.
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Not really well thought out all. You might want to consider why their are black TV shows, black colleges, etc...
did you even ask yourself why?
Did you ask your self why their are no white schools.
Look at the history of this country and then ask yourself why?
Because of racism...these things were created.
White racsism!
Why in the hell would their be a need for a white school when they were created for white people and the exclusion of black people. When black people went to these schools they exprienced racism in the form of harassment and violence.
You are acting like these black schools were created yesterday. they were created because of white racism ...sir.
I could go over on all of your comments and show you lack of knowledge about knowledge of why things are the way they are.
But honestly...It would be a further waste of my time.
Your argument hold no water because it assumes that we have all been treated fairly and so we should all have have the attitudes.
That's awfully white of you.
I will just leave you with this...Ask yourself why ?
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I have already asked those things. Actually thought it our very far. I don't think most other people have.
Sure there was slavery, there was racism (go back far enough and there was white slavery, still is in some places, and there was racism white on white with Irish, just like Rwanda was black on black fairly recently). The racism was keeping the black people held down even when the racism was supposed to be illegal.
The idea was to create scholarships, schools, and shows so that they couldn't be stopped by the racist people who were keeping them down before.
That is typically how it starts. With good intentions.
Yet the end result of giving ANYONE special treatment no matter how good the intention is that over time that GROUP (doesn't have to be just skin color) will be receiving special treatment. You cannot define it any other way. If they get it and others do not then it is SPECIAL. This is not equality. Now the thing about equality is that the same opportunities should be available for anyone to attempt to seize on an equal foot. They may choose not to seize those opportunities.
Doing these actions promotes racism. It is emotional, sympathy, empathy, and reasons of this nature that make people believe these special treatments are a good thing.
We (all of us) should not be seeking special treatment. We should be seeking equal treatment.
We must also understand that despite any goals for equality there will be assholes who gain influence who are still racists (or other form of bigotry). When they are caught doing such actions they should be held accountable. It should not be a case of suddenly making laws that apply to everyone to try to stop someone from acting like that person again. This is criminalizing everyone for the actions of someone rather than holding that person accountable. It is also special treatment.
As long as people like you believe it is required then I wouldn't expect to see racism ever go away. It'll just shift around as to which group it is politically correct to bash, and which group it is not. Basically racism and bigotry alive and well.
If you are not white and you bash white people. You are a racist.
If you are white and you bash non-whites. You are a racist.
There is no dancing around that.
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Oh and whether you wish to admit it or not. You are racist. Only you can decide you wish to be or not to be.
Why do I say this?
Pretty simple. Your own words condemn you.
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Some food for thought. "That's awfully white of you" indicates there is a different way white people act from others. That actually sets back strides in racism quite a bit. People like you that say things like that make Nazis and white supremacists very happy as they think white people think different as well. They believe they think superior.
Hitler agreed with them.
I tend to see humans, and not color. I don't believe there is a way WHITE people act and a way BLACK people act and a way ASIAN people act. Yes, there are cultures people are raised in but that is a construct. It is not actually part of their genetics, or being human.
The smart people that strove to get "equal" rights... not "special" rights wanted such things as "A black man does X", and "that is so like a white man" to go away.
That is the seed of where it all starts. A group deciding they are different and that ALL others of another group are a certain way. It is very primitive thinking that has nothing to do with color, but simply a lack of our education system covering critical thinking worth a damn. They really don't. It is a shame too as if ALL of us had such education I don't think we'd be having such discussions and I believe racism and most other bigotry would be a non-issue. They don't really stand up to critical thinking. The problem is that critical thinking is not telepathy. You cannot force another person to internalize and know what generalizations are and why they are false, or why an appeal to authority is not proof.
There is no WHITE way of doing things, no BLACK way. There are simply different ways. People can be assholes and racist regardless of color. They can be bigots too.
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