Proof of Reading - POR -- Self-Voting comments is a good thing...

brandonp (63) · 7 years ago

I 100% agree that self-voting should be encouraged. My thinking is this: I should upvote content (whether that is posts or comments doesn't matter) that I deem to be valuable. I also believe I should only post content that is valuable. Therefore, if I post something, I believe it has value and therefore it deserves an upvote. If I post something that isn't deserving of my own upvote, then why am I even posting it in the first place?

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tremendospercy (65) · 7 years ago

I agree with you regarding self upvoting of comments. It is currently the right of everyone to do it however I have one caveat. I had a commenter a couple of days ago who wrote a comment, self voted $12 and didn't vote for the post.
I thought that was rude. To use my post as a catalyst for self payment and not share the wealth even a little bit is bad etiquette IMO.
Upvoted you and my comment 😀

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6 votes

goldgoatsnguns (60) · 7 years ago

I've had that exact thing happen to me and it drives me nuts. Most of my community are minnows. Dedicated but new to the platform and don't have a lot of SP. So, they do the right thing and I make $0.40. Then some guy comes in says, "great post" and pays himself $1.00 and me nothing.

That's just beyond rude.

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whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

Thank you for engaging in the conversation

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goldgoatsnguns (60) · 7 years ago

And thank you for caring so much about it. I, like you, feel Steemit is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to take control of both our content and our time. We are the drivers of value but to this point it's been the middle men making all the money.

And the community needs to realize this and use the power of the comment as well as the post itself to remunerate them for their time and ours.

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agscotskiwi (44) · 7 years ago

I totally agree with the bad etiquette thing. There's nothing more demoralizing than taking the time to read someone's content, give them a comment (not 'good job' etc.) To have them reply 'thanks' then up vote that reply and get $1 but not up vote the minnow who gave the comment and bothered to read their post! I do realise however that some posters need to recharge their voting power and will delay in up voting comments, but some people are just plain rude

whatsup (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

I appreciate you taking part in the conversation. If you only have so many votes a day, it can be hard to figure out how to use them.

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eqko (61) · 7 years ago

OMG I totally hate it when they do that, also even if they don't selfvote, I always get a number of replies, that have not voted on my post. I always upvote any post that I respond to.

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whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

Nice self-voting. Good job. You also showed POR.

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xyzashu (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

Well, but I don't understand the discrimination being made between a post and a comment. Why! Some of my comments are much detailed and analytical than many posts. Why shouldn't they deserve better than posts?

I find it good that Steemit platform don't distinguish between a post and a comment and reflect both in the total post count. Why should we discriminate them while voting? Voting should always be done on the merit of content. If POR is necessary then there should be another feature for it. But Voting shouldn't be used as "POR" ...as you call it.

BTW is this post in retaliation to @stellabelle's recent post? 😜

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whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

If you look at my blog, I have been covering the topic. I was going to give it a rest until I saw @steelabelle s post.

To be clear, I think she is a great Steemian, who has engaged really well with the platform and is someone I respect and enjoy greatly. I think she can handle a bit of debate.

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xyzashu (75) · 7 years ago

Sorry, I missed those posts! Will check them later, for sure. I agree that this whole point is quite confusing. And both sides have some good arguments.

P.S.:
I didn't mean to comment anything on @stellabelle per se. What I was thinking is that there are several occasions when I get a lot many ideas for posts while reading through comments but I never make one. It takes me a hell lot of time to create a post. I was really impressed with the alacrity with which you did this job. I was just confirming that. It also shows how close this issue is to your heart. I'm really inspired by your speed. Thank you!

markush (62) · 7 years ago

Many users are not and shouldn't be trying to be content creators. I want to give them a reason to stay. I want them to make meaningful comments and further engagement.

amen

I been saying this for a while now. The mass is not a proper writer. and thats cool, or else the writers have no readers:)

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whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

Exactly and when there is no longer any reason to hold steem power, who will vote then? There are a handful of people making a dumb mistake by trying to earn with zero effort.

Due to the wrong focus of the "End self-voting" campaign, I find very little reason to hold steempower

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gindor (52) · 7 years ago (edited)

We have to build this thing together. Being motivated and not losing the motivation Are very important Parts of steemit otherwise their would not be anything here.

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akrid (62) · 7 years ago

You're right, self voting is not a bad thing. I have used it when I thought my comment should get more visibility, closer to the top of the page.
However, I believe that this feature- as every good thing in life- should be used in moderation.
It's my firm belief that everyone should contribute($value) as much to the community as they do to themselves. I don't see this unique model working, or succeeding if the majority of people only reward themselves exactly what their stake allows.
It's my opinion that the economy, quality and environment depend heavily on the greater community behaving in a way that allows the platform to grow.
If rampant "abuse" is encouraged, it will soon drive legitimate creators and curators away from the platform. Investors will see lower ROI and move somewhere else. New people will have an almost impossible barrier to entry and the quality will tank as the spamfest grows out of control.
I truly hope this isn't the ultimate fate of steemit, but we can already see the signs.

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whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

My feelings may change, but with everyone focusing on everyone else and writing posts about what everyone else is doing, I am bored for the first time in a 11-months and 2 weeks. I see no reason to continue to hold SP which has nothing to do with self-voting it has to do with I am not benefiting from holding it.

If I want to donate to a charity there are more meaningful ways to do it than to hang out on steem and upvote posts.

My investment was in the future of Steem and growing my own account. If I can't use the account for anything beneficial, I see no point in investing.

akrid (62) · 7 years ago

I'm sorry to hear that you're bored by hearing about so many people complaining. I don't think there would be such a wide consensus if there was truly no issue to see.
Was self voting the only reason you chose to power up and hold in the first place?
I don't consider voting on other people as charity. I consider it a way to thank them for their efforts and show they that the content is valuable to me.
I learn from them, befriend them, and gain value along side them as they also reward me for the value I provide. I believe this is exactly the kind of relationship the world needs.
I'm confused why you feel this way at the same time as giving so much to people while encouraging post interaction. It's clear that you truly believe in the success of the community. Why do you think you aren't allowed to reward yourself and be rewarded by others at the same time?
Yesterday I was moved by your initiative and thought your post deserved much more than the .10 I am able to provide with my stake. Luckily I was able to utilize whaleshares to give you a %100 vote from officialfuzzy because I truly believe that your actions are worth every bit of the rewards.
I hope you will come to enjoy your time here once again, don't lose faith in the platform, I'll never lose faith in you.

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whatsup (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

No, if you look at my voting history I very rarely upvote myself. That is not the point at all. The point is the content.

Hey I wondered how officialfuzzy voted for me, and thank you very much for that!

My problem with seeing the value of the future of steemit has to do with how many ways we are discouraging engagement.

your posts are not quality
your comments hold no value
you only get x number of votes a day
no upgrades to the platform
no communication from SteemIt.
A rabid steemit community who make as many posts about spam as there is spam on the blockchain.

This is no way to grow a community that is going to impact the price of steem. Maybe I am just in a bad mood.

I was investing in the future of steem, and I am not saying I wouldn't hold steem, I am saying I don't see any point in powering up my account. I would rather hold liquid steem. What is the value of tying up my investment in Steem Power?

akrid (62) · 7 years ago

I truly didn't think that was the case, but I was confused by your statement haha.

It's true that there are a number of things that could be improved upon. Creating a discussion and exploring the issues/options is an important step in the process of repairing the mechanisms. Whether or not the people who can do something about it take notice is entirely up to them.

I understand where you are coming from. You surely didn't feel the same way when steem was priced at .20 each. What has changed since then?

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7 votes

whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

Watching the reaction when we get new-users. My view is that we gain value to the Steem Currency when we get new users and new eyes on the platform.

Eyes = Investors.

There is just too many people worried about pennies while quarters and dollars are dropping out of our reach.

When the price was .20 cents I could dream of what my SP was going to mean to me.

I have a decent sized account, and I don't see how that is a better value than investing and trading. Again, I am not talking about selling all of my steem. I just don't know why I would keep it locked up in SP.

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akrid (62) · 7 years ago

Thank you so much for the randowhale. I appreciate it, as well as your upvotes!

It's true that some new users have negative reactions. I wish I could help them with whatever the problem is, but I understand that their fear of something so new will resolve if they only clear their mind and give it a real chance.

This reminds me of a line I once heard in a song. "How can I make sense(cents) when I got millions on my mind?"

To me, locking up a portion of your stake means that you can influence the big picture with it. I can reward the type of behavior I support and encourage. I vote for the witnesses whom I believe to truly want what's best for the future of steemit. I flag things that I don't feel are acceptable.

Some people have decided to turn their stake into an even greater source of income. (randowhale, booster, OCD, whaleshares, etc.

You've had 11.5 months to dream about this day. What have you come up with?

randowhale (67) · 7 years ago

This post received a 3.0% upvote from @randowhale thanks to @whatsup! For more information, click here!

gduran (69) · 7 years ago (edited)

No self voting comments is too abused, @tremendospercy is right there are a bunch of people who comment your post, up vote themselves (and hefty sums 5-to-10 dollars) and don't even up vote your posts. I seriously think self up voting comments should be eliminated. As for POR they can read your post, make a related comment and still up vote themselves, and in that case you would say it is ok? POR is proof of nothing when it comes to up voting yourself.

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whatsup (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

I've been here for 11.5 months, posting, reading commenting and engaging. I have bought and earned every once of Steem Power in my account.

Not everyone is a content creator and engaging in the comments is a good thing.

The focus of this effort is wrong, and I no longer see any point in building my account.

We will see how everyone likes it when nobody is holding Steem Power, there will be nobody left to vote on those
"posts".

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abso (52) · 7 years ago

The more you write on these topics, the more I have to agree with you. This Proof Of Reading concept is a great way to go at this and I will follow the idea behind this as much as I can. Big up on this on sir!

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tzap90 (56) · 7 years ago

is there a new update coming/ I have read at least 5 articles about upvoting today? did I missed something?

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5 votes

whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

I think those who are writing about it have the best intentions, but I think it is misguided. It is a fad thing. Topics matter on SteemIt.

akrid (62) · 7 years ago

Fake news hehehe

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satfit (54) · 7 years ago

@whatsup self voting is a nessecity for those who dont havemuch followers or not good at writing like me everyone here on steemit is for rewards and we have to get it some way #upvote

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6 votes

jackpot (57) · 7 years ago

I personally felt that before you even upvote, you should take the time and effort to read the article. Also when you comment please upvote. Have seen many comments but did not upvote the author. If the topic is interesting, contain informative value and if the photos are memorable to you, then you should communicate. If a photo brings back good memories and you appreciate the author for posting. My reply is to share my personal experience and when I was looking forward to a reply or chat, nothing comes back. So this means either my reply/comment is not read or not important, maybe I am sensitive. As you can see from my blog, I rarely vote without a comment. I do want to interact, but a lot of them are not responding. I do get votes but no comment if they like my post, or feel related to it or their views and perceptions on what I wrote. In conclusion, I think they did not read. Sad as authors do take time and efforts to write.
Appreciate your sharing.
@jackpot

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whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

I tend to agree we have too many non-reading voters. In some cases with minnows they have a limited number of votes, so I don't mind them not voting and still making a comment.

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theblindsquirl (57) · 7 years ago

Your post is actually the first I can recall that actually uses the term 'Proof of Reading."

My beef is with the comment spammers, i.e. "nice work, follow me" on 25 posts, the comment spamming bots and the circle jerks upvoting shitty content, like a selfie taken while on my way to drop off a bounce house.

The spammers, I've taken to reporting to steemcleaners and the circle jerkers get muted, or at least ignored.

I've stopped self voting anything, I simply don't have the VP (I don't know if I'll start again once I've got the slider, I've learned not to use the word "never").

I think you're correct, the key is engagement.

And I try to encourage those who I feel are actually putting in the effort to create quality content, whether it's a post or a comment. Sometimes even an amusing meme.

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5 votes

whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

I am trying to get people to use, talk about and invest in those who are really using the site. I think I coined the term - POR.

I think the focus on self-voting has good intentions, but is misguided.

theblindsquirl (57) · 7 years ago

Spreading the concept of quality over quantity to the masses is always the difficult part of growth.

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anomiej (45) · 7 years ago (edited)

I feel like there has to be some middle ground here. If you're engaging, commenting, etc. but you still only upvote yourself, I feel like it's kind of hypocritical. On the other side if you upvote other people's comments and posts that you feel deserve the reward, then upvoting yourself seems perfectly fine and I totally agree with you @whatsup

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gamer00 (67) · 7 years ago (edited)

Couldn't agree more. I am positive that by voting up on other people I basically earn the right to vote myself from time to time, even when I'm not actually doing it. I just like the idea that I can do that without repercussions if I want to.

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eternalsunshine (51) · 7 years ago

Absolutely agree too. People self voting at least spend time here to create comments or post. So why does it look so bad for some ?
For me, finger pointing (at self voters or even at anything else) is much more destructive than self voting.

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ionlysaymeep (50) · 7 years ago

meep

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nepd (66) · 7 years ago

POR is an interesting concept. I'm always tempted to flag throwaway comments that clearly show that the commenter did not read the post.

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6 votes

https://steemit.com/sports/@nepd/2017-wimbledon-contest-results-50-sbd-whaleshares-and-iconchout-apparel-up-for-grabs

anomiej (45) · 7 years ago (edited)

~~Oh, Hi there, person who made a contest and lied and didn't distribute the rewards to 2 of the 3 winners!~~

Edit: OK it was probably a honest mistake, we figured it out with @nepd

nepd (66) · 7 years ago (edited)

What?? What haven't you received? Did you provide BTS username and contact info for @sevinwilson?

Find me on discord @nepd and let's hash this out. I was under the impression that VirtualGrowth and myself had paid everyone out.

anomiej (45) · 7 years ago (edited)

in this comment i said you could give the BTS to choboscientist (winner of the contest) and that I'd gladly take the SBD.

Sorry for being so aggressive about it but I tried contacting you twice (second time was a comment on one of your posts) with no avail. I kind of let it go, but seeign your comment next to mine kinda irked me. Maybe I shouldn't have said you lied, could simply be a honest mistake.

nepd (66) · 7 years ago (edited)

It was very aggressive and off-putting but I want to make it right. Did you not receive the SBD? Bek and Choboscientist have both been paid.

Edit: I'll just send you $6 SBD (instead of 5) regardless. If you have ever have trouble with me... just contact me rather than calling me out.

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anomiej (45) · 7 years ago (edited)

Sorry about that. As I said, I did try to contact you on your posts to no avail. At the time I wasn't even aware of steem chat (well, I knew about it but didn't go on it and didn't know you could use it for personal messages), definitely would've used that if I knew! And I definitely will in the future!

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markush (62) · 7 years ago

And what holding you back if i may ask?

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nepd (66) · 7 years ago

I'm really not sure.

dexter-k (67) · 7 years ago

So glad to see someone with some influence posting openly about this. I agree with the negatives that self upvoting spam/meaningless comments purely for profit is a bad thing for this platform, but I absolutely hate the proselytizers who rant on about how upvoting your own post is the worst thing you can do. I upvote most comments that people make on my posts, and have been doing so for quite a while, because I want to encourage new users and minnows to see that there is benefit to being here. Really glad you are writing these articles @whatsup!

brothermic (68) · 7 years ago

I do alot of curating post if I like the post and I make a comment most of the time. However i dare to upvote a few comments of myself sometimes if I am sitting on to much votingpower and need to go to work or elsewhere to always use the full potentiel of my votingpower. I think people can do with their power what they want. Also if you want your comment to reach a higher place and potentially reach more people reading it why not. After all you paid for the influence you have with that or earned it. Steemit is all about having influence.

coldsteem (65) · 7 years ago

I agree. I like to see comments that indicate someone actually read the post. They are more engaging than just an upvote. It adds more of a social networking aspect to this site that doesn't foment much networking outside of that and "follows."

trendo (58) · 7 years ago

I see everyone has different opinions about self-voting. I don't think self-voting is very bad and it's OK to do it if you're not doing it all the time and vote for others as well.

thecryptotrader (63) · 7 years ago

You have a good point, but it is not hard to make a comment without reading the post.
higher upvote on comments instead of the post.. don't agree too much.

whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

I think you missed the POR part. Only comments that prove they have read the post.

thecryptotrader (63) · 7 years ago

yes, and it is not difficult to let you know that they read the post :)

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steevc (73) · 7 years ago

I vote up comments that add to the conversation. I'll check some generic comments to see if that's all that person writes. If they write the same every time then they are likely to get flagged as they add nothing. The self-voting I object to is where their post or comment added nothing to the value of Steemit.

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goldgoatsnguns (60) · 7 years ago

Absolutely. I want people commenting on my posts, engaged and committed. I am happy to reward them. As a blogger, I want to hold most of my voting power for the people reading, upvoting, resteeming and supporting my work. If they comment they give me the opportunity to support them.

Win/Win. Isn't that what the platform is supposed to be for?

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5 votes

whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

absolutely! Win/win

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whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

I am in total argeement.

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pandorasbox (59) · 7 years ago

I think they should probably disable the feature, and possibly even lessen the amount of votes that you can give out. Right now the biggest problem I see for Steemit is the large part of fake postings/comments which are only there to try and make a quick buck. While making a buck is of course part of the system, it should be rather a side-effect instead of the main purpose... In the long run, nobody wants a fake social media platform..

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steemitboard (66) · 7 years ago

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You published a post every day of the week

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dlina-v-metrah (57) · 7 years ago

In my opinion, writing is easier than commenting on your posts. But few people vote for posts, everyone is too lazy to read: (And for the comments, at least the author of the post, to which I answer, votes.

eqko (61) · 7 years ago

I did not know about you, but you were so kind as to offer 10 SBD to the winner of pixel art weekly, which, in this case was me (thank you for that, much appreciated). The least I could do was show you the curtesy of showing up on your side and see what you're all about.

The first thing I read is this post. Much interesting read and I think I agree. Why would you NOT self-vote when you're taking time and effort to formulate well thought out comments. Why should I only vote on others posts while they won't even vote on mine ... Good comments do help the platform in regards of engaging others. PoR for the win ;)

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whatsup (75) · 7 years ago

I am still so very impressed with your contraption. :) I bet you just love my "art". lol

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eqko (61) · 7 years ago

I love any art that comes from the heart 😉. No matter the actual quality, which is subject to taste anyways.
Maybe you should have a go at pixelart. it's the smallest artform and pushes you to think about each pixel you place and how that relates to what you want to show.

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fishmon (57) · 7 years ago

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turpsy (62) · 7 years ago

i also try to upvote comments of people on my post or a post that i am interested. As this shows how they comprehend or decipher the message in a post. If we reward comments in a way of upvoting, then we automatically reward the time they spent on our post.

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yaan (59) · 7 years ago (edited)

Voice of Freedom boyzzzz!!

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blazing (70) · 7 years ago

Earlier too i commented but you never replied

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lightrhythm (51) · 7 years ago

I'm for anything that encourages quality content.

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djunmul (48) · 7 years ago

I agree with you @whatsup, and that's what I'm trying to do since joining steemit. I'm trying to find new people and friends who make helpful posts for me to comment on. That's why I can interact with many people. Because building relationships is more important than anything.

My principle is simple, the world will restore whatever we throw. Others are a reflection of ourselves.

When I am nice, others will be good too. Many people who just provide upvote and resteem, without reading the contents of the post first. Whereas in the rules of use of steemit is very clear. Upvote and resteem just for posting that we think is really worth.

Maintaining an existing relationship is no easier than building a new relationship.

Hopefully steemit can create a respectful human life order, though not meeting each other in the real world.

Greetings.
@djunmul

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aryan12o (42) · 7 years ago (edited)

Your point is absolutely valid...Nice Job !!

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