I agree, downvoting is part of the system as well when there's a disagreement on rewards distribution. Many people get too upset about downvoting, but I do see it being used as actual abuse (i.e. harming an individual by purposefully waiting for the last 12 hour window so no other upvotes can impact the payout and then downvoting it to nothing because of personal feelings about the individual with nothing to do with the content itself which the network already voted on and decided to pay out).
And yes, some people will always agree when it comes to "I want that person to make less so I can make more." That doesn't always mean their position is the most rationally defensible one.
This post is intended to bring conversation with the community.
But you're calling out an individual. Have you discussed this with @crypto-p to get their side of the story?
Either way, I do think it's a good discussion to have. I do sometimes upvote my comments, but I do so rarely. I did in this case at 1% because I wanted my comment to be at the top of the list. To me, that influence is motivation to stay powered up (in almost a year, I've never powered down).
Yes, I warned him that I would start to flag him. He then threw a hissy fit, as expected.
But how is flagging then sometimes abuse in your opinion, if voting is just the right of a stakeholder? Both are just voting, done for arbitrary reasons.
But that's not even the point, for crying out loud.
The point is in the post: is this what we want Steemit to be? A joke of a platform where people spam shit like "good post" without even reading, just to self upvote?
A platform that looks like a joke that people are embarrassed to show to other people outside of Steemit?
Well, I guess that's not really a problem because people don't want other people here; they don't want other people interfering with their cash cow. The success of Steemit is irrelevant, as long the blockchain can be milked for easy bucks.
Who cares, right?
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
I've written about this in detail here, if you're interested to know my views.
Many people care. Very deeply, in fact. Steemit isn't perfect and certainly has many challenges to overcome. This is part of being a community and working through those challenges together, hopefully in a respectful manner.
Steemit is what we make it to be.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
All due respect mate , but are you aware that the copy and pasting of other people's comments back to them is..like..really obnoxious ?
just saying. thought maybe no one had told you is all : o)
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
I've been here a year and have posted/commented over 6,000 times. No one has ever mentioned it being obnoxious at all. On the contrary, I think it's extremely helpful to ensure clarity in communication. One of the biggest breakdowns is when people respond to something the other person hasn't said or don't clarify which part they are responding to.
With all due respect, please acknowledge what bothers you personally may not bother others at all and since you joined less than a month ago, your perspective may not be as broad as it could be.
That said, I appreciate your intentions, trying to help me. I disagree with you because I think clarity of communication is really important. Quoting someone else, to me, is respectfully showing them you directly read what they said and have a specific point to make about it.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
ok.. yep I see what your saying, however as i'm pretty old and have been interacting with people a very long time , the amount of time I have been on steemit is quite irrelevant. Wheather some one else has acknowledged this habit of yours, or not, is also relevant. As you're probably quite aware few people actually speak their mind on steemit for fear of not receiving an upvote, or even worse a 100% minus vote, I however am not. To increase clarity is indeed a noble endeavor, on that I will agree, but as I work on assisting people with methods of interaction, i find it far more important , to respectfully point out a flaw, because it facilitates clarity.
I feel i should inform you that it can be construed as obnoxious . If there is one, there are always others, just a law of nature. I take no offence, nor do I make judgement, both have no value to me, but as your clearly an intelligent person, with a great deal of knowledge to share, I decided to help you, so that you would not alienate those whom you seek to enlighten , by appearing to be obnoxious .
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
But you do make a judgement. You've judged my actions as generally accepted to be obnoxious.
I disagree about few people speaking their minds here on Steemit. In my experience, more intelligent mind-speaking happens here than most anywhere else on the Internet. Are there some who flag people they disagree with? Sure, but they are a small minority.
To me, clarity is incredibly important. If that's obnoxious to some people, what's the alternative?
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
So after pointing out to you that repeating back to a person, their own comment can be construed as being obnoxious , you chose to do it again. hmm now that has a hint of hostility about it.
Well ..no..mate. I didn't say anything about "generally", and it's not judgement to point it out a flaw brother.
As I agreed with you, clarity is important, however, is it not just as important, if not more, to assist in proving tools and methods to create opinions/information that are clear to start with ?
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Do you see the judgement within your claim of it being a "flaw"? What you see as a flaw, I think everyone should do more of because clarity of communication is really important.
When you have a conversation or debate with someone, do you think it's important to restate what you heard them say when responding to ensure you heard them correctly and you're fully including their perspective in your response? I think that's really important both offline and online.
I'm not purposefully being hostile. I'm doing what I rationally think to be a good communication practice.
You quoted "generally" which is what I said. That helps us clarify the conversation. If you were not saying "The action of quoting what people say back to them is generally accepted as obnoxious" then what's the alternative? Is it more "As an individual, I personally feel it's obnoxious to quote someone when responding to them"? To me, this is a matter of preference, not a flaw. Just as you felt the need to quote the word "generally", I feel the need to quote what others say to ensure I understand them correctly and communication is clear.
This conversation highlights the challenges with so many value judgements. We all do it. We make a judgement about something being good or bad, being a virtue or a flaw. At times we take it further and point it out to help someone else. I think there's value in recognizing someone may have very rational reasons for their actions and our own perspectives don't fit in the right and wrong category but is really just a subjective preference.
If someone chooses to engage with me, I communicate in ways I think are the most clear. The conversations I enjoy the most are ones where I know I'm being heard and the other person knows I've heard them. Quoting and responding to individual statements is the best way I know to do that in text format.
So we disagree on communication tactics and styes but you think my actions are flawed. Can you concede some may actually prefer my approach which would make it not a flaw for them at all?
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
My point exactly.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
I don't agree with you, any system should be fair and if it has bugs like these the just need to be fixed. I know this might sound like a bone-headed comment but stuff needs to be simple.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Please define "fair" in this context using my mining rig analogy. Is it "fair" to get a return on one's investment? I think it's arbitrary to say self-voting of posts is fine by comments is not. Or maybe it comes down to frequency? I think it's not clearly a "bug" as much as a community expectation which is still fuzzy and being figured out.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Yes I'd make a distinction between people who buy their influence and those who earn it. Isn't that what we are fighting banks for? Money for nothing?
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Now we're getting philosophical. :)
What if they buy influence using money they worked very, very hard to earn? Why should only authors and curators have rights around here? Why not investors as well? Remember, investors are the ones who give every STEEM and SBD tradable value at all.
Banks are entirely different (IMO) because they do create money out of nothing without restrictions. The blockchain money rules for creation are known to all. I'm fighting banks because they deeply corrupt and lead to violence and war around the world. The history of central banking shows this to be true.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Very valid points. I have been thinking about this for a long time. I wouldn't allow people to buy influence. You can't be sure how they got that fake money. It could be debt making real money in Steemit :)
If I trade fiat for steem, fiat loses value and steem gains right?
You know what? I'd treat outside investment and earned steempower differently. Let me be the judge of what I want to see. If I want to be appreciated then from people who know what they are talking about. Isn't this all about that?
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
You see, you could allow outside money to be promoted but not affect curation.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
I think it's rather subjective and not something any centralized system can or should police or regulate. What if someone invested crypto (BTC they earned providing value to someone else, as an example) into Steemit? There's no way to know.
To me, it's a waste of time to put value judgements on how other people earn their stores of value and what currency they currently store it in. If they violate the NAP or some other moral framework most can agree on, then sure, but that's separate from the concept of money, IMO.
That said, Steemit has posting rewards right there on the blockchain, so you're free to value you things however you want. :)
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
Thanks for you thorough comments, I appreciate them.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
They take time and effort, but don't get much rewards. Is that a "bug"? Hehehe.
Thank you also. I love great conversations on Steemit. :)
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
No it's a feature which is behaving badly ;)
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit