Right now we have 1,723,060 STEEM in the RewardPool Worth $2,151,495 on Poloniex. Motivation to design a new type of rewardpool-rape system you say? I think so too. In this video I explain why I am against WhaleShares, why I think it is a bad idea for steem, why we should not support such a thing where a third party game the system as middlemen and... well, watch the video and see if you agree with me or not.
Yeah, it's literally vote-buying. I'm not sure how this is supposed to improve anything. And I imagine that the people who need the votes the most won't be able to buy them anyway.
Agree with both of you. I would consider myself to be in the Steemit "middle class" so I bought a few shares to see what the fuss was all about. The conversion rate at the time was roughly 1 BTS/WHALESHARE. Essentially it boils down to 1 BTS/1% of upvote. To me it definitely wasn't worth it even for those who can afford it. The cost-benefit ratio just isn't there.
Why even have steempower if people can just rent the use other peoples steempower?
There are systems that we build on top of steem that benefit steemit, and there are systems people build within steem to game the system. Lets be constructive and aim to add value rather than reap value. Best.
I thought about that too... What if i don't have enough tokens to buy the votes?... People with more tokens gets more upvotes and more money to buy more tokens... Capitalism all over again lol
If the devs still haven't fixed the fundamental problems in the past year, you can expect initiatives like this. If the devs aren't doing anything, someone has to. For fuck sakes @ned, fix the algorithms so everyone is treated fairy on SteemIt and people can ACTUALLY curate and get rewarded and rated properly.
@ned but linear rewards is only a very small step in the right direction, unless i'm misunderstanding the article. It's of course still better than it is now so that's good! Anyway, the rewards are only 1 of a few other basic problems with the algorithms. They all need to be tweaked so they all work together, right now content isn't curated properly, people don't get penalized for curating improperly (upvoting bad content, downvoting good content and sheep behavior for example), the reputation system is just a popularity system and it makes very little sense to allow voting from the first second of publication without giving the curators the opportunity to read the content at their own speed.
great concerns Calamus! I'm with you. One question though, how exactly would one "penalize for curating improperly"...seems like it would be a tricky thing to implement. If you upvote someone that doesn't reach a certain threshold of additional upvotes, then it's judged to be 'bad content'?
If upvotes are the mechanism through which we can algorithmically judge the 'quality' of content, how does one measure good or bad quality in any other way? Seems like a good problem to me. Also... I think there's a real question at hand here...If there is value in upvotes, how can we possibly prevent people from acting as dollar maximizers? I'm not sure we can. Ultimately, we all have some aspect of power from our own votes and words...
Thanks for the updates @ned - many are hysterical on here but fail to realise we are still in Beta mode. I myself have probed the underbelly of Steemit today in my Daily Dose, but that is the role of philosophy: to destroy our idols. Not in they way you might think, but to make us stronger in the long term so our Alpha game is never found lacking!! ... Steady as she goes @ned ... blue skies ahead :)
I'm just a minnow, a content creator coming from YT and FB in May, and Abit is downvoting my content. What's the point of that? He says its just business and no hard feelings. WHAT?? Most of my followers are not whales! It ruins my ambition.
@mericanhomestead i think @abit is doing an experiment where he downvotes other whales that blindly vote for content or something. So it doesn't mean your content isn't good, it's just a statement. I don't know the exact details but i believe he posted about it a few months ago.
P.S.: you already had a following before you came on SteemIt, imagine how 99% of the SteemIt users feel when they work hard and never earn more than $0.10 for hours of hard work. Most people have it way worse than you even.
Lol there's only 1 CEO. But that reminds me of the roadmap they released, i think they said they will probably allow us to vote on changing blockchain settings and such, that will be cool.
hahaha, that is where it becomes obvious that you have not learned enough yet! You look at concepts, vision more than outright words! roadmap is theory! There principles and concepts. In my eyes, you are a whale even! Depends on how you see yourself. In reality, there are no titles. You have small bank or steemit wallet, you have a reputable community of great minds, and a ton of information, plus a blockchain, what esle do you need to start your own company or empire? we are on fyrstikken post and oh see how he has built his own, and if one doesn't have the means to money-wise but you have a vision, you can team up with likeminded people and create a movement aligned with a vision! Hahahaha, you are a ceo on steemit! with time, you will see this!
Of course i look at concepts, i'm a programmer, that's what interests me, creating complex revolutionary systems. I'm less interested in money, marketing and such.
@johalfiles There are times when I wish I could go back in time and buy a ton of steem. Now, Im simply powering up as much as possible with the payouts on my articles. Curation rewards are pretty decent and its good to remain powered up. I've been buying steem at nearly every lows since being hospitalized during the dumps I missed the chance. Hoping the price doesnt rise quickly so there's ample time for greater steem distribution.
Yeah i understand. Maybe we first need millions of users and much more liquidity before we can come to any reasonable conclusion, but right now it feels like content creators are way too dependent on large SP holders.
As the price of steem rises though the distribution gets worse. As a net percentage it won't change just due to price, but the amount of fiat that separates the 1% of people that own 90% of steem will make it harder to level that playing field.
Huh? Now that is good info. I'm new to all this and little bits here and there such as this are "GOLDEN". About SP being like hash power. Thanks "thejohalfiles
you have done great analysis, i am not sure whether whalshares and the other are harming steem but quite influenced by your thought. I need to research more on this. Thanks for the video
This is a complex subject and I'm not 100% for or against the project even though I have said of it that it's pure genius.
You might be right. It's difficult to foresee everything this project entails. I'm saying this honestly.
I think as with everything there are risks and benefit which people will have to evaluate.
Personally I don't think I would ever want to sell some of my votes because I wouldn't want my votes to appear on posts I don't support. I abhor the idea of seeing my name appear on a post that push ideals I oppose. I think this will be the case for most people. I also think this will become truer to everyone as Steem overall influence grows.
Also whales that sell their votes will have to evaluate the risk of losing some support if they engage in selling their votes, for the reasons mentioned above. If someone see a whale they know who's an anarchist beginning to vote on all sorts of posts that are anti-anarchist they will instantaneously understand this whale is selling their votes and might hesitate to support that Steemian in the future.
There's also the fact that bad authors who need to buy votes should in the long run become less influential compare to the authors who garner real consensus and so don't have to pay to create consensus or fake consensus.
"Assuming all individuals can communicate and have incentive to live in the truth then truth will prevail. If there is incentive to believe a lie, then the lie will prevail. This applies even on an individual basis." Dan Larimer
I think what you are saying it this post is a bit a kind to saying: "Hey! We have incentive to live in the truth and not selling our vote to the highest bidder. Let's vote for what is most important or the truest to us. The best placed person to cast the best vote for us and thus everyone around us is ourselves, not the highest bidder in term of $." I tend to agree on that.
In the long run, Whaleshare or not, I tend to think most people will vote for themselves, for what is best for them.
I tried to clarify some of my stance on this project and I look forward to some more discussion on it.
We don't see most of the posts so we can only vote for the posts we see, obviously.
Most of the post or authors I vote for don't mention money and that's something I don't understand. If we are to be true, we need to acknowledge the place of money in our life and in our society and its impact. The very life of all people on Earth is subservient to money so rationally we should give this topic the place it deserves.
People are literally starving to death over the lack of it. We can't ignore those facts. People need to be talking about money creation and wealth concentration, these aren't just some subjects we should talk from time to time.
I don't see people addressing these subject the way they need to be. This is the case for a lot of subjects.
A lot of the posts and authors I support right now are people that support me back so that I can become a more influential Steemian. Being a more influential Steemian helps our posts to get more visibility. That being said I never hesitate to vote for someone who doesn't support me but whose post is the truest.
I believe that the reason people are starving around the world is that people with money have bought 'votes' and are now deciding what according to them is best.
They think that it doesn't matter what happens to all those people starving - they go about their lives and build more weapons and start wars to make sure that they always remain in power.
To remain in power these same people 'rig' the voting system and buy the votes and the whole circle starts all over again.
That is why you have 1% of the people owning 99% of the world's wealth.
If the votes are being sold and bought here on Steem - then it's the same scenario repeating itself.
In the real world, it's difficult to get rid of such politicians - I hope this is not the case on Steem.
Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and all other Social networks will eventually perish because of this very reason, they want to make money at other people's expense - as is happening with @mericanhomestead.
Steem may be the first one of it's kind - but remember Facebook came after MySpace.
At the same time I think those who will pay for vote on Steem should make less profit in the long run than those who don't have to pay for vote but are creating genuine consensus.
Yes we have to identify such people by analyzing and we have to make some group who stand for the protection of steem. Our comment will be a symbol of a good post or so.. but its not a very good idea .. need some good suggestions.
You downvoted my post. I did just the design. You know very well that I enter almost every design contest here in Steemit. It's my job and opportunity to get involved. Imagine if you were getting downvoted for inviting people that some other whales disagree.
You are a whale with half a million power. How could you possibly downvote a design initiative when you know very well I have nothing to do with anything else? At least wait to see how this thing will turn out. It's very hard for people like me to build rep just to see it go away because you decided to measure dicks with another whale.
What politics? I am a designer. I enter EVERY competition. You know that very well since I got involved with the RobinHood Whale initiative. Why you hurt people that just get involved with the community when you know how hard it is for people like me?
Dude I remember you just some months ago, whining and moaning about the unfair downvotes you were getting. I even supported some of your posts in good heart. You came into a position of power and you do the same shit with the same exact excuse?
This is not a professional response from your part. This is an emotional outburst. Classic "small guy turn into asshole because of immediate power".
I don't agree with some of the points you make in other subjects @kyriacos, but this particular one I do... it's not right to penalize people caught in the cross-fire of two people disagreeing. It sets a bad precedent.
What I am hoping for, is for more discussion on the matter so they both can work out their differences if this is possible.
Cheers @fyrstikken. Just came across whaleshares and found your video so am very glad to see someone laying it out very simply. Thanks for trying to keep this place honest! It is surely a difficult task!
Thank you so much @fyrstikken for upvoting my comment. It is very much appreciated however I am very new here and not exactly the most up to date in terms of how the whole thing works but on intitial impressions I am uncomfortable with some of the things that are going on and I feel that there are a few at the top with all of the power just as in the real world. This troubles me. I don't know much about you other than what you have written in this post and speaking in your video but clearly you seem to have a bit of influence around here and whilst I appreciate that you may be using that power for good, the fact that you have this power is still an issue for me. I know that I am just a 'minnow' in this place but I feel that if I decide to become a member of a community such as steemit then I should have just as much say in how that community conducts itself as anyone else. I appreciate that some people have been here since the beginning which is why they have been able to gain so much power but the fact that they were here at the beginning gave them the opportunity to build their following before newer users and this should be reward enough I think. As far as those investing in the platfrom I understand that they do so to make a return on their investment but short term and long term investments require different stategies and a fairer, more equal voting and reward system to my mind would attract a steadier stream of new users and be a better long term strategy.
This comment is not given with the intention of recieving an upvote my friend , I am more concerned with the platform becoming a fair and level playing field for all and as a new member it is in my interest for steemit to grow also.
Perhaps my expectations are too high with so much profit to be made but this platform could be something really special i feel as long as we are willing to fight for it because if we do not it will surely go the same way as all of the rest that came before.
I have already joined via the link on your page but on arrival I was intinidated by how technical it looked. :) I had initially intended to respond to you there but changed my mind. I will try to work out how things work later and look forward to speaking to you in future.
Gaming the system has to stop. Whatever the agreed upon distribution is, and will be, is what we have to work with. I'm relatively new and I see the bloodthirsty greed of people demanding follows for follows, looking to get rich tomorrow.
This platform should look at new members as a country looks at legal immigration. Only a certain number per day per week per month. Otherwise the platform will be overrun and perverted by gold-seekers.
Fyrstikken is not problem , you know how much i respekt you . I will explayn why i like the project and if you disagree cool we all have a right to see the
things diferent:)
And at least that is 100% fair, and everyone can participate in it. Whaleshares will become something only people with money can participate in (poor people cannot afford whaleshares/paid upvotes)
I'm totally with you @fyrstikken
You are a great person for this community. I first listened to you in the latest talk with ned and I love your accent.
@fyrstikken thank you for bringing this matter up in the light
I hope teamsteem does take the right step in resolving this issue.
More power to you mate.
Beer is on me!!
Absolutely i saw your comment that is the reason i mentioned your name agai so that you get to know we have hopes from steem.
Here in india i am trying to get more people on this platform moreover we see the price of steem as cryptocurrency is growing on the charts and posts and things like these might make a setback for the investors and believers of steem.
Great insight on whaleshares. I would however assume, that any project built ontop of the steem blockchain would be beneficial for steem and if the project owners manage to profit off of that, then it shows that the project is successful.
One comment though, if the system puts motivations in place that allow people to game the system I think the problem is more with the system than those that are abusing it. I view the abusers more like "hackers". They are revealing weaknesses in the system, and so also opportunities to improve it.
Trevor, to this point I have been studying cryptocurrency aspect of steem and not really what the actual platform is about. I thought it was just sort of a replacement for facebook, twitter, etc... Is it really only for bloggers? Is that what I am hearing here?
I wont upvote "crappy" content - but you don´t need to pay me for an upvote if I find your article interesting. Imagine if everyone started charging everyone for upvotes, STEEM would be REKT. I don´t want that to happen. I love Steem, and I love the users and all the cool stuff I find here.
I want our platform to be as fair as possible, fairness is important for the integrity of steemit.com and all the other steem-powered websites and apps.
Well, that is something i don't understand about whaleshares, what happens if someone "pays" for getting their post voted but is a poor content post?... Are whales bound to vote anyway?
Look at the trending page. Then look at it again once every 6 hours and notice what users are on there. Then check your own feed if you follow users who never trend. Compare the quality of the posts and the amount of money they make. The trending posts are not shit, but they don't deserve more than a lot of posts that make only a few dollars. Yet the same users are trending all day every day, always have been.
Did the autovotes they get lead to empty posts making lots of money ...? No. Not exactly.
Whaleshares offers the vote of one whale. It isn't huge. Until whales have to start flagging empty posts due to votes from whaleshares tokens, I don't see this as a problem compared to the orca whales on the trending page who only vote for eachother.
Thanks for the insight @fyrstikken. As a newbie, this can be quite confusing as I get my head around things. Voting seems to be a political topic. I vote for articles I like and I learn something from.. at the moment some of these do certainly cover steem and crypto articles as I learn more, but equally travel, health food and photography articles I find interesting. I wondered about this program as a newbie, obviously we all like to see rewards, but also had a gut feeling it was not in the true spirit of Steem. Good to go with my instinct I think. I'll just continue to publish content that I am proud of and make meaningful connections with like minded people and any monetary rewards are a bonus :)
Thank you for your great analysis, information and for taking the time to figure all this out its very much appreciated. I dealt with vote bullying on my last post. I sucks big time. I was told it was to balance things out, I said at the time to balance what a $1.20 post at the time. @mindhunter told me you are awesome at this stuff. Thank you for this post. It made my night.
We definitely all need to band together, men and women that way nobody who wasn't involved in whatever disputes are going on doesn't get hit by the crossfire like I did today. Especially when I'm here to community build and everyone I have met has been nothing but nice to me and vice versa. I also have to follow one of my rules in life never take anything personal. I hear you@ battleaxe but anything can happen on steemit. Hopefully all the wrinkles get ironed out soon.
Agreed. Collateral damage and cross-fire isn't right. My guess is that @fyrstikken struck first as a demonstration of what could happen.
What he could have done, instead, is announce that he was "going" to do the downvoting.. before he did it... so we could have this same discussion without hurting people's earnings.
My suggestion might be to remove the downvotes until this is solved?
No it wasn't @fyrstikken he is actually a nice guy from what @mindhunter tells me and I trust mindhunter a lot. @fyrstikken never even voted on my latest post and nor does he have to. when It was others with bots who down voted me. I was told because someone with high SP up voted me and the bot these 2 ppl used did it to balance out a 1.20 post at the time. Thats what I meant by crossfire. You can look at the post and see who it was. Yes it would be nice if those 2 people could remove them until whatever problem was solved but like I said this is steemit anything can happen, its not fair and right my earnings have to hurt but I consider myself lucky to be a part of this community and I'm learning. I don't know if what I was told was even accurate but I have faith in the person who told me.
Thank you. But when you have no control over the situation and you are dealing with people with SP that can destroy you with one click or slide in this case! What can you do? I can still reach my destination by talking to them and finding out what happened exactly. I'm here for the long term and to make friends and community build. Plus, I don't get involved in other peoples business. As far as my situation I will talk to the 2 people tomorrow and see what and why this happened. @intelliguy #diplomacy :)
@fystikken you brought a valid point to the table indeed , but if we look into this those are valued weight for the system and each contribution will be promising to the network so its give and take , what do you think ?
It is my pleasure @abcdoctor. It has been very spiritually rewarding to watch the userbase and activity grow in here, and I can´t wait for all the new good stuff that will come to steem in the near future. Welcome to the Steem-Network :)
It seems ironic that I just finished watching a documentary called I AM about a Hollywood director (Tom Shadyac) who experiences a life-threatening head injury that makes him ask 2 questions:
What is wrong with this world?
What can we do about it?
Then I go to my computer and read this!
I encourage everyone to borrow the DVD from the library or find it somewhere else and watch it. I was telling the others in the room watching with me that what I so enjoyed about Steemit was that we were a community that valued sharing equitably. The documentary discloses what greed does to people and I would hate to see that happen here. This was our ticket to freedom from tyranny. Please don't destroy that.
On another note: buying those uia assets is going to become increasingly expensive. Bitshares (and Steem) is moving up -so spending your hard earned money on acquiring these third party tokens might be the most expensive upvotes you ever bought. Generally I would say do not buy anything you don't completely understand. By all means, I support bitshares and own it. The problem is the uia tokens that could be anything. Most of them can also be deleted if the issuer feels like it.
Heads up to fyrstikken for being outspoken and somewhat articulated 😊
Great post. It certainly opened my eyes to the potential negatives of WhaleShares. I honestly had not taken the time to consider them. I will need to think about this in more depth. Thank you.
I did not realise until after your video what whaleshares are. I'm against it. Feels like they are whoring out their power to influence the earnings of others while they sit back make a pretty penny. Do not want to offend anyone but this is not the route for steemit. Greed will break it down. Just like in any market or society. Greed always damages the ecosystem.
I am 100% with you on this retaliation and flagging . And, I personally feel reward pool program should also be stopped. Thanks for sharing your thoughts @fyrstikken
I think your project is designed to make you rich and I do not see how it would benefit anyone else. I have known you for about 1 year, and in that year I have noticed a change in you, allow me to say, I think money and power has gone to your head, @officialfuzzy, you are not the man you were a year ago and that reflects in what you say and what you do.
What exactly have you done for the minnows and steemit since you joined @officialfuzzy - I am curious how valuable you think you are, and how valuable you really are in terms of generosity.
Well said @fyrstikken - @officialfuzzy needs to look inwards here. Money makes a good slave, but a terrible master! The tone of his posts have changed towards allowing money to be his master since I first arrived here! Lets pray he changes his attitude and shapes up like his grandparents!!
P.S. #janitorsunited rule #2: If you don't have my back when I'm struggling for a cause, you can't be by my side when I eventually succeed. RESTEEMED :)
lol, So you could not list even ONE thing you have done for the steem community fuzzy, not even ONE. And you write to me like this, in a threatening manner?
Shame on you Fuzzy. Wrong way of pimping your whalesharescam. Now I know for sure that your intentions are far away from good.
Let me put it in clear text for you: I Care about the platform and our investments . I am against your whaleshares because they are designed to fill up your pockets on behalf of both customers and the rewardpool. I do not support the kind of corruption you are trying to onboard. I am against it.
With a simple script everyone can sell automatic upvotes, just send 100 steem to this account with memo upvote "url" and a script will do the job.(just as an example)
But You running around trying to game the system using a THIRD PARTY TOKEN to do it only tells me that not only are you incompetent in the steem universe, but you are also completely stuck in your faul way of thinking.
Dont take it personal, this is business - steem business.
no need for shady bitshares middlemen for that. Scammy, shady, selling tokens, fees ++++ all that and more - But good luck. Maybe you can fool someone around here, but you cannot fool me and I be damned if I were to just sit around and say nothing about it.
You should be ashamed of yourself fuzzy. Slap, Slap, Slap!
"...a simple script everyone can sell automatic upvotes, just send 100 steem to this account.."
interesting info !!!
Thanks for sharing
Have a nice sunday
I need to grab some popcorn. I think this gives other newbies who are writing killer post, and who are not being upvoted to take matters into their own hands. Its kinda like the having to pay to have your stuff "promoted".
I'm glad you posted this. When fuzzy put his idea about 'whaleshares' out there, I could see it benefiting the Bitshares platform but not the steemit. So I stayed out of this project. It doesn't look like a win/win for both sides. I was in on one of fuzzys secret meeting when steemit was just launch. So I'll start by pointing out a fact. People are going to try to game the Steemit system and no one can shame them to stop. What I learned about fuzzy in the last 3 years is that he is a gamer. I mean online videos games. He did states he was going to try to game Steemit in order to fix it. In other words, use the
skill he has to make steemit better by braking it. In the end if fuzzy can't game Steemit. Then beta testing is over. I could be wrong, just my 2 steem cents.
I do not agree that I have been rude to anybody. I have tried to defend myself from bullying, that's all.. it is called self defense according to the NAP.
Sorry fyrstikken, but you're buying steem to upvote. How is it any different if somebody uses these whaleshares, which once spent are gone - unlike steem where you can keep going forever?
Lol, You wanna buy some whale-votes, or do you want to earn real votes from your audience? Fake it until you make it? Pay the middle-man? So Sad.
Yes, I buy Steem - and I power some of them up, I wont sell votes - but I am willing to rent out some of my steempower on a legit open market. Then you can do with it what you want without dragging me into the dirt.
If you are so desperate that you need to buy whale upvotes, then I am sure there are whales that you can do that with directly already. However, I would suggest going legit, create great content, make it a good click-bait, marketing it like a boss and earn it.
Have you too been blinded by the dollar-signs so you cannot see straight?
What happen to that @beanz that was against corruption and for fairness and freedom, was that just a facade?
I've never bought a whale vote fyrstikken. I earned some tokens the same way most people earned steem - knowing the right people and supporting the shit they happen to like. This token simply allows me to vote for any posts just like steem power. It is the same as messaging @officialfuzzy in private, which as you know is how we've always had to do things, because we do not have any auto-voters. He supports whatever we post, even the memes, for whatever reason. Instead of giving us his voting key and saying "here, take as much as you want" he's giving out a token that limits the amount people can take. And he's giving them to the people he chooses to vote for just like you and every other whale does.
I am against corruption when I see it fyrtikken and the platform is riddled in it. Unfortunately you're not seeing how your steem power self upvotes are the exact same except there is a limited supply of votes we get from these tokens, unlike steem power.
People are not voting for our posts in order to get a return - and because of that it is not vote-buying like the simply bet sporting posts are. You can only compare it to the way steem buying is vote buying, but for now it's mostly community building and earning just like they do on steemspeak and the price channel and everywhere else where friends vote for friends.
I get it - you are on the "taker" side Great, at least I know why you are so biased. Now I pulled some data out of the SBDS just to see what Fuzzy has been doing since he joined steemit, let´s take a look - fangirl.:
How many votes has OfficialFuzzy given since he joined? 6,424 votes.
How many votes has fyrstikken given since I joined? 113,122 votes. WoW - Spreading the wealth, right?
But wait, there is more - Let´s take a look at how many unique accounts this minnow-loving whale votes for shall we?
OfficialFuzzy: 1,760
Fyrstikken: 10,943 BOOM!!
As you can see - he is just words and no action - NO ACTION!!
His track-record of making STEEM better is a non-existing one.
However, he gave plenty of space for MrWang to sell his $250 shitcoin on his BeyondStupid show until MrWang dumped all of them on the market for pennies. Great show of character making good people bagholders.
But nevermind @beanz - thanks for the information on how you get votes for your show. You are one of the few.
As long as it benefits you personally in the short term, you give two craps about steem in the long term, cuz you aint invested, you dont care.
As for biased, you might remember I was a "taker" of the steem guild too. After their payment system was revealed I asked to be removed from their list of accounts to support. When I see something wrong I don't want to be part of it and often thought about leaving steemit completely because of that.
I don't appreciate the circle jerks of friends voting within their circle constantly but I've come to accept that humans are human and everybody's an idiot. Everybody here votes emotionally even those I think are rational and then there is robotic voters which are just as idiotic, but hey, that's the system that's humans design by being human.
If you really care about user satisfaction (and I do believe you do - just targeting the wrong issue if you're in favour of self upvotes) then take action on what's trending every day within the first hour. That's where the system is being gamed - the same users "earning" through nepotism and becoming the next corrupt whales by never voting outside their circle of friends.
I think whaleshares is ok because it could potentially increase the value of steem power, plus I don't believe I have the authority over what people vote on (fair enough flagging bad quality posts/comments).
Is it not similar to promoting your post except instead of the currency going to the null account it goes to the whaleshares account?
Thank you for posting this @frystikken! After hearing about whaleshares, I myself tagged 2 of my posts with "the50" because I thought that I can receive more exposure. I got 20-25 upvotes on each of the posts but nobody cared to open and read them. These are empty, fake upvotes, which I don't need. I came to steemit to express my creativity, to discuss interesting topics and connect with other like-minded people. Whaleshares has nothing to do with this at the moment. I believe that with persistence (and a little bit of luck) I will be able to develop my blog, connect with such people, and maybe make some money.
Nicely said, @fyrstikken. There will always be people wanting to abuse the system, it's human nature. Let's hope such users are less than the others users, who are trying to have good content posted here.
You are right, this whaleshares thing smelled a bit fishy from the beginning but I had to see the video to fully understand that this could be very bad for Steemit. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for standing up for all the people that need folks like you to make a stand in a community that lots of us are new to, let alone a crypto currency system that many including myself are learning.
Now this certainly has negative impacts on the philosophy of the community, the philosophy being " good authors are appreciated and rewarded the best, but not those crappy leach".
You know @fyrstikken how much I respect you, you do upvote me for my good works because it's worthy not because I asked you.
And, this is how you say it
I wont upvote "crappy" content - but you don´t need to pay me for an upvote if I find your article interesting
this line really got my attention and is worth it
Now that I am not completely for or against the system, but I also don't like the idea about shit post earning money. You know I joined this community in march, and it's only been two months and I have got supports and benevolence. I enjoy this community because of the idea that we can share knowledge and idea to anyone with same interest and on the side get paid for it. Money isn't only a concern, the network and the community is. The community where good authors are appreciated and rewarded for their goodness :) This gives value to the community. @ned hi, you are the CEO of the community, which @surpassinggoogle says everyone is in terms of their vision and their belief, I couldn't agree more :)
However, if someone could get upvotes and thereby money because of tokens and not their work and goodness then that would definitely hurt the community. It will just mean for the money and for the play, the play being earning money.
I am not fully against the whaleshares token btw. I have also promoted it, but I do not tempt to support or go against this. It also has some pros on the side, it will hopefully rise the demand and thereby price of steem, and also some struggling users who haven't been getting much rewards that they deserve can actually earn money for them. That being said, it won't be a good idea to just upvote some crappy posts because of tokens. I believe there must be some guidelines and restrictions as to which post should be eligible for the upvotes. Anyway, that would bring a whole different scenario.
I love the community for the support and vision it has, the vision being helping each others.
Thank you for your time to read my opinion, and don't get me wrong, I am only a member of the community expressing myself :)
That you for your action, which clearly demonstrates your commitment to the health of Steemit, and for the clarity with which you articulate your case.
...And of course it will mean that unless the whales get those tokens they wont give you the upvotes. Kind of like payola in the music industry of old. Whales get kickbacks for their upvotes....hmmmmm
oh wow !! That is beautiful !! You are very talented , I love it ! Thanks for up voting one of posts , on the chat chanel ! Upped yours back !!
I will also resteem it so it gets more views , if you want to resteem this post for me !? Thanks , heres the link ! https://steemit.com/photography/@ahyenno/the-art-of-beaded-flower-violet
So from now, it will be useless to make good content, just make shit content buy votes and you will make money. This is a greate idea for making money but how can improve this Steemit. It will become a place where good content will be useless and also a flag vs votes battle.
I see points on both sides of the Whaleshares from @fyrstikeken & @officialfuzzy point of view which I think them and many others see and understand. Have been partially refraining from comment being a major supporter of both of their places in the community evident by their logos being shown and links to be both fun places to chat in their own respect.
Best wish we may all over forward with proper precaution that is being brought up by many in our wonderful community. Will be taking part in the whaleshares while also looking forward to precautions being thought about and being considered. Which I would like to say I have seen some communication towards these concerns within the whaleshares team effort.
Im with you all the way on this people need to work there way invest or become creative and give back to the community. This is why America is broke as fuck!
Also thanks for the support man!
I am only 8 days in. I plan on being here a long time so I was looking into these to gain early traction. Yesterday morning I invested into one of these operations. Not the one being referenced on this post. Then later that night, I took some time and created a post that got noticed from everyone, including you. (Which I thank you for) It made me regret the Steem I gave away earlier in the day. Yeah, it might help a little, but the lightbulb turned on. Creating really engaging and high quality content is the key. I finally got my first taste of that and I know what it takes going forward....just a few hours too late.
Thanks for sharing this. I just posted a blog about the power of ambassadors as i think we have something special going here and we need to promote that. But this whale buying does not fit in that picture if you ask me!
As you can see on the clusterfuck the Trending Page has become, there are plenty of ways to circle-jerk, game, collude, befriend, etc. your way to high pay-outs for sub-par posts.
Keep flagging it, I totally agree. Steemit needs to be a legit platform. I tell my viewers I will upvote their posts... but if they just post "thank you" every single time, I'm not upvoting that. They have to contribute.
There is zero reason people can't contribute when they post... blogging is not difficult people, just post quality content. Blogging is not a get rich quick scheme.
As soon as I saw the 'Whaleshare' secret invite, I knew it was anti-competitive and collusive behavior - the same as what is going on with the elites in the real world.
Part of the Steemit appeal is that it purports to be a fair and competitive platform where posters can make a bit of money for good content. If Steemit fails to live up to this - posters will simply leave and Steem will be worthless (as you say).
I am happy to read that I was not the only person with concerns about 'Whaleshares'.
@fyrstikken thanks for pointing this out. I still consider my self relatively new to Steemit (3 months) and still feeling my way around. I have seen these posts and the like a lot in my feed. I agree, good content should stand on its own merit. Thanks for regularly upvoting my random ramblings. (I notice) And thanks for looking out for the little guys. Upvoted, and Resteemed.
I understand them now! I can't believe people actually think this is a good idea. It just gives more reasons for upvoting random content, instead of good quality content.
So now trending can be filled with crap, just because some people bought their votes and whales can't be bothered to check for good content?
This won't be good for Steemit's overall quality at all...
Thank you for this warning post! As newbie, my goal is to post quality, what I try to do. So I can see people enjoying my work with the side-effect of a making a little money. That's why I love this place.
Thank you for bringing this to light @fyrstikken, I'm not a fan of vote buying either, and it's great to have a debate about these things. I'm a new guy here, but from what little I know about life and Steemit, nothing good ever happens by beating each other with a stick, in this case the downvoting. Please work it out guys and lets build something great together :)
Yeah, it's literally vote-buying. I'm not sure how this is supposed to improve anything. And I imagine that the people who need the votes the most won't be able to buy them anyway.
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exactly - man, you are so on point.
^ That right there - is wisdom
Thank you for a great great comment @ats-david, very welcomed!
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Agree with both of you. I would consider myself to be in the Steemit "middle class" so I bought a few shares to see what the fuss was all about. The conversion rate at the time was roughly 1 BTS/WHALESHARE. Essentially it boils down to 1 BTS/1% of upvote. To me it definitely wasn't worth it even for those who can afford it. The cost-benefit ratio just isn't there.
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food for thought.....paying for downvotes as well, I like you ats-david
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You like me? You really like me???
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lol
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More reasons besides upvoting for good quality. This isn't a good thing at all...
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Why even have steempower if people can just rent the use other peoples steempower?
There are systems that we build on top of steem that benefit steemit, and there are systems people build within steem to game the system. Lets be constructive and aim to add value rather than reap value. Best.
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I thought about that too... What if i don't have enough tokens to buy the votes?... People with more tokens gets more upvotes and more money to buy more tokens... Capitalism all over again lol
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The whole idea seems unorganized, unnecessarily complicated and undermines the integrity of the upvote system.
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thank you for even further explanation. cheers @ats-david
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Sounds like a pyramid scheme. And i see more initiatives like this .
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Yeah...notice that I said they got "scooped on the scam?"
What exactly is your point?
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If the devs still haven't fixed the fundamental problems in the past year, you can expect initiatives like this. If the devs aren't doing anything, someone has to. For fuck sakes @ned, fix the algorithms so everyone is treated fairy on SteemIt and people can ACTUALLY curate and get rewarded and rated properly.
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Steady as she goes
-HF 19 - Linear Post Allocation Curve - https://steemit.com/steem/@steemitblog/2hfxx1-pre-release-hf19-linear-rewards
-HF 20 - ANN proposal coming soon
-CBTs (Community Building Tokens) - https://steemit.com/community-tokens/@fyrstikken/ned-scott-ceo-of-steemit-inc-have-a-40-minute-conversation-with-the-steemspeak-com-community more on this soon.
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@ned but linear rewards is only a very small step in the right direction, unless i'm misunderstanding the article. It's of course still better than it is now so that's good! Anyway, the rewards are only 1 of a few other basic problems with the algorithms. They all need to be tweaked so they all work together, right now content isn't curated properly, people don't get penalized for curating improperly (upvoting bad content, downvoting good content and sheep behavior for example), the reputation system is just a popularity system and it makes very little sense to allow voting from the first second of publication without giving the curators the opportunity to read the content at their own speed.
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great concerns Calamus! I'm with you. One question though, how exactly would one "penalize for curating improperly"...seems like it would be a tricky thing to implement. If you upvote someone that doesn't reach a certain threshold of additional upvotes, then it's judged to be 'bad content'?
If upvotes are the mechanism through which we can algorithmically judge the 'quality' of content, how does one measure good or bad quality in any other way? Seems like a good problem to me. Also... I think there's a real question at hand here...If there is value in upvotes, how can we possibly prevent people from acting as dollar maximizers? I'm not sure we can. Ultimately, we all have some aspect of power from our own votes and words...
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hmm @abit would you mind sharing your reason of flagging @ned's comment?
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experiment. it's an auto downvote due to the amount of rshares coming from fyrstikkens vote
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Ohhh right i read about that actually.
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Thanks for the updates @ned - many are hysterical on here but fail to realise we are still in Beta mode. I myself have probed the underbelly of Steemit today in my Daily Dose, but that is the role of philosophy: to destroy our idols. Not in they way you might think, but to make us stronger in the long term so our Alpha game is never found lacking!! ... Steady as she goes @ned ... blue skies ahead :)
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I'm just a minnow, a content creator coming from YT and FB in May, and Abit is downvoting my content. What's the point of that? He says its just business and no hard feelings. WHAT?? Most of my followers are not whales! It ruins my ambition.
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@mericanhomestead i think @abit is doing an experiment where he downvotes other whales that blindly vote for content or something. So it doesn't mean your content isn't good, it's just a statement. I don't know the exact details but i believe he posted about it a few months ago.
P.S.: you already had a following before you came on SteemIt, imagine how 99% of the SteemIt users feel when they work hard and never earn more than $0.10 for hours of hard work. Most people have it way worse than you even.
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Hey, it's got nothing to do with me either :)
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That is awesome @ned! Looking forward to it!
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this is fantastic @ned . Did not know about the tokens
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Tell me how the tokens fix all the problems? :)
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Don't know. We wait and see how it will roll out. then we apply criticism if needed. I applaud the effort though now.
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I curate and am getting rewarded just fine.
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yeah, me too - curating and doing it just fine - no need to pay me for an upvote.
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You're not in the group with the problematic experience, you're in the top 0.5% or something :)
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@fyrstikken mentioned connections amongst other things help with upvotes and ofcourse sp too etc. So give it time! Everyone is CEO of steemit!
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Lol there's only 1 CEO. But that reminds me of the roadmap they released, i think they said they will probably allow us to vote on changing blockchain settings and such, that will be cool.
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hahaha, that is where it becomes obvious that you have not learned enough yet! You look at concepts, vision more than outright words! roadmap is theory! There principles and concepts. In my eyes, you are a whale even! Depends on how you see yourself. In reality, there are no titles. You have small bank or steemit wallet, you have a reputable community of great minds, and a ton of information, plus a blockchain, what esle do you need to start your own company or empire? we are on fyrstikken post and oh see how he has built his own, and if one doesn't have the means to money-wise but you have a vision, you can team up with likeminded people and create a movement aligned with a vision! Hahahaha, you are a ceo on steemit! with time, you will see this!
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Of course i look at concepts, i'm a programmer, that's what interests me, creating complex revolutionary systems. I'm less interested in money, marketing and such.
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LMFAO you have 1.3 MILLION SP, most people have under a 100. I hope you were trolling ;)
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Exactly. That's why I purchased that amount of SP. SP in a way is like hash power.
SP: "Influence tokens which give you more control over post payouts and allow you to earn on curation rewards."
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@johalfiles There are times when I wish I could go back in time and buy a ton of steem. Now, Im simply powering up as much as possible with the payouts on my articles. Curation rewards are pretty decent and its good to remain powered up. I've been buying steem at nearly every lows since being hospitalized during the dumps I missed the chance. Hoping the price doesnt rise quickly so there's ample time for greater steem distribution.
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With great power comes great responsibility lol
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This is true @timsaid. Uncle Ben said it best.
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Yeah i understand. Maybe we first need millions of users and much more liquidity before we can come to any reasonable conclusion, but right now it feels like content creators are way too dependent on large SP holders.
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Possibly. I agree to some extent there brother. Time will tell. Also a higher price of steem may cause a different factor in this as well...not sure.
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That's what i mean with too early, the price of STEEM is so low right now that whales aren't selling to even out the distribution.
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As the price of steem rises though the distribution gets worse. As a net percentage it won't change just due to price, but the amount of fiat that separates the 1% of people that own 90% of steem will make it harder to level that playing field.
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Huh? Now that is good info. I'm new to all this and little bits here and there such as this are "GOLDEN". About SP being like hash power. Thanks "thejohalfiles
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Well said.
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you have done great analysis, i am not sure whether whalshares and the other are harming steem but quite influenced by your thought. I need to research more on this. Thanks for the video
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You are welcome, please do your due diligence/research. Thanks for the comment
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I salute your post.
This is a complex subject and I'm not 100% for or against the project even though I have said of it that it's pure genius.
You might be right. It's difficult to foresee everything this project entails. I'm saying this honestly.
I think as with everything there are risks and benefit which people will have to evaluate.
Personally I don't think I would ever want to sell some of my votes because I wouldn't want my votes to appear on posts I don't support. I abhor the idea of seeing my name appear on a post that push ideals I oppose. I think this will be the case for most people. I also think this will become truer to everyone as Steem overall influence grows.
Also whales that sell their votes will have to evaluate the risk of losing some support if they engage in selling their votes, for the reasons mentioned above. If someone see a whale they know who's an anarchist beginning to vote on all sorts of posts that are anti-anarchist they will instantaneously understand this whale is selling their votes and might hesitate to support that Steemian in the future.
There's also the fact that bad authors who need to buy votes should in the long run become less influential compare to the authors who garner real consensus and so don't have to pay to create consensus or fake consensus.
I think what you are saying it this post is a bit a kind to saying: "Hey! We have incentive to live in the truth and not selling our vote to the highest bidder. Let's vote for what is most important or the truest to us. The best placed person to cast the best vote for us and thus everyone around us is ourselves, not the highest bidder in term of $." I tend to agree on that.
In the long run, Whaleshare or not, I tend to think most people will vote for themselves, for what is best for them.
I tried to clarify some of my stance on this project and I look forward to some more discussion on it.
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Do you?
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I try to.
We don't see most of the posts so we can only vote for the posts we see, obviously.
Most of the post or authors I vote for don't mention money and that's something I don't understand. If we are to be true, we need to acknowledge the place of money in our life and in our society and its impact. The very life of all people on Earth is subservient to money so rationally we should give this topic the place it deserves.
People are literally starving to death over the lack of it. We can't ignore those facts. People need to be talking about money creation and wealth concentration, these aren't just some subjects we should talk from time to time.
I don't see people addressing these subject the way they need to be. This is the case for a lot of subjects.
A lot of the posts and authors I support right now are people that support me back so that I can become a more influential Steemian. Being a more influential Steemian helps our posts to get more visibility. That being said I never hesitate to vote for someone who doesn't support me but whose post is the truest.
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I agree with @teamsteem - we have a saying in India - 'Up there is God, and down here its Money'.
But @fyrstikken is making a valid point.
I believe that the reason people are starving around the world is that people with money have bought 'votes' and are now deciding what according to them is best.
They think that it doesn't matter what happens to all those people starving - they go about their lives and build more weapons and start wars to make sure that they always remain in power.
To remain in power these same people 'rig' the voting system and buy the votes and the whole circle starts all over again.
That is why you have 1% of the people owning 99% of the world's wealth.
If the votes are being sold and bought here on Steem - then it's the same scenario repeating itself.
In the real world, it's difficult to get rid of such politicians - I hope this is not the case on Steem.
Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and all other Social networks will eventually perish because of this very reason, they want to make money at other people's expense - as is happening with @mericanhomestead.
Steem may be the first one of it's kind - but remember Facebook came after MySpace.
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I get you.
At the same time I think those who will pay for vote on Steem should make less profit in the long run than those who don't have to pay for vote but are creating genuine consensus.
Thank you for taking the time to comment.
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Yes we have to identify such people by analyzing and we have to make some group who stand for the protection of steem. Our comment will be a symbol of a good post or so.. but its not a very good idea .. need some good suggestions.
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Thanks for interesting and detailed analysis
Thanks for 4 point plan
I watched the video and I agree fully with you
Have a great weekend
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Your welcom @lordoftruth, great weekend to you and yours too.
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Huge thanks for your support.
Yes, the weekend start, the time to enjoy some beers.
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Thanks for the upvote, cheers to you :)
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Hey man,
You downvoted my post. I did just the design. You know very well that I enter almost every design contest here in Steemit. It's my job and opportunity to get involved. Imagine if you were getting downvoted for inviting people that some other whales disagree.
You are a whale with half a million power. How could you possibly downvote a design initiative when you know very well I have nothing to do with anything else? At least wait to see how this thing will turn out. It's very hard for people like me to build rep just to see it go away because you decided to measure dicks with another whale.
https://steemit.com/design/@kyriacos/the-making-of-whaleshares-brand-design-logo-presentation
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Yes, I downvoted your design-post for WhaleShares. If you see the video you will know why.
Do not take it personally - this is business & politics.
Let us get all the cards on the table and make sure the deck is right.
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What politics? I am a designer. I enter EVERY competition. You know that very well since I got involved with the RobinHood Whale initiative. Why you hurt people that just get involved with the community when you know how hard it is for people like me?
Dude I remember you just some months ago, whining and moaning about the unfair downvotes you were getting. I even supported some of your posts in good heart. You came into a position of power and you do the same shit with the same exact excuse?
This is not a professional response from your part. This is an emotional outburst. Classic "small guy turn into asshole because of immediate power".
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I don't agree with some of the points you make in other subjects @kyriacos, but this particular one I do... it's not right to penalize people caught in the cross-fire of two people disagreeing. It sets a bad precedent.
What I am hoping for, is for more discussion on the matter so they both can work out their differences if this is possible.
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Healthy relationships work this way. If there is always a disagreement or always an agreement then there is a problem.
I agreed with fyrstikken in some subjects in the past and disagreed in some others. I am sure it is the same with you.
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Yes... the dynamic ability of someone to "sometimes" agree and "sometimes" disagree.. shows intelligence without holding a grudge.
It is these types of mature conversations I thrive on... :)
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there you go :)
most of the good friends I made was through fights. applies in real life as well.
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Cheers @fyrstikken. Just came across whaleshares and found your video so am very glad to see someone laying it out very simply. Thanks for trying to keep this place honest! It is surely a difficult task!
Hope your day is going well!
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Thank you so much @fyrstikken for upvoting my comment. It is very much appreciated however I am very new here and not exactly the most up to date in terms of how the whole thing works but on intitial impressions I am uncomfortable with some of the things that are going on and I feel that there are a few at the top with all of the power just as in the real world. This troubles me. I don't know much about you other than what you have written in this post and speaking in your video but clearly you seem to have a bit of influence around here and whilst I appreciate that you may be using that power for good, the fact that you have this power is still an issue for me. I know that I am just a 'minnow' in this place but I feel that if I decide to become a member of a community such as steemit then I should have just as much say in how that community conducts itself as anyone else. I appreciate that some people have been here since the beginning which is why they have been able to gain so much power but the fact that they were here at the beginning gave them the opportunity to build their following before newer users and this should be reward enough I think. As far as those investing in the platfrom I understand that they do so to make a return on their investment but short term and long term investments require different stategies and a fairer, more equal voting and reward system to my mind would attract a steadier stream of new users and be a better long term strategy.
This comment is not given with the intention of recieving an upvote my friend , I am more concerned with the platform becoming a fair and level playing field for all and as a new member it is in my interest for steemit to grow also.
Perhaps my expectations are too high with so much profit to be made but this platform could be something really special i feel as long as we are willing to fight for it because if we do not it will surely go the same way as all of the rest that came before.
I would love to know what your thoughts are.
Thanks again!
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Just a pleasure. Come join us on Discord 24/7 at http://steemspeak.com I spend at least 17 hours a day there. Sounds like we could talk for hours :D
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I have already joined via the link on your page but on arrival I was intinidated by how technical it looked. :) I had initially intended to respond to you there but changed my mind. I will try to work out how things work later and look forward to speaking to you in future.
Hope your day is going well!
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discord is very easy. You can even find the app on your phones app store.
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It is going great :)
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Gaming the system has to stop. Whatever the agreed upon distribution is, and will be, is what we have to work with. I'm relatively new and I see the bloodthirsty greed of people demanding follows for follows, looking to get rich tomorrow.
This platform should look at new members as a country looks at legal immigration. Only a certain number per day per week per month. Otherwise the platform will be overrun and perverted by gold-seekers.
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I liked your username, it's pretty accurate here
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Thanks, I started using this avi on twitter years ago.
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#whaleshares #krcollusion #whaledownvoting #rewardpoolrape Whatever next big man?? Great video!!
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Actually take the time to post, read articles and comment. The natural way.
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that is the best way.
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Fyrstikken is not problem , you know how much i respekt you . I will explayn why i like the project and if you disagree cool we all have a right to see the
things diferent:)
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I´ll hear you on steemspeak when you log in :)
Nothing personal, just politics/business.
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Going to heardreser but my new mic is here we will test and speak leater :)
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yessa, and I'm a businesswoman
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lending steem power, now that's interesting. Good thought!! And Awesome video, very, very informative.
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So True.
And at least that is 100% fair, and everyone can participate in it. Whaleshares will become something only people with money can participate in (poor people cannot afford whaleshares/paid upvotes)
Thanks for a great comment @lukinsawyer
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Thanks for a great post!... I also think it's pretty shady this whole whaleshare.. Seems like money is just getting recycled through rich hands.
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Everything you said is so true.
"so shit posts will get whale votes? " this was the first thought to cross my mind when I heard about whale shares few days back.
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Yeah, I'm with you. I'm not into this.
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I need to consider the information presented, but I really appreciate you taking the time to clearly articulate your thoughts. Thank you
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I'm totally with you @fyrstikken
You are a great person for this community. I first listened to you in the latest talk with ned and I love your accent.
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@fyrstikken thank you for bringing this matter up in the light
I hope teamsteem does take the right step in resolving this issue.
More power to you mate.
Beer is on me!!
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What do you mean and have you seen my comment above?
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Absolutely i saw your comment that is the reason i mentioned your name agai so that you get to know we have hopes from steem.
Here in india i am trying to get more people on this platform moreover we see the price of steem as cryptocurrency is growing on the charts and posts and things like these might make a setback for the investors and believers of steem.
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As with anything there is risks and benefit. It's up to each of us to individually evaluate them.
I always look forward to bring value to Steem as I have a lot to lose and a lot to gain from it.
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Wow I hadn't thought of this before. Thats a great analysis you've done. It does seem like it goes against the general mantra of steel...
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excellent info.! - thanks for keeping us informed - Voted and following.
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Great insight on whaleshares. I would however assume, that any project built ontop of the steem blockchain would be beneficial for steem and if the project owners manage to profit off of that, then it shows that the project is successful.
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I heard about it. Whaleshares
Very confusing. Need to understand more.
I don't need it.
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I think you make great arguments and I agree with you. And by the way, I wrote a post on SteemPower loans as well! :)
https://steemit.com/steemit/@trevorlyman/p2p-steem-power-loans
One comment though, if the system puts motivations in place that allow people to game the system I think the problem is more with the system than those that are abusing it. I view the abusers more like "hackers". They are revealing weaknesses in the system, and so also opportunities to improve it.
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Trevor, to this point I have been studying cryptocurrency aspect of steem and not really what the actual platform is about. I thought it was just sort of a replacement for facebook, twitter, etc... Is it really only for bloggers? Is that what I am hearing here?
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Straight forward, to the point and good info I wasn't even aware of. Thank you. Following.
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kind of buying upvotes... What about those who cant buy the upvotes?... Will whales upvote crappy content?
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I wont upvote "crappy" content - but you don´t need to pay me for an upvote if I find your article interesting. Imagine if everyone started charging everyone for upvotes, STEEM would be REKT. I don´t want that to happen. I love Steem, and I love the users and all the cool stuff I find here.
I want our platform to be as fair as possible, fairness is important for the integrity of steemit.com and all the other steem-powered websites and apps.
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Well, that is something i don't understand about whaleshares, what happens if someone "pays" for getting their post voted but is a poor content post?... Are whales bound to vote anyway?
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Look at the trending page. Then look at it again once every 6 hours and notice what users are on there. Then check your own feed if you follow users who never trend. Compare the quality of the posts and the amount of money they make. The trending posts are not shit, but they don't deserve more than a lot of posts that make only a few dollars. Yet the same users are trending all day every day, always have been.
Did the autovotes they get lead to empty posts making lots of money ...? No. Not exactly.
Whaleshares offers the vote of one whale. It isn't huge. Until whales have to start flagging empty posts due to votes from whaleshares tokens, I don't see this as a problem compared to the orca whales on the trending page who only vote for eachother.
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lest forget paying for downvotes to really have things rekt
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Again is steem intended to be only for bloggers?
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don't know much about the topic or what whaleshares is, going to watch the vid now
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Thank you for this information.
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your most welcome.
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Thanks for the insight @fyrstikken. As a newbie, this can be quite confusing as I get my head around things. Voting seems to be a political topic. I vote for articles I like and I learn something from.. at the moment some of these do certainly cover steem and crypto articles as I learn more, but equally travel, health food and photography articles I find interesting. I wondered about this program as a newbie, obviously we all like to see rewards, but also had a gut feeling it was not in the true spirit of Steem. Good to go with my instinct I think. I'll just continue to publish content that I am proud of and make meaningful connections with like minded people and any monetary rewards are a bonus :)
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can I get a link to this whaleshare thing? Whats this about?
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I designed the logo.
https://steemit.com/design/@kyriacos/the-making-of-whaleshares-brand-design-logo-presentation
Here is the post
https://steemit.com/beyondbitcoin/@officialfuzzy/beyondbitcoin-bounties-whaleshares-logo-contest-round-1-3-1000-s-of-steem-in-prizes
I am not sure how it is going to work either. I did the logo because I almost always enter design competitions in Steemit
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Here you go, @trafalgar: https://steemit.com/created/whaleshares
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sounds very interesting but I agree that it can be exploited really badly
I didn't look very deeply into it, that's just my cursory impression
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We'll be posting an interview explaining the concept very soon. Follow @votu to stay tuned
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another gimmick?
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Thank you for your great analysis, information and for taking the time to figure all this out its very much appreciated. I dealt with vote bullying on my last post. I sucks big time. I was told it was to balance things out, I said at the time to balance what a $1.20 post at the time. @mindhunter told me you are awesome at this stuff. Thank you for this post. It made my night.
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Good wins
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As a woman on here, we need to band together and take no crap, steem on
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We definitely all need to band together, men and women that way nobody who wasn't involved in whatever disputes are going on doesn't get hit by the crossfire like I did today. Especially when I'm here to community build and everyone I have met has been nothing but nice to me and vice versa. I also have to follow one of my rules in life never take anything personal. I hear you@ battleaxe but anything can happen on steemit. Hopefully all the wrinkles get ironed out soon.
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Agreed. Collateral damage and cross-fire isn't right. My guess is that @fyrstikken struck first as a demonstration of what could happen.
What he could have done, instead, is announce that he was "going" to do the downvoting.. before he did it... so we could have this same discussion without hurting people's earnings.
My suggestion might be to remove the downvotes until this is solved?
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No it wasn't @fyrstikken he is actually a nice guy from what @mindhunter tells me and I trust mindhunter a lot. @fyrstikken never even voted on my latest post and nor does he have to. when It was others with bots who down voted me. I was told because someone with high SP up voted me and the bot these 2 ppl used did it to balance out a 1.20 post at the time. Thats what I meant by crossfire. You can look at the post and see who it was. Yes it would be nice if those 2 people could remove them until whatever problem was solved but like I said this is steemit anything can happen, its not fair and right my earnings have to hurt but I consider myself lucky to be a part of this community and I'm learning. I don't know if what I was told was even accurate but I have faith in the person who told me.
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Your motto on your profile which is really meaningful applies here:
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Thank you. But when you have no control over the situation and you are dealing with people with SP that can destroy you with one click or slide in this case! What can you do? I can still reach my destination by talking to them and finding out what happened exactly. I'm here for the long term and to make friends and community build. Plus, I don't get involved in other peoples business. As far as my situation I will talk to the 2 people tomorrow and see what and why this happened. @intelliguy #diplomacy :)
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p.s. following you!
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Strange situation to pick up a follower... but my stuff is usually inspirational. I hope I won't let you down. :)
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@mindhunter is solid, he's a good guy who sees through b.s. and I respect his opinion too
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@fystikken you brought a valid point to the table indeed , but if we look into this those are valued weight for the system and each contribution will be promising to the network so its give and take , what do you think ?
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Just wanted to thank you @fyrstikken for being the match to help kindle so many of us newbies. Your support is a great encouragement! :)
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It is my pleasure @abcdoctor. It has been very spiritually rewarding to watch the userbase and activity grow in here, and I can´t wait for all the new good stuff that will come to steem in the near future. Welcome to the Steem-Network :)
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Thank you Sir :)
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nice informative video
you are on the right track buddy
thanks for sharing
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It seems ironic that I just finished watching a documentary called I AM about a Hollywood director (Tom Shadyac) who experiences a life-threatening head injury that makes him ask 2 questions:
What is wrong with this world?
What can we do about it?
Then I go to my computer and read this!
I encourage everyone to borrow the DVD from the library or find it somewhere else and watch it. I was telling the others in the room watching with me that what I so enjoyed about Steemit was that we were a community that valued sharing equitably. The documentary discloses what greed does to people and I would hate to see that happen here. This was our ticket to freedom from tyranny. Please don't destroy that.
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Flag whaleshare... Agree with that
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I agree to it being a vote-buying. The people who needs the most can't do anything :(
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Your idea is unique, but you're a little naive.
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I am new to steemit but I would never buy an upvote , I like earning my way not buying it.
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Awesome analogy comparing the corrupt political system and gaming the system... Thank you
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I agree fully with you
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Fyrstikken! Eg ælske deg! Rett i smørøyet!
On another note: buying those uia assets is going to become increasingly expensive. Bitshares (and Steem) is moving up -so spending your hard earned money on acquiring these third party tokens might be the most expensive upvotes you ever bought. Generally I would say do not buy anything you don't completely understand. By all means, I support bitshares and own it. The problem is the uia tokens that could be anything. Most of them can also be deleted if the issuer feels like it.
Heads up to fyrstikken for being outspoken and somewhat articulated 😊
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Great post. It certainly opened my eyes to the potential negatives of WhaleShares. I honestly had not taken the time to consider them. I will need to think about this in more depth. Thank you.
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I did not realise until after your video what whaleshares are. I'm against it. Feels like they are whoring out their power to influence the earnings of others while they sit back make a pretty penny. Do not want to offend anyone but this is not the route for steemit. Greed will break it down. Just like in any market or society. Greed always damages the ecosystem.
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I am 100% with you on this retaliation and flagging . And, I personally feel reward pool program should also be stopped. Thanks for sharing your thoughts @fyrstikken
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Perfect analysis!
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Buying upvotes is #fakesteem like how CNN is #fakenews.. be better Steemians!
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Very well said! Agreed.
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Exactly right!
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Yeah, and they are not giving tokens...make you work for them! As IF MAKING GOOD POSTS ISN'T HARD ENOUGH.
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Don't fake it. Those are good words.
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Why such hate guys?
You know me...or you should.
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I think your project is designed to make you rich and I do not see how it would benefit anyone else. I have known you for about 1 year, and in that year I have noticed a change in you, allow me to say, I think money and power has gone to your head, @officialfuzzy, you are not the man you were a year ago and that reflects in what you say and what you do.
What exactly have you done for the minnows and steemit since you joined @officialfuzzy - I am curious how valuable you think you are, and how valuable you really are in terms of generosity.
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Well said @fyrstikken - @officialfuzzy needs to look inwards here. Money makes a good slave, but a terrible master! The tone of his posts have changed towards allowing money to be his master since I first arrived here! Lets pray he changes his attitude and shapes up like his grandparents!!
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Thank you @mindhunter. Great way of putting it.
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P.S. #janitorsunited rule #2: If you don't have my back when I'm struggling for a cause, you can't be by my side when I eventually succeed. RESTEEMED :)
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Money makes a good slave, but a terrible master - the first rule pulled from the #janitorsunited rulebook! ;)
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You are a child.
Please ignore my existence. I prefer to build...you prefer to tear things down. Karma is coming fyrst. Its out of my hands bro.
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lol, So you could not list even ONE thing you have done for the steem community fuzzy, not even ONE. And you write to me like this, in a threatening manner?
Shame on you Fuzzy. Wrong way of pimping your whalesharescam. Now I know for sure that your intentions are far away from good.
Let me put it in clear text for you:
I Care about the platform and our investments . I am against your whaleshares because they are designed to fill up your pockets on behalf of both customers and the rewardpool. I do not support the kind of corruption you are trying to onboard. I am against it.If you want to make it personal - it is on you.
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I have recording of you saying you will use it and how much you love it. Please ignore me so I can work on real stuff.
Also have you saying how evil you are and how you plan to attack this project.
Grow up and get over your delusions of granduer. Really please.
For others reading this, watch actions.
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With a simple script everyone can sell automatic upvotes, just send 100 steem to this account with memo upvote "url" and a script will do the job.(just as an example)
But You running around trying to game the system using a THIRD PARTY TOKEN to do it only tells me that not only are you incompetent in the steem universe, but you are also completely stuck in your faul way of thinking.
Dont take it personal, this is business - steem business.
no need for shady bitshares middlemen for that. Scammy, shady, selling tokens, fees ++++ all that and more - But good luck. Maybe you can fool someone around here, but you cannot fool me and I be damned if I were to just sit around and say nothing about it.
You should be ashamed of yourself fuzzy. Slap, Slap, Slap!
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"...a simple script everyone can sell automatic upvotes, just send 100 steem to this account.."
interesting info !!!
Thanks for sharing
Have a nice sunday
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I need to grab some popcorn. I think this gives other newbies who are writing killer post, and who are not being upvoted to take matters into their own hands. Its kinda like the having to pay to have your stuff "promoted".
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I'm glad you posted this. When fuzzy put his idea about 'whaleshares' out there, I could see it benefiting the Bitshares platform but not the steemit. So I stayed out of this project. It doesn't look like a win/win for both sides. I was in on one of fuzzys secret meeting when steemit was just launch. So I'll start by pointing out a fact. People are going to try to game the Steemit system and no one can shame them to stop. What I learned about fuzzy in the last 3 years is that he is a gamer. I mean online videos games. He did states he was going to try to game Steemit in order to fix it. In other words, use the
skill he has to make steemit better by braking it. In the end if fuzzy can't game Steemit. Then beta testing is over. I could be wrong, just my 2 steem cents.
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I removed the flags on @battleaxe's annonymous blog from yesterday, that my bot made.
And I deleted the Discord app from my devices, as I am tired of the place, that mostly is statism bullying to me.
I think it is good you created SteemSpeak and all, but I find the place toxic for myself... so anyway good luck with the place in the future.
Lasse
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you need to stop being so rude to everyone for no reason. Do to others what you want others to do to you.
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I do not agree that I have been rude to anybody. I have tried to defend myself from bullying, that's all.. it is called self defense according to the NAP.
Good luck in the future! Bye!
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Big mention for you in the Daily Dose today big man! #grandparentsproud :)
https://steemit.com/steemit/@mindhunter/the-steemit-daily-dose-mindhunter-looks-at-the-darker-side-of-steemit-gameification-whaledownvoting-rewardpoolrape-krcollusion-whaleshares-1496475636-1603878
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Agreed.
Fuck this system. Fuck any system but what is coded in the STEEM blockchain.
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Sorry fyrstikken, but you're buying steem to upvote. How is it any different if somebody uses these whaleshares, which once spent are gone - unlike steem where you can keep going forever?
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Lol, You wanna buy some whale-votes, or do you want to earn real votes from your audience? Fake it until you make it? Pay the middle-man? So Sad.
Yes, I buy Steem - and I power some of them up, I wont sell votes - but I am willing to rent out some of my steempower on a legit open market. Then you can do with it what you want without dragging me into the dirt.
If you are so desperate that you need to buy whale upvotes, then I am sure there are whales that you can do that with directly already. However, I would suggest going legit, create great content, make it a good click-bait, marketing it like a boss and earn it.
Have you too been blinded by the dollar-signs so you cannot see straight?
What happen to that @beanz that was against corruption and for fairness and freedom, was that just a facade?
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I've never bought a whale vote fyrstikken. I earned some tokens the same way most people earned steem - knowing the right people and supporting the shit they happen to like. This token simply allows me to vote for any posts just like steem power. It is the same as messaging @officialfuzzy in private, which as you know is how we've always had to do things, because we do not have any auto-voters. He supports whatever we post, even the memes, for whatever reason. Instead of giving us his voting key and saying "here, take as much as you want" he's giving out a token that limits the amount people can take. And he's giving them to the people he chooses to vote for just like you and every other whale does.
I am against corruption when I see it fyrtikken and the platform is riddled in it. Unfortunately you're not seeing how your steem power self upvotes are the exact same except there is a limited supply of votes we get from these tokens, unlike steem power.
People are not voting for our posts in order to get a return - and because of that it is not vote-buying like the simply bet sporting posts are. You can only compare it to the way steem buying is vote buying, but for now it's mostly community building and earning just like they do on steemspeak and the price channel and everywhere else where friends vote for friends.
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I get it - you are on the "taker" side Great, at least I know why you are so biased. Now I pulled some data out of the SBDS just to see what Fuzzy has been doing since he joined steemit, let´s take a look - fangirl.:
How many votes has OfficialFuzzy given since he joined? 6,424 votes.
How many votes has fyrstikken given since I joined? 113,122 votes. WoW - Spreading the wealth, right?
But wait, there is more - Let´s take a look at how many unique accounts this minnow-loving whale votes for shall we?
OfficialFuzzy: 1,760
Fyrstikken: 10,943 BOOM!!
As you can see - he is just words and no action - NO ACTION!!
His track-record of making STEEM better is a non-existing one.
However, he gave plenty of space for MrWang to sell his $250 shitcoin on his BeyondStupid show until MrWang dumped all of them on the market for pennies. Great show of character making good people bagholders.
But nevermind @beanz - thanks for the information on how you get votes for your show. You are one of the few.
As long as it benefits you personally in the short term, you give two craps about steem in the long term, cuz you aint invested, you dont care.
That is how I read what you wrote.
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Fyrstikken you gave 1% to every post for months ......... that's common knowledge
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As for biased, you might remember I was a "taker" of the steem guild too. After their payment system was revealed I asked to be removed from their list of accounts to support. When I see something wrong I don't want to be part of it and often thought about leaving steemit completely because of that.
I don't appreciate the circle jerks of friends voting within their circle constantly but I've come to accept that humans are human and everybody's an idiot. Everybody here votes emotionally even those I think are rational and then there is robotic voters which are just as idiotic, but hey, that's the system that's humans design by being human.
If you really care about user satisfaction (and I do believe you do - just targeting the wrong issue if you're in favour of self upvotes) then take action on what's trending every day within the first hour. That's where the system is being gamed - the same users "earning" through nepotism and becoming the next corrupt whales by never voting outside their circle of friends.
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I think whaleshares is ok because it could potentially increase the value of steem power, plus I don't believe I have the authority over what people vote on (fair enough flagging bad quality posts/comments).
Is it not similar to promoting your post except instead of the currency going to the null account it goes to the whaleshares account?
Do you have the same concerns regarding curation groups/trails? https://streemian.com/profile/curationtrail
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Thank you for posting this @frystikken! After hearing about whaleshares, I myself tagged 2 of my posts with "the50" because I thought that I can receive more exposure. I got 20-25 upvotes on each of the posts but nobody cared to open and read them. These are empty, fake upvotes, which I don't need. I came to steemit to express my creativity, to discuss interesting topics and connect with other like-minded people. Whaleshares has nothing to do with this at the moment. I believe that with persistence (and a little bit of luck) I will be able to develop my blog, connect with such people, and maybe make some money.
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True words. This will ruin steemit long term. It's just a snowball system.
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Nicely said, @fyrstikken. There will always be people wanting to abuse the system, it's human nature. Let's hope such users are less than the others users, who are trying to have good content posted here.
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What, another kind of token? Gosh, I'm sure that won't confuse things... I'll have to look into this one once I'm back home, but gotta run for now.
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You are right, this whaleshares thing smelled a bit fishy from the beginning but I had to see the video to fully understand that this could be very bad for Steemit. Keep up the good work.
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Congratulations @fyrstikken!
Your post was mentioned in my hit parade in the following categories:
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Nicely put @fyrstikken
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I agree that great content should be rewarded!
I also don't want to see content faked to the top. Don't buy the votes!
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nice....your post deserve my upvote and resteem....
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I agree with most of the points you made
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Also for me it seems like a fishy temporary "powering up"
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I resteemed this. Great post mate.
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Thanks for standing up for all the people that need folks like you to make a stand in a community that lots of us are new to, let alone a crypto currency system that many including myself are learning.
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thank you my friend.....!
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Now this certainly has negative impacts on the philosophy of the community, the philosophy being " good authors are appreciated and rewarded the best, but not those crappy leach".
You know @fyrstikken how much I respect you, you do upvote me for my good works because it's worthy not because I asked you.
And, this is how you say it
this line really got my attention and is worth it
Now that I am not completely for or against the system, but I also don't like the idea about shit post earning money. You know I joined this community in march, and it's only been two months and I have got supports and benevolence. I enjoy this community because of the idea that we can share knowledge and idea to anyone with same interest and on the side get paid for it. Money isn't only a concern, the network and the community is. The community where good authors are appreciated and rewarded for their goodness :) This gives value to the community. @ned hi, you are the CEO of the community, which @surpassinggoogle says everyone is in terms of their vision and their belief, I couldn't agree more :)
However, if someone could get upvotes and thereby money because of tokens and not their work and goodness then that would definitely hurt the community. It will just mean for the money and for the play, the play being earning money.
I am not fully against the whaleshares token btw. I have also promoted it, but I do not tempt to support or go against this. It also has some pros on the side, it will hopefully rise the demand and thereby price of steem, and also some struggling users who haven't been getting much rewards that they deserve can actually earn money for them. That being said, it won't be a good idea to just upvote some crappy posts because of tokens. I believe there must be some guidelines and restrictions as to which post should be eligible for the upvotes. Anyway, that would bring a whole different scenario.
I love the community for the support and vision it has, the vision being helping each others.
Thank you for your time to read my opinion, and don't get me wrong, I am only a member of the community expressing myself :)
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That you for your action, which clearly demonstrates your commitment to the health of Steemit, and for the clarity with which you articulate your case.
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Good post. If you want follow me :)
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...And of course it will mean that unless the whales get those tokens they wont give you the upvotes. Kind of like payola in the music industry of old. Whales get kickbacks for their upvotes....hmmmmm
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oh wow !! That is beautiful !! You are very talented , I love it ! Thanks for up voting one of posts , on the chat chanel ! Upped yours back !!
I will also resteem it so it gets more views , if you want to resteem this post for me !? Thanks , heres the link !
https://steemit.com/photography/@ahyenno/the-art-of-beaded-flower-violet
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So from now, it will be useless to make good content, just make shit content buy votes and you will make money. This is a greate idea for making money but how can improve this Steemit. It will become a place where good content will be useless and also a flag vs votes battle.
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Let me explain the paradox in simple terms:
Everything on steemit that talks about steem is a shit post.
If you upvote this comment you didn't get it.
This comment shouldn't have been written.
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I see points on both sides of the Whaleshares from @fyrstikeken & @officialfuzzy point of view which I think them and many others see and understand. Have been partially refraining from comment being a major supporter of both of their places in the community evident by their logos being shown and links to be both fun places to chat in their own respect.
Best wish we may all over forward with proper precaution that is being brought up by many in our wonderful community. Will be taking part in the whaleshares while also looking forward to precautions being thought about and being considered. Which I would like to say I have seen some communication towards these concerns within the whaleshares team effort.
Best,
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Vote buying is of concern.
Downvote buying may be of even more concern...
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yup
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Im with you all the way on this people need to work there way invest or become creative and give back to the community. This is why America is broke as fuck!
Also thanks for the support man!
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I am only 8 days in. I plan on being here a long time so I was looking into these to gain early traction. Yesterday morning I invested into one of these operations. Not the one being referenced on this post. Then later that night, I took some time and created a post that got noticed from everyone, including you. (Which I thank you for) It made me regret the Steem I gave away earlier in the day. Yeah, it might help a little, but the lightbulb turned on. Creating really engaging and high quality content is the key. I finally got my first taste of that and I know what it takes going forward....just a few hours too late.
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Congratulations @fyrstikken! You have completed some achievement on Steemit and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :
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an upvote fr me @fyrstikken (y)
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I totally agree with you and i think us minnows should swallow up some of these whales
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Thanks for sharing this. I just posted a blog about the power of ambassadors as i think we have something special going here and we need to promote that. But this whale buying does not fit in that picture if you ask me!
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As you can see on the clusterfuck the Trending Page has become, there are plenty of ways to circle-jerk, game, collude, befriend, etc. your way to high pay-outs for sub-par posts.
Let's not formalise or enable this in new ways.
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Keep flagging it, I totally agree. Steemit needs to be a legit platform. I tell my viewers I will upvote their posts... but if they just post "thank you" every single time, I'm not upvoting that. They have to contribute.
There is zero reason people can't contribute when they post... blogging is not difficult people, just post quality content. Blogging is not a get rich quick scheme.
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Thank you so much @fyrstikken.
As soon as I saw the 'Whaleshare' secret invite, I knew it was anti-competitive and collusive behavior - the same as what is going on with the elites in the real world.
Part of the Steemit appeal is that it purports to be a fair and competitive platform where posters can make a bit of money for good content. If Steemit fails to live up to this - posters will simply leave and Steem will be worthless (as you say).
I am happy to read that I was not the only person with concerns about 'Whaleshares'.
Regards,
SirKnight.
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Hey fyrstikitten, now that I've watched the video I would have to agree with you. I hope a solution will be implemented a soon as possible.
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Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Much appreciated!
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@fyrstikken thanks for pointing this out. I still consider my self relatively new to Steemit (3 months) and still feeling my way around. I have seen these posts and the like a lot in my feed. I agree, good content should stand on its own merit. Thanks for regularly upvoting my random ramblings. (I notice) And thanks for looking out for the little guys. Upvoted, and Resteemed.
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I understand them now! I can't believe people actually think this is a good idea. It just gives more reasons for upvoting random content, instead of good quality content.
So now trending can be filled with crap, just because some people bought their votes and whales can't be bothered to check for good content?
This won't be good for Steemit's overall quality at all...
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You called?
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Thank you.
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Thank you for this warning post! As newbie, my goal is to post quality, what I try to do. So I can see people enjoying my work with the side-effect of a making a little money. That's why I love this place.
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Congratulations @fyrstikken! You have completed some achievement on Steemit and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :
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Thank you very much for your support!
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if these things happen we will loose the real value of steemit for what it was created.................
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Thank you for bringing this to light @fyrstikken, I'm not a fan of vote buying either, and it's great to have a debate about these things. I'm a new guy here, but from what little I know about life and Steemit, nothing good ever happens by beating each other with a stick, in this case the downvoting. Please work it out guys and lets build something great together :)
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Thanks your comments..
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