F**k The Steem Nazis

paulag (73) · 5 years ago

@davemccoy

Man its been a hard few weeks. for everyone. And we thought the crypto winter was bad. This is like icing on the cake.

We are all feeling it, the small accounts and the big accounts. And yes for some it is a war over money, but for most, all us smaller dudes, the creators, the curators, the community builders, it's about decentralization and the fundamental beliefs of what steem is. A decentralized community with ownerships that can not be controlled by one single entity. And this is why we stand unit on steem right now.

I would have liked a partnership with TRON, Justin seems to offer more business skills than Ned. But what the exchanges have done goes against my core belief on what steem is. Justins witnesses want to disregard these beliefs that were coded into the chain as so to reverse the actions (of powering up customers money) made by the exchanges. To me that's a bad as the current financial system where banks are bailed out by the taxpayers time and time again.

Both sides have taken action here that have questioned my moral standing and there has been so much toxicity it makes me sick. However I am no longer a witness, and with all of this going on, very glad I am not a decision-maker. we all make our own standards and morals and that what makes us all unique.

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davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

As always I respect your opinions and thoughts @paulag. I'm sorry that you and Asher are not a witness any longer, that is a loss to the Steem community in my opinion.

Both sides have taken action here that have questioned my moral standing and there has been so much toxicity it makes me sick.

I couldn't agree more with your statement!

I always wish you the best Paula and lets hope we all come out of this with our friendships and community intact! :)

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cryptkeeper17 (64) · 5 years ago

Yes that is ridiculous and out of control. I am curious to see what Sun has in mind, I'll have to check on results there was supposed to be a witness meeting with his secretary this afternoon. His guy Rob was pretty interesting to hear listen to, so hopefully that amounts to something worthwhile. There are a lot of people showing their ass right now posting racist messages and all kinds of foul stuff about Sun on twitter, etc. This community is acting embarrassingly with some bad apples really getting carried away. To be honest it's about keeping power, and your list or people I respect looks a lot like mine, minus just a few more that I would add. The problem with this place is that the programmer/coder mentality of economics is absolutely disastrous. These people are functionally illiterate when it comes to reacting or preparing for human nature. Stellar at coming up with a great idea, steemit is revolutionary for sure. The problem is the community is also handicapped by the "decentralized centralized planners," that really have no concept of developing a sustainable community. Check out newbie participation for verification on that--we are missing almost two years of any significant growth of new people on the platform with people leaving in droves. You can blame Ned, and yes that is very easy. But last I checked we cannot get past the circle of 20 now that all of the sudden care about the community. The community was decimated over the past few years and until someone took some power away (I do admit in a really shady way-but he will regain the power by some other means-the entire cap of steemit is a rounding error for Tron's money available).

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6 votes

glory7 (80) · 5 years ago

well written. Thank you for the intuition and current situation analysis.

gomdory (66) · 5 years ago

곰돌이가 @glory7님의 소중한 댓글에 $0.031을 보팅해서 $0.011을 살려드리고 가요. 곰돌이가 지금까지 총 7551번 $99.962을 보팅해서 $102.089을 구했습니다. @gomdory 곰도뤼~

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block.kids (60) · 5 years ago

No one said it better!!! I am with @davemccoy on this one too.
I see lots of posts about how Justin tried to overthrow steem governance, and how he called witnesses hackers. Honestly, it sickens me that we have resorted to putting the cart in front of the horse.

Those statements would have never been issued, and the exchanges would have never had to step in if a few centralized people didn't move to freeze Tron's stake. The way I see it, that was the only way Justin could do something about it.

We claim that we did what we did to protect the chain, to facilitate negotiations. But it's clear this is an act to hold onto power in whatever way they can. Imagine if this happened to a wealthy investor who didn't have friends in Binance or Huobi, then it wouldn't have been a negotiation at all. He'd have been forced to accept the terms of the witnesses because his stake was held ransom.

By every definition, that's not a negotiation.
That's blackmail.

We really shouldn't be playing the victim on this one. It's kinda pathetic considering our witnesses started this whole thing. I do not think enough time and effort was given towards negotiating with the new leaders of steemit inc about their previous agreements on governance and stake usage.

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davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

Again, in complete agreement. Its amazing how many level headed people don't see the points you made.

Particularly this:

the exchanges would have never had to step in if a few centralized people didn't move to freeze Tron's stake. The way I see it, that was the only way Justin could do something about it.

And I used the term "extortion" when describing it, but we also see that point exactly the same.

Nice to see some clear thinking @block.kids! You're a breath of fresh air :)

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davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

very well said @cryptkeeper17 :)

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glory7 (80) · 5 years ago

Haven't had a chance to talk to you recently.

I feel that I am learning a lot by watching this drama. It really make me think more about human nature.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, and have fun playing splinterlands!

block.kids (60) · 5 years ago (edited)

Hey, @glory7. I am glad you're considering both sides as objectively as you could. Some of the top guys on here really didn't care about anyone but themselves and their businesses.

Everyone be acting like STINC owe them anything when in reality we're simply HODLing empty promises on text without some kind of a legal bind to that agreement. I don't see why the witnesses didn't get STINC to somehow put down that agreement on code. When Tron team asked to see it, the witnesses said they needed some time to collect it.

Really? We claim we reached out to have THIS conversation and we're yet to get the facts straight, but it's okay to jump ahead to freeze stake.

We negotiated in bad faith by taking Ned's word for it for 4 years. Today, we're freezing someone's stake. Shows how little we understand contracts on the blockchain. Do we really believe this blockchain code is law thing, or we pop it whenever it's convenient for us?

Steem's been too hostile to new people and people who have a different opinion. Centralization in decentralization.

You see it everywhere you look. They're trying to censor a person's opinion because it doesn't align with theirs. Earlier, they froze STINC's stake, then a witness called the steemit twitter account handler a monkey. Today, it's @lukestokes calling on the community to boycott steemit.com interface. (se his latest post)

You'd ask, what community?

The community they've consistently ignored for years, choosing rather to circle-jerk themselves to the trending page on steem related posts?
The community whose witness votes never counted because the top 20 was essentially centralised by 2 accounts (@freedom and @pumpkin) for years.

It's pathetic how they hide under the cloak of community to bully and demand the community take responsibility for them.

I am low on RC on my main account @pangoli. I am not afraid to say that i do not support what the witnesses did. I will be shifting my witness votes by setting Dave as a proxy asap.

glory7 (80) · 5 years ago (edited)

Thank you very much for your detailed reply. I agree with you for the most part(if not all), and I am still curious how these witnesses attacked the biggest investor without proper evidence.

And that they were "centralized" anyway as most of them needed vote from freedom.

davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

yes exactly @glory7 on both points. You get it indeed!

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gomdory (66) · 5 years ago

곰돌이가 @glory7님의 소중한 댓글에 $0.029을 보팅해서 $0.013을 살려드리고 가요. 곰돌이가 지금까지 총 7553번 $100.020을 보팅해서 $102.115을 구했습니다. @gomdory 곰도뤼~

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davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

wow, what an awesome response @block.kids... Something I think everyone should read and think about!

It's pathetic how they hide under the cloak of community to bully and demand the community take responsibility for them.

Perfect explanation. It is truly pathetic indeed!

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davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

Hey @glory7! Also nice to chat with you and its been a long time for sure! And yes the drama is a learning experience in many ways, and a great learning experience for sure :)

And definitely I'm happy playing splinterlands, its the best game in the whole crypto space... and with or without Steem, I think it will continue to be fun for a very long time!!!

Best of luck to you in the upcoming battles, I hope you continue to enjoy it too!!!

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gomdory (66) · 5 years ago

곰돌이가 @glory7님의 소중한 댓글에 $0.029을 보팅해서 $0.013을 살려드리고 가요. 곰돌이가 지금까지 총 7550번 $99.931을 보팅해서 $102.078을 구했습니다. @gomdory 곰도뤼~

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sparkesy43 (59) · 5 years ago

Is @danielsaori's witness back up? Last I saw it was disabled

davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

I think its still disabled, but I kept the vote there for the symbolic message "he's got my respect too!" ;)

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bashadow (65) · 5 years ago

I listened to the town hall meeting/broadcast live today on MSP waves web site. One of the ways to fix the witness situation that was bought up was lowering...yes you read that right...the number of witnesses, most often ten was mentioned, however they did talk about as low as three.

I just hope that in two years and a few months that steem is still around, because at the five year mark is when I will evaluate if I want to remain or not. I set myself a goal of five years, and that is what I am hoping for, but we will have to wait and see what happens. All I know is the witness trust has been broken.

I still stand with those who feel it was a mistake to fork out the stake, that the witnesses started this war on steem and they are the ones that need to fix it. Suggestion have been made on how to fix the witness system, and the down vote system for the last year or two. People cautioned them about what would happen if a very large investor came in. We were all told that no one entity could control steem, For years one entity did control steem.

Now that someone else wanted the sand box to themselves, we are needed, why are we needed, because the investors are sitting back watching and seeing which way the price will go. Whales and Orca's control well over 50% of the voting power on steem, not the dolphins minnows and new user redfish.

Supposedly the steem is locked up and can not vote, then can someone please explain why new 15 SP down vote bot army accounts can vote for witnesses?

bil.prag (68) · 5 years ago

it was talked about the number of witnesses that you can vote, not the number of witnesses. the idea is that you can't vote for 17 witnesses (supermajority) with your one account. the number of witnesses needed to make a hard fork would still be 17 but you would be able to vote less than 17 so 1 big account can't decide.

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bashadow (65) · 5 years ago

Okay now that kind of makes sense, when listening to the over talk and all the different numbers it sounded like at times they wanted to reduce the numbers of the consensus witnesses.

davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

Well said @bashadow. I hope you make it to the 5 year mark too. If anyone deserves to be heard, its you. You have been a stalwart from the time I met you and given so much to the community.

For years one entity did control steem.

I completely agree... That seems to be lost in the whole "we don't want one guy to control us" argument. Its laughable that people don't see it.

I still stand with those who feel it was a mistake to fork out the stake, that the witnesses started this war on steem and they are the ones that need to fix it

Completely agree with this too. Where is the accountability?

As always, I love to hear your thoughts and wish you the best!!!

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hone.heke (51) · 5 years ago (edited)

Hi @davemccoy
I vote the same way as you and for the exact same reasons.

Did you see the link to steemitwallet yet ?
Steemit Inc. (The “Company”), is a private company that helps develop the open-source software that powers steemit.com, including steemd. The Company may own various digital assets, including, without limitation, quantities of cryptocurrencies such as STEEM. These assets are the sole property of the Company. Further, the Company’s mission, vision, goals, statements, actions, and core values do not constitute a contract, commitment, obligation, or other duty to any person, company or cryptocurrency network user and are subject to change at any time. https://steemitwallet.com/about.html

The truth is out there : )

Edit
have you listened to the second Steemit-Sun representative meeting? its the second video on @bitrocker2020 's post
https://steemit.com/hive-196037/@bitrocker2020/d870hztcc5n

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bil.prag (68) · 5 years ago

please check the history about that about page. I can't say 100% but i could be 80% sure that it was added this few days :)

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block.kids (60) · 5 years ago

Hey, @dave. I share your views too. Some of the top guys on here really didn't care about anyone but themselves and their businesses.

Really? We claim we reached out to have THIS conversation and we're yet to get the facts straight, but it's okay to jump ahead to freeze stake.

Steem's been too hostile to new people and people who have a different opinion. Centralization in decentralization.

You'd ask, what community?

The community they've consistently ignored for years, choosing rather to circle-jerk themselves to the trending page on steem related posts?
The community whose witness votes never counted because the top 20 was essentially centralised by 2 accounts (@freedom and @pumpkin) for years.

It's pathetic how they hide under the cloak of community to bully and demand the community take responsibility for them.

I am low on RC on my main account @pangoli. I am not afraid to say that i do not support what the witnesses did. I will be shifting my witness votes by setting you as a proxy asap.

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davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

Again great response!

And this knocks it out of the park!

Steem's been too hostile to new people and people who have a different opinion. Centralization in decentralization.

ps... I'm honored you would set me as a proxy on your votes :)

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creativetruth (67) · 5 years ago

I am a little slow to grasp. There is a Sith controlling the Senate? So the enemy of the unknown enemy must be a friend?

Now I am very curious. Of course, having the wool pulled over our eyes is nothing new around here. As long as the wheel keeps turning in the right direction...

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davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

lol... funny. If you look hard enough, you will find the Sith does indeed exist! :D

But seriously, if the power we don't know (@pumpkin and @freedom) doesn't accept accountability (stay annonymous and secretive), then how can we assume they are better than Justin Sun? For all we know those 2 accounts could be globalist George Soros.

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kingbit (69) · 5 years ago

I agreed that.Thank you your opinions.

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davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

thank you @kingbit!

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abitcoinskeptic (73) · 5 years ago

Do you want to help a billionaire?

I found you because of glory7 resteem.

I am also losing my religion so to speak over this issue. I'm sorry you are being bullied to make a personal choice (it's worse than American elections over here).

I sold out and proxied-out. I picked the someguy123 because he was nice to me the other day and runs servers. I don't think he is a whale (you never know), he just does a job and takes his witness earnings (he votes for whales). Yeah #yolo

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davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

Hey @abitcoinskeptic, thanks for stopping by. @glory7 is a great guy, so I'm thankful to meet one of his friends!

To answer your questions:

I don't want to help a billionaire, but on the other hand, how do I know the guys that controlled Steem before weren't billionaires themselves? They were and always have been private and never revealed who they are, what their policies are, and how much money they have. So I would rather vote for the people that are least honest enough to "go on the record" by being revealed.

Thank you for your point about being bullied, and you are right it is very similar to elections.

As for who you vote for, I don't think you are selling out by proxying your vote. You paid for your Steem and you can vote it however you think is fit! I don't know him, but if you like him then that is a good reason to do so... Being nice is under-rated in life, I wish more people valued that as a trait to live by! :)

Thanks again for stopping by and nice to meet you!

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abitcoinskeptic (73) · 5 years ago

There is too much politics around here. I thought the system was designed to avoid this. But meh...here we are.

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davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

Yep. Agreed!

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denmarkguy (76) · 5 years ago

Hi there @davemccoy, haven't seen your name pop up in a while; nice to know you're still here.

This entire affair seems to have become so much bigger than it really needs to be, and my worry these days — speaking as a very small "fish," even after more than three years here — is that all this strife will cause Steem to self-destruct far more readily than mismanagement by a Justin Sun or a Steem "Old Guard."

I didn't land here because it was "new and exciting," I came here with almost 20 years of participating and contributing to "user generated content for rewards" sites, and even in my very first intro post, I observed that it was highly likely that Steemit (as we called it back then...) would FAIL due to greed and petty power battles. And now, here we are.

I don't like being told "how to vote," either...

I do put a fair amount of stock in track records, however. They tend to tell us — when we do the research and the proverbial "math" — something about the people we are dealing with. For example, I didn't choose to NOT vote for Donald Trump because of his claimed objectives, I chose to NOT vote for him as a result of assessing his character through 30 years of public records of his dealings, from reading his book "The Art of the Deal" to examining the circumstances of his business dealings, but failed and successful.

Whereas I like some of our "original" top-20 witnesses, and not others... my "problem" is that Justin Sun comes to Steem with a LONG trail of dubious and sketchy dealings behind him that — at least for me — add up to the Steem social content platforms which I really enjoy and like pretty much being erased and replaced by an ocean of gambling dapps. My "Selfish" interests here are about not wanting to see YET ANOTHER content site being replaced by complete garbage AND having to relocate my content ONCE AGAIN and pretty much start from scratch... ONCE AGAIN.

In a sense, it's just a variation on the old *"WalMart vs small town main street." Maybe it makes me an obsolete relic that I prefer Main Street over WalMart... and so be it. My point being, I fear — all other nonsense aside — that Justin sees this as just another blockchain property to be raided and flipped for profit... and even if I don't agree with the "top witnesses," I'm going to stand against that scenario, in my own small way.

And no, I am NOT telling you "how to vote," Dave!

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davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

Hey @denmarkguy, yes its been awhile since we spoke! So thanks for the visit and for your thoughts for sure :)

I appreciate your viewpoint and believe you are taking a reasonable and thoughtful vote. I don't mind that people vote for the current Steem Witnesses, in fact I would say I'm definitely in the minority amongst my friends. Most people see it how you see it (ie we like how the steem ecosystem is, so we don't want JS to come in and change it). I do get that point and would never try to change someone from thinking that way.

I personally see it differently because I didn't like how Steem was run and felt that it wasn't worth it anymore (for me) and I felt it was going to die over time. That's why I quit posting stuff and "caring". I saw too many people that I felt were awesome leave out of disgust, and realized in my mind that things would never change (because of the man behind the curtain that controlled things had no interest in the little guys). I had hope initially that JS might inject money, people, and better governance than what we had.

Of course I have no idea how anything will turn out. With the bad blood now from the way in which everything was handled, anything is possible. And I mean anything.

So I respect how you are voting, and however it turns out I hope that our community will stay together after its all finished. I do hope the best for everyone here, and especially for the cool people that are passionate about what the Steem blockchain represents.

Thanks again for the explanation of how you voted, without "telling me" how to vote. I only wish everyone took that approach, I think the negativity would be a lot less elevated.

Best wishes to you however it turns out @denmarkguy! :)

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davidfar (70) · 5 years ago (edited)

My vote is for you on this post :)
as you also mentioned in your post "I saw firsthand how they didn't give a shit about the little guys." this was one of the reasons why I didn't take any side.
thanks for the information you shared with us! resteeemed

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davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago

Thank you @davidfar :) ... and I'm glad you see the situation from a similar viewpoint. To me they all could learn from the "little guys", we could teach them something if they just figured out how to listen!

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simplymike (67) · 5 years ago (edited)

All I wanna say about it, Dave, is this:
If you still think you need to vote for @abh12345 and @paulag, you might want to reconsider and not vote at all. It just shows you've completely lost touch with what's going on around here.
If you are not aware they stopped their witness a long time ago, then I wonder if you're in a position to vote in an informed way.
If you trust Asher, why not proxy him, then? He has been following up. You clearly haven't ...

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davemccoy (63) · 5 years ago (edited)

I vote for them because I respect them, same as with Danielsaori.

I may not be in touch with who the current witnesses are, but I feel I am capable of seeing the bigger picture.

You may disagree and of course that is your right. I'm not trying to change your vote.

I do trust Asher as a person, but I feel confident that I can cast my vote based on the issues that are important to me.

You seem to be a little shitty at the end @simplymike, I hope that I haven't offended you in any way. I was not referring to you as a Steem Nazi, we have never even talked about this issue.

And one last set of questions regarding the fact you derogatorily state that I am not following up: Who is the person that all these witnesses get voted in by (in the past)? What is his name? What does he stand for? Why is he better than Justin Sun?

Without the answers to those, how can anyone have a serious discussion?

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soluce07 (60) · 5 years ago

And if you're right!

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