I want to preface this by saying this isn't FUD. This is an effort to see a weakness in the system and to collaborate a solution by the most brilliant minds on here to protect the blockchain we've all come to cherish. This potential breach was given to me by @sempervideo who's real life job is to find IT breaches. He's a white hat hacker in a way who's job is to find flaws in the system in order to proactively defend from an attack, breach, etc.
If an illegal photo can be saved on the blockchain forever, including bitcoin, what are the options to remove it or censor it? I know we pride ourselves in having a censor resistant platform, but that's a double edged sword when illegal content is saved on the immutable blockchain.
Kindly resteem and get all the brilliant minds together to find a solution. Otherwise, this could jeopardize the future of steem and all it's endeavours. I believe remaining silent about this or just turning a cold shoulder to it will result in an even bigger problem coming back to bite us in the future. So while it's here and while we're still standing, let's be proactive before it's too late. We can find a solution and act now before a whole lot of dung hits the fan.
As I admit in the video, I'm not a tech genius and far from it. This is just what was put forth to me and I hope that each of you will do your part in either brainstorming a solution or at least resteeming this so it can get to the hands/eyes of someone who can present a solution or solutions.
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A form of a concensus and then forking it will solve things.
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Hopefully that fork happens sooner rather than later :)
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Let's hope a concensus will be reached soon, before the first perverts torpedo "our" blockchain. Thinking of it, now the cat is out of the hat, we don't need to wait for perverts. A rival blockchain could save illegal content on the steem-blockchain just to get rid of it.
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This is a major issue that needs to be addressed asap for the survival of dtube. I'm not going to lie, with my background in the movie industry. This was the FIRST thing that crossed my mind when I saw Dtube. Illegal content needs to be regulated (I hate that word, but it a must)
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I believe DTube can find a way around it - what is more at risk is the entire steem blockchain. DTube is decentralized and can actually block and track source videos and give them to local authorities. For pictures saved on the steem blockchain - how can that be removed? I hope someone would address it as well.
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I agree and always wondered how this could be prevented. One thing I learned about steemit community is that it is pretty proactive with stuff like this. If a user posted illicit images it would be flagged super fast. The problem is that even if it is flagged it can still be seen. Perhaps a hard fork will allow permanent deletion of images, not text.
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Hmm...I'm way new here so I have no idea what that would look like. But if it's a solution to be proactive, I'd support it.
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One of the problems is that every one has to "stay positive" and that the Cheerleaders don't want to hear about the pitfalls that are very real. I've eluded to these problems in a published post and in comments but no one wanted to hear it, or spend any time discussing it.
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Can you link your post?
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Here ya go: https://steemit.com/dtube/@onnovocks/thoughts-on-dtube-vs-youtube-and-copyright-considerations-for-dtube-uploaders
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thanks a lot
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I agree, it's just a matter of time before Hollywood comes looking for it's rights to more than 100 full movies here on DTube and we know what happens: they don't confiscate the stolen material, they confiscate the entire Hard Drive regardless of what else is stored on it.
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I believe DTube can actually block that or at least give the source location to the authorities. In that case, only whoever is sourcing these copyright material will be confiscated and not dtube's storage files :) hopefully.
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That is not how they have done it in the past; the FBI will move in and confiscate the entire drive containing the offending material. If your family pictures happen to be stored on the same drive, you can kiss them good bye. There are plenty of cases to study on this matter when they shut down web sites in the past. Kim Dotcom ring a bell? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom
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I understand that, but if there were something illegal or copyright, DTube can actually take it off the servers. Only the hashes would be left on the blockchain, but the actual video files can be disconnected. If someone is still sourcing it, then it'll be their house that will get raided and their files, not DTube and their storage.
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I'm afraid you don't get it. The authorities don't care if someone claims they wiped it; if it was on there once they can raid it, shut it down, confiscate it, and make sure it's gone. Stop using logic when dealing with an entity that needs a 74,800 page tax law to have an income. That entity does what ever it wants. If you read the Dotcom case; he got nailed for what OTHER people published. I'm not saying this will happen to DTube, but history teaches us that it is a possibility.
Every uploader has to consider that what ever they publish is subject to at least 3 sets of laws at any given moment. Greetings!
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I have to disagree and say this is the definition of FUD. Ned has already discussed this issue on The Crypto Show which can be found here. You can skip ahead to roughly the 39 minute mark to hear it addressed by @ned himself.
TL;DR Steem blockchain is simply plain text and does not hold any type of photos. Individual interfaces (D.Tube, Steepshot, etc) can control their interface to remove content being distributed on their interface.
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You got a 33.33% upvote from @dlivepromoter courtesy of @patrickulrich!
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I heard about what was found on the Bitcoin blockchain. I never considered the consequence in this way to be honest. You're right, if it's immutable, then the only alternative would be to take the entire thing down! Including all the steem!! What that would do to the price of Steem and people's holdings.
This could also be an avenue of attack from a hostile actor. I hope they do find a way around this.
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I know @dtube has a way around it that can be circumvented, however with steem - I still haven't heard anyone with a plausible solution. Have you heard of what they'll be doing with the bitcoin blockchain and how to hide/take down that kind of content? Price hasn't reflected the dangers so it still standing.
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Thank you for making this video, this is my thought on how this can be dealt with:
Give witnesses option to delete ILEGAL videos(not any other) or to give them option to flag those ilegal videos and send them to main people behind Steemit (who I think should have "master" profile) So they can delete those videos.
Also I´ve noticed that there are people who do upload full movies to DTube
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Thanks brotha. Videos can actually be taken down and if there's someone still keeping the video on a private IPFS that can be reported to authorities and instead of all of @dtube being taken down, they can deal with the person who is sourcing the illegal upload. So for videos, it'll be okay. At least from my understanding - but for steem and pictures, I'm not entirely sure. I hope someone with more extensive knowledge can give a clear-cut answer/solution to this.
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Well from where I sit (human behavior and psychology) there are a few realities that should be considered before jumping into a predetermined solution paradigm (like censorship).
Just because you outlaw murder or smoking pot does not mean that people will stop doing either. Likewise with child porn, its already illegal and low and behold,,, there it is.
The focus should be on $$$$$ or "incentive" to produce such content. Well the way you do that is to make it ILLEGAL to PAY FOR or RECIEVE PAYMENT FOR child porn (or whatever moral construct that society has a problem with).
Many might not like this solution, but it would take (keep) the financial incentives away from the content providers. This is an issue for Steemians as any "upvote" on such content would be "payment".... I like giving the witnesses the "power" to close any account that either recieved upvotes or gave upvotes on any such content..
My underlying point is that neither BitCoin nor Steemit should be considered "illegal" (to download or whatever) just because it contains content considered immoral.
Unfortunately the current laws are not written with psychological reality as a consideration. They are mostly written to give broad power to the State.
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These are all very good points. Thanks for sharing!
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Good vid @dnews, I've seen this question asked a lot and no real answer as of yet. But yes I think its super important that we get this resolved and soon. It's a hard question to answer and I'm sure that there is no 1 correct way of going about it. I think its going to take a lot of effort and a lot of creative minds working together, a huge team which at this point doesn't really exist or can't be funded.
Resteemed @dnews.
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Yeah I just can't find an answer to it as well. From my understanding, I know that DTube can block video content since video is not stored directly to the blockchain, the source can ultimately be tracked down and taken down. However with photo/text stored directly to the blockchain....how can that be removed? Hmm...we'll need to keep searching for answers :) and hope that there is proactive work being done to avoid such a calamity.
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OK, how about this one... What if a huge whale posted something like that...like dtube (hypothetical) and upvoted themselves. I'm not sure how the flagging really works but would it be hidden if thousands of minnows flag it? Even though they're wallet is so small?
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Yeah you could hide it. The thing is it would still be viewable :)
I'm sure enough people have seen this and a solution can be found! We have faith in you people!
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fud fud fud. You bring up some really good points about the longevity of the steem blockchain. Hope ppl have plan B and C prepared
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Plan B for butter and plan C for cup, butter-cup-face.
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Maybe if we had an altruistic system like the bitcoin mining system where certain { Scannners} people could protect this fragile ecosystem and stop people from abusing this new technology? These people would be rewarded in Steem power ???? Just a theory ...
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That's a good thought actually. Have certain things that are automatically blocked by witnesses?
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I'm troubled to hear this and the potential problems it could pose to the Steemit Blockchain. I've seen Google and Apple go after Gab and Minds as a result of trolls posting or creating chaos on their platforms. The last thing I'd want to see is Steemit or Dtube getting shunned and ostracized by the tech giants or have the blockchain made into a shadowy nefarious realm that people will fear and loathe.
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Indeed resteemed
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This is also a threat to Dtube. https://imgur.com/gallery/LJAeNVY
The TDLR: is a bill written under the guise of stopping sex trafficking, has stripped away the protection of section 230 of the Communications act of 1934 which means companies that run web services will soon be responsible for the actions of their users, even if they are unaware of them, to the point of criminal charges that could result in up to 25 years in prison. This seems possibly to apply retroactively, meaning websites could be punished for stuff their users did, before this became a law.
Reddit started a massive purge of communities that revolve around pretty much anything that can end up being criminal. Guns, drugs, tobacco and alcohol advice on these topics, subreddits dedicated to talking about criminal activities (real or not) etc. Details can be seen here www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/863xcj/new_addition_to_sitewide_rules_regarding_the_use/ The outrage in the community is extensive.
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Another problem is that some prosecutors who have nothing better to do with their time (and our tax money) are accusing any photos of kids of being "child porn." A guy in Italy was arrested and convicted of taking pictures of kids on the beach wearing bathing suits. He had to go all the way to the supreme court to get his conviction overturned.
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Great points here @dnews. After doing some research on my own it definitely seems that text-based photos would be the main issue here. If blockchain technology is equivalent to the internet, that would mean that it's also vulnerable to the darker aspects of life. As with the internet, anyone could intentionally or unintentionally stumble upon illegal information. This doesn't necessary mean that the internet is infected nor does it mean that by removing this content it ensures that the problem has been resolved (as it could have easily been re-uploaded elsewhere). IMO, this is an issue that we should find answers to but I think we may need more time to pass to truly understand how it would/could impact us as an individual/community.
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Great stuff to think about! Before it all collapses, a buddy and I went on a shopping spree with all our virtual cash. Check out the bling!
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LOL
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