— SteemCN

artopium (66) · 7 years ago (edited)

People are not ruining anything. They are only using Steemit in the best way possible in their own best interests. This is called capitalism and it's the fundamental model upon which Steemit is built. Perhaps in a hard fork there will be considerations for other models. But right now, Steemit is capitalistic.

Hence the need for curation rewards. Curations are strictly a capitalistic concept in which greed for the curation is supposed to drive people to upvote "quality." Unfortunately, upvoting your own post and even more so your own comment provides a much higher profit than a curation. So while greed is a motivating factor, and curation rewards are less than author rewards, no one has the monetary incentive to vote other's content, except maybe whales. So that leaves the quality of Steemit in the hands of an elite few. Just like anything else run under a capitalistic model.

$17.51

https://steemit.com/steem/@lexiconical/code-is-law-only-when-i-want-otherwise-it-s-abuse-the-shaming-syndicate-of-steemit-our-own-brand-of-sjws-and-social-repression

lexiconical (72) · 7 years ago

Thank you. At least someone gets the problem.

Code is law.

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ronel (61) · 7 years ago

Steemit is decentralized but money makes it centralized. What if a multi-billionaire joins steemit, buys 1 billion steem and powered it up? What will happen? It actually depends on the multi-billionaire's purpose. He can do what he wants (i'm referring to a male multi-billionaire). Money can turn decentralized to centralized or vice-versa. Money is infinite numbers. It has no end. It can circulate the entire universe. Even our minds are controlled by money. This is crazy!

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5 votes

factionless (27) · 7 years ago

Doesn't seem all that different than billionaires controlling mainstream media if they can pay to have their opinions pushed to the top.

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ronel (61) · 7 years ago

Yep.
Even bitcoin as we know is a decentralized peer to peer that we transact but the fees are getting higher and higher. Its like paying the middlemen. Bitcoin is now under control. Its already in prison, guarded by banks and financial institutions.

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iwanttruth (43) · 7 years ago

hehe mind....blown. capita-what???

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ronel (61) · 7 years ago

capita?

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ultravioletmag (73) · 7 years ago (edited)

exactly all this stuff is only as decentralised a the people who are using it.

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ronel (61) · 7 years ago

yeah, decentralized people but sometimes we're also scattered people, not united

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libertyranger (59) · 7 years ago

That is all but taking place now with the Current batch of Whales. The majority of them are like a cliche in high school that cheer each other at the football game on Friday night and bully the new kid in the class room because his hair cut is different or he wears funny clothes.

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ronel (61) · 7 years ago

Yep!
Nothing different actually to elites controlling and playing games with the dregs.

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gothika47 (48) · 7 years ago

no one has the monetary incentive to vote other's content, except maybe whales.

Its not only that. As a new user i feel my vote is actually worth nothing. Also the bots seem to be a part of the system since i see them in almost every post i check.

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6 votes

lexiconical (72) · 7 years ago

" As a new user i feel my vote is actually worth nothing."

This is exactly as it should be.

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artopium (66) · 7 years ago

That's the most capitalistic part about Steemit. In a capitalistic model, One needs capital investment to start a venture. The more you invest, the more your upvote will be. That's why everything on the blockchain is called a "vest". You can invest money directly to get that vote power now, or you can invest your time and energy and build your way up.

From what I've gathered so far, the bots act like auto brokers for placing your content in a stock market like bid for the curation reward. They are actually pretty useful, especially if your only capital investment is like $500 USD or so, and you want to make that start earning something right away. They can also be abused, as @berniesanders and others have been pointing out. Unfortunately, if you don't have much to invest in Steemit, whether that be money, or lots professional style content, then Steemit is not a place that will work well for you; or at least that's the hope. In truth, people have found lots of ways to make Steemit work for them without any initial investment or providing any quality content. Many whales fear this is devaluing Steem, and hence hurting their capital investments.

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4 votes

cathi-xx (65) · 7 years ago (edited)

Many of the biggest sp holders on Steemit started with nothing. They were made dolphins by whales, in the early months, when there were far less users. Some of them created good content and some of them didn't. Some of them created schemes that purported to support minnows, but they basically embezzled by up voting themselves with the borrowed power. (This was before delegation was implemented.) My point here is that many of them invested less time and effort than people with a fraction of their sp.

Most cryptos are mined by miners who all have the same hash rate (difficulty), but here mining is done by creating content and everyone's hash rate is different. Quality of content is supposed to equal less difficulty, but the social aspect of Steemit means that this is not always the case.

The quality of content only matters in so far that it draws people in, so that the site becomes a social media hub, so the level of shit-posting is actually irrelevant as long as there are sufficient quality posts to draw people in and keep them here. Think about it, FB is a successful site and it's full of people talking crap and posting crap.

The only way to improve Steemit is to increase the number of dolphins so that there is more competition for the established dolphins, in particular the ones who shit-post.

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awakeningartist (66) · 7 years ago (edited)

This is all i care for not the money next to it but if not for the money next to it its of no value these days. I am not gonna crib anymore about how shitty its has gotten around here. Ill figure out a way to stop this, let me know if you guys are in this with me?

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revisesociology (73) · 7 years ago

I'm running a bit low on SP but that deserved a 100% upvote (for what it's worth). Very clearly put, without giving away whether you're pro or anti-capitalist.

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artopium (66) · 7 years ago

Thanks. I'm thinking of writing on article titled "A Capatilistic Model On A Decentralized Platform". Steemit actually represents an incredibly interesting experiment in capitalism, something that's never been done before: the monetization of your attention. Does it create "quality"? That is left to be seen. But what's fascinating is that capitalism in its purest and most idealistic form is inherently decentralized with the concept of a "free market". Any regulation of this market takes us further away from the ideal. But you're right. I'm trying very hard not to be biased. I'm only pointing out what it is. Not what it should be.

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9 votes

automan (25) · 7 years ago

The media knows viewer attention is currency too. That's why we all see headlines that turn your stomach, they do not care. It's all about money, advertising and that's it. The news died a long time ago.

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farq (54) · 7 years ago

i wrote an article in a similar vein a few days ago - not so much the capitalism metaphor, but more of steemit as a metaphor for the world economy as a whole.

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revisesociology (73) · 7 years ago

It is fascinating, to say the least. As a sociologist my initial task is to figure out what the best way to collect data is, to answer these questions - the database and the various reports are an obvious starting point, but not enough! I'd love to have the time to interview/ survey some of the people with dead accounts - the 90% in other words.

I think BS above has a point, but I really don't want to wade into that particular war.

On current evidence I'm leaning towards the idea that linear rewards and unregulated self-voting are terrible foundation-principles!

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errante (25) · 7 years ago

Steemit hasntcreated shit. This is just a ponzy scheme, dont try to call it anything other than that.

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nicktravers (40) · 7 years ago

This not Capitalism, this is Anarchy. And as such, is a fascinating experiment in human organisation.

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dcwordofmouth (43) · 7 years ago

good answer. very interesting discussion.

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canadianmgtow (41) · 7 years ago

Uhm, that would be a big NO. What Steem is is Crony Capitalism. A few poweful voters (whales), upvote posts that are usually CRAP. For this to be TRUE capitalism, each vote would be worth exactly the same. A post getting 100 individual votes is more valuable than a post that gets one vote from one whale. The emphasis should be on content creators. Without content, you just end up with what quite honestly feels like a giant ponzi scheme.

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johano (59) · 7 years ago

You pegged it. I am looking forward reading your article. I once made a post about why we have self-voting option. Yes because it is how it works in real life too. So, is there no solution to this problem?

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skypilot (70) · 7 years ago

I cannot express how pleased I am to hear you say these things. I have been trying for ages to slowly build an audience with serious unique content and it is unfortunate that no matter what the platform, there will always be those whose only "art" is gaming the system. Great comments, following you now!

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ulisesfl17 (65) · 7 years ago

The essential purpose and for which a social network of this type is created is to share any amount of knowledge and own experiences to grow personally, socially, economically and culturally; Actually it seems a very original and beautiful project. It is unfortunate that it is surrounded by capitalism, an imposing and aggressive system whose overall purpose is greedy profit and enrichment at whatever cost.
On the other hand, I think it is very satisfying to value an article of good quality, because that act of issuing a value judgment on the work of another person, allows healthy and respectful criticism to make us grow more and more. I share your criteria and position. I am new to the steemit community.

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lexiconical (72) · 7 years ago

"The essential purpose and for which a social network of this type is created is to share any amount of knowledge and own experiences to grow personally, socially, economically and culturally; Actually it seems a very original and beautiful project. It is unfortunate that it is surrounded by capitalism, an imposing and aggressive system whose overall purpose is greedy profit and enrichment at whatever cost."

So, you must be the creator of Steem, huh, since you know what it was made for?

Try earning your place here before opening your mouth with grandiose, unsupported statements.

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holybranches (60) · 7 years ago

On reading your opening line, my brain twitched and tells me "decentralization" and "capitalism" shouldn't be found married together in one concept.

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artopium (66) · 7 years ago

A free market under the fundamental principles of capitalism would ideally not be centralized.

In economics, a free market is an idealized system in which the prices for goods and services are determined by the open market and consumers, in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_market

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agentzero (55) · 7 years ago

I dont know what happening right now

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mishegas (43) · 7 years ago (edited)

"The steemit system is beautiful, but people are ruining it :/"
Everything people touch they ruin
Those who started it, with the most to lose better brush up real quick on history. Modern will do. Although ancient will show you just the same story.

Regimes always become corrupted and are either destroyed from within like the Shah in Iran, Qadaffi. Or without, Saddam Hussein.

Image: The NewYorker

Steemit is not immune from any influence of evil

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4 votes

canadianmgtow (41) · 7 years ago

They could fix it by making each vote have the same power. Right now it is just Crony Capitalism.

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lexiconical (72) · 7 years ago

Rofl. Yeah, fix it by destroying the entire platform and all investor cash. Great idea.

They should fix Bitcoin by making every wallet balance the same!!@#!!@#!

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canadianmgtow (41) · 7 years ago

The least you could do is upvote my comment with your massive steem power. That is when you are not voting for yourself or garbage content of your friends.

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nickdavison (54) · 7 years ago (edited)

That would make the system a lot fairer and solve 99% of the problems. Steem Savings interest could be tweeked to incentivize investment that way instead.

Doubt it will ever happen though.

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lexiconical (72) · 7 years ago

"That would make the system a lot fairer and solve 99% of the problems."

How exactly is it fair to give someone with $1 million in stake the same vote as someone with $0 in stake?

Oh, right, it's completely fucking not.

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ultravioletmag (73) · 7 years ago

Well you would be investing with the incentive steem goes up in value I assume in this model.

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nickdavison (54) · 7 years ago (edited)

@lexiconical Voting would not be stake related, and rewards from stake investment would come from interest. So the reward pool would be distributed between those with a large investment (via interest), and those who produced quality content, not people upvoting their own posts.

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introvertspeaks (51) · 7 years ago

Interesting take!

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phedizzle (55) · 7 years ago

exactly. its so disheartening

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lexiconical (72) · 7 years ago

Exactly not. Fucking awful idea.

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mishegas (43) · 7 years ago

Maxim of British business has always been "If you can't build a fiddle into it, it's not worth doing."

In #Steemit's case the fiddle (one of many corrupting the platform) is LEVERAGE

Nobody ever got rich quick without

Leverage
Avoiding tax

LEVERAGE has been engineered into the business plan. For Steemians in developing countries it can be the difference of breaking free from a lifetime of uncertainty about poverty.

For the few at the top of the pyramid (because that's what Steem is) their leveraged returns could keep them in a lifestyle of idleness and luxury.
Provided they realise the IRS know everything about them, so they better have a smart CPA or the US Marshals will be ringing their bell

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lexiconical (72) · 7 years ago

This comment is mostly nonsense.

Why you assume all Steemit users are dodging taxes is anyone's guess.

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junfadriquela (37) · 7 years ago

You are totally right. No one is immune for any evil desires.

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kusatsuri (53) · 7 years ago

I wouldn't say you are a dumb artist! You just said the truth!
A lot of posts without even a real content are overrated... sadly!
Steemit is really gorgeous but all the unhealthy greed of some people is destroying it little by little...

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5 votes

vellzz (53) · 7 years ago

That is humanity for you my friend, no matter how beautiful something is or how precious/valuable something gets, humans tend to be greedy making such things lose its value. It saddens me to see steem/sbd being really undervalued which these greedy guys play a big role in the weakness of steem/sbd. This wasn’t the true intention of this platform. I pray may this nonsense be resolved. We never appreciate what we have till we lose it.

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charliefreak1 (47) · 7 years ago

I have returned here from a near year off and I was wondering why I was getting NO notice at all....jajaja I get it now, sad.

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3 votes

awakeningartist (66) · 7 years ago (edited)

yup! that happened to me for a month. keep posting each day no matter the payout. Don't care about how many people are looking at it. Just focus on improving your posts and building a circle of your own.Interact with new minows they make really amazing posts.

let me resteem your best post , good luck!

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sisygoboom (64) · 7 years ago

Have $0.00 worth of notice, on me :)

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3 votes

mishegas (43) · 7 years ago

Welcome back
Splash the cash
My 1 cent worth too

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libertyranger (59) · 7 years ago

I flag the ass kissers in my reply line. I find that behavior reprehensible. It's vote fishing and with me will never end well. And for this comment I am not looking for an upvote or a flag. Just my 2 steems worth in agreement with @awakeningartist 's comment here.

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denislyons (39) · 7 years ago

that's just how Human beings are, They always look for the loophole and take advantage of it.. Sad

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jerzy (27) · 7 years ago

After a while centralization occurs. It happens in the form of mining pools of POW-based cryptocurrencies. With respect to steem it occurred in the form of followers of whales following them not for the content, but purely out of greed.

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danthundercloud (51) · 7 years ago

are you talking about those people who have a lot of sp and self vote their own post and comments up to $10.00 or more. then comment several times on the same post. each time up voting each comment?
like a certain user who has commented on this post several times and upvoted themselves?

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lexiconical (72) · 7 years ago

Users like this are forcing more and more people to this every day:

Abuse 3.png

Ned Self Vote 6k.png

Transisto Hypo 3.png

Transisto Hypo.png

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cathi-xx (65) · 7 years ago

The seriously tragic thing is that arse kissing works!

There is a particular dolphin who, when new, used to beg and post his links in people's wallets and kiss ass in the comment section of anyone with a few thousands sp. It worked for him he was soon being voted large. Of course, it maybe that his posts are actually good! I can't stand sycophants, so never looked.

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ambienthex (60) · 7 years ago (edited)

A Whale is a Steem user who has a lot of Steem power and influence on the platform. They can grant big earnings to users or reduce the reputation of steem users who post bad content. Many of them became whales getting into Steem early. Here's a site that has an index of all Steem users and their power and account value levels: https://steemwhales.com

Here's what I consider a Whale on Steem.

Big Whale: Only 25 Steem users have an account value of more than $1,000,000(USD).
Medium Whale: Only 200 Steem users have an account value of more than $100,000 (USD).
Lil Whale: Only 350 steem users have an account value of than $50,000(USD).

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10 votes

shirleyv (27) · 7 years ago

Thanks @ambienthex. That makes understanding it for a complete newbie like me, very easy.

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4 votes

peacefulforest (36) · 7 years ago

At least there is a transparency in the manipulation. I think about some of the trash in crypto world: garbage tokens, failed products and pyramid schemes, they can hide behind things. But when crappy content is upvoted for the sake of profit, you can sort of see and recognize what it happening... I don't know if that is refreshing or sad!

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carlitashaw (60) · 7 years ago

Agree, I've been here for a few years and the content quality has deteriorated greatly, its hard enough to get people interested in consciousness, ecology and environmental issues as it is. People don't like your post these days simply because they think its not worth liking if you have little value in your wallet. Steemit needs to change its system or it will be flooded with bad quality content and put those who have something of value to contribute off contributing at all. Its a meritocracy that claims to be pioneering but its still the same as mainstream society, rewarding the whales only and the minnows stay undiscovered.

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lexiconical (72) · 7 years ago

This place has devolved into an open dumpster fire:

Abuse 3.png

Ned Self Vote 6k.png

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bluedemon (45) · 7 years ago

Thanks, @ambienthex. I really need to know more about steemit. This comment really helped a lot. thanks.

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introvertspeaks (51) · 7 years ago

There are at least 19 more whales much bigger than ranchorelaxo based on the information you've provided---yet none of them has been able to stop the systemic injustice. Smfh

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lexiconical (72) · 7 years ago

That would cost them money. Would you pay for the "privilege" of having to police others?

The game theory of Steemit is so fucked a five-year old would understand the problems.

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introvertspeaks (51) · 7 years ago

That would cost them money.

Let us inspect this closely. What do you mean by cost them money?

You mean it will cost their Steem Power to lower from 10SP to 5SP?

Would you pay for the "privilege" of having to police others?

If you try to take a look at my wallet, I'm sure you could see and it's no secret that I am just another minnow here. How then would I be able to pay such a privilege you're talking about?

Second, if I do have the enough Steem Power required--I would no longer be complaining about it here and will just walk the talk anyway.

Third, if berniesanders has somehow able to raise an awareness by throwing out his lesser-than flags at the abusive subject--why others couldn't? This has been a mystery to me.

The system is doomed anyway--so yeah let's go celebrate the party while we still can. After all EOS is just months away and it is expected that there will be some worthy rival(s) to emerge on top the EOS chain that are more stable and well thought-out and have leaned a hard lesson from the @steem experiment.

Everipedia will be the first of its kind--many will follow for sure that's almost a guaranteed. If there will be no serious fix implemented on how the distribution of reward is being done here--than good luck because a new wave of blockchain-based social media rivalry is about to explode.

I don't have Steem Power anyway and the plan to power-up is no longer in my book--so I ask myself why would I care preserving this platform anyway.

I am still thankful to @steemit though--it paved the way for my unexpected entry into the crazy, but exciting realm of cryptocurrency and the rest is history!

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swpnl7 (39) · 7 years ago

For most of the people, Money is the first thing which attracts them here & Too much greed for money can destroy this community & system.
For me also when I was new here money was the thing that attracted me toward this platform, but after some days I got understand that this is no place for "get-rich-quick" & in these days I started to enjoy blogging. Doing blogging just don't get you money, you get tremendous of knowledge also.

So, Let's stay to the basics curate & upvote that content which is good & not to upvote a post just because a post is posted by a person with high steem power.

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3 votes

canadianmgtow (41) · 7 years ago

Too many idiots upvoting and commenting on garbage posts upvoted by whales in the hopes that they get 'blessed' and upvoted.

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brice-koeniguer (25) · 7 years ago

STEEG MEOW !

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rogeer (56) · 7 years ago

Que :O

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skcamper (58) · 7 years ago

I make nothing on my posts at all. So it isn't cool for ppl to do that. As it is, I'm about to leave Steemit, as I guess I have nothing of interest to post about.

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lexiconical (72) · 7 years ago

"I make nothing on my posts at all."

Irrelevant data point.

"So it isn't cool for ppl to do that."

Logic/citation needed.

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canadianmgtow (41) · 7 years ago

I've been here half a year, and the upvote I gave registered as $0.01 for the first time ever. Sheesh.

I agree with what you say. I am personally seeing yet another cryptocurrency post show up in the top 3 of the HOT category.

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graceelecte (32) · 7 years ago

🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

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