Why is the Steem Price Low? How Do We Fix It?

pfunk (72) · 6 years ago (edited)

What I see is an attempt to scapegoat something you don't like for personal reasons, downvotes, to try to explain the declining market price of STEEM.

The market price is a very complex issue and I really can't believe that you believe downvoting is the primary reason for the market decline. I'd like to give you the benefit of the doubt because you're obviously unqualified to understand market basics, but it's still obvious to anyone paying attention just to the Steem world that downvoting is not the cause of STEEM market price decline.

Your populist appeal to remove downvotes from Steem, which would be ruinous, is an appeal to defend yourself from the rational reactions to your own shortcomings. I'm downvoting this post as it is my right as a Steem stakeholder to remove rewards and trending ranking to posts I don't think are deserving of either.

$30.10

tuck-fheman (74) · 6 years ago

My crack team have determined it was the price of Bitcoin going down that pushed all other crypto's down. No more easy market manipulation by exchanges. That really hurt our fake meteoric rise, bringing us back towards reality. So, my crack team has determined that prices are exactly where they should be if not for a market manipulation.

Hey Jerry, you ever do any market manipulation?

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8 votes

fishandchips (43) · 6 years ago

Hey @jerrybanfield I need an account for my fishfriend. Where do I send the $50 to?

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rohitrajput (58) · 6 years ago (edited)

You can create account for less than 50$ dont't send any money to this scammer. You can use annosteem for that.

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valth (68) · 6 years ago

I'm pretty sure @fishandchips was being sarcastic :P

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fishandchips (43) · 6 years ago (edited)

You got it right, I was messing around. I know annonsteem and blocktrades offer instant account creation services at a fair price.

I would never send Jerry a single satoshi. If I would want to support a scammer I would donate to a church instead.

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tonygreene113 (59) · 6 years ago

I believe they were being sarcastic.

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meno (73) · 6 years ago

Your populist appeal to remove downvotes from Steem, which would be ruinous, is an appeal to defend yourself from the rational reactions to your own shortcomings.

That's truth directed to the yugular right there.

If the words populist appeal does not raise a red flag on people's mind, then I don't know if we will ever learn from the lessons of history after all.

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7 votes

martie7 (62) · 6 years ago

Jerry... ouch... where your big money under your post? You so long write this post to get nothing...

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cryptkeeper17 (64) · 6 years ago (edited)

Way to stand up for the little guy, that being centralized everything, that picks and chooses how you live your life. This graphic is so laughably left wing propaganda I don't know where to start. Populism is a leftist label given to those people that want to slow the amount government is running their lives day to day. Simple. So to follow this logic would imply that the removal of any central authority's power of any kind is due to racism toward the scapegoats of the entity? We (meaning I have no idea who you are talking about because people on an individual basis learn at their own speeds based on their individual interests and life experiences, I do not learn everything you learn and you do not learn everything I learn, all cognition is not a to b then it has to be c, in a vacuum like you present it here). To imply this is to assume any cuts of any kind to central government is done out of racism, or a conspired effort to hold classes of people down? Really? I have seen some of your statement on a lot of things, they are very well thought out, virtually always but this one unfortunately falls short. I should have more often voiced my agreement in what you are saying more often, like 90-95% of the time you have a very coherent and solid basis of facts. I could site my favorite "right wing nut bag" authors with a similar flow chart but that would be equally a fool's errand.

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meno (73) · 6 years ago

I think you missed my point completely, but that's completely OK. I'm neither left wing, right wing. A few years ago I walked away from the magical bird.

The graph (not mine) was simply shared as a visual representation of the psychology at play here. Not an actual representation with the dotted i's and crossed t's as you are assuming I meant.

What Jerry has effectively done here is appeal to the populus, to the little guy, to the tiny account that can't seem to get ahead on the platform, telling those accounts he knows the answer, he knows the reason.

ITS THE FLAGS

Then he pivots, directs the blame towards the witnesses and stake holders who want to keep the flags as the culprits painting them all with a broad brush.

You may not see it this way, and in this sense we can agree to disagree. I won't start citing titles and diplomas to back claims, they either stand on their own or they fall flat in pools of stupidity.

So to be clear about my position.-

Jerry is using his anecdotal evidence to call for a change on the platform that would remove the ability for the participants of the platform to police the community.

To say he has been flagged because of jealousy, because he makes too much, or anything of the sort is to ignore the evidence. You may choose to ignore it, your choice.

I think you made some political assumptions about me, and this may be because you are not aware of the dominating anarchist stance of most users of this platform, thus you balled me up with some people you've normally interacted with. I personally don't play ball on that field.

So, ignore the specifics of the chart for a second and attempt to grasp my intention within the context of my reply.

Populism mixed with escape goating is a recipe for disaster.

$3.05

cryptkeeper17 (64) · 6 years ago (edited)

Yeah I guess, I did. Oh well, your explanation nails it right on. That was actually why I was a little surprised you went the political route to explain that, but yes, anger the natives, get out the pitchforks (so to speak of course, lol) and blame 'downvoting.' I try to refrain from arguing politics because yes "the magic bird" is a losing proposition. The more local the argument to the heart of the matter and solution, the less need for political infusion. Very well put, no hard feelings I hope, I try not to peg anyone on an uncensored platform like this, because too often I find I am nowhere close. BTW this new pic sure takes heated conversation down quickly, lol.

meno (73) · 6 years ago

Everything is well brother!

kirkins (66) · 6 years ago

Seems to me most of the anger is aimed at Jerry here.

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retiredinsamar (56) · 6 years ago (edited)

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trumanity (60) · 6 years ago

looks like something fell out of the rear end of my cow

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moeknows (60) · 6 years ago

I'm downvoting this post as it is my right as a Steem stakeholder to remove rewards and trending ranking to posts I don't think are deserving of either.

I actually think that if more people had this approach to trending posts, the product on Steemit and other Steem applications would be a lot better, which could possibly have an affect on price. I say this from the perspective of someone who has been flagged a lot. The other day, @whatsup made a post saying we should act like we own it, in regards to Steem. I wholeheartedly agree. Even with my small stake, I consider this my platform, my product. In that mindset, I want to be able to affect the product put forth, in consensus with all other investors. Voting, both up and down, is the way we reach that consensus. It's good for Steem.

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smooth (70) · 6 years ago

I agree and I also think this is a thinly disguised whine post, a category which does not add value to Steem and doesn't deserve rewards (post and whine if you like, but don't expect to be paid for it).

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7 votes

aditya61 (29) · 6 years ago

@smooth yes you are right

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brensonttt (42) · 6 years ago

Jerry Banfield's face does not add value to steem? wtf, man...

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nathankaye (63) · 6 years ago

Thanks for explaining this, mate. For minnow content creators like me, it's good to have someone like yourself deconstruct Jerry's rant so as to dispell fear of Steem diving the way he claims.

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futurethinker (61) · 6 years ago

Oh please nathan, don't listen to this guy. On this is he is very wrong.

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nathankaye (63) · 6 years ago

Hey mate, I was listening to @pfunk and @meno. Are you saying I shouldn’t in this case?

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fitzgibbon (61) · 6 years ago

Why would removal of flags be ruinous? I usually hate @jerrybanfield, but it seems like he has a point here. Don't really know if this point is data-driven, but why do you think Dan Larimer moved to Medium?

Assuming flags will only be given out for purposes beneficial to the larger Steem community is like assuming that every post or comment is only made for good. If you consider Spam or scams to be bad content, you must also consider a portion of flags to be 'bad flags'. Jerry does have a point here; a flag has much more psychological impact compared to an upvote.

Is 'aggrandizement' a good reason to flag?

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pfunk (72) · 6 years ago

Without downvotes the Steem platform's method of reward and stake distribution would not work. Parasitic abusers would consume the host.

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retiredinsamar (56) · 6 years ago

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pfunk (72) · 6 years ago

How?

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retiredinsamar (56) · 6 years ago

What part of the word "abuse" did you not understand? Steemit is flawed, it's that simple. Until Steemit is cleaned up and returned to it's original design and intent, it will never get better. Getting rid of rogue witnesses would be a good start!

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13 votes

pfunk (72) · 6 years ago

Steemit's (the website) original design was a mess. Didn't have wallet pages, didn't have a lot of things. Though there was something in the original design that unfortunately has been changed. A downvote was called a downvote, not erroneously called a flag.

If you mean Steem's original design, it originally was designed and intended to have downvotes.

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retiredinsamar (56) · 6 years ago

What I mean about Steemit's original intent was to be an uncensored blogging platform, not a runaway social network nightmare filled with bots and bullies, where B.S. earns more than thoughtful, creative content. That is what it has become unfortunately. There is nothing wrong with flagging inappropriate comment or hate speech, or anything that would be considered destructive to the platform, but certain (too many) individuals flag for the fun of it, or because it makes them feel bigger than they really are I suppose. Don't want it, don't need it, and am moving on when my power down is complete.

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15 votes

Show 2 more replies

futurethinker (61) · 6 years ago

Without flags bad actors have free game on this platform and that is not good. We will destroy this platform if can not stop bad actors by removing their rewards, we can never censor them though.

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retiredinsamar (56) · 6 years ago

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darth-azrael (67) · 6 years ago

I think the platform would quite possibly be improved by incentivizing flagging high reward posts. The higher the value of a post you flag when you flag it, the higher your curation reward.

trickbrown (44) · 6 years ago

I think that would only incentivize people to flag high reward posts regardless of whether the content is good or bad.

But I think it's in a direction we should start looking.

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darth-azrael (67) · 6 years ago

True, but i would argue that the posts with the highest payouts are rarely worth it, even for the good posts. And flags are inherently limited by steempower just as upvotes are. Sounds like an interesting bot experiment (that would no doubt anger a lot of people). Maybe a cap per post and/or per user per day would help?

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trickbrown (44) · 6 years ago (edited)

As to your first point, that's fair. There is mostly crap floating to the top of the bowl.

I've always felt an upvote should max at $1 or $2. Does it really need to be more than that? If you have more voting power, then you can cast more votes and get more curation that way.

Also, I'd get rid of this 23.13% upvote nonsense. If you want to upvote something, go all in, and upvote it 100%. if you want to get rid of bots, this is the way to go. (Not that I'm necessarily against using bots, but this seems the logical route to go, as it seems to me.)

darth-azrael (67) · 6 years ago

If the upvote had a max value then I would agree with getting rid of the percentage slider. Then people with more steem power would just have more votes. However, without doing that, reducing the percent of your vote is the only way to get more votes and have them count for anything (at least for those of us that have sub $1 votes anyway). As it is, I usually vote at about 33%.

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retiredinsamar (56) · 6 years ago (edited)

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

This post is not mainly about the steem price. It's about that the community has no power here on steemit...

itstime (60) · 6 years ago

But the title though ?

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

Ya I watch the entire 50 minute Video, not sure why he choose that title. Why the steem-price is low is a more complex issue that is for sure. Jerry talk about flaws in the steem-blockchain that makes real and good content producers go away. This way the steem-price will be affected negatively in the long run or steemit might even will be prevented from becoming huge.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago (edited)

Ya I watched the entire 50 minute Video, not sure why he choose that title. Why the steem-price is low is a more complex issue that is for sure. Jerry talk about flaws in the steem-blockchain that makes real and good content producers go away. This way the steem-price will be affected negatively in the long run or steemit might even will be prevented from becoming huge.

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bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

Ya I watched the entire 50 minute Video, not sure why he choose that title.

Maybe for click bait, to get people to visit his post via a lie. So he could put his truth out to the little guy.

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retiredinsamar (56) · 6 years ago

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mrfoot (62) · 6 years ago (edited)

Cmon @pfunk

Everyone knows Bitcoin follows the price of Steem and everything else follows Bitcoin so Jerry being downvoted driving the price of Steem down is crashing the entire market :(

Have you no heart man ?

However, I don't believe breastfeeding on Youtube should be supported on the blockchain.

andrarchy (72) · 6 years ago

LOL

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matt-a (65) · 6 years ago

Agreed, this is junk and not worth much attention. Flagged.

kirkins (66) · 6 years ago

It's junk because you disagree with Jerry or because you don't think he put the effort in?

Seems like he is genuine in his suggestion even if one disagrees.

Your posts seem ok I also like EOS but I don't think it's as much effort as Jerry has put in.

Feel free to downvote all my posts since you have the power.

Seeing the level of anger on comments here is really disappointing.

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mejustandrew (58) · 6 years ago (edited)

I downvoted this post because Jerry makes false assumptions that the price of steem goes down because of the flags. When Steem reached 8 dollars, we still had the flag option, so his assumption is more than wrong. Secondly, it is clear that he wants to remove the flag option because he wants to have his payouts secured, which one more time reveals the greed that jerry has.

I find it useless to put effort into a post that spreads misinformation and demand changing the rules for an entire blockchain only to satisfy one's greed.

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retiredinsamar (56) · 6 years ago

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mejustandrew (58) · 6 years ago

I have stated the honest reason for downvoting that post. It is my right to do it and I believe that it was a wise choice regarding the good of this blockchain.

It is true that I don't like Jerry lately, but this is not the reason for downvoting his post.

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retiredinsamar (56) · 6 years ago (edited)

Would it be fair to say then that people that don't value your opinion, they should downvote your comment, like your's above? That is the problem with this platform, you should not downvote someone because you disagree with their opinion. Can you counter his argument about why the price is suffering in view of Steemit's supposed growth? IMO, it is because the site has become filled with vile, and that simple fact alone will drive investors away. I came to this platform with very high hopes and invested my own money, only to learn that it is nothing more than a big 'ole wasp nest. And I have been stung!

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15 votes

mejustandrew (58) · 6 years ago

I have already did. I don't feel the need to make myself more clear than I already did, and I simply don't see what you don't understand about my comment (and others) above. JB is very greedy and I lost all the respect that I got for him. He showed this numerous times, but I don't have the energy to describe all the examples that I am aware of in this matter.

And secondly, everybody as a Steem Power holder has the right to downvote anything.

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Show 3 more replies

matt-a (65) · 6 years ago

You're preaching to the choir. Many of the people opposing this aren't new, uninvested, or hard working toward the betterment of the Steem platform.

Let me ask you, what would you expect from the populous in response to one of the main contenders that gover and run the entire network going off the rails ranting about sucking his own dick (way more than mentioning passively, which is still fucked) and going on to display that he has absolutely novice knowledge about how this all works?

If you're being delusional, have at it. If you're misinformed and misled, then lets talk.

I don't flag posts indiscriminately. I flag with conviction, which is why I don't flag you, which you seem to have been expecting.

Jerry is making an absolute -FOOL- of the governing body of this chain. Arguing against that exposes ignorance.

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futurethinker (61) · 6 years ago

Short and clear.

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l82matthew182 (54) · 6 years ago

i cant believe he takes forever to explain one thing, hes just over complicating it.

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chekohler (70) · 6 years ago

Lol dude i dont get how he even makes videos and posts so long how do you dance around a point forever like this its insane

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equ1l1br1um (63) · 6 years ago

He is just mad that it's all happening again, he will sell STEEM like he did with Dash (panic sold) and STEEM will make a huge run, like Dash did...

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prameshtyagi (71) · 6 years ago

Don’t u think if we keep flag option then we will never be able to attract that part of business which seek visibility as competitors of that business can use anonymous flaggers to reduce or remove the visibility for which they paid.

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

Yes, yes and yes... there is truth in all this, steem is a setup...

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

so if I am Buzzfeed and issue Buzztokens , my competitors will buy them first and then down-vote my content ?

But they already invested in the content by proxy and why would they set fire to their own money ?

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

Its called greed, what they dont get, those folks on the top, is that with farming the reward pool like they do from day 1, they are killing steem....

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ojsp (25) · 6 years ago

I find this interesting

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martie7 (62) · 6 years ago

Downvotes is bad due to no curator rewards. I think we should start to pay curator's reward for downvotes to make steem clearer!

Or... 25% from upvotes and 15% from flags.

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enforcer48 (68) · 6 years ago

You could always try to join @steemflagrewards and sign up for @dustsweeper. We try to make it worth a few cents for when you flag abuse.

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https://steemit.com/curation/@inertia/now-you-see-that-steem-power-will-always-triumph-because-influence-caps-are-dumb

inertia (73) · 6 years ago

Do we need a direct incentive to flag? No. Just like a restaurant owner has no direct incentive to keep their store clean. They get paid to sell items on their menu. There's a direct incentive for that. There is no item on the menu for "clean the bathroom."

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

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introvertspeaks (51) · 6 years ago (edited)

Downvoting something you don't like in order to uphold your investment is like having Google not allowing ads by Amazon and Apple because it conflicts the interest of Google Home. Very childish and immature business.

How can Steem compete with the incumbent tech behemoths if it is so afraid to see even its own shadow?

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pfunk (72) · 6 years ago

First, I appreciate the critical comment. I don't agree that is a fair analogy though.

My comment and downvote are in response to a post that I see as disingenuously blaming a necessary feature of Steem on the decline of the market price. Bullshit populist appeals like this can be extremely effective if people don't immediately call them out for what they are.

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago (edited)

STEEM Flags have their own issues , will probably have even more complicated issues in future when we have more people coming through the door.
The biggest issues I have seen are people flagging other's post because
a) they don't like what is being said.
b) they disagree with the ideology.

Hopefully as SP gets more distributed this topic resolves itself or maybe mini walled gardens powered by SMTS will solve it.

None of that is to say that there is a correlation between flag abilities and STEEM price . STEEM downvotes are not leaking to Bitcoin / other cryptos , it's a very obvious bear market ( cuz reasons).

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

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matt-a (65) · 6 years ago

Then GTFO.

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

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matt-a (65) · 6 years ago

Too bad your botnet is weak as fuck :-/.

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

lol, it's just a distraction...and a puzzle... attention is priceless...

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

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retiredinsamar (56) · 6 years ago (edited)

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robertgenito (59) · 6 years ago

The only people deceiving are those abusing their downvote power. AHEM.

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

So how many side distractions until this feckless fucknut finally gets around to leave this platform?

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crypto-investor (61) · 6 years ago

I'm with @pfunk ... Many downvotes are needed and benefit the Steem community. This all said, limiting who can downvote might be good. I'd much rather leave downvoting to community approved people (witness approved?) rather than Joe Blow who just bought 100k steem and wants to downvote something.

To some extent, money shouldn't be able to topple the community, and it hasn't but there may be instances where a downvote is questioned. It would be less questioned if there were someone approved and responsible handling it, just so long as there were enough of such people to get the job done, or they could coordinate other accounts to downvote to achieve the intended result.

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mejustandrew (58) · 6 years ago

Well, if you limit who can downvote, you create a centralized system which can not fight well against censorship. And secondly, this does not stop a rich guy to buy himself a million dollars worth of Steem, power up, vote himself as a witness, then downvote whoever he wants :))

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retiredinsamar (56) · 6 years ago (edited)

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

You talks spooky but youre spot on!!!

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kailash1997 (28) · 6 years ago

what steem coin this work

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transisto (74) · 6 years ago (edited)

I think I am one of the biggest proponent of what I call negative curation (flags/downvotes) as a way to improve efficiency of content curation. The main problem with flags is that they don't happen enough and people get startled when they get a big one.

If you'd like to engage in a voice debate about the subject I could make myself available. You can find me on discord.

BTW, In your video you ask us to check back at the trending to see many example of unfair flagging. I looked back at least 5 pages (7 day back) to see any significant amount of flagging. Most post have zero flags, do you think it's normal to have 2000 upvotes on a post and and not get a single downvote?

Have a look for yourself, this UI show flagging of 5$ or more, Nothing is flagged. https://steem-sincerity.dapptools.info/trending-analysis

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17 votes

stokjockey (70) · 6 years ago (edited)

@transisto I would love to see a back and forth with large Steemians like you and @jerrybanfield. I will be here on STEEMIT no matter what other people do and power down and leave. I am just a little guy that tries very hard to put up some content each day. Thank you for what you do and others do to make STEEMIT a great place to be.

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kirkins (66) · 6 years ago

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

Spot on!!! Dont fall asleep...it's a scheme, a setup to lurk us minnows from our money...

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chuuuckie (70) · 6 years ago

Dude, he even sells his upvotes, why not give it to content creators.

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kirkins (66) · 6 years ago

Why not sell his steem and invest in another coin?

Why does having money mean someone owes it to give to you?

Many investors in cryptocurrency to save and invest their money. Not even sure why some of the big whales stay on this site when all they get is hate.

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chuuuckie (70) · 6 years ago

I can't answer that question,

but jerry banfield already faced some of these issues

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

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prameshtyagi (71) · 6 years ago

@transisto : I am completely at loss to understand why my posts are being flagged by upmyvote. All pictures and text is original from my recent travel. It is this reason I have reservations about flag options

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nonameslefttouse (74) · 6 years ago

You seem to be suffering from dissociative identity disorder. Don't worry, I take these illnesses seriously and will not judge you.

I am completely at loss to understand why my posts are being flagged

Remember that day you decided to boost a form of plagiarism to the trending page, then got caught? Do you remember, about twelve hours ago, how you were acting confused about these flags so I reminded you of this incident? That comment is near the bottom of this comment section.

I personally believe once you come to terms with the fact you screwed up that day and stop blocking it from your memory, you'll find yourself feeling a lot less confused about this situation. From there you'll realize you're not actually a victim of anything other than the consequences of your own actions. Then, maybe, you'll stop harassing people and all flags will cease because showing signs of honesty and integrity should never be considered behavior worthy of a flag.

Good luck to you, sir.

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jarvie (70) · 6 years ago

Haha I have no idea about this story I just wanted to say that was an amazingly written response. Poetic even. haha

I'm not speaking for the particular situation which I have zero knowledge but just the life concepts!!

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

You are waking up the users with your clarity using words...thats not allowed...

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transisto (74) · 6 years ago

Why do you ask me? I'm not the one who flagged your post.

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prameshtyagi (71) · 6 years ago

This is in reference to the discussion in the post - I wanted my opinion to come to yr attention as u said u are flag supporter.

I think flagging is a double edged sword if used excessively and unchecked then it may have unwanted results.

There should be an active monitoring to see if posts are being flagged for no obvious violation but revenge or other malicious intentions

Just my opinion

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https://steemit.com/buildawhale/@buildawhale/buildawhale-blacklist-update-special-edition

themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago (edited)

I am so sick of your scams and bullshit Jerry. It has been really depressing to see the community thinks you should be a top 20 witness. I have held off too long to do this, but you are blacklisted from @buildawhale which should trickle down to other bid bots that support my blacklist.

You are an incompetent witness and a plague to the platform. There is a reason you have been banned from most platforms you have been part of (your words not mine).

Seeing you in power down mode gave me great joy thinking there was a remote chance you would take your scams and bullshit elsewhere.

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16 votes

killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

@themarkymark is abusing the system so bad it's been going on for a while now there is even videos on YouTube people talking about how they have been affected by @themarkymark
@steemcleaners need to put a stop to this he's making money by spamming people with @badcontent it's not right at all please put a stop to this it's not good for @steemit @blockchain @steepshot @busy @dlive @dmaina @dtube @zappl

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guiltyparties (70) · 6 years ago

Those people are called "plagiarists", "copy/pasters", "comment farmers", and other types whose main goal is to steal from the reward pool and make it so people like you get less rewards.

nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

Idiot, wake up, those whales are the reward pool farmers.... put skin in the game and see how you will be fucked by them...

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guiltyparties (70) · 6 years ago

Message me on discord about your mack-bot flags bro

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kirkins (66) · 6 years ago

Yep but he is an authority on what is good content because he runs a voting bot.

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

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kirkins (66) · 6 years ago

thanks I'm watching now almost at the end. Great breakdown of past behavior which matches with what he is doing to @JerryBanfield

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

He dun it to he wants to run the blockchain

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

As they say power goes to people's head

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

Yes, Yes Yes, mirror mirror on the wall, @themarkymark is one of the biggest idiots on steem....

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theadmiral0 (53) · 6 years ago

Well said!

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nonameslefttouse (74) · 6 years ago (edited)

I call bullshit.

My last stand up comedy video on Steem was a perfect test case here to demonstrate that censorship is alive and well on Steem.

I clicked the link. It's not censored. You're a liar.

On top of that, most people's early creative efforts are crap which then gets called spam and gets downvoted here.

Most? That's bullshit. You're a liar.

Several big Steem power holders spend the majority of their time "killing accounts" and trying to shut up authors like me that post anything potentially disagreeable.

Several? That's bullshit and you just threw many undeserving individuals under the bus for no reason.

Downvoted Investors + Authors Eventually Sell Everything

I had a post flagged away, a long time ago. Look who's still here. So that's bullshit.

Therefore our best option to communicate how much we disagree is to power down and sell Steem to lower the value as much as possible to motivate those holding on forever to make whatever change is necessary to keep the people happy and to allow those buying in to have more influence per dollar invested.

So let me get this straight. If I don't agree with the rewards you receive for this seemingly scammy and anti-social behavior here today, you'll simply threaten my investment by encouraging others to dump and that won't stop until I meet your demands? And all this just because you're pouting about something and feel like going on a power trip?

The other option is, you'll power down and leave?

Okay. See ya!

^{P.S. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.}

$11.39

tangerinetravels (70) · 6 years ago (edited)

You're a bit of a legend - one of the few people to get a full-power downvote from @freedom.

P.S. I can only imagine what your username would be if you signed up today instead of when you did.

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nonameslefttouse (74) · 6 years ago (edited)

Two posts got hit that day, so two full power freedom flags. I think it was because I used the f-word too many times while writing a joke about the f-word. If I remember correctly, I lost potential rewards(not money), but the situation gave me something to write about, which I did, and did it well, so I made some money that way.

The whole situation was a blessing in disguise. People say these flags are censorship but in reality, when a post gets smashed into smithereens with flags like mine did that day, it's much like a train wreck or a car crash. And what do people do when they see a car crash on the streets? They gawk. People want to know what happened, so they look. Since the posts aren't censored after being flagged, people can then conclude with, "Oh. So that's what happened there. Cool."

A blogger needs attention in order to be successful. That situation put a lot of eyes on my blog, so I carried on and made over 22k SP. Whatever! Thanks for the flags!

I didn't pout, I didn't take it personally, I didn't go attempt to retaliate. There was no need to give up and since I like to prove people wrong, I stuck around and did just that.

I'm glad you brought that up. My real life experience and what Jerry is saying here today, well, night and day difference.

As for the name, I'd probably be NoNamesLeftToUse12 by now.

$0.65

13 votes

silentscreamer (69) · 6 years ago

You got a Freedom flag!? Wow youre sooo lucky.. :) jk

Anyways, on topic at hand. Flags have nothing to do with censorship even in a plutocratic society Steem is.
A "flag" is voicing an opinion. A negative one. Based on your own evaluation of the post, the rewards, its trending placement... etc.

What Jerry is asking for is a safe space ..
Taking away the ability of others to speak with their stake on what they want and do not want on this platform.

Taking away flags is an attack on freedom of speech in its purest form.

And the arguments he makes... Terrible. "The biggest danger for Steem"... "steem would be at 10USD if not for flags"....

No, just no. People that get the most flags are the ones that are doing something really wrong or its just drama. People have a right to have drama fights and everything that comes with it.

nonameslefttouse (74) · 6 years ago

His credibility was thrown out the window the moment he took the irrational sensationalist approach while going as far as choosing to use his this is an emergency tone of voice commonly heard in advertisements selling chemical cleaners designed to rid the world of stains.

Jerry is asking for a pub he can go to where anti-social behavior isn't thrown out the door by a bouncer. He wants to get drunk and start grabbing women's asses without consequence. So let's think about a pub like that for a second. It wouldn't take long before people hear about these gropers, and they'd simply decide to go somewhere else more civilized. Sure, the pub fills up with more people like Jerry out looking for asses to grab, but there aren't any asses left to grab, then those ass grabbers stop going to the pub, and the place goes out of business. If they would have hired a bouncer, they'd still be in business, because there are far more good, wholesome, decent, civilized types walking the earth than there are savage ass grabbers so it's better for business to get rid of that minority and embrace the good ones.

That's the real world right there. This place isn't much different. Jerry obviously needs to get out more.

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silentscreamer (69) · 6 years ago

Hahaha. By putting the bouncer at the door youre censoring their "bottom-grabbing"... And censorship is bad.
Its not only that you arent allowed to have a bouncer at the door, youre not allowed to even say something....
Thats how far this "remove flags" argument goes.

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nonameslefttouse (74) · 6 years ago (edited)

They censored my cigarettes and now I have to go outside to smoke.

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warjar (56) · 6 years ago

Of course downvoting has a strong element of censorship to it.

By flat out hiding posts, or by demotivating contribution, to mention a few.

The second reason would not be all bad if the influence of a downvote was evenly valued to the individual. However, it is not. It's directly linked to ones SP, which mean censorship can be bought and controlled by the few.

Also, with the utilization of bots, the human factor is in many cases removed. So much of what is being downvoted is never even being considered or evaluated by anyone in the first place.

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silentscreamer (69) · 6 years ago (edited)

It really does not. Censorship is institutional. It requires a government or organization effort to suppress speech.
When an individual uses a flag he is using his vote to make a statement on the content in question.

Would you call any negative response to an argument, a claim, content censorship?

No. Flags are pure freedom and need to remain. Removing them takes you in the opposite direction of freedom of speech.

It would be a terrible day if they decide to remove flags. Truly would.
Atm thats the only way the community has towards fighting spam and trash content.

warjar (56) · 6 years ago (edited)

I must disagree. I get the impression that you choose to see the upsides (at least in your opinion) and glance over the negative.

I don't see how censorship have to be institutional. That is how we are used to portray it today, I agree, but it is not a necessity. If we are however to follow that idea, there is already "institutionalized" downvoting within steem today. Groups of individuals that have come together to make a downvote-bot for instance. There is no universally agreed moral that dictates what they today or in the future decide to downvote.

To answer your question "Would you call any negative response to an argument, a claim, content censorship?"

By no means, no. Please do not misunderstand me. I think it is an absolute crucial requirement that critical responses is allowed. However, downvoting is so much more than only that that. Downvoting have multiple functions, and I think it is important to address them individually.

(1). It has a monetary element. It affects the distribution of newly created STEEM. Having the possibility to also vote to take away shares from specific "meaningless" posts could be argued for. This function too can be misused, and who is to determine what is "meaningless" and not. Even then, the persons upvoting "meaningless" content did invest in STEEM and are contributing to the added value. Should they not be able to do with their investment as they see fit? To me this topic is not as clear cut.

(2) Downvoting is actually hiding content. To me that is textbook definition of censorship. No way around it. I can see the argument of making pornographically material and the worse less "in your face", but that is still censorship and again who draws the line of what is acceptable or not? Hiding other individuals content through flagging is not freedom of speech, as you imply. That is censorship. Free speech is when you can leave your own comment with a piece of you mind. I am very much free speech, but not "selective free speech". As of now I lean towards that this element of the downvoting is better off removed.

(3) is the element that you are mainly referring to; the possibility to express once approval or in this case disproval. This I would absolutely like to keep. However, it should be separated from the two above. Those are tools for people who want to boost the value of their own opinion over the next person (referring to SP; a low SP individual have a smaller say than a high SP individual), or to express hatred, revenge or simply censor what they do not like (that one is no. 2. - again, that one is pure censorship).

Let me end with a question back to you. Do you think the current downvote function have no negative side to it, and that it cannot and is not being misused?

$0.36

5 votes

personz (66) · 6 years ago

You bring up good points, these are things I end up discussing quite a lot. They are valid objections in my opinion.

But they are answerable.

1 ) from a rewards point of view, this is the simplest case. until payout, there is a completely open system wide vote on the rewards to be granted to each post, as a proportion of the rewards pool, with each voter enabled to vote to strength according their stake.

Both up and down votes are permitted. No one can take away rewards, as rewards are set at payout time and delivered to the rewarded account. In the seven day window between posting and payout (apart from the last few hours) the voting is open and active.

It is a failing of the main Steem UI steemit.com for setting the tone on both (a) down votes as flags, and (b) encouraging users to see pending rewards as guaranteed rewards, i.e. that their rewards can only track upwards. I've written about both many times and at length before, but that's the gist and is very straight forward.

2 ) posts which have pending or final rewards of zero or less are represented in the steemit.com UI (and all the main others I think) as less visually drawn attention to, collapsed etc. All that is required to show them is a click. An additional click is then needed to show the images.

I don't deny that this has a big effect on whether people choose to read the posts. @valued-customer successfully argued against me that this is not censorship, it is. It is however very very light. There can be scales of censorship and I would not consider this to be Censorship with a capital C. That is the so-called institutional censorship, total blocking of content, deletion, book burning, prohibition from writing or publishing, even imprisonment.

What we have here is better viewed as ordering and prioritization. It is a UI decision that's similar to putting porn in a cover which obscures the cover. This is a real practice. Would you say that this porn is censored? Kind of is the best answer. It's still possible to get, the hurdle is minor. But does it put some people of viewing it at all? Undoubtedly.

Again this is down to the UI. Don't like it? Make your own. The actual blockchain doesn't do this, or any form of censorship. It's important to make that distinction. It can't be more important.

3 ) this to be is a red herring. We can't peer inside people's minds to gauge their motivation. We stick to the facts and assume nothing.

Do you think the current downvote function have no negative side to it, and that it cannot and is not being misused?

The negative side is that if someone with a lot of SP want to remove your rewards they can. The balance is that you can buy stake to counteract that yourself. If you can't afford it, you can appeal to other large stakeholders you may be able to go by social means to embarrass them or enlist some people to counter it.

That's just from a practical point of view though. Systematically this is the hard reality of Steem, decisions are upheld by stake.

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Show 1 more reply

silentscreamer (69) · 6 years ago

Well it seems @mack-bot disagrees.
Would you say that.... lets see.. Scientology shouldnt have the right to attack those that attack it? And those that attack the practices of Scientology dont have the right to do so?

Look.. I know getting flags is tough, but if you want free speech you need to have a system in place that allows for those that object to something to have an effect on that, just like in real life..
The reward pool isnt a given. The rewards arent your money, or my "money"... We all share the reward pool and we should all have the right based on our stake, individual or grouped to say where those rewards should go to.
This is as simple as it gets.
The flag system is a must.
Its a shame most people dont use it fully.

And no... i dont think the system can be misused. Absolutely not. Vendettas or anything in that regard arent misuses of the system. Not at all.
Not liking someone and flagging him/her is a shitty thing to do, but we should have that right..
If that goes too far there are corrective measures.

This is a social media website and if you for example came after me (not that i think you would) for dunno, disagreements that would lead to a reaction and a normalization would occur eventually.
What you did to anger the @mack-bot i have no idea, but i hardly believe that the situation cannot be resolved fairly easily.

If you were hollier then holly, then the community would eventually stand up for you out of personal benefit of having such a person and Mackbot would backdown, out of self interest.

No... Flags are a must. Has nothing to do with censorship. But has everything to do with free speech.

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Show 2 more replies

ssjbriggs (56) · 6 years ago

What you consider "trash" is another man's treasure.

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jarvie (70) · 6 years ago

It's on the blockchain ... your web interface is likely Steemit.com??
They have an algorithm that chooses to hide posts.

There are other interfaces to the steem blockchain. Would you prefer that there be one that Does Not hide flagged posts?

How would you like to see it go down as far as hiding or not hiding posts?

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warjar (56) · 6 years ago

That is a valid point I was not aware of. It doesn’t change my concern about how this work in practice, but it does redirect the question of what to potentially change, from blockchain to the various UIs. Thanks for pointing that out.

My current stance would be yes, to not hide any comments or posts. Any filtering should be on the user end, like we have with NSFW. That would leave you with those who do not correctly label their content, either knowingly or by mistake. The latter would correct themselves by simply notifying them. The other group would be those who post with an intent of disrupting, shocking and offending. To block that a stronger tool is required. So far, I cannot see any such tool that also gives the power to infringe on peoples’ freedom of expression. Any individual could argue that they would accept the trad-off. For my part free speech must be absolute. Any compromises are a slippery slope, like we experience so many placed in the world today.

There are other ways to counter the effect offensive texts and memes. Why do we raise our children? To prepare them for the world, and the inevitable dangers and offences that lingers there.

My censorship concern related to the downvoting is put to rest by your new info. Any UI, like Steemit, is free to do whatever they see fit as far as I’m concerned. The free marked will handle any disagreements on that end.

Whether downvoting is a blessing from above, should be modified or is better of “voted out”, is something I still ponder.

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erodedthoughts (66) · 6 years ago

Maybe we can just start a new tab called Flagged and it works opposite of trending the most flagged post goes to the top. Users can see it and upvote if they feel it is worth payout.

Simple fix to fix the entire issue without removing the most useful feature on the platform.

jarvie (70) · 6 years ago (edited)

K @warjar so I work on @steempeak ... we have filter out (hide) NSFW as an option in settings and we can easily put in Hide low voted comments or low reputation users. I think that's a fair request.

I want to hide them personally because there's so much to go through as it is and i'd love to not have to sort out the spam but I think I'm actually with you giving people the decision to hide what they want making it their own decision.

So... the question for you (and others)
Should a user be able to hide what they are exposed to only? Or should they have more control on their own blog post as well? I'm not saying total control... but should they have some sort of say at least?

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cryptoearnmoney (34) · 6 years ago

Your saying well

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mazzle (63) · 6 years ago

You're not.

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nonameslefttouse (74) · 6 years ago

Well, well, well.

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mazzle (63) · 6 years ago

😎

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devkapoor423 (47) · 6 years ago

Hey @nonameslefttouse, I'm following you and yesterday i read your blog related to art and creativity that was one of the best blog of that day. and I hope you will be enjoying your passion. But I think your creativity is unique and everyone should appreciate your art.. I m waiting for your next blog..
love & support @nonameslefttouse
Don't miss to follow and upvote on my blog @devkapoor423

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siddheart (34) · 6 years ago

Democracy has always been a number game around the world ! I reckon social media too is now no different. Ive come across quite a few posts highlighting censorship as one issue & one that makes a couple of them leave the platform! I'm quite new here to comment as I do not have a first hand experience however freedom of expression should not be trivial - just a thought !

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phoneinf (72) · 6 years ago

Democracy does not exist. It's plutocracy.

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siddheart (34) · 6 years ago

Lool Yes I agree - 100% its a frustrating fact but it nice to see people realizing this & putting in baby steps to get out of the damn !

thakur5 (25) · 6 years ago

It's low because it wanted me to buy. And I did

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kirkins (66) · 6 years ago

I hope @Haejin and others go so I can watch people cry as value tanks and small users go to platforms like ONO

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nonameslefttouse (74) · 6 years ago

Yes, it would be great to see the abusive and whiner types leave this place and take their attitude problems to the competition. I'm looking forward to it. This place will be a lot better without them and their entitlement issues. Steemit would be left with more hard working individuals who appreciate the platform and all it has to offer and that would attract more people like that who care about their investments, and this place will eventually thrive. Success attracts more success so if we can get rid of the some of the trash here, I'm looking forward to it.

whatageek (74) · 6 years ago

lol that idea makes me laugh. Oh no the people making the system bad are going to move their behavior to the competition, what will we do. I wonder if they will send them back.

nonameslefttouse (74) · 6 years ago (edited)

I've been in management and other various leadership roles for quite a few years. Since many have to work to earn around here, they're not much different than employees. When disgruntled employees start throwing hissy fits and threatening to leave the establishment to go work for a competitor, the best thing to do is hold the door open for them. They won't ever change, because that's just how they are under any circumstance, so they'll take their negative attitudes with them, and that's good for business because you get rid of problems and give them to the competition.

Jerry did the same thing here in his post today. Good riddance! I'll hold the door open for him, no problem. He said he wants to leave, not us. He gave everyone here an ultimatum, but in reality, he gave himself that ultimatum. Now he can either stay true to his word, or stick around and be known as an even bigger bullshitter for making empty threats. He just keeps digging his hole deeper and deeper and he'll have to make some serious changes to be ever to climb out of it. Again, he made that choice. Not us.

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

That has to be the glue that holds the corruption together.

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

I know this is controversial, but I believe this is further evidence of the need for decriminalization of cannabis.

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nonameslefttouse (74) · 6 years ago

Hi there. I'm a busy guy. If you have something say, say it. These little pointless one liners you're leaving under my comments don't make much sense, unfortunately, so I don't really know what you're talking about and can't respond until things are clear.

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nitindafda (34) · 6 years ago

@nonameslefttouse i have an opinion about this typical fluctuations about upvoting https://steemit.com/steemit/@nitindafda/my-opinion-about-steemit

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The Art of Commenting
Comment Classifications

spaminator (68) · 6 years ago

Source
Leaving comments asking for votes, follows, or other self promotional messages could be seen as spam.

More Information:

$0.59

mazzle (63) · 6 years ago

Your post has nothing to do with the discussion here. Flagged for shameless self promotion.

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mazzle (63) · 6 years ago (edited)

Oh Jerry, please stop sending your shit ideas to trending. You get flagged because you take advantage of people who are new to Steemit and create shit content.

You try to tell people that you are a stand up comic, a musician and a Steemit expert. You are none of these things. All you are is a failed get rich quick "guru" and a scam artist.

Let's hope we see you drop below 50 in the witness ranks soon.

$6.85

16 votes

mazzle (63) · 6 years ago

That's cute, Jerry used one of his alt accounts to flag me.

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sames (65) · 6 years ago

i don't use this much but +1

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pjau (63) · 6 years ago (edited)

Flagging helps stop the scammers and plagiarists from taking a cut of the reward pool away from the people who care. Yes this is the primary reason for doing it. I think that this is a good thing because the people trying to take an easy ride by stealing others works are not here to make Steemit a better place, a lot of these people just want to make a quick buck. This in itself is a bad thing because they are the ones who will sell Steem for any price. We need people holding Steem, this increases price as there's less being sold.

People who really believe in Steem do not sell all their Steem. FACT, they power up.

Removing flags will be a nightmare because more people (dolphins+whales) will start spending hundreds, even thousands on bid bots without having to worry about being flagged, this in turn will reduce the reward pool share for the little fish. Flagging trash increases funds for everyone else. If everyone flagged trash, it would make Steemit a better place for the people who care. Flagging also teaches newbies who are here for an easy ride to evolve, often they start posting legitimate content, which improves Steemit.

Everything you say seems to scream personal gain, I just think that you want flagging removed for your own gain, not to help everyone else.

Removing flagging is a terrible idea. I vote NO.

$6.52

inertia (73) · 6 years ago

You’re a witness who is advocating removal of downvotes. That’s why you lost your top 20 slot.

I asked you if you were willing to consider if you were wrong about the idea. You said no. So I removed my vote. Then you started to act like maybe it was something you’d consider discussing.

Too late, man.

$6.25

gamernoob (56) · 6 years ago

Your last trending post wasn't stand up comedy Jerry. It was you having a shit rant about getting hated on because you suck your own dick.

And removing the ability to flag someone for receiving rewards that they don't deserve isn't censorship. It's the community determining what a person deserves for their content, which is perfect. The community should absolutely decide how rewards are distributed.

You should not be a recipient of any rewards. You are a scam artist and a terrible representative for Steemit. I was so happy to see you drop from witness rank 22 to 31 over the past week. That speaks volumes about what people think of you here.

$5.98

zyx066 (72) · 6 years ago

Sooo... I took the time to read this angry rant, but couldn't muster the willpower to watch the video you made, you know, the so-called stand-up comedy. Do you realize that's on there forever now, as Steem isn't likely to budge even one fraction of an inch because of this lengthy threat of yours? Look, I was even willing to stay fairly neutral on your typical whale-behavior and bid-bot abuse in my angry rant about egotistical behavior on an blockchain that's designed to have maximum growth if everybody just acted with that community in mind instead of just their own pockets. If you're really the sport you say you are, if you even have the slightest sense of humor and if you have but a fraction of the concern for others you claim to have, you'll read, upvote, resteem and comment on this post: Sh*t-Post! Read At Own Risk! (Braincells Might Perish!). This might be a first small step toward redemption...

Now that we have that shameless plug of my own post, which I know you'll appreciate since plugging yourself is all you seem to do, out of the way let me say that you're not doing yourself or your brothers in arms any good by posting this. "Do as I say or I will leave" doesn't really work well on a community of people that found each-other mainly because of a shared longing for freedom. Most of us are mature enough to realize that there's no such thing as "absolute" freedom of any kind, not even the oral or verbal kind. When your freedom to say what you want hinders my freedom to do the same, you're actually not advocating freedom, you're advocating hierarchy. You're right that one negative experience leaves a bigger impression than 10 positive ones, but that's life my friend and goes for a lot more than just upvotes or flags.

This is also the reason why almost all of us are very hesitant to use that flag-option: we know how it must feel. I never ever flagged anyone in all 3 months I've been active here and The Lord (Jerry?) knows I've seen a lot of crap that doesn't deserve the insane earnings they accumulated. Oh wait... I did flag someone once: I flagged myself just as a fun experiment, to see what it does.

What I'm trying to say here is that "normal" posts don't get flagged under normal circumstances. From what I've seen it's mostly comments that fall in the "beggar" category or the "spam" category being downvoted by spam-bots or blatant copying by the (in)famous cheetah bot, like "I like this post a lot! I upvoted it too! Can you please upvote and follow me too?" copy-pasted in 100 posts. If those users used that energy to make a picture of the street they live in and tell a funny anekdote on what happened there yesterday, they would make the same small amount of money if their obvious free-ride comments were being left alone. They would even have a chance at the occasional massive upvotes if they strike gold with a particularly beautiful photograph or funny text. Then they would be starting with relative crap, but getting better over time.

You really have to do something really insulting, harmful to the blockchain or otherwise do something so bad, that people get over that initial hesitance and actually flag your post. That's my experience until now and I like it that way. Sure it's not perfect and something needs to be done about the misuse of economical power that now fills the Trending page with mediocrity. Something has to be done about the many well intending communities that require the use of a specific tag to gain the benefits they offer. Let's say I write a post, a good one about something interesting, but I tag it with #ocd-resteem, #steemstem, #msp-whatever, #steemrepo.... how can any new potential users ever find the post by searching on the actual topic of the post? These are things worth talking about, ranting about even. But not this, Jerry, not this.

$5.73

berniesanders (77) · 6 years ago

The “lost boy” look is totally appropriate, but doesn’t help your case @jerrybanfield.

$4.89

11 votes

fbslo (70) · 6 years ago (edited)

My last stand up comedy video on Steem was a perfect test case here to demonstrate that censorship is alive and well on Steem.

You got -$30 flags. You still have $500+ pending payout.

Downvoted Investors + Authors Eventually Sell Everything

Do we need authors who leave after first flag? I get over -$200 flag once and I'm still here.

We will act quickly together to get rid of downvoting on the Steem blockchain or Steem will fail to achieve everything it was setup to accomplish in being a platform free from censorship where our voice has value.

Removing flags will destroy Steem. Can you imagine how much spam is on Steem now? Without flags, there will be even more spam!

Steemit Inc's delegation to a project downvoting mostly minnows collectively for hundreds of dollars a day is the tip of the iceberg.

Steemcleaners & Spaminator & mack-bot are protecting Steem from spam. They are downvoting mostly minnows, because minnows create most of spam!

value of Steem today would be closer to $10 instead of a $1 if in the previous hardfork we had made one relatively small change. If we expect Steem to ever consistently grow in value and in daily users, the time is now at a bare minimum to test removal of the ability to remove rewards from a post by flagging.

Market is down because of bitcoin, not because of downvoting. Whole crypto market is down, not only STEEM!

$4.73

killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

I think @steemit should be the only account aloud to fly because people like themarkymark abuse the power they have I mean I'm on a blacklist for making meme's now that's crazy

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fbslo (70) · 6 years ago

@themarkmark is free to do anything with his stake, you can do anything with your stake too.

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jasonshick (65) · 6 years ago

Lots of mistakes in the post Jerry. First of all, the price of steem is down because crypto is in a bear cycle and no crypto currency has been able to separate itself from the entire field. WHen bitcoin is bear, the whole sphere is bear. The price of steem is a refelction of this, not downvoting.

Second, how you relate downvoting with racism is beyond me.

Third, when someone spouts off nonsense, spam and steals other peoples content, it deserves to be downvoted and I would go one step further as to limit that user's ability to post. There is no need for a lot of the garbage posts that we see on the platform and the users doing this only have their self-interest in mind. By limiting their access to self promotion we are making a positive attempt to modify this behavior.

$4.55

14 votes

fow (51) · 6 years ago

Correct @jasonshick. Proof of brain requires the ability to down vote.

vegan4theanimals (54) · 6 years ago

@jasonshick reach for an upvote much?

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jasonshick (65) · 6 years ago

From who, you?
You just keep going with your healthy eating unless you actually have something to add or contribute.

sames (65) · 6 years ago

fourth even if you downvote the post is still there other platforms would delete it

$0.00

sidsun (57) · 6 years ago

WHat about @haejin. I think he stopped posting here on crypto after a witch hunt. U can choose to ignore it. But seriously there was a major element of racism. Haejin has hundreds of dedicated followers and it was great to get free advise here. He literally got smoked out. It's unfair man!

$0.00

mazzle (63) · 6 years ago

Haejin was here to rape the reward pool and nothing else. If you look at the posts by people who analysed his "advice" you'd see that a tiny percentage of his predictions were accurate.

Only the gullible followed him, and I feel sorry for anyone who followed his investment advice. How many times did you see him communicate what he was actually investing in? Never.

He posted 10 times a day to receive the maximum possible 100% upvotes from ranchorelaxo. That's all it was. There was never any real advice in the posts. It was all bullshit.

sidsun (57) · 6 years ago

Im not too sure. I followed him for over two weeks and he was on track. Not sure what he's advising right now. Couple of predictions went really well for me. He did say SBD will go to the moon before he quit here. .....Which didn't sort of happen coz bitcoin crashed after that. I'd love to know what he'd be saying now. It was just entertaining.. Raping rewards pool - i guess we cannot control everyone's behaviour here.

$0.00

mazzle (63) · 6 years ago

He left to start a trading analysis subscription site. I’m sure he’d be happy to take your money.

$0.00

sidsun (57) · 6 years ago

lol...i was happy reading it for nothing here...

$0.00

bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

he is still actively posting. He has gone nowhere. @berniesanders is just not advertising the guys presence any more. go to his page, If you were a fan or a follower you would know he is still here and has gone nowhere.

Not sure what he's advising right now

He has two pictures and his disclaimer up about Open Text Corp. (OTEX) Analysis - - - Jerry is 100% wrong about flags.. There were more than two post that tracked and showed his guess percentages. it was around 14% correct over a two month study I believe. If you made money during a two week stretch, it was during a two week stretch when everything was going up.

$0.00

doomsdaychassis (63) · 6 years ago

wow. haejin was only here for himself. he made probably millions and never even bothered to throw any of his supporters a scrap. How anyone would follow that guy is beyond me.

khoa (56) · 6 years ago

Only idiot follow haejin.

$0.00

tesselart (59) · 6 years ago (edited)

delete

$0.00

jasonshick (65) · 6 years ago

That was quite the delusional story you came up with. I needed a good laugh. Keep drinking the funny Kool-aid

$0.00

tesselart (59) · 6 years ago (edited)

delete

$0.00

uv10 (51) · 6 years ago

I think he's not wrong to separate the value of steem from the bear market issue, since the down tend says nothing about the intrinsic value of steem. markets often behave in a way that exposes powerful players to opportunities thought herding a crowd a certain way. an indication that an asset is undervalued is when accumulation of it occurs as it priced down. I don't see it in steem and it makes me worry about the platform. I hope to see STEEm as being more the a mechanism of wealth transfer in dollars. I think that deploying censorship is a sure wat to ATTRACT sceamers and bad actors, since they will rush to missuse it. So I disagree with you

$0.00

treschouette (46) · 6 years ago (edited)

If you think flags are suppressing the USD value of STEEM - then I've got a DASH node I'll trade for your account.

$4.04

8 votes

boomerang (56) · 6 years ago

This post has received a 6.5 % upvote from @boomerang.

$0.00

nitindafda (34) · 6 years ago

@boomerang i studied about steemit and i have an opinion about it. https://steemit.com/steemit/@nitindafda/my-opinion-about-steemit

$0.00

tuck-fheman (74) · 6 years ago

I am imaging a future where a blockchain empowers us globally to each share our voice without fear of loss from downvotes while each user interface makes decisions on what to show to readers.

You need to be on the Qora blockchain. You can post all you want, no one can downvote, you can receive tips for your work. It's actually looking for a new Development Team Jerry, so you could basically take it over and do all teh things on your very own chain.

See ya!

$3.78

joeyarnoldvn (61) · 6 years ago

Can you share a link here to that blockchain? Qora or Quora? Do you have to deposit money into it before tipping? I have never put money in Steemit and I like that. Other websites may require input before output of Bitcoin, money, or whatever.

$0.00

http://qorablock.com/index/main.html

tuck-fheman (74) · 6 years ago (edited)

It's basically a ded chain waiting to be continued by a new team. Jerry and his crack team could dominate the entire chain all for themselves! It could become the greatest story in crypto if Jerry just bought himself a Dev team to pick up where the others left off. It's so cheap too, Jerry could pump that shitcoin to incredible heights and get so rich that he leaves crypto entirely (you're starting to see my plan unfold now aren't you)!

Here's what a "real" decentralized blog looks like : http://node2.qora.org:9090/tuckfheman

$0.00

joeyarnoldvn (61) · 6 years ago

Maybe we should and beat Jerry to it.

$0.00

tuck-fheman (74) · 6 years ago

I tried years ago, then Dan said he could make a better one, then Dan made Steem, now here we are.

$0.00

joeyarnoldvn (61) · 6 years ago

Good. That is good. Steem is the best, currently.

$0.00

doomsdaychassis (63) · 6 years ago

steem is down because Bitcoin is down. Pretty much the whole market. Getting rid of downvotes would only make our already trash trending page even worse. I would literally just post a picture of my dogs shit and bot vote it to the top. That is just fucking stupid.

$3.05

7 votes

viraldrome (67) · 6 years ago

Use Jerry's shitty bot to upvote it when you do

parryinecstasy (49) · 6 years ago

As stupid as it is, the bot are to be blamed.
In fact, am really tired and bewildered when it comes to who really is to blame. The bots helps promote post and that doesn't mean people should upvote the posts. Just like this post, it's been promoted using bit bots otherwise, we wouldn't see it.
But if you don't like a post, it should be completely ignored instead of flagging because I have seen and noticing so many persons having time to downvote but have not time to upvote, that rubbish. As long as people cannot post freely here without getting flagged or Downvoted, there will still be a fundamental problem.
If flagging should not be completely removed, it can be censored to for every user with a certain reputation and above to have same downvoting Power no matter your steem Power. And no account should have the ability to Downvote more than twice in 6days. That will help

bmanmcfly (47) · 6 years ago

I am sure that bitcoin price dropping has an impact.

Ultimately, downvotes are nothing.

The real issue is how votes are weighted... I understand the motivation to keep people vested in the platform, but when you can get 10 votes as .001, and anothers 2% vote is .02, that is too massive of a disparity.

See some people get 50 votes and 150$, while others get maybe 2 cents for 10-15 votes. Thats a hard mental barrier for people to overcome.

Far worse than the impact of someone reading what was written and voting it down because they disagree.

rajkarada (30) · 6 years ago

crypto currency is not always stable so wrong prediction or comment on steem is not right

itraaj (40) · 6 years ago

Steam is the mirror of the future. This is a boon for writers in the future. Steam gives the authors the opportunity to show their talents. steem market again recover and steem will be top 10 cryptocurrency in coin market cap.

nitindafda (34) · 6 years ago

well said. i explained that why bitcoin downfall ?
https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@nitindafda/bitcoin-price-steady-above-usd6k-despite-bithumb-hack

$0.00

mazzle (63) · 6 years ago

Hilarious and shameless promotion of plagiarised material.

malloryblythe (55) · 6 years ago

I dunno man. I don’t think this is affecting the current price as much as you think it is. Pardon me for saying it, but I think you think that it’s affecting price that much because the looming threat of downvotes affects people in your tier. I personally don’t know a single person in the 59ish rep and under range in my communities who has ever been downvoted or even thinks about the possibility.

Those of us who have Blockfolios loaded with alts can see that all altcoins have taken a heavy beating in the past couple months, because the price fluctuations of all cryptos that aren’t Bitcoin are basically just spillover from what’s happening with Bitcoin. Ultimately, not enough people know about STEEM’s true potential and until that changes it will be coupled in public perception with Bitcoin and will follow the rest of the market’s fluctuations. Either cryptos in general will have to recover in the market, or STEEM needs to be removed from the crypto market’s fluctuations altogether. As it stands, few crypto investors know much about Steemit. I’m part of a big group chat with about 25 serious crypto investors and when I brought it up with them nobody even really knew what I was talking about, or knew anything about STEEM at all.

$2.84

uvas (46) · 6 years ago

haha, go poke a whale a few times...they will be happy to downvote you.

$0.00

malloryblythe (55) · 6 years ago

I’ve been pretty blunt to a few whales when I thought they were acting like bullies or that they were acting out of line and none of them have ever actually downvoted me for it. But I also don’t go running my mouth off to people where it’s not warranted in general in life. I try to keep my behavior online in tune with my real life values. But maybe I shouldn’t jinx it and say it’ll never happen because that’s just asking for someone to get me to make a point...

$0.00

drakos (70) · 6 years ago (edited)

When you realize every one downvoting my recent stand up comedy cared more about trying to teach me a lesson than giving you an upvote on your post, then we see the real problem.

Don't you think the flags were a result of the offensive content of that post? And why are you still making videos naked?

Without the downvotes, this place will turn into a clusterfuck of reward pool abuse.

You lost your top 20 position because of the content of that "standup comedy", it had nothing to do with the downvotes issue and it happened before that. Haven't you read the comments on that post from your main whale supporters who pulled their vote for you?

$2.15

ssjsasha (67) · 6 years ago

Definitely not by sucking ourselves off then paying hundreds to promote steem and spine surgery

$1.93

9 votes

grey580 (61) · 6 years ago

Jerry's kids takes on a whole new meaning now.

$0.25

honusurf (62) · 6 years ago (edited)

Fosho - LOL!

$0.00

8 votes

bitcoincompany (67) · 6 years ago

bitcoin market is down just have patient it wil recover.

$1.89

khoa (56) · 6 years ago

If you hold on it could go to zero, will lose everything.

$0.66

malloryblythe (55) · 6 years ago

In theory we’ve all made sure not to invest more than we can afford to lose... right?

debu007 (32) · 6 years ago

this is the we have to support crypto market

$0.56

bitcoincompany (67) · 6 years ago

steem is the best platform you should be patient or you sell and wil cry later same like dash you did..

$1.86

5 votes

blasterking (30) · 6 years ago

yeah you are right brother @bitcoincompany

$0.63

debu007 (32) · 6 years ago

i agree with you

$0.58

anujneo (29) · 6 years ago

You are absolutely right @bitcoincompany

$0.00

themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago (edited)

I couldn’t imagine Jerry bs if we had no flags. Think he is bad now, imagine him without the ability to flag.

Most flags are because someone cares. Not all but most.

$1.28

martie7 (62) · 6 years ago

yeahh. We must to pay curator reward for flags. People who flagging bad content get nothing.

$0.00

hiroyamagishi (68) · 6 years ago (edited)

Steemit is still far from perfection but still way ahead on any blockchain available in coinmarket. Flagging really traumatized people and leaving away the platform. Hope it can resolves in the future. Still watching your video Jerry. You made a good point of view. Downvoting is more powerful than upvoting likewise that if I punch you in the face will make us enemy for century which you will remember more than the 10 times for all that I did good things to you. I remember the saying, Only for one bad thing we forget the 10 good things of that person did.

$1.24

9 votes

phoneinf (72) · 6 years ago

This is child mentality. Adults don't make such a big deal out of it and go to resolve it.

$0.00

hiroyamagishi (68) · 6 years ago

that is how it works. we remember the bad more than the good. like some of the children today for only minor mistakes of their parents they are neglecting all the years that happened

$0.00

bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

Some wrongs can never be righted. Minor offenses happen every day in life and are forgotten soon after. Down voting is a flag, it may or may not cause a lot of financial pain, but if a person is spamming, scamming, plagiarizing, or hating on, then that flag is deserved. It is not as he portrays censorship. All post are readable. Nothing goes away. I have seen art works on steemit with the NSFW label, the artist do know how to use it and are cautious about offending people. I have seen comedy post use it because of language. If a person does not use it do you want your children to look over your shoulders and see a man having sex with a man or woman or monkey or himself? That is one of the reasons also for flags. You want a guy that did that video to be able to post whatever he wants without fear of reprisal from the community? Sorry, I hope that day never comes.

Do you think he really cares about steemit? He cares about it so much that he is just so overwhelmed that he has responded to zero comments in the last 6 days. Jerry cares about one thing and one thing only, his own pocket book and playing pocket pool with himself.

$0.00

bahadur35555 (48) · 6 years ago

You are saying well

$0.00

sathyasankar (63) · 6 years ago

I'm able to see your comments under every trending posts. Do you think people can simply copy-paste contents and be rewarded? In my opinion plagiarists and those who never upvote others should get flagged.

$0.00

sirknight (67) · 6 years ago

Hi Jerry, good post.

This Knight knows a couple of great bloggers who stopped posting altogether due to a single, unwarranted 'downvote'. When questioned, the downvoter just replied 'toughen up, it is just part of the game.'

Unfortunately people who have worked hard, researching, drafting, reviewing, publishing don't see it as a game and the downvote really hurts.

This Knight is hoping that SMTs will solve this problem. Communities can enjoy and thrive in their own currency, nullifying the downvote of the Steem Whale. This being said - delays in business tend to mean problems.

This Knight is concerned that SMTs are not possible on the STEEM blockchain. Perhaps others are feeling the same and leaving accordingly - so this could be another reason for the sinking STEEM price. Some clarification around this from the powers that be would be nice.

Good day to you.

$1.20

jackmiller (66) · 6 years ago

I don't normally comment on threads that I don't care for much, however, this comment caught my eye for a number of reasons, one of them being it is proactive, constructive and definitely from a person who believes in the power of Steem.

Probably the only comment that I will upvote and comment on in any of these types of posts and threads.

Fully understand and agree with your attitude and approach to things.

Jack

$0.13

taaveti (56) · 6 years ago (edited)

I am fairly new to Steemit, wrote a few articles about gaming so far. Trying to get deeper in the community. I have seen some downvoting ect... and I can not completely agree with your point. I see tons of stolen pictures... non-stop spam comments... bad sourcing... the whole nine and I think that flagging and removing the monetary incentive to just copy paste and post for dollars everyday is a good way to thwart Steemit from being over run by bots and abusers.

Now sometimes I do see content flagged by some of the more wealthy Steemit holders for reasons that do not exactly fall into plagiarism, or spam... but rather just bad content or abusing the system. like making 6 to 10 posts a day with a picture and 4 sentences about a candle stick graph... no real content and then use bots and delegation to make 100s of dollars per post. I also agree with the people that flag these posts... the obvious abuse of the system and draining the reward pool.. I think this discourages people more the occasional flag.. it certainly does personally. I try to write in depth articles that I see get out performed everyday by a sentence and a meme..

I think flagging is necessary and most witnesses do a good job. (the ones I know) like @themarkymark awesome guy.

$1.16

guiltyparties (70) · 6 years ago

No one owes you witness votes. You're not owed $500, you're not owed upvotes, you're not owed anything at all on this platform or this planet.

$1.14

bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

I think there is one thing that he is owed - - - A straight jacket.

$0.00

allmonitors (74) · 6 years ago

It is a good time to buy Steem while the price is low.

$0.74

rajkarada (30) · 6 years ago

@allmonitors I bought it now

$0.00

allmonitors (74) · 6 years ago

Good! Power it up and if you have more spare money do it again :)

$0.75

rajkarada (30) · 6 years ago

Thanks for your encouragement.

$0.00

genuineairdrop (25) · 6 years ago

i am buying it in every deep...

$0.00

allmonitors (74) · 6 years ago

Cheers!

$0.42

kryzsec (59) · 6 years ago

Remove flagging you mean so you can buy expensive bids from major bidbots and upvote yourself to over $1000 every day without consequence. No. Look at the votes on your post, people do not agree with you.

$0.62

tntdabomb (62) · 6 years ago

No. Steem is low because the market is low. Can't expect Steem to stay up when the cryptomarket is going through an abusive relationship with banks, legal restrictions, and etc...

$0.61

socky (72) · 6 years ago

I've been hit with hate flagging, and my wife has been hit too. It is something that we have worked through. User retention is compounded by the flagging. No doubt. I however don't see the price being affected in this current market by flagging.

Here is a graph that I created of Total Steem Supply and Liquid Steem Supply (STEEM not in SP). It tells me that people are still buying up STEEM to store into SP. Overall, there is less available Liquid STEEM than there was back in February. I think the real culprit of low price is bitcoin dominance. When it tanks, it takes everyone with it.

It doesn't help that STEEM and SBD have limited listings on exchanges. Just look at SBD. There is no major multilingual exchange that lists SBD and yet SBD is a major avenue for new money into Steemit. Steemit is literally excluding people of other languages from participating (at least the ones that are willing to invest in SP). Even the number of exchanges that STEEM is listed on is severely deficient compared to other coins in the top 50. It doesn't make sense to me that an explanation for a low currency price is due to downvoting. Bottom line is STEEM currency is a currency yet Steemit Inc doesn't treat it like a currency. If STEEM is not made available everywhere in every language, people won't consider it a currency and they won't use it. The flag issue is not the reason. To fix STEEM price, Steemit Inc needs to treat STEEM as a currency. It is not a "Field of Dreams" where they "Build it and They Will Come".

I have a solution (although not perfect one), that can influence changes. I have many users willing to cast Witness votes for real change instead of voting for popularity. It is impressive the amount of voting power we have been able to get so far. I encourage everyone to join my effort.

$0.57

cheech-oz (65) · 6 years ago

Best YouTube comment of 2018

$0.35

drakos (70) · 6 years ago

I saw that one earlier today, made me chuckle.

joeyarnoldvn (61) · 6 years ago

Funny.

$0.00

peepey (50) · 6 years ago

Steem won't fail. It will surely rise again! I believe

$0.34

rajkarada (30) · 6 years ago

you are very right

$0.00

parryinecstasy (49) · 6 years ago

I hope so. I do wonder if users have a role to play than real time investors. If actually content creators are important to the blockchain, then everyone collective efforts are needed and definitely there isn't any need to flag or downvote

$0.00

martie7 (62) · 6 years ago

Steem will fail due to bad thirdparty clients and stupid apps.

$0.00

tangerinetravels (70) · 6 years ago (edited)

I think downvotes have their place. In fact, I think they're not used nearly enough. With that said, I wish people would be careful when using them because you're right, a $20 downvote stirs up more negative emotions than does a $200 upvote stirs up positive emotions. Flags hurt a lot (especially when undeserved) and one big downvote can make a person want to stop posting. I've seen it happen first hand.

But, if someone is calling people names or abusing the system, they deserve to be flagged. If they decide to stop posting or sell their Steem, so be it. We don't want them here.

Steemit Inc is delegating millions of Steem power to a project that systematically downvotes mostly new authors trying to get started on Steem while failing to downvote any of the most obvious abuses.

I think this is a very unfair way to talk about @steemcleaners. You make it sound like they're out to downvote new authors just because they're posting low-quality stuff. They don't downvote because of low-quality. @steemcleaners are working their tails off to fight plagiarism, spam, and abuse. That stuff doesn't have a place here on Steem.

I agree with you that they let some of the most obvious forms of abuse slide. With that said, they're in a tough position. They're not here to be the judge of what's good and bad content. Sure, they probably think @haijin is the biggest abuser on the platform but is it their place to decide that? I'm not sure. It's a slippery slope and there's a lot of subjectivity that goes into making decisions like that.

This whole letting abuse slide thing was especially true in the earlier (pre-jerrybanfield) days of Steem. If you found a minnow posting an obviously-plagiarized post, they'd get flagged. But if the same thing was done by a Steem witness/whale/friend of a whale, @steemcleaners wouldn't do anything.

$0.31

maverickinvictus (64) · 6 years ago

I think this is a very unfair way to talk about @steemcleaners. You make it sound like they're out to downvote new authors just because they're posting low-quality stuff. They don't downvote because of low-quality. @steemcleaners are working their tails off to fight plagiarism, spam, and abuse. That stuff doesn't have a place here on Steem.

I happen to like what Steemcleaners do and fully support them and any witness that I see that are doing their best to support them as well.

If not for Steemcleaners we would have so much spam and plagiarized content out there and they would be just abuse things and just keep sending their SBD and Steem out and hardly investing time or effort.

$0.00

enforcer48 (68) · 6 years ago (edited)

~~YouTube~~ EOS offers way less censorship than Steem does today because only ~~YouTube~~ Dan Larimer can remove earnings while anyone with Steem power can go take money away from anyone else.

Since you like to allude to different entities such as @steemcleaners, @berniesanders, etc. in your post so much, I fixed it to better match what you were afraid to type.

People have already said this, so I won't be bothering putting this on @dmania.

For the record, I find it highly offensive the way you described @steemcleaners because I happen to be one of the multitudes of Steemians who volunteer their time to help the main cleaners to keep the abusers at bay.

$0.26

iamstan (62) · 6 years ago (edited)

Just remember someone else writes Jerry's posts. So who knows, who it is that thinks what was written here?

$0.26

10 votes

lyndsaybowes (71) · 6 years ago

Keep up the great work @enforcer48! And thank you for giving a shit.

church-of-piglet (50) · 6 years ago (edited)

If saying "you're right about flagging" is what it takes to make you power down and leave, the Church of Piglet is willing to do so and agree with everything you say on the subject.

For a small fee, we'll even call you a Steemit Martyr after you're gone, among the other things we'll call you.

$0.25

stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago (edited)

Censorship is always bullying! The flag is the tool of oppression for the Steemit oligarchy. Those with the power can oppress the minnow caste. Because there is a financial hit, and loss of potential income, only trouble can come from this. First, it ghettoizes the community, secondly it can be a tool of punishment for political or religious views or personal gripes, third, it is dangerous! Rival groups can engage in flagging warfare, and punish a group's income or target an individual. This can spill out into the real world with violence, turf wars or personal gripes that can destroy relationships or cause violence and misery over money. There is a world of trouble the flag causes. NO GOOD CAN COME FROM IT! The flag has got to go. And no other type of thumbs down or tool of punishment. The way to deal with miscreant members is to address the issues with the truth in comments to them. Let the truth work. Let freedom work because we all know how oligarchs do, and it isn't pretty.The flag is the FLAG OF OPPRESSION of the ruling class oligarchy in Steemit. I'm not going to stick around for the handing out of pitchforks and torches.

If the flag were eliminated everything would change for the better. Members would no longer feel intimidated with warnings and threats. True liberty would exist. The miscreants would be addressed as to the errors by people who value the truth and righteousness. Not only would good content rise to the top but so too would the truth. Members would feel free to speak their mind but knowing full well the only punishment they face is the public record of the criticism of the crowd (this is sufficient), investors would feel more secure in their financial future, and member retention would go up.

Facebook is failing because people are fed up with having their information compromised, and the ghettoizing and marginalizing of its members. And there is also the issue of admitted shadow banning and outright censoring of its members. I left facebook for these very reasons. That is why I came to Steemit. But now I find Steemit is just as bad. What a disappointment! It's bad enough on facebook but on Steemit you actually hurt people financially! And it can be a lot of money. And it can spill over into real life in the form of violence. Give an infant a hammer and everything begins to look like a nail. The flagging abuse will be far worse and any actual abuse it gives lip service to be preventing.

If the flag were removed ALL of facebook, youtube and Soundcloud would come over to Steemit. This would be the biggest declaration of liberty the world has ever seen. Zuckerberg would soil his pants. Lust for greed and power are at the heart of the flag which is its tool for oppression. The top at Steemit are delusional, and the flag is suicide for the Steemit platform. As long as the flag stays Steemit is doomed to failure. And your investments are at risk. How many hours of your time have you invested. The flag is the elephant in the room. It is the stumbling block to success for the platform. It will be its Achilles heel.

Investors beware! Personally, I will not invest a penny of my own money in Steem. If they embraced liberty, and remove the flag...I'm all in.

Censorship can NEVER be justified. Censorship is always COWARDICE of the truth. LET THE TRUTH RISE TO THE TOP

Remove the flag of oppression from Steemit or fail just like the rest.

Can you tell I'm disappointed.

$0.19

5 votes

erodedthoughts (66) · 6 years ago

None of the "money" made on a post belongs to the poster until the 7-day window closes. A flag does not take away anything from the poster.......UNLESS.....that greedy fucker bought votes.......cost of advertising. The same thing happens when I set my DVR to record without commercials or I get up to piss while the commercials play.

$1.13

stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago (edited)

NO GOOD can come from this flag. There is NO legitimate justification for its existence. If you get flagged by someone with a high reputation it is not equal to someone with a low score. The flag is problematic in so many ways. Just forget the idea once and for all. Get over it already. It is just a power trip for those who like to hurt. It is a bad thing, A VERY bad thing.

$0.00

erodedthoughts (66) · 6 years ago

Jerry leaving would "Make Steem Great Again"

$0.00

stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

He just needs to be informed.

$0.00

erodedthoughts (66) · 6 years ago (edited)

He knows, it is users like him that make video's on YouTube bringing people here with a turnkey way to scam the system, that requires we will always need flags.

He isn't known as Scamfield for just any reason.

And anyone blind to his tactics needs to go too, we have enough sheep to deal with, without adding stupid sheep.

$0.00

stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

Bots and the like are technical issues. They should be handled with a technical solution. The flag only complicates that issue. Nothing good can ever come from the flag.

$0.00

erodedthoughts (66) · 6 years ago (edited)

Show me a single censored post and I will agree with you.

I think you and many others are confused between being censored and having your personal payout corrected, all funds removed on a post go back to the community. Like when Jerry boosted this bullshit post above $1,000 the community corrected it as it isn't worth $10. He is very lucky more users do not care about the community or it would be blanked out.

$0.00

Show 48 more replies

bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

Yes you are 100% right, I should be allowed to come to your post leave comments with pictures of x sucking x and pictures of dead bodies, videos of people hanging themselves, be allowed to call you all kinds of names accuse you of the most heinous crimes, and you should have absolutely no right to tell me what I can post on your post. There are really NO legitimate justification for you to complain about me or anyone else who feels like calling you an idiotic moron or anything like that.

I have no clue if you are serious about wanting the flag to go away, my comment was not serious it was a response to show what could happen without the flag.

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

The thing about that is I can report violation of the law to law enforcement. I can provide the evidence for a legal case. The person that posts illegal material takes the risk of arrest and conviction for their crime. The flag puts law enforcement in the hands of the unqualified. troll, malcontents or team flaggers. Your concerns have no merit. If it happens to you IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to inform LAW ENFORCEMENT! If it is less than a violation of the law you can deal with it by applying the truth. And therein is the opportunity for the truth to rise to the top. If a member shows his backside will he get many upvotes? Unless you upvote them.

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bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

in the hands of the unqualified

Okay cherry pick time. In a trial by jury, all 12 members are unqualified to make a judgement call as they are not law enforcement personnel. If the only people that are qualified to make a judgement call are law enforcement So we should do away with trial by jury?

If you see a crime taking place IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY as a human to aid the person being injured, and then inform LAW ENFORCEMENT! If you can do something and then abdicate the responsibility of doing something to someone else because it is not your job, then you become part of the problem.

If it happens to you IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to inform LAW ENFORCEMENT!

last cherry pick: So some guy in Iraq, steals an image you posted and is using it to make a shit load of money. What Law Enforcement are you going to call? What Legal system are you going to use?

The down vote flag is a needed and necessary part of steemit, there are groups and people that help when it is abused.

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

So hell with the law?...just put law enforcement in the hands of trolls, spammers, team flaggers and the very people who ARE the miscreants. What could go wrong? An abuse alert with no power to steal might be a good option. I am not sure which law enforcement you call for this. That is an excellent question. My point is that it is not our job to be cops. Law enforcement is something the administrators need to address. Why not have a button that alerts the administrators to a problem.

On Steemit there is no fair hearing, no redress of grievance, no violations of guidelines to cite, no judicial oversight, no due process whatsoever. Steemit is mob rule by would be tyrants, trolls, racists, malcontents and miscreants. I don't think that the flag is an appropriate solution to a law enforcement problem.

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bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

My point is that it is not our job

Heard that a lot. usually when someone has died, "it wasn't my job or responsibility." It is our job to take action when action is called for and to not rely on some magical outside force to take care of problems. Your house is on fire you call the fire department, you die in the fire because you were waiting for them to put it out. You are in a convenience store, you see the store being robbed, you do not call the cops instead you leave because it was not your job. I don't think we will even come close to a middle ground.

On Steemit there is no fair hearing, no redress of grievance, no violations of guidelines to cite, no judicial oversight, no due process whatsoever.

Steemit is controlled by the people. There are groups/individuals that do redress grievances. Read the FAQ's. There are very very few rules on steemit. One of the rules is NO PLAGIARISM.

It is pretty obvious that you are not going to see that there really is no need for the downvote. So I guess we call the debate done. I believe it is needed, and you believe it is not. I believe a person's vote is theirs to do with as they please, buy, sell,up or down vote.

I hope you enjoy your time here, and if not you can go to facebook where they protect you from the trolls, and protect your right to free speech, where they know what law enforcement to call when you violate their policy. No such thing as shadow banning, or censorship at all on that platform, but it is heavily policed so you will at least be protected there.

Like I said above neither of us is going to convince or be able to show the other side how we see it.

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

Abusers will not take down the platform. Censorship will.

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bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

A down vote is not censorship. It is someone voicing their opinion, exercising their right to say I disagree. All down votes can be countered with upvotes. All greyed out material can with in the 7 days of post issuance can be reversed. After 7 days, it is the voice of the people/person that stood. The opinion that mattered. Not the opinion of the person that is screaming censorship. Because if others agreed they could easily get together their own little group and vote it back to visibility.

That being said, a down vote should not be used for a difference of opinion. The people that use them in that manner are the ones that can not accept that someone sees the world different than they do.

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

It is censorship by any other name.

And with article having a shelf-life of about 30 seconds, it would be difficult to rally for a defense.

What about your right to face your accuser? Where is any due process?

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bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

What about your right to face your accuser?

make a post call them out, ignore them move on with life. Life is hard. There are assholes. No post is removed from steemit. Can you say the same for any other social media program out there? If you are so concerned about this invisible censorship on steemit, play in facebook.

I would like to say this has been fun, but it has not, so I think I am done on this topic thread for now.
Like I said in a previous comment, neither of us are going to be able to see the other person's viewpoint. I have and do look at almost every greyed out post I see. So I do not see censorship.

Enjoy your day.

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Show 1 more reply

patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

That comment should win a noble price. I'm all with you @stephenthorburn

stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

The pall would lift if the flag were removed. If an accusation is made in a comment, it should face scrutiny. There is no accounting to a violation of a guideline when the flag is employed. No accountability for the accuser. Steemit will become a place where the trolls have more power than content producers. Members will flee. investments will tank. THE FLAG PUTS EVERYONES INVESTMENTS AT RISK. Apparently there is little farseeing among the administrators. They don't see their investment at stake because they are consumed with unreasoned fear and lust for power. It gives the trolls the power and the elite oligarchy even more. NO GOOD CAN COME FROM THE FLAG!

Censorship is cowardice of the truth.

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tesselart (59) · 6 years ago (edited)

delete

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

Consider this very post. It is at the time of this comment is at $283. If a hundred high ranking people flagged it right now what would be the earnings loss and the hit to potential earnings ability? I wonder if anyone could even measure the harm done. And the troll walks away gloating at your demise. What a wonderful platform this flag creates.

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tuck-fheman (74) · 6 years ago

Why is the Steem Price Low? How Do We Fix It?

It might help if you left.

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tobixen (62) · 6 years ago

I think that flagging a post that had several hundreds SBD in rewards is to be considered curation, not censorship.

In our local elections, in addition to voting for a party, we used to have the possibility to both upvote and downvote individuals. In order to "protect" individuals, the possibility to downvote was removed. Who benefits? That's the most well-known politicians, those who get most media time, those who are most noisy and get heard the most. Earlier they would get the most upvotes and a fair share of downvotes. Now they only get the most upvotes.

The same applies to Steem. I can understand that it may be unfair that a novice making his first low-quality post gets flagged, but it's totally reasonable that someone that gets a three-digit reward on a post also gets a fair share of downvotes.

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cryptocoinkb (70) · 6 years ago

I think flagging could be better scaled if the influence level of the account flagging was taken into account as well as the proportion of upvotes to down votes. This way a post with a lot of community support even from small accounts couldn't be hurt as much by one whale. The algorithm could also greatly limit the upvote influence value of accounts with less than 20 SP so it would be harder to game the system by someone who controls hundreds of accounts with little or no SP.

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10 votes

trumpman (72) · 6 years ago

fuck you jerry. Sell all your steem and go scam somewhere else

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lyfo (52) · 6 years ago

This is certainly very, very bad news for those of us who wanted STEEMIT to thrive and live up to our most optimistic expectations. Although the title is exaggerated and click-baity the truth is there is a lot of ill will, bullying and demagoguery in this space and much of it does stem from the abuse of the flagging mechanism.

Just as sure as being able to reward each other brings out the best in people, the power to punish brings out the worst. Unchecked it can become like the Milgram experiment where students were willing to shock each other nearly to death or prison situations where normally mild mannered people can become monsters.

And I know what he means by being intimidated into silence by the worst of it. Even if you're not the one being attacked you hesitate to speak up forcefully to save your own bacon.

I think globally we are all on the prison-planet here and viciousness can break out at any moment among the (peasant) inmates due to their chronic frustration. Even though friendliness feels good and animosity feels terrible, the perverse human mind often trends towards jealousy, anger, violence and hatred. Look how it comes up in waves and becomes self-perpetuating!

Is it really that hard to be civil to one another? Why live like crabs in a bucket? All the crabs could escape easily, down to the last one simply by lending a claw and helping each other but usually they prefer to pull each others' legs and kick at those who are below.

It's not fun to spoil people's day. It's twisted, bent, perverse. They really don't deserve it. Be your own cop, police yourself.

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andybets (62) · 6 years ago (edited)

There is hardly any significant flagging in the trending page:
https://steem-sincerity.dapptools.info/trending-analysis

This view clearly shows where there are any flags worth more than $5.

fruitdaddy (64) · 6 years ago

To be honest, as a vegan I feel pressure to not speak freely, and speaking freely is exactly how I built my audience on Youtube. You know what would happen to me on Steem right now if I made a Vegan Gains type video sledging another DTuber?

noobsin (56) · 6 years ago

Maybe people will be forced to talk with some humility. Terrible thought.

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phoneinf (72) · 6 years ago

You are right. People have to become adults and grow up. We don't need YouTube drama on Steemit

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parryinecstasy (49) · 6 years ago

That's the problem. No one posts freely on steemit.

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tangerinetravels (70) · 6 years ago

I think one can speak very freely here. Just don't be a jerk and you'll be fine.

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meno (73) · 6 years ago

Why is it necessary to sledge someone?

I'm serious... I can disagree with someone's point of view. as I'm doing right now, I can tell you that I believe that there is a way to have a healthy discourse, to revise one's convictions, invite someone to discuss.

The fact that you bring out vegan gains to this example of yours speaks volumes. Vegan Gains is this young kid who seems to lose his mind and makes physical threats.

This is the same dude that got youtube famous for calling women opportunistic hoes who get pregnant on purpose to lock in some income. This is the guy you want to model content after?

Listen if you want to talk about things you believe in, how terrible meat is, go for it... 100% I happen to even agree with the vegan philosophy.

If the argument is... "OH BUT I WANT TO HATE, BE BIGOTED, DISRESPECTFUL... BUT IM AFRAID OF FLAGS" - that's how the real world works.

I can't walk up to a stranger call him an asshole and expect him to smile back at me.

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rpgbuilders (53) · 6 years ago

I'm one of those new users that is being flagged! I didn't invest, but rather started an account for free. I have brought over 5 of my friends to try out steemit. However my last post was flagged by bots from the Steemit Defence League. Some great users have created counter bots, to combat the SDL. However I'm really hesitant to post again to keep getting downvoted , really frustrating since I did nothing wrong. Plus the post keeps getting downvoted. You can see it all on my last post. I hope I can over come this, but it also might lead to me leaving Steemit. Sucks!

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bryan-imhoff (66) · 6 years ago

I wouldn’t worry much about it in your particular case! Trolls are a fact of life, case in point the “SDL.” Flags are still a relevant, useful & needed part of the system though.

In your case, the SDL members flagging you have only kept .1 SP each it looks like! The negative votes are no more than symbolic and doing you no real harm. Don’t let it chase you off!

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bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

If you have not given any retaliatory flags to them, file a report with @steemcleaners, and they will investigate, results can vary from nothing, (agreeing with the flag) to putting the offending account on a blacklist that get downvoted everytime it post. If you have retaliatory flagged them, they will do nothing.

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steemitqa (64) · 6 years ago

The only question I have is: Is that a real baby?

sames (65) · 6 years ago

my question is if he leaves can it be golos i need my golos to get pumped...

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giantbear (74) · 6 years ago

I was thinking exactly the same thing....

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steemitqa (64) · 6 years ago

Yes, maybe a rent-a-baby ?

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

I too saw many posts with hate speech, but I was afraid to flag them when I saw the steem-power of the guy who was writing the comment. People with lots of steempower can act like tyrants here.

stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

Yes, it actually has the opposite effect of its intended purpose. Yep it is tyrant mentality. So sad they don't realize it is financial suicide to their investments. I guess the lust for power is greater than the lust for wealth.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

I think our current witnesses have also the fear of losing power and control and giving power away. ''Before I lose my power I kill everyone first'' kind of mentality...

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

Yep! That's it. Its about power to inflict harm to those who disagree. It is shameful. It is suicidal to their investment. Apparently the lust for power is stronger than the lust for money.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

I'm with you @jerrybanfield . Start your own democratic steemit. I'm the first one to join you!!! This here is financial dictatorship!!!

stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago (edited)

I would call it a democratic oligarchy. Steemit is lawless and oppresses without legal remedy or accountability for the oppressor caste. There is no legal remedy for loss of income and income potential, neither is there compensation for legal claims. Who gets sued if violence erupts between rivals on the outside? The flag has so many problems associated with it. So many negatives. Why do they defend it. Has it become a lust for power. It will...you can be sure of that. Give a child a hammer and soon everything looks like a nail.

patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago (edited)

Same as Jerry in the beginning, I was so so stoked about steemit. I would tell everyone about this new social media platform, that has free speech, is run by the community, owned by the community and has the potential to help free humanity from the current central-banking-system and other powerful cooperations. I was so happy about this platform.

What we can witness now is @jerrybanfield being cyber-bullied for speaking his opinion. All what Jerry did was saying things that questions the decisions of current witnesses. For that he is being bullied away from this platform.

2 Questions:

Is it disallowed on steemit to ask for the removal of the flag?
Will every post on the trending page that asks for the removal of the flag systematically being down-voted from witnesses?

That steemit is not a democratic place, is obvious if we look at the fact that this post have over 1000 upvotes but only a 200 downvotes, which means more people want the flag removed.

I actually almost cried today, seeing that people can get bullied on steemit in that way. I can't promote that platform from my heart anymore.

patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

There is another huge problem with downvotes. Because of downvotes there is no controversial discussion possible on steemit!! On facebook all the likes and dislikes will influence the ranking of the post. This will lead to huge and healthy discussions about controversial topics. So maybe we can allow downvotes, but the vote of like and dislike should be combined when it comes to ranking. Anyways the real problem is that the people with the most money have the most influence here. Like in a Central-Banking-System. The Top 20 witnesses should represent the community. All votes for witnesses should be equal of worth!!!

joeyarnoldvn (61) · 6 years ago (edited)

Yes, controversial discussions tend to decline on Steemit, that is when compared to some of the debates I've been in on Facebook around 2010, eight years ago, to some extent it seems, maybe, and we see debates on YouTube, and especially on Twitter. It seems, to some extent, that Steemit discourages anything that can produce consequences, flags, downvotes, less money, or whatever. I am not too sure if this is totally true and I am not sure if this is the fault of Steemit or if there are better alternatives to all of this or not. I like the competition of Steemit. We make money on Steemit. I try to talk about controversial things on Steemit. This thread is controversial for example.

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

Yep. no discussion. Just shadow banning on a massive scale. I thought Zuckerberg was bad and came here to flee the shadow banning. Sad to find out that it is far worse over here.

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pfunk (72) · 6 years ago

There is no shadowbanning on Steem front ends, as far as I'm aware. And definitely nothing of the sort in Steem itself.

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago (edited)

I respectfully disagree. Why does it say "hidden" because of low reputation. It is worse than shadow banning because you take a financial hit on top of the insult.Shadow banning by any other name is the same. You are made invisible...same thing. Shadow banning is a bad thing and people are leaving facebook in droves on account of it. Is this where you would like to see Steemit head?

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meno (73) · 6 years ago

Stephen, I'm sure you mean well, but please explain to me how inconveniencing someone with an extra click equals shadow banning.

If I was to get flagged to "hidden" all you would have to do is click show and my comment would be revealed.

How is this equal or worse than shadow banning?

For context, when someone is shadow banned, that person is not aware that he/she is being censored. This means that he/she keeps on posting completely convinced interaction has dropped, or that no one really cares about the content.

If I get flagged to hidden, I'm also aware of it.

So the two main elements needed to make that connection don't seem present, so again... I know you mean well, but I don't see how you've made this particular connection.

Regarding some of your thoughts on bullying... I agree with some. I think if you are to bring some balance to the conversation it will be from that angle and not this forced analogy you are weaving.

I say this respectfully.

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

Thank you for your excellent social manners. Tell me what makes the flag good? Why do you favor it?

meno (73) · 6 years ago

There are times when it has been very useful to fight back things like child pornography, pyramid schemes, and many other activities that have absolutely no place in a healthy community.

So, no doubt, it should not be the default response to disagreements for sure. I think that is kind of a cultural challenge, something all of us should attempt to do our part to shift.

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

I respectfully disagree. The two issues you mentioned are legal issues and should be handled by law enforcement not trolls. There are laws regarding both issues. Neither of these issues should be handled by the membership. The responsibility of any individual that has been witness to a crime is to inform law enforcement. It is not the responsibility of members to be police, judge and executioner. Plagerism is also a legal issue. Why put legal matters in the hands of trolls and malcontents. I stand on my original premise, the the flag has no legitimate justification for its existence.

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Show 2 more replies

tesselart (59) · 6 years ago (edited)

delete

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

On facebook you are bullied and shadow banned. On Steemit you are bullied and shadow banned while having your wallet fleeced. Steemit is worse.

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

They should not try to sweep miscreance under the rug thinking it will go away. Defiance to evil is service to God. Allowing the truth to rise to the top is the cure for miscreant behaviors. Address the evil head on. In Steemit that can never occur. Liberty works if we let it. Let the truth rise to the top. Fear clouds reason.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

George Orwell was always right.

Farm of Animals (Original title: Animal Farm) is a dystopian fable by George Orwell, published in 1945. Contents is the collection of animals of an English farm against the rule of their human owner, who neglected and exploits them. After initial successes and beginning prosperity, the pigs take over more and more the leadership and eventually build a tyranny that is worse than the one who wanted to shake off the animals.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

I translated it with google, so it's a bad translation

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

Excellent point!

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joeyarnoldvn (61) · 6 years ago

Facebook removes controversial things including my Hitler photo.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

If there will be no change to this blockchain Mark Zuckerberg could take a little bit of his money, be Top-Witness and make steemit his little b***h. Do we all want that?

stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

Remove the flag and Zuckerberg would soil his pants because everyone would flee facebook and come to Steemit. That is the loss of potential the flag puts on the platform. The flag is financial suicide.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

Yes, the flag has to go.

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

Thanks! The admins should have been more farseeing. I doubt they will see the light because they are already too invested in the flawed philosophy to see their own shadow.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

ya zuckerberg has taken over already. Since we are in the age of blockchain technology, i expect something better than steemit to come out in the next 5 years..

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

It exists already...Steemit. If they would only realize it. Their fear will kill the golden goose. All they need to do is restrict DAPPs and get rid of the flag. They are more consumed by the lust for power than their lust for money.

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

The argument about plagiarism does not hold water.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago (edited)

There could be a better way to remove plagiarism or violet posts. Everyones flag counts the same. If a post get flags it could be reviewed by a voted committee...something like that...

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago (edited)

I say, let the public react and shame them with the truth. It works far better. A review is too complicated, takes time and involves labor costs. Removing the flag costs nothing. If a guideline has been violated its one thing. Putting the trolls in charge is not the answer.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

well you could vote the people in charge, if they abuse their power you can vote for someone else

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stephenthorburn (44) · 6 years ago

Its easier and costs nothing to remove the flag and abandon the idea once and for all. Think about how the platform would grow. The flag was my one and only turn off about Steemit. It is the elephant in the room.

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bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

better way to remove plagiarism or violet posts

Would that not be censorship? Removing a person post? Are you not against censorship? Or are you only against it when it is convenient to you?

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

No way

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joeyarnoldvn (61) · 6 years ago

Can we outnumber Mark and other potential whales in outvoting the other votes? We all can become rich over time and become like Mark and others. I don't flag. I don't downvote. I don't really want to. And I am not sure what to think. Maybe voting and liking should be kept separate instead of combined on Steemit.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

The problem is that we as minnows can't outvote the powerful players, because your vote for witness has the weight of your Steempower. So even if 1 Million people with 1 SP would vote for a witness. 1 Person with 2 Million SP would have double the power of the 1 Million other people. Facebook bought Whatsapp for 18 Billion. I think steemit is a lot more worth than Whatsapp. So Facebook can destroy steemit in a blink, if the current power structure will not change...

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joeyarnoldvn (61) · 6 years ago

Some people will always have a lot more than you, but that does not mean you can not do your best each day as something is better than nothing.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago (edited)

At the current time Jerrys Post has 1291 upvotes and 57 downvotes. An amazing 95.77% of the readers of this post have deceived to remove the flag!!!

erodedthoughts (66) · 6 years ago

Try your math again.......

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago (edited)

At this time now it's 1354 upvotes against 173 downvotes. The math should be clear.

But @erodedthoughts let cut the bullshit here. It is not about you or me. I am really trying here to save the future of steemit.

Image I am Edward Snowden and build a blog here with 39.000 followers reporting about what the NSA does. With the flag the US government or any single rich person, could step in and destroy that blog within a week.

Image I am a gay person building a blog here over 5 years and suddenly one rich gay-hating person steps in and ruins my blog within a week.

Do you think I can anyone in this world, that has an opinion against the status quo, recommend to build a blog on steemit?

I am fighting for steemit here with my comments. It's not about you are me or jerry. It's about the removal of the flag.

erodedthoughts (66) · 6 years ago (edited)

The math should be clear but you keep forgetting to add in the paid for votes by Jerry as well as all of the minimum SP accounts Jerry made as a witness to upvote himself, you are forgetting that Jerry does not vote for anyone unless they pay him for a vote, you forget that Jerry has said he does not type his own post, you have forgotten that Jerry has wasted plenty of "budget" money to pay his own friends back for purchased votes, you seem to either forget or not understand a lot of issues but have a very big and vocal opinion of what to do about nothing except letting scammers like Jerry walk away with everyone else's money while giving nothing back to the community.

But looking at your voting habit's it doesn't look like you care too much about the community either, so I don't see any point in even having this conversation with you as you are all about your own pocket and not the community.

Screenshot-2018-6-30 SteemWorld (beta).png

And we already have the types of accounts you used as your imaginary what if's above sitting at almost 70 REP with very fat earned from upvotes wallets. Maybe you should spend more time reading other people's blogs and less time upvoting yourself.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago (edited)

I must admit that I am relatively new to steemit and not aware about many things you mentioned. I will inform myself better and comment no further. I was just hoping that we could find a better way to deal with Jerry.

I still think my Edward Snowden Argument is valid and I just can pray that the Steem-witnesses will make it for people like him also possible to build a huge blog on steemit. If Edward Snowden already has an steemit account, don't you think it is in danger once it is really big. I mean the NSA could power up SP and destroy the blog. The solution don't has to be the removal of the flag, but maybe there is another way.

Thank you for taking time and effort to reply to me!!!

erodedthoughts (66) · 6 years ago

Jerry is mainly being flagged to nothing on this post as the community is calling his bluff of leaving. We have been waiting a long time for Jerry to take his ball and go home. He is a toxic influence on this platform by way of affirmation videos and affinity fraud. He often leads with bullshit titles to draw people in with click bait and pulls the fast switch causing more trouble than his lies do, to begin with.

As far as Edward Snowden goes, the oppressor or would be government would have to buy a fuck ton of Steem Power to wield a flag of oppression upon that account, which would make everyone's account more valuable. The same big users who are flagging now can very easily reverse that flag with upvotes. The problem is you're speaking about removing a useful feature designed to keep people from draining the well dry with cries of future what-ifs. Right now we need flags to deal with users like Jerry who fluff their post to $1,000's of dollars while making scam video's on YouTube pulling in people under a false promise, they are the ones who are the ones who get hurt and leave.

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patrickczu (59) · 6 years ago

Ok I understand better now. For you calling me out on upvoting myself, I usually upvote the articles I read, 2-3 a day with a 100%, I also upvote people who comment meaningful on my posts, but the rest of my votes or on a day when I am busy with to much work, I am guilty to upvote myself. Will think about doing it differently!

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taskmaster4450 (78) · 6 years ago

Is downvoting the reason why BTC is down over $14K? Why LTC lost more than 70%?

Did that cause the marketcap to go from $800B to $250B? Was the entire market downvoted?

You make a good point about discussion of this topic (like any topic on STEEM) but I do not think the crash in STEEM price is due to downvoting. Crypto price crashes seem to be the norm for 2018.

joeyarnoldvn (61) · 6 years ago (edited)

STEEM price declines partly through flags like Jerry said, to some extent, allegedly, probably, but like you said, most of the drop is from, like you said, from the fall of Bitcoin which may be related to how Bitcoin has a reaction to the Dollar, generally speaking it seems, for now. In the future, as Bitcoin grows, then Bitcoin can then continue to be more independent from whatever the Dollar and other fiat, AKA centralized money, may or may not be doing.

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bammbuss (63) · 6 years ago

it makes you think!

coininstant (66) · 6 years ago

Thanks @jerrybanfield, at least someone is looking out for STEEM! Resteemed!

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ausbitbank (73) · 6 years ago

This is the best news I've heard in ages. Bye Jerry!

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jarvie (70) · 6 years ago

Ouch. haha

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sonu4012 (37) · 6 years ago (edited)

great content of video, we are looking this type of many questions about steem . keep it up

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sentanu74 (51) · 6 years ago

I totally agree with you jerry. stakeholders need plankton or minnow like me and others. so why don't they give more votes. rather than just flaging or downvote us.

Posted using Partiko Android

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

Dont you know the answer? comon, use youre brain, think, grasshopper!!!

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san190 (38) · 6 years ago

Hi @jerrybanfield .....I think Steem never fail. It is almost impossible, as it has @steemit, @Dtube and @Dlive and many other things. These have a huge number of users (250,000 unique visitors every day). It will surely rise within few weeks. At least I believe it. A major reason for the lower price of steem dollar is unstability of @Bitcoin. Bitcoin will also rise quickly .

statistics

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joeyarnoldvn (61) · 6 years ago

Thanks for the chart.

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san190 (38) · 6 years ago

Hi @joeyarnoldvn..... welcome. Can you please upvote my post or comment?It's very important to me as I am new here.

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martie7 (62) · 6 years ago

I upvoted your post!

250,000 unique visitors every day

wow! Steem so popular...

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san190 (38) · 6 years ago

Thanks @martie7

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joeyarnoldvn (61) · 6 years ago

Upvoted. Jerry, are you on Gab or Minds? Should we separate the likes from votes? I think I'm going to start a post about this.

Like & Vote

Steemit combines upvotes and likes. On Facebook, & other social networks, we have likes. But there is no money, rewards, Steem, Bitcoin, involved, generally. It can be better to separate likes & upvotes.

View Count

We want view counters back on posts so we can see how many people are looking, watching, scanning, reading, glancing, at our posts, comments.

Downvotes?

Whether or not we should have downvotes or not comes down to whether we want Steemit to be run through socialism or through free markets. Many people, in many countries, believe in socialism, even if they say they don't. They believe that everything should belong to everybody. In other words, if you make a lot of money on Steemit, some people may feel you are stealing money from them, AKA the rewards pool. People who may believe in free markets may be fine with it, with supply & demand, & spam & many things can be defined subjectively,m which is another problem. If we want to continue in socialism, we could maybe continue in what we have with trying to share rewards pool. I believe in free markets. I support not downvoting or in separating a dislike (downvote) from potential rewards.

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kirkins (66) · 6 years ago

Agree, I question the current aristocracy of whales on Steemit now because they are socialist in nature.

That is why attacking @Haejin is so popular. They want to show they are the "moral whales" by protecting us from being stolen from.

The truth is there efforts would be much better spent improving Steem, promoting steem, and growing the overall value of the coin.

They act like reward pool is a limited amount, when in reality by improving the site with good content and applications we can expand the overall value of the reward pool.

We can all win in a free society.

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joeyarnoldvn (61) · 6 years ago

Obama told Africans they can't have air conditioning, because like an allegedly limiting rewards pool, there is just not enough money or resources or whatever to allow everybody to be rich or whatever. Some people believe in that. I do not. Who is this @Haejin?

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robertantoni (45) · 6 years ago

in a crazy world who is the sane? This question comes out because no one can say who is right and who wrong because the criteria of each person is different and the pespertiva depends on the question in which one looks if an author publishes a topic about religion and a bigger one in reputation and simple investment he does not like it can caudarle considerable damage to the account of the author but if that person was voted 100 people with his low accounts because they liked the publication in the same way he who made a negative vote would be damaging the author regardless of the opinion of 100 readers and that would not be fair, that's why the punishment system should be changed

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https://dlive.io/video/splatterhaus/c94f5ad0-796c-11e8-827c-49f76fdbeab3

splatterhaus (53) · 6 years ago

Steem gettin kicked in this bear market.... but we do need to fix that!

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tdiv7653 (55) · 6 years ago

In reading the comments to this post it's clear what the problem is and it's simple and seen everyday: When someone disagrees with someone else they try to keep that persons idea from being heard/seen/read. It's along the same lines as people who call themselves anti-fascists, yet do everything they can to physically keep anyone with an opposing viewpoint to speak. Down-voting and flagging are used not only to single out stolen content but just as much to "get back" at someone who the down-voter doesn't like. So, in a nutshell: It's not the platform but childishness within the platform.

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aadil786 (46) · 6 years ago

@jerrybanfield thanks for given helpful information, on my opinion the reason for @steemit down is because whole @coinmarketcap is crash, i'm pretty sure when market will recover @steemit boost one more time. now market on blushing behavior, and as per my experience in the market, after couple of days @Bull-Run will come. you and me will see where steem is going.

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sarfaraz6699 (34) · 6 years ago

Yes market is very much down now a days. once it changes its gear up then @steemit would go higher and higher.

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aadil786 (46) · 6 years ago

@sarfaraz6699 yes you are right. we need a patient and support @cryptocurrency

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luis01gs (44) · 6 years ago (edited)

La ralidad de esto, es que quien publica en steemit, es porque quiere su crecimiento, si el post xx no es de mi agrado, no entiendo porque votarlo negativamente, un comentario o un grito a tiempo puede salvar vidas, pienso que lo importante de todo es el engrandecimiento de nuestra plataforma y que todos salgamos beneficiados, que ayudemos al necesitado y alentemos al menesteroso, con el objeto de ganar todos

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touseefk (30) · 6 years ago

If You Want That The Market Again Up Then Invest Some Billion Of Dollar then Definitely will Up Soon. You Known What I am Talking About.........

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muchukunda (47) · 6 years ago

Don't panic respected sir, just patient and hold I think it will give a large number of profit in few months. Becoz this is the best platform/coin at present time.

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sudipta87 (25) · 6 years ago

don't worry , it'll get up again...this is time to buy it.

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abdex9 (64) · 6 years ago

It's really interesting reading through. I agree with some of your points. My own suggestion is that the registration process on steemit should be checked. My friends are complaining about the registration. People are losing interest. When will steemit compete with the likes of Facebook? By 2030 right.😂

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mirroroftime (50) · 6 years ago

@jerrybanfield ,
the major reason of steem price is low bcoz the total market cap down frm next 3 months. Is is possible that next month steem and other crypto runs bullish sighnals.

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emmasumner (56) · 6 years ago

I’ve always seen the downvoting thing as a form of bullying.

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myplanet (25) · 6 years ago

when market in bull run the price of steem increase 5 time.

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ashoksamaddar (25) · 6 years ago

I do not suppose that the price of bitcoin will decrease and the prices of steamed coins will be reduced. It's perfectly It's all about depends on the how many people are bye and how many people are sale
When buyers capacity are increased than the market value of steemit value to upwards
If the sealer value decrease than matket value of steemit are go to downward

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heer (33) · 6 years ago

@jerrybanfield
steem coin can rise their value through steem community it they want..steem community should support steem coin to stable it and to raise its demand with in the community as well as community should believe on steem dollar...

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nowusa (30) · 6 years ago

Steem (upper case) is generally used to refer to the platform and steem to refer to the currency itself. The name was inspired by the word ‘esteem’ coupled with the fact that steem is a homophone for steam, which has associations with power. Traders can speculatively trade steem on various cryptocurrency exchanges while content creators can aim to make a living or at least to subsidise the content they create by using the Steem platform.

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amina-khalid (7) · 6 years ago

Yeh ,we should do some thing fastly as soon.i agree by your posting.u say right .it is time of some do.we all help this work just now.each body should not stay from them alonely.

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elixer (39) · 6 years ago

Why the fuck you lying?
Why you always lying?
Mm oh my god, stop fucking lying
Always lying to me

Bitch, please stop denying.

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wta-cryptofx (45) · 6 years ago

steem price hit double bottom in D1 chart current price 0.000233 sat. As btc dominance increasing alts can go more deeper . if steem price break at this level price will take time to go up. My prediction steem can go 0.000184 sat.

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bibekchandra (55) · 6 years ago

How do we increase the value of steem is a good question... But in order to increase steem price we have to make this steemit platform successful like facebook and twitter..so that people will aware of it more and will start using steemit rather than those centralize social media apps which are already corrupted.. I hope steem will be the next big platform for social media...thank you steemit and community...

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gauravsahni (31) · 6 years ago

Steem is also a part of Crypto Currency & bitcoin is mother currency of Crypto Currency if fluctuation in bitcoin rate happens so all the currencies will effect because the all currencies is connected with bitcoin.... Now a days we can see bitcoin price is unstable & it goes down constantly so the all currencies will automatic goes down... so the stability of bitcoin rate is more important to grow for other currencies.....

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sampathkumar (40) · 6 years ago

good post

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future24 (75) · 6 years ago

Wow, very detailed article full of valuable thoughts, thanks for sharing @jerrybanfield!

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devkapoor423 (47) · 6 years ago

Yes Mr. @jerrybanfield here is some confusion about the reward criteria of upvoting and resteeming.......
and I'm still in fear about my growth. I don't know how to get more and more reputation here on Steemit.
so @jerrybanfield can you explain here "how to grow on Steemit"??
because I wanna grow my reputation but I'm getting failed to grow..
keep your support to @devkapoor423
Love & thanks @jerrybanfield

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doctorhealth (44) · 6 years ago

Why did that bot blacklisted you?

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sudipmukherjee1 (28) · 6 years ago

What happen if steem value goes to zero?such a great research...

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ravisinghmar (29) · 6 years ago

It's all about manipulation in the bitcoin when bitcoin is manipulated by whales the all market effected.
@jerrybanfield

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ranahussnainali (43) · 6 years ago

will it continue to fall or 1 can expect a bloom sooner in STEEM market?

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postpromoter (63) · 6 years ago

You got a 89.76% upvote from @postpromoter courtesy of @jerrybanfieldroi!

Want to promote your posts too? Check out the Steem Bot Tracker website for more info. If you would like to support the development of @postpromoter and the bot tracker please vote for @yabapmatt for witness!

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amol7567 (25) · 6 years ago

hi good

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smartaqaa (28) · 6 years ago

Best time to buy now.

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amankumar011 (25) · 6 years ago

@jerrybanfield please suggest me how to maximise profit when suddenly price pf steem low? or high ...

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anirudhi (15) · 6 years ago

Steemit will be 0 price soon.. As there r paying bots ..whom we pay n they will increase our votes ..cheaters..this is not a real community...it can never becomelike facebook...bitcointalk...so for me dont as u r rich enough by sbd...pls sell them in binance ..as soon it will go to zero..full scam like Michael stollaire of titanium bar and as a advisor of ETN electroneum..be aware..now stollare is behind bars..this can be done by steemity...as this is not real community...Bc boss i m fm india i know how bitcoin price increases after demonterization of 500 n 1000 rs..bitcoin rises to all time high...india is that country who make mark jukerberg....so if u like answer me or tell steemit to blockme..we Indians have blessing of Aghori baba..

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jayant08 (43) · 6 years ago

@jerrybanfield thank you my frind your blog is such an awesome

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kishor7070 (41) · 6 years ago

@jerrybanfield I think that there is no need to worry brother for now as current market is bearish steem is following it and this is why the price is too low . Wait for few days as btc becomes stable we will see a great rally in steem. Am i right ?

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amar15 (70) · 6 years ago

Thank you so much for sharing your opinion Sir, We are 100% agree with you. I have seen one person who created post against, it's really painful for everyone who got unwanted flagged without any proper reason......

I am your student and I learned everything about steem from you. I need one favor from you I am creating my post after a lot of researches however I getting a very bad response from steamers. Please check my post and let me know my mistakes....

I will be grateful to you if you read my post- Is BTC a Blind Game-https://steemit.com/cryptocurrency/@amar15/is-bitcoin-a-blind-game-do-you-know-the-drawbacks-of-cryptocurrency
and give me ur suggestions I am waiting for your response. It will helpful for me to grow my Network.
Thank you :)

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basant111 (44) · 6 years ago

crypto market is risk business It is high return high risk

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iftekharfx (25) · 6 years ago

Hi @jerrybandfield very encouraging topic and explained clearly of all the possibilities of low steem price.. mainly all cryptos follow mother currency BTC, wait for the right time.. as per my observation.. bull can run at any point of time..

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rhn268 (59) · 6 years ago

@jerrybanfield Hey Bro...today I'm looking for how to deposit a SBD on your Steemit account on YouTube and suddenly I got your video over their the bittrex One! I really like this video how you simply explain over their, your attitude towards audience and all!!
So I'm try to buy SBD through a Bitcoin Cash but the address is not acceptable over here so what should I do??? I'm from India and I'm using Zebpay Application for crypto currency Trading and the application is not accepting a Bitcoin Cash Wallet address. It showing me a invalid address!! How can buy a SBD now?

One more thing how can I make money from my post? Actually I got a lots upvote and comments but the profit is in Cent's!! So please guide me I hope you have a enough free time! If you have a enough time then please go through my profile Once and let me know how should I grow on steemit here only!! I would love to see your upcoming blogs So that's why I'm following you Thanks!

Regards,
@rhn268

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pavan1 (25) · 6 years ago

Hole market is down. Good time is coming.......

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