Yesterday was a lousy day with no drawings and a lot of accounting. After two years of waiting the tax people finally asked for documentation on my crypto adventures. Due to some rather harsh cost savings ordered by the Parliament, the Danish tax system almost collapsed, and foreign vultures came in and swindled the Danish state for billions of Crowns. There has been little time to consider what to do with the technological developments like crypto. The other day I meet with a Norwegian guy who I know through Diaspora and he said that the Norwegians have it all up and running, so I guess that it will also come here. In time.
After talking in the phone with the tax official we agreed that I could probably just make a general explanation about Steem and how it works and then a few key numbers. The rest is easy to see in my BTC wallet. Steem has pretty much followed Bitcoin and just before I sold December 16-17 2017, I had had a lot of SBD donations which I could find with this great tool.
But I haven't really found any tool that makes it possible to query the Steem blockchain. I will begin to take a weekly html copy of my wallet, but it would be nice if you could actually find some of all these public data. They are there, but in all practicality they are unreachable :)
Does anyone know if I have overlooked something? Are there any tools that can be used to collect for example rewards, and transfers historically on a specific account?
Har du prøvet www.steemworld.org?
Jeg har også snakket med skat omkring crypto og steem. Dengang sagde de at hver transaction skulle beskattes med samme skat som når man trader aktier, hvilket ville blive meget i længden.
Hvad sagde de til dig?
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OK, Steemworld er helt sikkert noget jeg kan bruge. Tusind tak!
Da jeg solgte i 2017 betalte jeg dem for at give mig et bindende svar. Problemet er at jeg ikke selv har investeret så meget som en krone, men tjent pengene eller har fået dem doneret for min kunst og min tegneserie. Så der er ingen investering og ingen varesalg (det kunst jeg laver som katharsisdrill er creative commons). Der gik så 9-10 måneder og så fik jeg et brev om at de ville lave torskegilde på mit firma. Det var selvfølgelig OK, men der var ingen snak om mit bindende svar. et par måneder efter ringede de endlig og sagde at de kunne aflyse det bindede svar hvis der var en kørende skattesag, men det var jo åbenlyst noget vrøvl når skattesagen kom næsten et halvt år efter at de burde have svaret. Manden jeg snakkede med indrømmede det ikke direkte, men det lå som en usagt ting at de har fået lavet sagen med mit firma fordi deres jurister ikke var klar til at lave en afgørelse der kunne skabe præcedens.
Så de skylder mig faktisk en hurtig og rimelig behandling. Og fordi den største del af det jeg tog ud under alle omstændigheder er kursgevinst (95% eller sådan noget, jeg solgte stort set på dagen hvor Bitcoin toppede) så lod han mig forstå at han kunne ansætte skatten efter skøn. Men lad os nu se hvad han siger. Skattefolk behandler tit kunstnere som lort fordi de ikke kan forstå andet end deres eget lille lønmodtager-perspektiv, men som sagt så ved de godt at jeg har fremlagt alt fra begyndelsen og at de har skodet mig i to år. jeg vil med glæde betale dem pengene bare for at få det overstået.
Jeg har rykket alt hvad jeg har over i Steem her mens prisen var lav. Jeg ved ikke om det overhovedet giver mening som en indtægt i fremtiden, så jeg bruger mest stedet her som reklamesøjle for min kunst.
Hvad gør du så nu med dit Steem regnskab? Samler du alle transaktionsdata og sender til dem?
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Så lidt, steemworld.org er et fantastisk værktøj :D
Sindsygt alle de ting du skal igennem bare fordi de ikke selv ved hvordan det skal beskattes x) Håber det løser sig i fremtiden.
Jeg gør intet med steem. I har kun investeret indtil videre, jeg har ikke taget noget ud eller vekslet til anden crypto og heller ikke solgt.
Jeg ser det ligesom indexfunde, jeg indbetaler pt til 2 indexfunde og det udbytte jeg får fra de 2 fonde ryger automatisk ind i pujlen igen uden jeg rører dem.
Det er sådan jeg ser SP, compoured interest.
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Jeg har også bare akkumuleret det som SP. Men jeg tog lidt af det ud i marts 2017 og lidt i dec. Det meste af det jeg har var Bitcoin donationer og de er jo ret nemme at have med at gøre.
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Noget nemmere ihvertfald :D
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I don't know if there are tools, but using my Python tutorial, you could just make one yourself ...
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I might just be able to go with a general overview this time, but I definitly need to collect the data in the future. Do you have a link for the tutorial?
EDIT: I just saw your profile :)
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We are yet to get here on our end. Our taxman still believes crypto is a no go zone and actually is advising the larger community to cease from even thinking of investing in crypto. I believe you are better off than me :D
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Yes, seems that I am. Controlling the money is important for the ons in power.
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How does Denmark tax income earned in virtual currencies on online gaming platforms?
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I am not sure the tax people even know themselves. I have never invested one dime in crypto, but earned it through Steemit and donations. I sold December 17 2017 and asked for them what to do in Feb. 2018 - they only first returned now. They are at their wits end, but I hope they just give me an amount and then I'll gladly pay it to end this mess.
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Finland taxes virtual currency income from online games and entertainment platforms only when taken off the platform.
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Yes, it is about the same in Denmark as far as I understand. They tax it like shares, but that mean they have to calculate exchange gains and losses at the time the transaction happens. With steem you have maybe 10-20 post/comment reward each day and 20-30 curation rewards... that really adds up over a year. In this case he said that I could make an explanation on how Steem works and a general overview, but it is very hard to find the historical data, say for a quarterly day or so. I had a lot of donations close to the point and I only sold SBD so I can probably convince him that it is those money I used. I sold in the very days Bitcoin topped and 95% of it is therefore probably exchange gains and taxable. But I can hear that they sort of owe me for ditching me for so long so I am not that concerned.
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I wrote:
Katharsisdrill:
No. Virtual currency earned in online games and entertainment platforms is not taxable at the moment a transaction takes place (when a player gains possession of a virtual currency used in an online game) in Finland. It is really only taxed when it exchanged for virtual currencies external to the platform, fiat or goods or services. Our tax guidance is very clear on that. Say, if you pick up virtual mushrooms in some games and you get paid virtual dollars for them, the virtual dollars are not taxable income until you cash them out into real dollars. That's how it should work. Nothing else makes any sense. There are hundreds of millions of children playing MMOGs all over the world. The number of transactions is so large and so few games provide any tools suitable for accounting for their value in a way acceptable to every possible country that only taxing cashed out virtual income makes sense.
Considering Steem income taxable at the moment the virtual currencies are received is a nightmare scenario. First of all, the data is not available and not easily calculable. If your tax guidance allows it, Steem income is best treated as income from an MMOG in which case it may not be taxable at all until it's cashed out or swapped for BTC or something is bought with it. I'm guessing a lot of people are not paying any taxes on their Steem income. Nearly everyone is anonymous here so the chances of getting caught are minimal.
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Ah, OK! that way. I really hope that will be the way they eventually do it here too. I'll ask the man who I should write to propose it.
It seems both Norway and Finland are ahead of Denmark in this.
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