RE: Downvote Pool Deep Dive

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Downvote Pool Deep Dive

in steem •  6 years ago 

Maybe try and fix the real problem with downvotes first:

Downvotes, as only corrective measure create a situation where there is real insentive to choose more disruptive use of stake to maximize profit (running a bid not, messing up the trending pages and messing up the reputation system) over less disruptive behaviour for maximizing proffits (commenting on your own posts and upcoming those comments).

Currently bid not owners are abusing the reward pool while being more or less bullet proof as long as they don't post or comment. The worst of the bid bot users, through using bid bots all of the time boost their reputation enough to gain the higher ground against most potential down voters, as we have all learned retaliation is a bitch and down voting someone with a higher (in this case, false-) reputation than you isn't wise.

Have a look at the results from this poll. While opinions differ on what behaviour by passive stake holders is preferable, everyone seems to agree running a bidbot is not.

I mentioned two possible measures in my counter proposal post that could help actually address creating the preferable incentives instead.

  • Make reputation impact of upvotes opt-in and document it as being meant only to be used by actual personal user wallets, not by bid bots. That would address much of the false reputation created by bid bots today.
  • Implement a blockchain wide advertising economy. For users, bid bots are free limited scope advertising. Provide them with better alternatives, and not only would that disincentive bidbots, it will also create a tool for drawing in new top content providers, away from other blogging and blogging platforms.

As with the linear convergent rewards that is a bad idea once you do the math, because it does nothing to incentify huge fish to behave, whilst hitting new users disproportionally hard, this part of the proposal too is more likely to worsen the platform economics than to better it.

I know these posts are done mostly for show and you guys already have made up your minds about implementing these "features" as long as the top witnesses are on board (and it seems most of those guys are easily confused by a bit of high school level math), but in the end, these three measures seem to all be tailored specifically, not to improve the economic position of the platform within the world ecconomy but to improve the ecconomic position of Steemit Inc within the STEEM economy. I hope I am wrong about this, and that you will look at the arguments against these specific measures and alternatives suggested my me and others.

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The Reputation system is useless and not trustless anyways. So in no case should people be looking at that as a way to trust people on this network. Since you can buy reputation from bots. It started broken.

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

There is already blockchain wide advertising economy. It a called promoted, you send SBD to promote a post and it gets burned as the sbd is sent to the @null account, countering inflation. The post is then presented in an obscure place that you might have wandered into out of sheer boredom or initial curiosity, the promoted section.

You don't need to mess with the bidbot reputation, all you need to do is downvote the people who use them thereby removing the curation rewards that bidbots get and dissuading the user from buying his way into trending.

The complete failure of promoted I think is why we have bid bots turning trending into what promoted could have been. A better and broader advertising economy could be more than just a money burning feature. It could pull in top content providers with add revenues paid out in SP, while allowing STEEM users the opportunity to buy targeted advertising without having to move funds out of the STEEM economy. A fully functioning revenue sharing adds economy that isn't just inward facing I think could remove most incentive to use bid bots as way to mock a working promoted feature.

The only reason why promoted is what it is, IMO, is that it's been relegated to the last section where it has zero exposure. The simplest thing is to change the home page to promoted. It has been like that before bidbots, bidbots began because of the ability to delegate and linear rewards which allows them to calculate with utmost precision how much to return to those that delegate and how much to vote. Burning money is the best mechanism for increasing value as far as I'm concerned, up to a point as a scarce token is not valuable since it cannot be freely transacted and instead turns into a store of value and traded sparcely.

Posted using Partiko Android

The simplest thing is to change the home page to promoted.

Yup, the simplest thing should have been the more you burn, the higher up in trending you go. Instead, we have trending based on rewards, which is super easily gamed.

Meh. Not like they would change it.

  ·  6 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

What makes more sense than changing the home page to promoted (few people want to see only ads) is to include a few of the promoted posts on the trending page like pretty much every other major internet site with similar content (reddit, google search results, many news sites, etc.)

I mean anything to give someone demand for using that feature, otherwise it's like a useless gimmick.

Yes, that and not burning all of it, but allow people making a blog post to opt in to advertising and advertising revenues. There are top content providers that won't ever make the move to STEEM today, and surely won't if the screw-new-users-over convergent linear rewards were implemented, that might be sueded by swapping their current reliable add revenues by reliable add revenues in SP plus the chance to play orca/whale lottery that by itself clearly isn't pulling in any of the big guns.

You're not supposed to talk about that!!

Too much drama.


You've got DRAMA. You are going to be a Whale!

To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.

  ·  6 years ago Reveal Comment

Except that the lack of exposure for promoted has been around way before bidbots came into play..

Posted using Partiko Android


You have DRAMA!

To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.