Hi guys, I hope you're all doing well. I'm working on issuing @tipU tokens using the fantastic steem-engine platform and need some feedback ;)
The Idea Behind @tipU Tokens
I will be going into more detail with this in the next posts but I'm planning to issue tokens backed by @tipU STEEM POWER. Currently @tipU has 21,618 own SP (SP that does not come from delegations). Out of those 7,507.323 SP is reserved to generate profit for the investments - coming from deposits and auto-reinvest functionality.
This leaves us with 14,946.743 SP that can be used to generate additional profit for new/current users and I'm planning to distribute this profit thanks to @tipU tokens. But there's one thing I'm not quite sure about.
Limited vs Unlimited Supply
First, this 14,946.743 SP is steadily growing each day. I can "reserve" it so it's not being used by the investments and instead it can generate profit for the future @tipU token holders. But we've got 2 possible approaches here:
1. Limited Supply:
Let's say that only 10 000 tokens will be ever issued and it can never go higher (steem-engine allows to limit this).
This means that each token will be backed by 1.494 SP - so in other words, if you have 1 token, @tipU will share it's profit like if you have delegated 1.494 SP. And the cool thing is that over time each token should be backed by growing amount of SP which should provide a steady growth to the token's value.
This process can be additionally accelerated by allowing users to request upvotes for the tokens. Doing so would destroy the tokens so the total supply would shrink. Now this growing amount of SP would be divided between smaller amount of tokens. Neat, especially for token holders.
Cons? Well, the steem blockchain mechanics (reward distribution, vests, STEEM, SP, SBD and many other concepts) are quite complicated and I'm afraid that many users will have a problem with grasping this idea. After all, many users still think that @tipU is just a simple bidding bot :D But there's an alternative:
2. Unlimited Supply:
Simple: 1 token = 1 SP. If you have 20 tokens, you will receive profit like if you have delegated 20 SP. And I can actively print/destroy tokens to keep the 1 token = 1 SP peg.
It's much easier to understand and much easier to predict the profit. But it doesn't have this nice build-in mechanic of increasing value over time, which I really like.
So - let me guys know what do you think :) Which one is better? Are you even interested in buying, holding and trading tokens like this? Maybe I should consider completely different approach? See you in the comments!
PS. @tipU website to monitor and manage the delegations/investments/tokens is in production. Soon(TM).
PS2. Of course there's gonna be an airdrop for @tipU delegators :)
Limited supply 🏆
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I love the token idea - with fixed supply. The unlimited supply token is ultimately pointless, there would be no difference between buying a token, or delegating SP, so the tokens value would remain flat and just add complexity for you guys in admin.
My suggestion would be to fix supply and distribute 60% of profits from @tipu's own SP to token holders. This effectively gives 60% "ownership" of that SP to token holders, with the remaining 40% covering the other items you mentioned - "generate profit for the investments - coming from deposits and auto-reinvest functionality."
An added incentive to grow the SP base for token holders could be a daily report produced - set to power up 100%. This would give token holders a powerful incentive to upvote daily this report and boost the own SP (thus token holder profits). I think this would be preferable to burning tokens for votes and foster a steadily growing price for the tokens. The report could cover off daily upvote stats, profitability of delegating, and details of the token economics each day.
Just my 2cents worth. I would definitely buy tokens with a hard cap supply but probably wouldn't buy unlimited supply tokens.
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+1 👌
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Thanks for the feedback!
Well, you should be able to sell the tokens on the market and instantly receive your STEEM back. For SP you need to power down and wait 3 months so that was my basic idea why the tokens can be useful in this scenario.
Instead I think that 100% of the @tipU own SP profit will go to the token holders, with @tipU holding the majority of tokens. I can then use them for, for example, as a cashback mechanic for upvote buyers - just in case the competition between the voting bots heats up :) Or sell them later on to obtain funds for a new project.
This sounds a bit like "selfish" voting (upvote me and I will give it back) and many users, including whales, are not a fan of that. Thanks again!
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The idea of the limited supply based on your growing SP seems like the only way to increase value over time. Is there a way to issue 1 token per delegated SP and the amount of tokens you hold earns you a larger share of the 14,946 profits. Not sure if this would just equal out to the same as a limited supply...
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Yeah, I think this is how we'll do it :)
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Limited Supply...tokens are an investment in your TIPU company, a shareholder stake...that’s my thought.
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I like the idea of the limited supply token that grows in value over time.
@tipu profit for 100 sp
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Yesterday 100.0 STEEM POWER delegated or invested gave payout of:
0.004 SBD + 0.042 STEEM (0.02 USD), APR: 18.73% .
Delegation link: steemconnect 100.0 SP delegation to @tipu.
Please note that your profit can be slightly different (depending on the payout time).Check out https://www.steemprofit.info to compare @tipU with other services.
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Always better to go with limited supply.
Fiat is unlimited supply and that can affect the value.
The drawback to the limited supply can be spelled out over time and through education. It seems like a minor drawback compared to the benefits.
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Aye!
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What do you mean will you create a new token? and how can I get it?
I fully support
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Check out steem-engine.com :) Basically SMTs (but centralized, for now at least) made by steem users.
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Will delegators still receive the same percentage of STEEM and SBD they’re currently receiving?
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Yes, nothing will change here.
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What about tipu SMT tokens? They will be released at 24 March.
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I think this date is no longer valid? @steemitblog usually writes about cost reduction and putting SMTs on the backburner, but maybe I'm missing something?
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I thought SMT were delayed too
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why not both 😉
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But how?:)
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My idea is that is be a limited emission line.
It like the limited idea but also with this twist:
Where you get existing token holders to vote to inc the token supply when enough new steem in generated to back it. You might not have any reasons now but you might have one later. Like funding a new project, pay bills or god forbid something bad happens to tipu.
By adding this in the policy you are keeping the integrity of the token online and any people buying shouldn't be to surprised by it.
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I think this would bring uncertainty because with every new tokens issue its' price would drop (more supply).
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Not really for the new token is still (newly) backed and the burn feature is still on. Added the fact existing token holders vote for it to be added not just you. (You can even null your vote for the feature-if you hold alot of the tokens).
Should be no change and new token being added will only happen once in a while
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So back to the basic question: 1 token should be always backed by 1 SP or the ratio should slowly go up?
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The supply should be limited
@tipu profit for 50 sp
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Yesterday 50.0 STEEM POWER delegated or invested gave payout of:
0.006 SBD + 0.014 STEEM (0.01 USD), APR: 20.8% .
Delegation link: steemconnect 50.0 SP delegation to @tipu.
Please note that your profit can be slightly different (depending on the payout time).Check out https://www.steemprofit.info to compare @tipU with other services.
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Thank You for Explaining @tipu and since I am an OLD Stock Broker I always like Stocks and in this Case TOKENS with a Limited Supply. Think Berkshire Hathaway........A Class Stock
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Warren Buffett dont believe in btc or steem tho.
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I like limited supply
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Congratulations @tipu! You have completed the following achievement on the Steem blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :
You can view your badges on your Steem Board and compare to others on the Steem Ranking
If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word
STOPTo support your work, I also upvoted your post!
Do not miss the last post from @steemitboard:
Vote for @Steemitboard as a witness to get one more award and increased upvotes!
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Good Thinking... best of Luck
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Buenas noches,le invito visitar mi blog y pueda darme un buen voto que agradeceria para tratar de ayudarme economicamente ya que en venezuela no hay dinero para comprar comida estamos pasando penurias a pesar de trabajar pero 5$ mensuales imaginese que comprar saludos y le agradezco
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This post is supported by $1.89 @tipU upvote funded by @cardboard :)
@tipU voting service always profitable, instant upvotes | For investors.
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I would always go with unlimited supplies, but it seems that I'm quite lonely with that.
(I don't get why most of the people in the crypto area are thinking that fiat with a central bank adjusting the money supply and the interest would be such a bad thing.)
Having a tool to actively print or destroy tokens gives you the ability to adjust the token to every upcoming change from Steem, @tipU or the Steem engine. This is so much more worth than the chains from the limited supply.
A SP delegation still has the 5 days cooldown period, tokens don't. So it would be an interesting way to see the price difference between those two options.
Unlimited supply gives the token (and with the fiat system every economy) also one very important thing: liquidity.
The token will always be accessible and not some overpriced, inconvenient token due to a limited supply.
With a limited supply, the change in the SP regarding price or amount will always affect the price of the token, which is only based on the supply and demand. But with a limited supply there is basically rarely enough liquidity in the market to get fair prices. Same thing at the stock market, stocks with only one sell per day are so bad in terms of liquidity it is never possible to get a fair working price. That is way better with blue chips where the liquidity is the foundation for a good working price mechanism.
Based on that:
With the unlimited supply there would also the possibility to issue tokens based on the delegation on a day to day basis. As an incentive for the delegation, some extra bonus, like the airdrop in the beginning.
This could be also be perfect to keep the peg. Issuing more or less token, based on the increase of SP.
Something else: I like the idea of auto-reinvest, gaining more and more per day is always a perfect opportunity. But I don’t like that it’s only possible with a deposit of Steem on the @tipU account. Okay, I’m sounding that I’m not trusting @tipU, I know that and I don’t want to be rude, I’m just a little bit concerned. What happens when the system is failing and the bot is not working anymore? The keys to the account are lost thanks to some incident (Whatever the case may be)?
I can only think of two ways to counteract that, a trustee (but where to find a good trustee on the Steem blockchain managing everything?) or an increasing SP delegation from the account which is delegating.
I don’t if it would possible to just send the Steem in form of a power up to the account and then adjusting the Delegation, so that the account is left with a specific amount of SP. For instance I just want to run my account with 100 SP and @tipU would increase the delegation once a day/week to a point where the account will have 100 SP and the rest delegated away.
Would that be possible through Steemconnect or Keychain and some sort of website? (I would already be happy with a simple question from time to time “Do you want to increase your delegation to X amount? Click here and sign it with keychain.”)
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That is a very valuable input :) You're right about the liquidity. The way I want to resolve this is to issue 10 000 000 tokens so every tokens is backed by 0.0014 SP (around). I hope that with this amount of tokens users will be more willing to trade them. Plus is cooler to receive 3 tokens than 0.003 token :)
Exactly. Wonder if I can somehow find the middle ground here...
I think I would need users active keys to do that :/
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Even a high amount issued in the beginning will run into the same problems based on the fixed supply. The owner/buyer of the tokens know that the amount is limited and they will speculate that the price will rise so they have a decent gain. So they will hold it just for that purpose.
Reduced velocity, reduced volume, bad liquidity.
I might be wrong, but most of the comments are already pointing out that they like the value increase, which means they want that and not to move the tokens around.
This can be appreciated, if you want to limit the amount of token holders instead of creating new ones along the way.
Also I would think of an exit strategy in the case of the limited supply just to be on the safe side and to be able to pull the plug without getting the whole anger of the token holder. We never know what will happen to Steemit, @tipU or steem engine.
Exactly and I'm still trying to figure a way around that. I know that steemconnect needs the active key once to create a token which has the same posting abilities like the posting key. But the app never gets the keys.
https://steemit.com/steempeak/@steempeak/how-to-use-steempeak-with-your-posting-key#@jpphotography/re-steempeak-how-to-use-steempeak-with-your-posting-key-20180707t072337039z
I don't know if that would be possible like an active token. So that @tipU gets an active token to be able to delegate stuff (and would actually be able to send money around).
I guess it's just a Steem blockchain issue, that we are not able to give @tipU permission just for delegating to @tipU which would be exactly enough.
For the time being: I know that @tipU can deliver automated replies to comments with steemconnect delegation links.
How about two opt ins:
One for @tipU sending directly SP instead of Steem (and with that converting the SBD into Steem for SP, the swap feature seems to be there for that).
And another Opt-In for a reply/message after the SP reached a level that a update of the delegation would be useful with a link to steemconnect for exact that amount.
For instance: Someone has 1100 SP and is delegating 1000SP to @tipU, he gets then 100SP out of rewards etc., @tipU informs him on his next post/comment or per message that he should update his delegation to 1100 SP to increase his profits and to get some benefit for having more SP now.
I have no idea how popular that would be, how much programming it would take or how good the idea is overall. (Maybe it has a flaw, or that I'm just too lazy to do it myself.)
But I would certainly use the latter option so I can just forget about it until @tipU informs me with a handy link to update the delegation, whenever it's appropiate so I don't bloat the blockchain with daily delegation updates, just to put 0.4 SP to work.
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An idea - what if reinvested part would be paid in tokens? It would increase the share just as it's doing now and users would be able to sell them. Still less secure than powering up users.
Edit: Nah, it's a bad idea - if the token's price drops, users who use auto-reinvest would loose money - and we don't want that :)
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wouldn't that be pretty much staking?
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Kinda yes but still I don't want a possibility for users to loose their money (the reinvested part of profit) in case of token price drop.
What do you think about auto-reinvest paid in STEEM POWER (@tipU would power up users).
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The idea to make the auto-reinvest part to be paid in STEEM POWER (powering up users) is a really nice one because it would free up a lot of @tipU own SP. Also every day more and more SP has to be used to support it, which "cuts" the amount of SP that could be used to support tokens. Not to mention the standard "deposit" functionality.
On one side it's a good moment to completely redesign those two services, on the other - I always liked the fact, that users can just deposit some SBD/STEEM and get an interest from doing so.
I think that many users use those because they can withdrawn the funds at any moment. Probably I'm gonna make a post about it to ask how the investors would feel about the possible change but something tells me it's a too big shift in how @tipU operates.
Also - because it looks that people would prefer to keep the tokens, what are the cons of lower liquidity? Apart from higher possible price coming from speculation (which is not such a bad thing?).
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@tipu status
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Hi @hunter016! Here is your @tipU service user data:
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What's the goal of this?
I'll be able to respond better if I know the answer to the question above.
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@tipu status
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Hi @cardboard! Here is your @tipU service user data:
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@tipu status
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Hi @cardboard! Here is your @tipU service user data:
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@tipu profit for delegate 500sp
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Yesterday 1000 STEEM POWER delegated or invested gave payout of:
0.127 SBD + 0.28 STEEM (0.27 USD), APR: 20.85% .
Delegation link: steemconnect 1000 SP delegation to @tipu.
Please note that your profit can be slightly different (depending on the payout time).Check out https://www.steemprofit.info to compare @tipU with other services.
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@tipu give me the Link delegate for 500 Sp
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Delegate 500 sp to @tipu :)
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Here is the delegation link:
steemconnect 500.0 SP delegation to @tipu.
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Done.
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@tipu profit for 598 sp
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Yesterday 598.0 STEEM POWER delegated or invested gave payout of:
0.076 SBD + 0.167 STEEM (0.16 USD), APR: 20.85% .
Delegation link: steemconnect 598.0 SP delegation to @tipu.
Please note that your profit can be slightly different (depending on the payout time).Check out https://www.steemprofit.info to compare @tipU with other services.
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No thanks, the returns are lower then some other services. So ill pass
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I hope I'm not too late here, I will go for the limited supply. It will be a better reward scheme to the winners of my daily photo contest, since value of tokens is increasing overtime, the holders (contest winners) will feel more motivated knowing that it will benefit them in the long run.
I'm really glad that you're doing this @cardboard / @tipu.🤘
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Check out the newest post ;) The supply woun't be limited but the tokens will gain value over time.
Also you can use steem-engine.com wallet to send some tokens: @tipU send 10 tokens
For now this works only for me because I'm telling @tipU to send tokens that it has in it's wallet. The service can not send tokens that are in wallets of other users.
But I'm planning to add feature where your SBD/STEEM deposit is used to instantly buy and send the tokens to receiver (so sending tips in tokens).
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Thanks for the tokens😊
I just checked the post and website, it's a great tool by the way 💪💪
The idea of tokens being flexible and with increasing value is much better that what I initially suggest, great job on this. Now I will start to build up the Tipu tokens and start spreading to my contest winners.
Thanks for initiating the Tipu tokens🥂
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Success! 10.0 @tipU tokens worth of 10.0 STEEM POWER have just been sent to @photocircle.
@photocircle - you can check out your new investment at: https://tipu.online.
Please validate the transfer at steem-engine wallet.
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Limited supply with value increasing over time will be 👍 great
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