Question for the Witnesses...

in steem •  6 years ago 


If you have been following me since some time you may know that I used to post once a month a short article regarding a simple process I do concerning my Witness Votes. I call this process "Auditing My Witness Votes" the aim of which is to assess if my Votes are used in the most efficient way so, ensuring the proper performance of theSTEEM Blockchain by signing Blocks (signal that the witness works properly) but also I try to check if the owner of the witness keeps being active and supportive for the community, posting and upvoting and also developing.

The following is my current 30 Witness List, all of them working perfectly according to my criteria:

@abit
@actifit
@arcange
@blockbrothers
@blocktrades
@cervantes
@cryptopassion
@curie
@dragosroua
@drakos
@emrebeyler
@fyrst-witness
@good-karma
@gtg
@holger80
@lukestokes.mhth
@mahdiyari
@partiko
@pharesim
@quochuy
@roelandp
@sc-steemit
@steemitboard
@steempeak
@steempress
@swisswitness
@themarkymark
@therealwolf
@yabapmatt

From that list, only 11 out of the 30 are Top 20 Witnesses:

@yabapmatt , @lukestokes.mhth , @blocktrades , @good-karma , @roelandp , @aggroed , @curie , @gtg , @therealwolf , @drakos and @cervantes .

For your information, as an average, a top 20 Witness does currently around 9200 STEEM per month . At today's price of STEEM that means 2800 USD/Month .

Instead, Witness out of the Top 20 but within the first 50, the earnings obtained a month are around 1100 STEEM , i.e 340 USD/Month at the current price.

This number decrease dramatically if you are not one of the 50 first...

The thing here is that many of the witnesses are also struggling with the current price of STEEM, some of them have had to switch off the node because, apparently, the cost of maintaining alive the node surpasses the STEEM earned and so, does not justify to keep the equipment running or just maintaining the rent.

Thus, I can understand that many of the witnesses decide to Power Down their stake in a permanent mode, especially if they are not within the Top 20 witness List.

The fact is that I have seen many of my selected Witnesses powering down and not stopping lately, some of them as I said are Top 20 witnesses and I wonder...

Would not be good to stop powering down and stop withdrawing your STEEM to the exchanges in order to, I would not say increase the scarcity of the STEEM price but, at least, stabilize the price of STEEM in the market at the present times?

Is this not the time for ACCUMULATION?

Is it MORAL to keep feeding the exchanges with such a scarce demand right know?

Would not be better for you to sell your earned STEEM at a higher prices?

...an below the main question for the witnesses which I hope, some of them will reply...

WHAT IS THE MONTHLY COST OF RUNNING A WITNESS NODE/SERVER?

Could we have an averaged monthly value in USD about the Cost of maintaining a server/node running and working efficiently?

Thanks for answering.

@toofasteddie

By the way, many Steemians here do not have the time or maybe they are not interested in doing some research and try to Vote by themselves for the witness they like...If that is your case, choose anyone that you know he would do correctly as a Proxy, which means that your account will exactly replicate the Witness Votes of the proxy account you have chosen.

*Reminder: if you feel like not having time to do a proper analysis and still think that mine is fair , you can also choose me as your proxy that will vote for witnesses for you.

Just, keep using your witness votes doing an important work.



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Business and morality doesn't mix very well. As you know, block producers are here in order to make money. They need to pay the bills. You are a smart person, you also know that. They need to pay them in fiat currency. And as you also know, STEEM price is quiute low right now, so they need to sell more tokens than before in order to pay the fixed amount of USD to their providers -although there would be only one such a provider, but that's another discussion I am not ready to engage now-.

It is their money. They earnt it. Let them do with it whatever they want.

True, but please, keep in mind that witnesses are supposed to be crème de la crème.
There shouldn't be a problem for a world class specialists to upkeep few servers here and there.
Witnesses will potentially earn someday: if/when Steem would succeed.
Some of them can't afford to wait, some of them can't afford to take the risk of waiting.
Some of them would rather chose different opportunities elsewhere.
But I would rather not overestimate the current price of Steem.
Being a witness is more a marathon than a sprint.
Unless someone is a witness just to earn quick.
But still, it's not their fault. It's his voters who did the wrong choice.

I liked your reply, and so I upvoted it. However, I am still thinking that they earn steem because they must keep the infrastructure working and so everyone should expect witnesses to sell their earnt tokens.

What I expect from a witness is a person/entity which is focused on the Steem blockchain -many are already also offering nodes on other blockchains-, showing some kind of transparency on their activities -but not trying to buy our vote by showing their nodes- and if possible adding some value to the Steem eco-system.

I would vote for them in order for them to be higher in the list and have the possibility of earning more block rewards. Because, as is the case when upvoting any post, I think they deserve the rewards.

I am still thinking that they earn steem because they must keep the infrastructure working and so everyone should expect witnesses to sell their earnt tokens.

Of course. (Just not all have to do that)

many are already also offering nodes on other blockchains

Ture. Especially on the blockchains from the "same family", such as BitShares, EOS.
Unfortunately, I'm not able to clone myself to be as engaged on other platforms as on Steem... Otherwise I wouldn't be able to contribute as much as I think it's required.
I have a block production node running on Golos at position #61, so basically I just provide a seed node and witness node to support the network. I don't think that potential rewards are anything close to $1 a month, but my involvement (human resource-wide) is negligible. I'm there to have a better perspective on Steem. After all Golos is a biggest and oldest Steem fork that is still running, so kind of a testnet for me, some different approaches, their own issues and struggles.
Speaking of which: because I'm dedicated to Steem, I can't really contribute to help them in with current issues.
(By the way, @arcange was always very dedicated to contribute there so if any of you happen to have stake out there, IMHO he's the best choice to cast your vote on)

I'm not running own block producers on any other network, but I'm not refusing to help those entities who run or are willing to run block production.

For a price, obviously.

I have a Steem to feed. ;-)

Agree since it is trivial but let me consider to who I will vote for witness depending on this variable as well, which is important though... Steem price is low for everyone not only for them

Of course. It is your Steem Power. Vote for whichever witnesses you want to. You at least are publicly showing your reasons to vote ones over others. It is great.

I am just telling you that it is wrong asking someone to not do anything -business related- because of morality, because morality has nothing to do with business. They earnt that money in a fair way, they didn't steal it. It is their. They are able to spend it the way they wanted. And it has nothing to do on morality.

In bitcoin they have mining. Miners earn bitcoins after producing a new accepted block. In this shit system called DPoS, block producers -aka "witnesses"- earn steem after they create a new block and it is accepted into the blockchain. The blockchain pays to them to perform that job. It is their wage. Not our issue.

Proposta: que et semblaria a tu formar un equip de witness aquí a Barna, tu, jo i potser algú mes amb qui ja he parlat?

Posted using Partiko iOS

No puc. Ni per coneixements tècnics ni per capital. Però teniu el meu vot des de ja mateix. I el meu recolzament també.

Trobo que coincidim quasi al 100% en com ha de ser un witness. De fet, també he vist que no votes a certs witness que jo tampoc votaria en la meva vida. Però haig de refusar sincerament per les raons que he escrit al pàrraf anterior

(És com si sempre denegués totes les propostes que rebo, però no és el cas xDDDD)

Mecagundena Javi! Collons! Jo soc un developer frustrat i sense temps i amb una professió molt estressant a vegades!
Si pogués ja me l’hauria montat el witness node però es que no tinc temps...però potser si que podria aconseguir cert capital si ens unim uns quants... El marky, el tiu que m’ha respòs primer, lloga servers crec, i es per això que ha replicat tant ràpid amb preus i tota la pesca... Crec que 200USD al mes son el tope de gama... i no sè com afectarà la implementació del MIRA però segur que baixarà costos també...
No crec que sigui tant difícil de fer córrer el node i mantenir-ho de tant en tant, amb certes nocions de Linux esclar...

Posted using Partiko iOS

Monthly cost varies dramatically, you can get a witness server for as cheap as $50 USD/month to $200+. Depending on the hardware configuration and provider. Could be even higher from some providers.

Most witnesses above 50 have two witness nodes and an auxiliary server to act as a kill switch (typically only $5 USD/month - $20 USD/month) and potentially other processes not being run on the witness node.

Due to the hardware requirements, not a lot of providers can provide the hardware required to run a proper witness node.

I had looked into setting up a witness server a little while ago. These numbers seem pretty accurate (though, I was dealing with $CAD rather than $USD -- but after conversion I'd say it's pretty close) compared to what I've seen.

Thanks for your fast reply man!
Would be 200$/month the highest cost?

It's higher, but not the highest. You can spend a lot more as the price varies dramatically and keeping it under $200 generally limits you to a very small group of providers.

I see... that means that it is not profitable even for a Top 20 witness so...

Top 20 is profitable for most. Depending on their projects and where the funds go. As the price drops it gets harder. We still have a little room before it isn’t profitable for top 20.

I have always been of the mind set that witnesses don’t get paid enough to do everything people expect them to do. EOS block producers make like 31x what Steem witnesses do.

Typically they expect a witness to run multiple witness nodes, run a full node, delegate most SP to communities, never power down, pay 25-55% in taxes, pay server bills in fiat while getting paid in vested Steem Power that isn’t immediately available, review blockchain code, develop blockchain code, develop apps and services for the community all for less than what a Walmart bagger makes.

I can imagine that being a solvent witness must be a hard work for sure.
Thanks, you have clarified me many doubts I had.

Posted using Partiko iOS

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

Wow for some reasons I’ve missed your post. Somehow it seems that @partiko didn’t show it in the list of posts mentioning me.

I have not any power down but to keep cost down I had to shutdown my seed node and I’m planning to spin one back up when price goes back up a bit and I can justify the expenses because I’m paying off my own money at the moment.

To note that I’m running multiple nodes in addition to the witness node:

All these costs $$ so I’m definitely not running a Witness for the money.

Now to answer your questions.

Should witnesses stop powering down and accumulate until the price goes up? Probably is but then everyone has their own personal issues and might be in a different situation in life. I have a day job and I’m not on Steem to try make a living or anything so I can afford to spend part of my hard earned money to rent servers for the witness and other community projects. It’s not the case for everyone so I can’t judge their decision to power down. I play the long term game and it’s my choice and I have the ability to make that choice.

For the cost of running a witness node, it varies a lot depending on the specs but I’m running a server at $25 a month. It is low spec and is slow to replay (over 24h) but once it reaches the head block it works just fine and for a backup witness at my rank it is doing its job and I will upgrade it as soon as needed.

Excellent @quochoy , thanks for your feedback, work and dedication

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

Damn, I'm late here :/

First, thank you @toofasteddie for the shout out and your unfailing support.

Next, I won't repeat what has already been written by other witnesses about costs, why, etc...

Just to say that I personally runs several server for my witness (main node, backup node, seed node) + a bunch of others servers for the various services/app I provide to the Steem ecosystem (like SteemSQL, SteemitBoard, SteemReply, ...), Spending hundreds of dollars per month for the infrastructure, not taking into account the time required to maintain it.

If I did it for money only, at my current rank I would have already given up for a long time. To me, it's more about passion and commitment.

Witness out of the Top 20 but within the first 50, the earnings obtained a month are around 1100 STEEM, i.e 340 USD/Month at the current price.

EDITED: I don't know how you got such value. Check @quochuy last witness earning report. At virtual rank #40, my earning is far away from that amount. Even @clayop who is ranked #21 does not earn that. (stupid things I wrote removed)

@arcange your rewards for last week according to my report (and thus according to @steemsql) is 199SP which is close to the 200SP reported SteemWorld. That makes it about 857SP for 30 days and at today’s Steem price of $0.41 it’s $350.

Reminder: my report shows weekly numbers.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Oops, my bad. I indeed missed the fact that your reports are weekly.
Thank you for letting me know that I may be financially more comfortable than I thought 😆

Hey! Thanks for giving your feedback here.
I used steemworld to checked it generally and then I averaged...
In the case of @quochuy , the Production rewards are 130.68 SP , in the case of @clayop the amount I s much higher 1981 SP... according to steemworld...

Posted using Partiko iOS

Yeah, I updated my comment.

Thanks for the rundown about witnesses.
At first I was jealous of the witnesses earning.
Man I wish I run a witness as well.
Why they don’t share their earning with the steemians that vote for them?
This is the self-interest me.
Secondly I understand the useful of it and there is a price associated with running a witness and node, etc...
I learned to understand that a stable top 50 witness needs the earning to keep the system safe and intact.
I barely understand the jargon to run a witness (be a developer)
A witness should be able to earn enough and possibly make a living out of it.
A strong and knowledgeable witness will keep #steem blockchain strong.
I learn to appreciate the due diligence to make the blockchain strong.
If possible and with the support of all steemians I may one day run a witness.
Most importantly do it for the love of all steemians and the rewards will come after.
Great post.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Really interesting post mate!

Posted using Partiko Android

Thanks, I felt as someone had to write it...

Posted using Partiko iOS

So true.

Posted using Partiko Android

Well...
I'm one of those who never powered down.
After HF16 there was severe cut in top witness earnings.

I'm one of top witnesses for quite a while and honestly, if one thinks that he's earning as a witness some decent amounts then he's doing something wrong.

IMHO we are still at very early stage of Steem development.
It's heavily undervalued and has a great potential.
(it's not an investment advice!)
Of course, as every project in cryptocurrency realm, even Steem can fail. But I believe that there's a pretty good chance that it will not.

That's why I'm a witness here.
I'm treating block production rewards as a potential rewards for my time and effort that I give to the platform.
I'm learning a lot about all related technology and that brings alone brings me more value than witness rewards at STEEM low prices.

Being a Steem witness IS NOT a bitcoin mining.
It's more than just overseeing some machines that waste energy.

Prices of hardware are irrelevant.
Human resources costs a lot more.

Wow, you are very committed mate, thanks for your reply which I appreciate most.
If I may ask you...200 USD a month would be the averaged cost then?

I'm sorry, I'm not the right person to ask for average :-D

Hehehe, I was expecting this answer, anyway, you have my vote forever and also the vote of those who select me as a proxy 😜... It has been a pleasure to interact a little with you here

Posted using Partiko iOS

Thanks man. Good to hear that!

Posted using Partiko Android

  ·  6 years ago (edited)

When I hear witnesses complain about the price of steem it makes me laugh. They control code drops, testing and are considered community leaders.

If you can't make they can't make a witness work, while I think they do not deserve a wage.

Top20 witnesses maybe, I’m not sure as I’m still low in ranking, but for witnesses outside of the top20, we don’t control anything.

I don’t agree with you saying witnesses do not deserve a wage. The blockchain requires witness nodes to exist and someone needs to pay for those servers. Unless you were expecting witnesses to offer to spin up and maintain those server for free.

Posted using Partiko iOS

Thanks for your vote
I think $50/month is enough for running just one basic Steem node

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