I admit it, I am a user of bid-bots sometimes.. The first step to getting clean is always the hardest. They're just so... useful and rewarding... I sometimes feel I don't have any choice but to use them... The more I stop using them, the more attractive their rewards become..
Image Source: Addiction Blog
In my recent post about neutralising bid bots, I put forward an idea that doesn't involve any kind of control of anyone, but which may result in the playing field in the Steem eco-system becoming more fair. In the comments there I started to feel and realise just how similar the use of bid bots is to a drug addiction or other kind of addiction.. Here's why:
Addictions tend to exist in a way that involves the 'reward circuits' in the brain (involving neuro chemicals such as dopamine and seratonin that are sometimes called the 'feel good' chemicals). Just like gambling, we get a 'hit' of pleasure when taking the repeated action. This has been highlighted by the operators of Facebook as being one of the key psycho-social problems with Facebook and it apparently has them worried.
Gambling addictions often involve gamblers losing massive amounts of money and yet they keep going and don't stop when they do win. This may be because they associate the 'winning' with a gaining of something other than money - like reputation. This scientific study into the neuro chemistry of Facebook use showed that the use of social media was not co-related to financial reward, but could be shown to be related to gains in PERSONAL REPUTATION. Personal reputation (in the form of the reputation number) is directly increased when using bidbots.
Often, addictions are formed by a desire to feel differently/better. The aim of the behaviour that becomes addictive, on an emotional and often subconscious or unconscious level, is to change the way we feel. If we feel unloved, un-empowered and disrespected (as many people do in life currently), then we may be more likely to get involved in an addictive pattern. Although users of bidbots might not think so consciously, there is a chance that some of them are using the bots as a way to try to feel better/safer more respected. (This reminds me of the 'body builders' who use chemicals to literally inflate their muscles, instead of doing actual exercise).
The less demand there is for bid bots, the more the potential ROI increases, which then stimulates more demand. This is similar to the way that drug addicts go through a process of increased 'demand' when withdrawing from use (and also how drug dealers may even lower the prices of their drugs to try to get people hooked again who are going clean).
There are usually justifications to be found for the addictions, such as "it helps me relax" or "it solves a problem that can't be or is too difficult to be solved another way". In some cases, this may be true - but usually (if not really always) there ARE better approaches to the problem and better outcomes possible. I see myself an others say this about bid bot use.
What's the solution?
I am not saying that everyone who uses bidbots is an addict! I am just saying that we would be wise to link up the psychology, neurology and patterns here so that we can be sure we are making the best possible choices for us and our friends.
It is possible to use alcohol, drugs, TV and gamble without being addicted - we need to be conscious to do this and to not lapse into unconsciousness that creates a habit and routine of it. I suggest the same with bid bots - which is why I currently only use them to promote particular posts that I consider to be very important and that the world needs to see (Such as this post about organ harvesting in China).
It is far better to take action to get to the root causes of the issues and implement changes that work better for everyone overall.. So that instead of creating a bunch of Bidbot Barons - along the lines of Columbian drug barons (but with less moustaches and sub-machine guns hopefully), we can create a community that sticks to the original vision of the Steem whitepaper whereby posts are rewarded for 'proof of brain'.
In summary, here are my thoughts on improving the bid bot situation peacefully:
Everyone has responsibility to think about what they are doing and to learn whether bid bot use is helping them in the long term or not. It is quite possible that a short term profit/visibility gain results in a long term loss of value in Steem since investment in the platform is reduced due to outsiders not liking the situation when they encounter the way that posts are boosted currently.
Steemit inc. could take relatively simple action to introduce their own vote selling system that creates much more balance - as I outlined in the post I linked at the start here.
As with drug addictions, by increasing awareness of the problem and helping each other to solve our problems through mutual and constructive support - we can overcome all the issues. I think this is really how Steem was intended to work from the beginning.
What do you think?
Let us know in the comments below!
Wishing you well,
Ura Soul
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I wish that you will, but to do so, you need to start a new decentralized social network from scratch, that will be similar to Steem, minus the premining, because the same person that declared Steem's vision knowingly prevented his vision from materializing when he made it a premined currency.
If you will start such a similar social network, it will also yield the bonus of riddance of spam and being cheaper to maintain on top of being more just, and most importantly, a different platform might employ a software that allows for browsing, reading of crowded threads, smooth transfers of funds, etc.
As a concept, STEEM is a breakthrough.
Wrong as much as it is true.
People may as well buy into Steem in order to join the bidbot baron class.
Jerry Banfield invested in Steem for this reason, and he is not the only one.
There is some additional addictivity to it, on top of Steem's reward addictivity on top of social media addictivity.
On the neurological and biochemical level, you are correct, but due to financial incentives, fighting spam and arms races between users, there are also benefits to using bidbots which are absent in drugs.
Also, bidbot use is not as dangerous and harmful.
Also, it does not cost as much.
Also, it is legal and does not warrant contact with crime organizations and does not empower them.
In my case, it comes on the expense of my addiction to a certain computer game, which neither rewards me, socializes me nor lets me do any good.
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You got a 60.00% upvote from @sleeplesswhale courtesy of @stimialiti!
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This comment has received a 76.92 % upvote from @steemdiffuser thanks to: @stimialiti.
Bids above 0.1 SBD may get additional upvotes from our trail members.
Get Upvotes, Join Our Trail, or Delegate Some SP
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You got upvoted from @adriatik bot! Thank you to you for using our service. We really hope this will hope to promote your quality content!
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To be honest I don't like the thought of using bots, but ironically, there is something now pushing me towards thinking about using them - it's not being in the @tribesteemup upvote circle! It's just too painful seeing so many people I follow now getting a nice regular payout for their 'positive posts' (sometimes for poems and recipes).
While I do like that stuff, the sense of relative deprivation is painful when I'm struggling with 'harder analytical work' but not getting rewarded on a level.
It's actually pushing me to adopt a more individualistic approach to the platform.
It's not an addiction, but there's definitely something of a deep-seated psychological mechanism at work here!
Edit/ addition
On reading through a few replies to this comment (thanks everyone) - I've been convinced of the irrationality of bot use for 'rewarding myself' (NB I did know it was 'fake' reward), but am now convinced that delegation (to minnowbooster/ qurator for e.g.) is the way for someone without a decent regular auto-vote to get regular rewards.
Maybe delegations the way forwards?
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I think you've identified a second problem with Steemit. Forgetting bots, humans watch and vote for those that are going to make the most money. I mean, there are users that have a history of bringing in large payouts. People setup autovoting to vote for these people's posts purely to have a cut from this payout. The payout might be "real" or might be "bot" but the result it the same. We've all observed this -- the random mediocre post from a big name that brings in $100+ with all 200+ of the votes coming in the first 20 minutes. Did they really get 200+ reads in 20 minutes? I don't think so.
My experience with bidbots is that it is a form of advertising. I've joined Steemit just two months ago and due to the downward market trend I've rarely see a bidbot purchase that is non-negative. At the best the ROI is a couple of percent. However, when I hit Trending or Hot my number of followers spike, and presumably at some point this will become a funding stream. A steem stream. :) My posts without bidbots, receive less than $0.10 per post and my number of followers stagnates.
An extension of this is the cliques, such as @tribesteemup, although there are many others, some explicitly stated, but others not. I'm not against this since it occurs naturally amongst peers, but for those that have been on Steemit for a long time, and who are highly opposed to bitbots, they need to understand that newcomers very much feel excluded. This exclusionary sense is reflected in the lack of documentation that many clubs have. I've been trying to understand how to work with Curie, SteemSTEM, and Qurator and have found that there is almost no good documentation. (Yesterday SteemSTEM publish a good document, but prior it was missing.) The absence of documentation says to the newcomer, "We all understand the rules, and since you were here 6 months ago when we established this game, you need to do the work to figure it out for yourself." Yes, I need to catch up with the cool kids, but how do I do this not knowing the rules to the game? What is the payout with Qurator -- there are three different documents giving different payouts. Which is the one to believe? Have I found the most recent one? I can't tell.
Anyhow, I guess that I'm just venting some of my frustrations. Anti-bidbot discussions get me riled up. I don't disagree that bidbots are mostly wasteful and scams, but it is difficult to listen to people routinely making $10+ per post, many votes coming from users that don't ever read the content, complain about tools that give exposure to those of us that are are new to the platform.
If this is a anarcho-libertarian-utopian platform, then people need to accept the fact that bidbots are part of the ecosystem. If it isn't, and we believe that there should be rules to govern the economy, then consider a progressive tax system that allows the little users to have a chance to grow. Either one is fine with me, but ultimately, this is the situation.
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Well said - you should turn this into a post!
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Thanks, I think I might do this... after I finish my next video for DTube, which U plan to post today... I'm making a basic Souffle.
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Until someone notice your article you can't get in @tribesteemup circle. That someone has to be from that circle of course. Only way is continuous posting, not to get into that club, you really must have intention to help people, whatever that way is.
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I thought that was the case - thanks for clarifying. Unfortunately for me I'm not just not 'relentlessly positive' positive enough to fit the criteria!
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Just continue writing, eventually someone from tribe will notice you and recommend for adding.
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In my experience, as others have pointed out - generally the payouts from bots are now mostly just reflective of the amount of money paid in to them by the poster, so the 'big payout' at the end isn't really profit. The only reason to use them from my pov is to gain visibility, which is itself something that should either be solved by improved post discovery technology in steemit.com or through a renewed interest in manual curation. Maybe part of the solution is for everyone to relocate away from steemit.com to busy.org or some other UI where they are actually making improvements.
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Yup - of course I was talking about visibility - so my payouts don't look silly compared to all the 'relentless positivity' - I've already started looking/ moving elsewhere.
Big fan of steempress, even with the 15% cut!
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What is steempress?
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It's a wordpress plugin which allows you to publish from your wordpress blog to steem.
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Any benefits from it?
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The main upsides are that you don't have to bother with mark-up, and there's a chance of an upvote from the 1m steempress account.
Main downsides = they take a 15% post payout cut and it might damage your SEO on your WP blog.
Personally I'm just trying it out, if there's anything I post on my main blog that overlaps with here, I use steempress.
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What is the chance for upvote?
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If you do the mathematics very well, you are loosing money using them.
Don't be tempted to use them, focus on interaction with other user. That would help you on the long run.
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Steemit is dying because of the bid bots. I played the bid bots. It is making the whales bigger. Steemit is not about quality content. I have lost my faith in Steemit. I am sad.
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You don't have to loose your faith on steemit, you rather stand to your feet and do all you could to save our beloved steemit from dying.
Talk to people about the damage done to them by bidbots just like we counsel the real drug addict.
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Also, I think it's about feeling of your post being on trending. For some it's way for part of their ego to feel 'high' because of it's post being on trending. That way part of their ego feel important and successful.
BTW You didn't write link properly in last part of your post.
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When I spoke about changing how we feel, I was referring to the idea of being accepted and 'succeeding' and thus 'being strong' (or even 'stroked') - so yes, that is all part of being 'at the top' and 'winning'. The reality with steemit is that if you are on the top - at one point in time - it means that you literally would be being paid a lot of money and therefore you could translate that into 'real world' success and rewards too. Now though, it seems that the main winners are the bot owners.
Thanks for the pointer - the link is fixed now. :)
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Yes, bot owners are winners all the time. Why paid post don't go to promote section and highest payout posts without bid bots to the tending? Something like that should be in place.
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The issue with anything like that is that there is no guaranteed way to know which accounts are operated by bots. It is possible to maintain a manual list of bots, but it will get messy. There will be arguments and vote sales would just go 'underground'. Did you read the post I linked to at the top here, with my idea for Steemit inc. selling votes, with the proceeds going back into the reward pool? I think that's as good as any idea I have seen so far.
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I have read it now. I would agree with your approach. Not fully understanding whole process, but the way Steemit is operating now is hierarchy system where money rules. Not for everyone, there is still people who have good intention in their heart, but mostly it's all about money. More for me and not caring for anyone else. Thanks for reply, most of whales don't reply to questions.
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In my case, I used bid bots for a long while until recently when they became money dumps without much reward. In the past, they used to give me as much as a 25% profit or more sometimes. Bid bots were the main key to my quick growth on the platform. But as soon as they stopped being profitable. Now there's only tiny profits, a lot of possibility for loss and a dump of liquidity (SBD-> SP).
I used to earn as much as 6 SBD worth of SP per post with bid bots (and I used to get my SBD back to reinvest). Now without bid bots, I'm at ~1 SBD worth of profits per post.
I do feel bad at being unable to use them, but I'm not sure on whether it's because of an addiction or because of tangible loss.
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Originally, back when randowhale was the only one and then booster - it was not impossible to profit greatly from their use.. But yes, now, the profits are minimal and we are only left with their 'benefit' in the promotional war of 'reaching the top' of the post lists. This exposes the reality that there are major flaws in the steemit ui that need to be solved.
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Indeed. I've seen a few solutions but it's hard as long as the blockchain design promotes this kind of UIs (the "trending", "new" and "hot" categories are hardcoded into it and organised by amount of rewards/time).
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You have spoken well. Honestly, sometimes ago I found myself in such a situation were I had to depend on bid bots. When I realized I was using them at every possible opportunity I decided to stop. As at now, I can't remember when last I used them.
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I'm glad to hear that bro, don't just stop using them, tell those around you to do the same..... Hug
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I'm glad you could stay clean for so long :)
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I love public confessionals...lol...But, trust me, u-s, only people of utmost character are even capable of them. Kudos.
I've never used one, and purposely have never even studied how, as I, personally, am for the elimination of ALL bots of any kind involved with any linkage to the Steemit rewards system (or witness voting system.)
Here's a suggestion for a replacement for you for those times when you have an urgent and critical post you need people to see. When a person hits a rep score of 50, they should get one "hot post" a week which gets re-posted automatically x-number of times by the steemit programming...say once each day for the following two days...? When a person hits 60--they get two hot posts per week, then 70=3.
Of course, those details are just examples. We could hammer out the finer points to everyone's satisfaction. This might be a step on the road to KILLING THE BOTS once and for all.
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This is pure wisdom, I hope the witness see into this.
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Thanks, man!
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You are very much welcome
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hehe, thanks. there is a need for a greatly improved method of post discovery and it can be done in quite intelligent ways I think - given enough planning and thought.
even just having a filter in the trending / hot / new pages that allow us to view only posts above/below a certain reputation will be a help.
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YES! That would be an awesome tool!
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Thank you friend.
Let me start by saying I was once a user of bidbots as well, I stopped using them on any of my posts over two weeks now, because I realized that steemit is already loosing its value with the activities of bidbots.
In fact, I made a post to publicly declared it that I won't use bidbots again and I urged other users to do the same.
If we want steemit to become what it was meant to be. Together, we must say no to bidbots
They are not actually helping, they are destroying the beauty of steemit.
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You are welcome. Just Say No! :)
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I am resounding my NO... Lol
Thanks
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I can say that I’ve never used bid bots, and it’s obivious from just looking at my rep. I now post rarely and resteem posts I enjoy. Bid bots are ruining steemit and keep lousy content in trending. SteemitINC is hardly decentralized, it’s just become like any other money making scheme. I stick around b/c @ walkthisway is my second account. My original one is at a rep of 60.5 and that one has never used bid bots either. Over a year ago it was easier to get noticed and excel.
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It is a sad observation to make, but yes it appears that the Steemit Inc. have a long way to go to correct the major issues and so far have delivered pretty much nothing at all in that direction during the last 2 years that I have been a user! It's quite amazing actually and I can only conclude that they don't intend to.
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I've used bid-bots a couple times. I can see how they become addictive. I will usually use a promo-bot which restricts content.
Warning to anyone on Steemit who has an addictive personality. Steemmonsters is months away from launching the game, but it's way too fun just purchasing the packs and trading cards (or bidding).
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He only use the word addictive to relate the effect of using bidbots to real drug addict.
Drugs are damaging to the body as bidbots are damaging to our beloved steemit.
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Suggestion to those who suffer from addictions: Get sunshine, clean food, detox, breathe deeply, focus on loving self and opening to personal evolution. :)
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Breaking an addiction takes a lot of will power. Some people do not know how to harness this wonderful agent of the brain.
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A very wise post. Vote bots and similarly skewed incentive structures are one of the things that make me question whether steemit is the right platform for me.
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I had tested them out, and while good for exposure, they tend to drain your wallet unless you spend at least 30 SBD for promotion. I have recently ended that test and see my earnings drop to almost nothing. However, I'm confident that if I keep posting quality articles, over time this current voting slump will change and my account will start growing again.
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you made a nice analogy b/w bid bots and drugs. I also use Bid bots some times. If you don't Bid bots you get only few cents reward of your worthy post. So at that time you feel an addicted person who love to have drug. After using Bid bots I hardly earned much.May be as i am not expert in using Bid bots so mostly i do business of loss. After not getting any thing big I decide not to use Bid Bot again.
you drew a clear picture about using or not using a bid bot. @ura-soul
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Lol I noticed this in the early days I used them because they make ur account grow I go sweaty palms and heart palpitation when I used them biting my nails and passing around. Wasn't that healthy lol so I stopped using them pretty quick
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