The Price of Steem Will Always Go Down... It's Supposed To : The Magic of Steem Power

in steem •  8 years ago  (edited)

The explanation here is very general and ignores the initial first year launch conditions and eventual reverse-splits. It assumes general voting participation on the platform and for simplicity uses nice round numbers.


It doesn't have to go down obviously.  If there is considerable growth -- I fully expect it -- the price will go up. I just want to point out the normal / natural downward pressure.  And if you're holding Steem for the long  haul, you may be holding the wrong thing.


I think the following is an important part of the puzzle in understanding what Steem and Steem Power are and what they are for.  In particular the price of Steem falling as a normal, expected, and healthy behavior.  


By design, the total number of Steem will double in supply each year to pay for all of its utilities.


Because the supply is increased by 100% every year,  if the market-cap, or total value of the network, were to remain the same, it would require the price per unit of Steem to go down by 50%.

Anyone holding just Steem for that period will obviously lose half its value.

Anyone holding Steem Power will not lose any value.


Said a couple different ways:

Given any amount of growth in market-cap less then a double for the year, will show a drop in price per unit of Steem.  


In order for the price of Steem to go up, it requires a growth in market-cap more then double each year.


Any price drop less then 50% for the year, would indicate growth in the total value of the network.


Steem can fall in price by one half, each year, and your SP total value will remain the same.


------

I've seen people refer to the benefits of Steem Power as it paying interest.  I think there is a better way to look at this and in turn explains the downward inclination of the price.


Steem is subject to inflation. 

It is a short-term trading vehicle. (It is not meant to be held for long periods. It is meant to be traded)


Steem Power(SP) is protected from inflation.  

It is a long-term investment vehicle.  (Meant to preserve value and provide benefits, cannot be traded)


If you have 1% of the supply of Steem held as SP now.  You will have 1% of the supply of Steem as SP any number of years from now. 


Saying SP pays interest suggests that you're gaining value, when in fact you're not.

Saying SP pays 90% interest or more; and you won't be taken seriously.  It's true in a way... it just doesn't make sense unless you understand all the other mechanics.


Let me know if you found this helpful... or confusing etc.  : )




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Greetings @xeldal.

Have you thought about writing an update to this article.....or has anything changed.

The latest HF has certainly given pause when running the senarios as to the future of the token itself.....Steemit seems to have a future...but could the token itself become irrelevant?

Thank you for your role as witness.

All the best. Cheers.

NB....the query is this.....what is the incentive to keep any amount here at Steem?

@xeldal wrote:

By design, the total number of Steem will double in supply each year to pay for all of its utilities.

Naturally, there is a limit to this doubling; when every human on the planet is on Steemit.com, to give an exaggerated example. There will have to be a change in this doubling mechanism at some point. It can't go on doubling forever. Would you agree?

It won't matter how many users there are, but yes, eventually the numbers get unmanageable. Steem does what's called a reverse-split every 3-4 years to keep the numbers in a usable range. Basically just moving the decimal place on all balances.

No. Only the virtual supply doubles, and the vast majority is held within VESTS. It's only if VESTS start falling significantly below 90% of the virtual supply (and there's mechanisms to encourage it to return quickly up to 90%) that inflation actually becomes unmanageable.

Good post, this deflation is needed to be able to pay the value creators for their work. I think now in an early stadium of this platform 100% gain in market cap / value should be easy to reach, a multiply of this is realistic I think.

So for early investors it might be still a really profitable long term investment. But when the platform gets more mature and will enter the last stadium of adoption. There is almost no expansion in value anymore and then this 100% will be almost impossible to reach.

Since the deflation is covered by interest when holding SP, it will then only be profitable to hold Steem in the form of SP and use it on the platform. This is exactly where it is created for right?

So when the big gain in adoption is over, you have to keep al your Steem in SP and the rest cash out or use to power up. Then the value of SP will grow / lower together with the value of the platform and give you the power to earn more / have more influence, and the long term value doen't matter if you cash out, so it is quiet a perfect system.

thanks for even more explanation.

Bookmarked

dude ur fucking tripping? its inflation not deflation.. personaally i think steemit is a bit ponzi.. money locked up so there is no big cash out before inflation.. then what happens when the cap is doubled people are going to sell off , dropping the price dramaticly

Thanks explanation.

Why do you rarely create new articles ,,,,? I really want to see your new article @xeldal

Im new to the platform and this information is very helpful to me.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

From the Whitepaper: "The purpose of liquid STEEM is to facilitate changes in ownership between long-term holders. It is this change in ownership that the network 'taxes' to fund growth."

Wealth transfers result from content creation, curation, mining, and liquidity rewards. It's fascinating that this creative mechanism replaces and is equivalent to Bitcoin or credit card transfer fees... but has a covert quality that is much more user friendly. Steemit appears to be "free", but, of course, nothing is free.

Any more info like this for people who don't know much about crypto, this was insightful. Anything more recent? That means steemit has to keep growing indefinitely? Sounds like it fits right into the existing economic paradigm...

Steem Power will dilute too just 90% less than Steem...

Correct. I ignore this for this explanation and assume the user participates minimally in voting/posting to gain the missing 10% in SP. Such that his SP is not diluted at all.

Ok I can agree with that, however that demands some work from the investor part which it's a little odd IMO.

He only needs a bot for the curation. That goes pretty well, if you have enough Steempower.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Interesting. You learn something new everyday. Thanks for sharing.

Very well I understand it a lot better now . Thanks for sharing your wisdom.

Hi @xedal, thanks for the post, can you tell me, is holding SP like holding stocks, stock price will go up or down but number of shares will stay the same.

It's a little different but SP is certainly what to hold if your looking at Steem as a stock. The total outstanding shares of Steem is always going up. So in order for SP to maintain its relative value, the amount of SP you have is also going up at roughly the same rate. It would be like a stock that issues 100% new shares each year and also pays a 90%+ dividend.

What fascinating dynamics under the hood. Thanks for elucidating so coherently. If advertising becomes an earner, as opposed to 'use and volume', untrustworthy actors will foul the plot, .....or not?
Any views on defending the space from the powers that shouldn't be?
Great post, thx.

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congrats @xeldal

People want to be a rich man. But Steem can help us?
I don't know yet.
Have a nice day!

Finally! Of course I understood the basics but this is the first time I have had a full understand of the puzzling differences between SD and SP. The teaching style in this post is simplistic, in order and easy to follow. Thanks.

Nice info and thanks for sharing

That is helpful info, thanks mate. I look at Steem as an top up to my pension when I retire. Mind you, it may be the only pension I get after the government & big banks take all my hard earned retirement fund for their bail-in schemes. I believe the long term rewards from Steem are great in worth from the time & effort invested. Plus you are apart of shaping this platform.

Thank you @xeldal you are Most Valuable Player for me with 16.75% reward shares ($ 9.30 payout) from you ☺ I have found this information on : http://steemvp.com

Thank you ☺

Interesting theory... thanks for taking the time to look into this!

Im just 5 years late lol, do you still think this is true today?

Hello @xeldal, we are just trying to set crowdfunding on Steemit to get resources to save Abongphen Highland Forest in Cameroon. Please could you help us in our effort? Thank you for your upvotes and resteems. https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@kedjom-keku/do-it-for-forest-crowdfunding-who-are-we-actually-forest-friendly-family-each-11usd-10x10-m-forest-saved

The problem is, Steem Dollars are not representing one dollar in third party exchanges either. Try to convert 1 SBD in Poloniex or Bittrex. You wont get 1 USD worth of Steem or other crypto.

This is a common misunderstanding. The guarantee that 1 SBD is 1 USD is something that only happens by executing the smart contract "conversion" option on the Steem network. Once the conversion is initiated, after 7 days you receive $1 worth of Steem that can be sold on any market for ~$1 worth of BTC or some other unit.

If you don't wish to wait the 7 days, you can of course trade your SBD immediately as you mentioned on an exchange but you will be subject to the market prices. Sometimes this is the better option, as I've seen SBD trading as high as $1.30 at one point.

Here is a more in-depth explanation of how all that works: https://steemit.com/steem/@modprobe/how-the-steem-dollar-peg-works

Once the conversion is initiated, after 7 days you receive $1 worth of Steem that can be sold on any market for ~$1 worth of BTC or some other unit.

There is a fallacy in this case as well. Because, what we get is median of SBD value in terms of Steem for 7 days, which can be lower, higher or equal to 1 USD equivalent of Steem in other market. The point I am trying to make here is, though Steem Dollar is being promoted as stable value holding pegged to USD, in reality it is not working as expected. So far the spread is small. But, as Steem trading increases, this spread will increase more & more destroying the stable value property of SBD.

  ·  7 years ago Reveal Comment

The problem is that if the price of steem keeps decreasing so do the rewards. Steemit will need to find ways to reward users other than traders and speculators .

Not exactly. The rewards are based on the market-cap and because there are constantly new Steem created each day, the market-cap can remain the same while the price is falling.

If the price goes down the market cap goes down too, the 2 are inextricably linked, the fact that there are new steem doesn't change that, it would if the number of steem was actually decreasing but that's not the case for any currency.
The pool where rewards are being sent from is a constant number of steem, this number stay the same regardless of price so if price goes down people will be rewarded less $ but the same umber of steem hence the demand for steem will have to increase to sustain the payouts.

Each and every year 10% of the market capitalization of Steem is distributed
to users submitting, voting on, and discussing content.

Here's an example:
supply_of_steem x price_per_steem = market_cap
1st year: 100,000 x 1.0 = 100,000
2nd year: 200,000 x 0.5 = 100,000
In both cases 10% of new steem are payed as rewards. the $$ market-cap is the same, the $$ rewards are the same, and yet the price is 50% lower, because the supply has doubled. The amount of steem paid out in rewards is always increasing.

the nominal rate will rise from 800 STEEM per minute to the (time-varying,
supply-dependent) value needed to maintain a constant annualized growth rate of 10% for
the Contribution Incentives, and a constant annualized growth rate of 100% for the
combined effect of the Contribution Incentives and the Power Incentives. The overall effect
is a doubling of the STEEM supply each year

Quotes: White Paper

Like we've seen in the last couple weeks, the market-cap goes down, and so too the $$ rewards.

What if the price drops much more rapidly than the creation of new steem?

Think of it as a "steem (steam) Train". The more fuel you shovel in, the more power you get out.
The quality of the fuel (coal) was a direct result in the power or pressure of the steam. Now put that in relation to
Steem post.
If you choose a produce a low quality post (coal). Who will buy into it it? Will it create enough steem (steam)
for you to get moving. The answer is no.
What you need to do is keep your post (coal) to a high quality and the more people that see the quality of your steam will keep coming back.
As for the price that's the same as any commodity. If you are clever there are a few bargains looking you in the face and ways of getting them.
Minnows eat too
They're not just for eating..

Why are you powering down @xeldal

FYI, up voted you and following now also.

Thanks for the up vote in my post about Business.com covering Steemit.com!

Hi xeldal, I appreciate the upvote. Thanks Mike

How much time do you think you spend curating per day?

Steem price can go up if market cap will go up with higher rate than Steem inflation rate. Supposedly goal of high inflation is ( as in real economies) to incentivize spendings. "Money is like fertilizer. You have to spread it around everywhere, if not it stinks. " - John Paul Getty.

Hello @xeldal!

Today is my 3rd day in steemit and I am trying to understand better the plataform. Found your post very interesting and really helpfull for me!

I personally belive that this mechanism will help STEEM to became a usefull asset instead just another token user for speculation in exchanges. This renew my confidence in this plataform and in the coin itself.

Thanks!

@xeldal I'll share/resteem all you r video if you cand follow me and resteem ,you're the best ,thank you and hope we'll help each other ! I wish you have the best posts !

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Keep up the good work!

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Amazing post. Really, what a great post. Totally FOLLOWing now and obvious Upvote!

Thank you for upvoting my photo. If you like that one you will love my other ones. https://steemit.com/@readallaboutit

go up and down price is nornally, some manipulators playing with it

I am really looking forward to the reverse split to see how many investors actually read the whitepaper. I almost expect huge FUD and price collapses when every 10 Steem become 1 Steem from one minute to the next, at least after the first two or three 3.5 year cycle.

Talk about a negative-feedback-loop. It may be more like a negative-feedback-crash. The financial engineering in steem is definitely highly experimental. I'm still not sure if you can design a system that manipulates human behavior in a positive way, especially over the long term.

I'd love to hear if anything changed since! You haven't posted a long time. All those hardforks and everything...

we are all already missing you !! looking forward for your next post

Very good article. Following. Always learning something new. Thanks!

Why can I not resteem this?

Because it's almost a year old! :D

Lol. Yes but still just as relevant! It's ok, I just copied the link. A lot of new people would have idea about this! :)

Really good post @xedal, thanks fo sharing!

thanks for this post. I like how people share everything here.

I need to know how someone who makes a comment on my Post gets a vote from you instantly... Check my post titled ATTENTION ALL WHALES...
@pocketechange

Thanks for this nice explanation

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man you should post again.

newbies need your help man...

hello @xeldal ,thank you for upvote my post ,im so happy , this means a lot to me :) Take care

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Thanks for the support ;)

Can we still rely to this post 11 months later? Should I still keep everything in SP? (That's what I planned to do anyway)

Thanks for putting this together. Nice breakdown.

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Followed u successfully

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This cleared things a bit for me. Thank you @xeldal

@xeldal thanks for your interest!
Have a nice day~🙌

Hi brother
You have flooded you
I voted for the post
Please vote on my posts
Fool me
thanks bro♥
@haji

You @xeldal have been invited to STEEM (SBD) Trading Bot Growth Hack Project , https://steemit.com/bitcoin/@jordanlindsey/i-think-i-ve-built-something-incredible

I gonna follow you, I didn't know that. Useful

Don't think I haven't noticed your up-votes... But you never leave a reply... I'm hoping you actually read what I write... Thanks for being there...

Perhaps but the rate at which it goes down will slow down as more and more people join and the SP gets diluted.

Not all content will be rewarded later, as the website will always have many similar topics already posted, so only the good writers will earn, thus the inflation rate will shrink.

The inflation rate is a constant. The price will go up only if the total value (market-cap) out paces this inflation, which shouldn't be difficult in the early years.

Well it still depends on the whales if they sell or not. The inflation only manifests itself if people are bidding down the price of STEEM.

If more people hold than sell, then inflation can be tamed. If Steem Dollar continues to give out interest, that will incentivize people to HODL. Also accumulating Steem Power can also be a long term investment.

So in my opinion, it depends on the mood of people, and how much confidence they have in STEEM, it's always about confidence.

If we grow in userbase, more money will be held than sold.

Hi @xeldal - I'm running my social media promotion bomb and steem backed dollar giveaway again. I wanted to give you a heads up in case you wanted to support it again, and thank you for your support for the last competition! :)

Here is this weeks competition link: https://steemit.com/steemit/@trevorlyman/social-media-bomb-mass-promotion-steem-giveaway

And actually I've made an important update - I've decided not to take any of the rewards from the post. I'll use the Steem Power to buy promotion for the post to help it grow. There are more details on the contest page.

Good information for new people like me who like to invest in steem .

Pls have a look at my last two blogs
If you like them follow and resteem

@xeldal nice but why you not post your since 11months ?? followed you dear

Wow

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I do not pretend to understand most of this stuff. I honestly just want to tell my story and try to help others. What draws me to this platform is the fact that I can earn a little bit of money while doing so, and I think that is awesome. I still try to understand what is going on and it's nice that there are people like you trying to explain it in a not too horribly technical way. Thank you for trying to help the new people!!

Keep in mind that this was written almost a year ago. Steem has change a great deal since then and no longer works as described in this article.

I honestly don't get most of this stuff. I am just a guy trying to share his story and help people.

I'll follow your account to see how you doing. Because i also want earnings as like you @yash0108

Good point, people still dont move with time.

Feel free to see my latest post about how I exposed @dan ´s secret plan to take over the world. More success to you.

Ok, but I wonder why is it still falling then. :(

@xeldal - can you do a writeup about the opportunity costs of powering down? I wrote this a few days ago and the vests per SP concept was something I didn't account for.

Thank you for this writeup!

@xeldal FYI: My article proposing a fix for the SP Delegation Loophole. Hope it helps. Followed. Voted! https://steemit.com/steemit/@cyberspace/proposed-steemit-fix-for-steem-power-delegation-self-voting-loophole

MIND. BLOWN.

Keep in mind that this was written almost a year ago. Steem has change a great deal since then and no longer works as described in this article.

Is it still in our interest to buy SP? I mean like I read it here, it seems this isn't a good investment after all..

I hope you will please write a follow up about the changes for those of us who struggle to understand this place. This post still makes the rounds and it is confusing to minnows like me! Thank you for any help at all.

Nice post...

Good post, and I have a question. What about holding steem dollars as opposed to SP?

Steem Dollars will simply maintain there value at roughly 1 USdollar each regardless of the price of Steem. If the Steem price is $1, you can expect to get 1 Steem from a Steem Dollar. If the price of Steem is $0.10 then you can expect to got 10 Steem from a Steem Dollar.

For Steemdollar you also get 10 % interest per year. Not bad in an age of negative interest in the fiat currency system.

@xeldal

FYI - Just posted this article.

Analysis of Steem's Economy - A Social Scientist's First Impressions - Part 3/4 in the series.

https://steemit.com/steemit/@cyberspace/analysis-of-steem-s-economy-a-social-scientist-s-first-impressions-part-3-4

All well and good about steem power. Except my SP keeps going up while the overall value of my wallet goes down (note: I'm only holding steem power in my wallet) so there must be inflation and devaluation occuring even with steem power?

The overall value of your wallet is going down because the overall value (market-cap) of Steem is going down. SP doesn't ensure you maintain a dollar value, it ensures you maintain an equivalent percentage stake in the total value of Steem. If the market-cap of Steem were stationary at say $100,000,000. Over time you would see the price of each Steem go down and the amount of SP go up. Balancing each other out for no change in overall value(market-cap). Right now the Steem price is simply falling faster then SP is going up. I hope that makes sense.

hi, I voted you as my witness, wish you help increase my rank , thank you .

Upvote, follow and resteem

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I didn't find a younger article in your blog, so I just drop my message here: THANK YOU for your powerful upvote on my last article. I highly appreciate the support for the Steemit Surf Project. Thanks a lot and have a great day 😉

Hi @xeldal, this is both helpful and confusing for me (being a newbie) XD
Anyway, I understand Steem Power and Steem a bit better now, thank you!
Just to let you know, I am following you and voted you as my WITNESS. I am quite new here and I would also appreciate if you could comment on what you think of my last post :)

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If there is demand for Steem like Advertising feature in Steemit that will have a buying pressure then at least will minimize or reverse the inflation.

wish i knew more about this a few weeks ago lost about 3.5btc before i pulled the pin I'm sure ill be able to get it back trading on kraken i have lost and gained that amount a few times in this game i should have listened to my own rules of (1)don't trade on emotional value (2) only buy low sell high (3)take small daily gains

Well, I don't think any of the information in this post would have saved you. a couple weeks is not a long enough time to really see the effects of the inflation on Steem. SP holders have lost nearly just as much over this time frame. Steem can easily continue to see rapid price appreciation especially this early in the game.

yeah just sucks watching money evaporate

@xeldal You stated that steem can reverse split ,I was wondering when they reverse split steem will they also reverse split SteemPower at the same time

Yes. It's a non-event really. No value is effected or transferred. Simply moving the decimal place to keep the numbers small and human friendly.

Good discussion point. Interesting to see I'm not the only one that is thinking about this. The current total market cap of all cryptos might seem high but blockchain is here to stay and will involve all our lives. I do see a bright future for everyone that's hold's their coins with a long term vision. I really advice people to take a look at: https://www.coincheckup.com The site is my go to place for crypto investment analaysis and indepth coin research. Check for example: https://www.coincheckup.com/coins/Steem#analysis To check Steem Research report

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Hi friend I didn't get you to comment, so I think I also made it here. Please friend come to my blog too, I am not not so much telanted but you may like my post so please I invite you to my blog. Wish you good luck good health and happiness, Happy steeming.

I just want to ask you for help as many honorable popes, I created a UPVOTED COMMUNITY program, but as you can see in my post when promoting upvoted community, not having seen my post, I want to ask you to look at it even for a while my post HERE !!!

my program wants to help the minnows in steemit but see i do not have enough steem power, i just a minnow too, i have to give them 100% reward every post but my post limit is so fast so i can not upvote many post minnow other. at least I just want you to catch a glimpse of my post so minnow just as I can grow. I am very grateful to the pope like you @xeldal

I like your post

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Congratulations @xeldal! You have completed some achievement on Steemit and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

Award for the number of upvotes

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Thank you for the advice. I started holding Steem Power 100 percent on my posts. I kind of thought this might be the case. Thank you for laying it out for everyone to understand. Followed.

Keep in mind the above article is over a year old now. The way steem works has changed a lot since then. There is no longer 100% yearly inflation so the benefits of SP are mainly for voting.

Good to know. I would guess that steem power is still a good value storage system for now. Along with the benefit of giving a tiny bit of love with my minnow votes. :)

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Dear @xeldal. I can see you voted for witness arhag and cyrano who doesn't have a working witness anymore since a long time.. I am new, dedicated and achieve dreams. Your vote can really really help me. I hope you would consider it.. https://steemit.com/witness-category/@rival/rival-week-2-steem-witness-update-thank-you-daretoask

Hey @xeldal! Just a reminder that I have launched a witness campaign for Steemit and have a pretty high capacity server, plus a lot of professional experience with software/hardware (and banks of all things!) - I can see you are voting currently for @au1nethyb1 whose server is listed as inactive and who hasn't posted to Steemit for over a year. I'd really appreciate if you would consider switching that spot for me to give me a chance to serve the community as best I can.
My witness application is here. Cheers!