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This is great! However; it can also be bad news for the steem ecosystem because of one thing :
When seaching for keywords on a search engine, it will look them up in their index. If they find the same content twice they have to make a choice of which one to display first ? One way to choose is by looking up the rankings.
For instance, if the same text appear both on wallstreetjournal.com and mysuperblog.com, it's unlikely that the article originated from mysuperblog.com. Since wallstreetjournal.com has a way higher ranking, it will show be shown first.
But with the steem blockchain the same content is displayed on a lot of various websites who are, in the end, front ends that display the steem blockchain. And this is where it gets tricky :
If I make a contribution on utopian, the text will be available on steemit.com and on utopian.io
So what will the search engine do ?
Show steemit.com even though I posted it on utopian and would like to keep the formatting of utopian.The same goes for other applications like steepshot and zappl.
As a result, it's very hard for dapps to do marketing because they are always in competition with steemit.com who make them less visible. This is the reason why you can't see articles when you go to utopian.io and you are not logged in.
This is even harder for small bloggers who want to post on their own blog and on steem to reach a broader audience and try to earn a secondary source of income (via SteemPress for instance). By using the steem blockchain they are basically hurting their own seo (search engine optimization). Although this sacrifice will be worth it for smaller bloggers, it may play out badly in the long run and is therefore a problem.
Which is a shame because it can be solved easily with what's called canonical links.
A proposed solution
Canonical links is a standard that allows to tell the search engines "ok I display this content but it originally came from this source"
In practice it's shown like so :
<link rel="canonical" href="http://original-article.com/article">
The issue is that this can only be set in the header part of the page. Which is basically a place where we have no control over.
So this is a proposition of a standard, it's heavily inspired by @jesta's work from last year.
Json metadata
I propose a new optional tag to the json metadata : "canonical"
The behaviour would be like so :
If the tag is not set, the front end (whatever it may be) won't add the line to its header. If however the canonical tag is set, then it'll add the provided url in the header.
The changes are fairly simple, and it would greatly help the whole ecosystem.
So for instance if steemit.com sees :
{
"author": "jesta",
"permlink": "test-post",
"category": "test",
"json_metadata": {
"canonical" : "http://mysuperblog.com/testpost"
}
}
Then in the header there will be
<link rel="canonical" href="http://mysuperblog.com/testpost">
I think there is a need to write the complete url in the canonical tag to allow anyone to add his own site regardless of how the url is shaped.
Canonical links for the popular dapps
This causes some overhead on the blockchain which will grow to be quite large if all the big dapps add a canonical link tag so I propose that if the "app" is recognized (aka it's part of a small list of whitelisted apps) then the front end automatically generate the canonical link :
{
"author": "jesta",
"permlink": "test-post",
"category": "test",
"json_metadata": {
"app": "busy/0.1"
}
}
From that the front end know that it orginated from busy, and thanks to the small list it can do busy -> https://busy.org and since almost all dapps uses this url scheme :
category/@username/permlink
it can easily recreate the cannonical link :
https://busy.org/test/@jesta/test-post
and add it in the header :
<link rel="canonical" href="https://busy.org/test/@jesta/test-post">
Which allows us to save a few bits on the blockchain.
Of course this means that there is a need for a list of the most popular dapps to be hardcoded on the front ends, but it's not like there are like 50 and other apps can still use the canonical tag for the same effect.
This is just an optimization of the space and is in no way a necessity and since it brings ongoing work like having to keep a list of all the popular apps and their urls, so the work may not be worth the saved bits.
Cascading links
What if stemit encounters a json_metadata that has the "app" and the "canonical" tag in json-metadata ?
{
"author": "jesta",
"permlink": "test-post",
"category": "test",
"json_metadata": {
"app": "busy/0.1",
"canonical": "http://mysuperblog.com/testpost"
}
}
We disregard the app tag and place the content of "canonical" on the link. So we cascade the links like so :
json_metadata.canonical
> json_metadata.app
> empty
So in the end, this i show it would work :
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I would be very interested in your thoughts on this, and if everyone agrees that this is the way to go, then I'll put the work into a pull request.
Update :
Created an issue in condenser with the proposal : https://github.com/steemit/condenser/issues/2505
In my view, this is one of the fundamental issues that really needs resolving for 3rd party app success.
A standard that everyone (including and most importantly, steemit.com) needs to follow.
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I think too, and with steem success growing we'll see more and more dapps hence why I think it' so important to remove this problem that slows down adoption.
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great catch @howo, was going to say this needs to be in Steemit GitHub submission & an Utopia post but with all the comments below, looks like this will be worked out the with all the dev here
just letting you know I'm following you now
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I like the utility of the
canonical
property.The
app
tag is not particularly scaleable, and adds several brittle complexity obligations to all clients.I'd suggest we start with both a
canonical
and anapp_account
(that is an account associated with only the app that assisted in creating the post).At some point in the future we can either:
app_account
to publish a configuration set for in a special tx; so that all clients can generate the correct urls by pulling the most recent tx for that app_account.If we get sufficient community support, and add in the concept of trusted app_accounts (with some additional complexity) any of the above would get the job done 'well enough'.
Oh, I agree this really does need to happen. For all our sakes.
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Nice to meet you @jesta
You are the best steemians
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I think so
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I agree with your approach 110%.
It will only help improve efficiency on the chain as well as avoid potential duplicate content issues. There are many On-Page SEO issues Steem has, many of the most critical I have outlined here...
https://steemit.com/steemit/@sf2/9-things-steemit-can-do-to-improve-on-page-seo-for-all-users
The more we can improve these technical SEO and accessibility issues, the more adoption and awareness we will create for Steem and the community.
Everybody wins.
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What is the fundamental issue?
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Great post, this was my initial concern from the very start. I love the fact that you've posted a problem and proposed solution. Keep it up!
This is very important point to consider even for WP integration. As when publishers are posting to their existing blogs that can also be pushed to the Steemit, before/if they move the the platform.
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SteemPress could be really big in the next few years, this is the kind of Steemian global thinkthank collaboration and support we need to see from everyone in this global community so adoption speeds up benefitting all stake holders (Steem holders)
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Actually there is lot of different url scheme now across apps:
https://steemit.com/{category}/@{username}/{permlink}
https://busy.org/@{username}/{permlink}
https://dmania.lol/post/{username}/{permlink}
etc...
It will be great if 3p apps know about others apps url scheme, it should not be a big deal to make a Gist within a JSON of every apps scheme so anyone can implement it.
I like this solution with both
canonial
andapp
, it give app more flexbility.Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
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Would it make sense for all apps to set
canonical
to their URL? This way n apps don't need to maintain n routes. Well, regardless, we still really need standardized libs for consistent rendering and maintaining any standards such as this.Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
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The issue with
canonical
IMO is that app canot change the link. If busy.org change his url scheme or busy.org become busy.com, we would still have old style canonical url from others apps. I would rather recommend 3p apps to use onlyapp
.For the standard that's something we can do at Steemit Inc. We can imagine a repo with all standards. Similar than what was proposed with SteemScript https://github.com/busyorg/steemscript. With that in place, 3p apps would have the possibility to PR change on the repo to update url scheme for example.
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Busy is the dopest, words count and easy use makes it an ideal place to use steemit for me...Am your new biggest FAN!
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The common solution when a website changes its url scheme, is to setup http redirects. So the work stays in the hands of the website owner to maintain their list of redirects.
This solution currently suffices, because search engines then update their index entries with the new url they got from the redirection, but I can see this solution not being prefect in the long term, since the canonical link entries in the blockchain can't get updated after a certain time. So either the website owner forever has to maintain an ever growing redirection table, or you just let the links break.
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I commented above with a possible set of solutions..
https://steemit.com/steemdev/@howo/steem-improvement-proposal-canonical-links#@valuproposition/re-jesta-re-howo-steem-improvement-proposal-canonical-links-20180217t054225178z
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Yeah it is important that the steemit platform and all apps built on it unite together to promote the steemit platform instead of being in conflict with each other. I hope all parties involved agree to your proposal and make the required changes.
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I never actually considered that this might be a problem, but now that you mention it, it's obviously an issue, and if it was to be fixed, I'm all for your proposed solution!
So although I agree with your solution, and I see the problem, I keep wondering if it will have negative side effects if it's solved.
One downside to actually solving this problem is that it might decrease Steemit's ranking, since it's basically competing with itself? I guess it's just a priority of what we want: A lot of decently ranked Steem-based sites or one really high ranking Steemit?
I also think it's important that people understand that all of these sites are connected in a collaborative ecosystem, and in that case I believe Steemit serves as a great portal to all those other apps. After all, posts written in other apps usually has a link to those apps, which I guess helps for their ranking?
In the end, I think Steemit will rank high enough anyways, so I'm all for implementing solution.
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Yeah your remark is a good one, steemit basically allow lots of content to be found and it has been a great portal to the steem ecosystem, but now I believe it's slowing it down and it's time for steemit to let go and allow all of the apps to strive.
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Like you mention, steemit.com ranking would get reset. But it's better to do this now than later when there are millions of people using it right? What do you think would be the immediate affect if the ranking dropped it, other than people writing about how steemit.com is shrinking in popularity?
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There's nothing wrong with steemit losing some (or a lot) of its ranking over time. Steemit Inc's main purpose in life isn't to dominate the steemverse with steemit.com; it's to make the steemverse HUGE, diverse, and awesome.
Ned (the CEO) has said (approximately) this more than a few times times "If there are so many good products out there that people don't go to steemit.com, that's a measure of our success".
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I was JUST talking to @themarkymark about this yesterday
Without a canonical fix we won't attract many of the big publishers, especially those with investors who will ask why Steemit outranks for their own content! :)
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Yup. To make the STEEM token as attractive as possible, there should be as few cons as possible to using it.
This certainly is one which also has a relatively simple solution to it.
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Agreed with both of your points. Ideally the platform becomes more attractive over time, not less.
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Was just going to bring this up with SteemDevs! This is a big issue if we are going to get more big content teams like Engadget.
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And especially if the end game for STEEM is for the token to be used everywhere rsther than bringing everything to steemit.com. Which is how I understand @ned sees things too.
This was also the most frequent question/concern we received in the comments with SteemPress, so naturally we've spent some time looking at possible solutions.
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SEO 101!
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Interesting read, hopefully as it develops little kinks can be straightened out for the benefit of everyone.
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yes it will, glad to see non-techies like you showing support
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This is an excellent proposition. But if you come to think of it, at some point, it becomes outrageously uneasy to manage.
You made mention of the popular dapps being hardcoded. what happens when more dapps begin to originate, and then they become more popular, and consequently they feel they deserve to be top on that list instead of, say Busy.org. and let's assume they actually earned that spot better than busy. It becomes a battlefield of grief and uneasy rivalry.
Also, given that SMTs would be launched soon on the Steem blockchain, the number of these Steem frontends would increase drastically because more people would want to dive into the arena of building for this blockchain.
Consequently, you start seeing a massive influx of these dapps and any attempt to handpick the popular ones, no matter how objective and accurate they might be, there would always be an issue of supposed favouritism and inequality.
I think that is one of the main problems that might arise later, and it needs to be addressed before plunging right into this solution because trust me, then, it will become harder to manage and remain transparent.
If it has to be included at all, then it should be available for all dapps to make use of the canonical link. On the other hand however, this has adverse effects for th steem blockchain itself. All the attention and spotlight is taken from the default front-end, which I know for sure would hamper it from growing as far up the ranks as it should have.
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I think the hard-code solution is fine for now when there are a handful, but it gets thrown out the window when the added size gets too large.
I think that what you talk about in the last sentence is actually healthy for steem and fine for all of us, if steemit is crap and no one wants to use it then let the market and the users decide which apps and sites become successful. I think it's actually an inevitability that steemit itself pretty much dies, considering how slow steemit's growth has been, how few users actually stay on the platform aside from the boom times, and the fact that historically blog and long-form platforms have all either ceased to exist or evolved into different models than the one steemit tries to emulate poorly.
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Because of technical language I didn't get what was the crux of your post. I will try to read it again, to know how the suggestion of your 's will improve steemit.
One thing what I understood is the mentioning of source by using conical link. Please if you can, use some layman terms also to get people like me to understand. I am really applogitic if my opion is offensive.
Regards
On Second reading I got it. Yes your suggestions are great. The source must be linked because the third parties mush get their share. If the content is has some other sources, that must be highlighted.
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This is the imperative that the public needs to know.
if I can translate this article into Indonesia.
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Great job explaining this! I didn't even know there is existed?
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Brother plz follow back and upvote my posts
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Steemit is going to have more and more opportunities to earn..It would be great for me...
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Great Post! this an initial problem, I love the fact that you have explained a problem and also gave a solution, keep it up
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Plzzz upvode me
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Was just going to bring this up with SteemDevs.Thank's for sharing your experience and spending time with nature is always
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nice, follow & my votes @wannis
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A great proposition. It is simple and manageable. And necessary to implement.
But ... hardcoding things is never a good solution in a long run. What we need is a resolver service. You would ask this service, call it a Steem DNS for links :) , with app and other parts of the link as parameters and get back the most recent valid concatenation. Then put this in the header of the html.
I know that this is an additional resource(s) that needs to be maintained and called but it would represent a (fairly) permanent solution. Calls could be cached, for example, to reduce the traffic ...
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That would indeed be a good idea ! Although I kinda dislike it because it forces all the dapps to talk to one centralized service. Which is a shame to do when we have a decentralized blockchain.
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We can make it decentralized.
A shared resource of apps, an API (in various languages) so that the rules are set and equal across the implementations.
Like this:
https://github.com/busyorg/steemscript/blob/master/apps.json
Lists of apps with names and rules. But you know this better than I do :)
After all, it is an agreement between the parties involved. Or you can put it in the blockchain core code ;)
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@howo, thanks so much for sharing this, the good side of it you identified a problem and also propose a solution. You are a genius
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This is wonderful
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Well presented proposal and certainly a necessary implementation as Steem ecosystem grows.
I've just tested something out starting from your proposal for canonical links. I wanted to see how Steemit (haven't checked on other apps) handles situations when a user creates a post in the same main category and with the same name as a previous post of his.
Normally the permalinks would be identical, but I see Steemit adds a random string at the beginning of the second permalink to assure different permalinks.
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Anything we can do for interlink content? Not many people link to good content of others which is a sad thing if we think it as a supportive community also from the point of view of SEO. Seems like Steemcleaners is only linking to Plagiarized content in their reports.
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https://steemit.com/article/@zubair159/cool-new-google-play-store-tips-and-tricks-2017
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Thinking about this issue is very valuable and toward to perfect system for blockchain, and specially for steem.
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This is great post and as a new member of steemit this helps me understand the app more.
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Thank you for sharing this great thought!!
Its definitely a requirement for products like Steempress to be successful. People want to get to more audience and that is to their blog on wordpress, but not on steemit. I don't have skills to comment on technical things but this 'information of the source' should be stored and preserved.
I got interested in Steempress because it adds the benefits of being on a blockchain(immutability, decentralization) with out actually creating everything from scratch. I wouldn't feel good if its hurts rather than to help.
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A scheme that emphasizes many opportunities in life, perhaps the lack of illustration on how investigations should be carried out, limit us to proceed with the same, excellent post friend @howo
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ONE OF THE FEW INFORMATIVE POSTS . Appreciated @howo
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I think that the very deliberate thinking that has gone into this proposal is oustanding. It’s time to lift the game in steemit and make it more than a rolling billboard! Thanks @howo
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Bumbumbum lets go back to my room!
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support me..I'm new on steeimt...thank u
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Bro plzz vote and follow me I am a new person in steemit
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nice post
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Too many Techie words but i grasp a bit of it my main man @howo
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Congratulations, your post have been resteem by @resteem-me! Follow @resteem-me
and get increasing your chance of being upvoted again!
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a scheme that emphasizes many opportunities in life, perhaps the lack of illustration on how investigations should be carried out, limit us to proceed with the same, excellent post friend @howo
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Great job explaining this! I didn't even know there is existed?
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Your blog composition is really cool. well articulated and sharp. Keep it up.
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Hi @howo!
I was just researching this topic when I came across your post... Thank you for sharing this!
Given that this was published a few months ago, I'm curious if you're aware of any developments or developer response for canonical links for steemit?
I'm about to launch my first blog to share information about podcasts, but wasn't sure where I should actually post the articles & how it will affect my SEO, viability, etc.
Any feedback is greatly appreciated!
Wishing you all the best!
~@codypmack🐼✌️♥️
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Amazing post my friend, you have given a very good solution.
Most of the time when I google something I found steemit posts on the top which was actually posted from some other app. Steemit is making it difficult for other apps to rank in serp as well as it is hurting other apps reputation/authority because of duplicate content.
I think you should have to start pull request to save other apps
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nice post,
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Yes, duplicate content is an issue and might be due to more and more third parties apps. totally agree with@jesta
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Nice
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Thanks for this good post I really enjoyed it 👏
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Wow. What a brilliant concept for an improvement to the blockchain; simple yet very necessary.
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Great recommendation!
Thanks for the flowchart...really helps!
Peace.
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am new here just joined few hours ago just browsing and looking for info on successful profile on how to go about this
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How can I do it. For the answer I thank you
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I feel a lot of your posts, the post is that
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i know, i am nothing between you all rich follower but i am trying to be your regular follower because i want to be like you in steemit and i believe ti is possible if get the support like you.
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I get your point. However, I think there are there are one big priority at the minute: A solid editor for posts. You can't expect the average Joe to learn html code for posting. That's the reason steemit is lagging into the mass. Then, we will worry about fake content. Good post. Followed!
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This would be really helpful for everyone in this community
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Thanks
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All we can say is big ups
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Loved your article @howo . All i kept saying to myself while reading it was "wow these are things we can actually rally for change here?" Especially the suggestion for canonical links. Honestly, this effects me and my web properties till this day. Several of my blogs share content with social media networks like twitter and vk. When doing a google search for my articles, often my sites are listed 3rd or even further down as the social network links seem to have authority even though it was posted first on my sites. Before sharing with those networks we were number one. Frighteningly within a few months of sharing and curating to other networks, that position was slaughtered. Now we're lucky if we are even on the first page. Hell, we don't even own our keyword anymore which was essentially just our website names which are pretty unique! I also noticed that some of those larger sites adamantly submit urls containing my content to google in their sitemap indexes and even in some cases have submitted DMCA removal requests to google and bing to have them delisted. This has actively hi-jacked SEO from my original links as those are no longer listed in google's/bing's search engines pending a lengthy appeal. It's up to google whether or not you will receive an alert in your webmaster tools console about these warnings and notices. The kicker is that many of the DMCA takedown notices submitted to google by these networks were submitted on MY BEHALF even though i had absolutely zero knowledge that they were doing so. After contacting one of the networks, they responded with "We reserve the right to actively protect the interests of each of our clients" (er? o.0) I think canonical links would no doubt be a strong incentive for established content producers like myself to submit articles. If I share something on steemit that's a duplicate from something posted on my website, does that invalidate the quality of the content? As long as I am a member of Steemit and I own the website and the content should I get penalized for that by Steemit and in the search engine? It would no doubt be a major break away from the link hoarding practices other networks employ as far as SEO tactics are concerned. It's already hard enough fighting with the search engine itself and it's paid clients to get a front page listing :) Sorry to be so long winded but feel my passion heh, I'll upvote this
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im looking toward to your proposal its helpful you point
Goodluck to your proposal jesta
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Thanks a lot for discuss about crypto ...
I appreciate your post..actually you are great one in this steemit..
I am always follow your post..
Cause I like your post always..
And your every post is mind blowing ..
Thanks for sharing your valuable post..
My support will for your every .
I wish you overcome in this steemit by your post.
Carry on your activity ..
Best of luck..
Upvote and resteemit done..
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