Curation Bot’s - Race to the bottom - The Impending BOT Armageddon!!!

in steemit-bots •  8 years ago  (edited)

There is an impending Curation Crisis coming. If you want to understand why this is happening, and how this is going to change the Curation landscape, read on..

The Curation Bot as we know them are about to Die!!

Curation Bots are at war. It's an interesting phenomenon to watch. For some time (well, Steemit's not been around too long, let's say 10 weeks) some Curation Bot's have been making spectacular returns, but that is about to come to an end.

The Original Curation Rewards Algorithm:

It was simple, the Earlier you vote, the higher the share of the Curation Rewards you received (it was still relative to your Voting Power just like today). This lead to some very successful Bot's instantly up-voting (a split second after posting) any content with certain tags, or by certain authors. Curation was simply a race to vote first.

The Curation Rewards Algorithm Today:

The Algorithm is just like before, however with the addition of a 30 minute window where, the earlier you vote, the higher the proportion of your curation reward goes to the Author. So, if you vote 1 second after a post (is posted) you will synthetically be giving ~99% of you curation reward to the author. This changes on a 'sliding scale' until, If you vote 1 second before the end of the 30 minute window, you will give the author ~1% of your Curation Rewards.

This Complicated Things.. Which was the point..

So, what time do the Bot's coders set their vote to come in.. 5mins? 10mins? 15mins? 20mins? 25mins? 30mins? There is a trade off whatever time they opt for. Too late, gives other users the time to up-vote before the Bot, and take more of the curation rewards. Too early, and the bot will be giving away too much of their curation reward to the Author. This was the aim of the developers, to even the playing field and give human users a chance against the bot’s.

Well, this is where Game Theory comes into play.

Let's talk about Steemit's favourite Bot.

@wang is the original bot. But, he is hitting some problems, and unless he evolves, these problems won’t go away. @wang is very successful, and kudos to the owner of that account. They seen a big opportunity, and first mover advantage ensured they were compensated for their work.

When the Curation Algorithm changes came through, @wang set his vote to 15mins. Giving up 50% of the Cuartion Rewards, but still getting in nice and early.

Unfortunately for @wang, his success will be his downfall. This is the killer for every successful bot on Steemit. The Steemit Blockchain provides complete transparency to a users actions. So, some other clever users are sat there watching @wang making up to 900 Steem per day, and thought, "I want a bit of that..."

So, they set up a bot to 'front run' @wang (vote just before @wang). They looked at who or what @wang was voting on, and set their bot to vote at 14mins. Over time, the number of users engaging in this activity increased, and @wang Curation Reward begins to fall. So he Drops to 13mins. And so, the cycle begins once more,

@wang has gone from 15mins to 9mins over the last few weeks...This means that @wang is currently giving away over 70% of his curation rewards to Authors;

9mins/30mins = 0.166666
1-0.3 = 70%

Where does this end?

I've been a futures trader from 8 years, and I've had to change my trading strategy too many times to count. I’ve gone through 12month period of following a strategy which makes consistent money, but then, more users start to follow your lead, and eventually the ‘Edge’ is gone. The money disappears, and you have to change your trading strategy to continue to make money. There is a term;

Adapt or Die

This fit's the upcoming Curation shift nicely.

If there is one thing I know about, it’s the life cycle of a market inefficiency. Here is how it goes.

I see the Steemit Curation very similar to trading a Financial Market. There is money to be made by identifying inefficiencies (a post that should have more up-votes), however, it’s currently too easy. There is only a finite pool of funds that can go to this type of Curation Behaviour, and as number of users following the same strategy increases, the rewards for each user will tend to zero over time…

A Fast Buck Never Lasts

Adapt or Die - The Rise of the 'Black Box' Bot's and the HUMAN Being

I believe that, the current bots will continue their race to the bottom until all the curation rewards (available to their strategy) will be neutralised. The bot’s don’t get bored, they don’t need money to survive, they will keep going until their earnings hit zero. Now, here is how we all benefit from this phenomena…

Black Box Bot’s

Bot’s are going to be forced to become Smarter and Darker Beings. By Darker, I Don’t mean Evil, I mean harder to predict, operating inside a black box. In order for a bot to survive, they are going to be forced to come up with a strategy which actually finds the best content before everyone else, but in a way that they cannot be ‘Front Run’.

This means that, they won’t be up-voting certain authors work blind, they won’t be upvoting key words or tags, this is too easy to replicate. They are going to have to create some kind of artificial intelligence in order to have any kind of longevity. This in turn will help un-discovered quality author become noticed, and even-out the playing field.

Currently Successful Authors will get a Larger Share of the Rewards...
Authors are already earning a large percentage of Curation Rewards because of the Bot’s voting activity. The race to the bottom will only extenuate this. Many authors are already being awarded with 70%+ of the curations rewards, and this is only set to increase.

The Human Touch

Human’s can change quicker than Bot’s. It’s time to stop following bot’s and upvoting content blind, and time to get your hand dirty and discover new talent. The Bot’s evolution will take some time, but I believe there will be a rise in successful quality human curators and the rewards they receive.

End of the Self Fulfilling Prophesy

Some Bot’s currently have a lot of power. When they vote, it carries a lot of weight. But, unless they begin to use it in a different manner, they will lose it. This power is valuable, where one vote from them comes, 50 more follow. However, if they are picking average content, and the 50 user on their 'back' stop making curation rewards, they will lose this power. It is in their interest to adapt, and use this power for good. I expect to begin to see a more human element to these Bot’s moving forward…

Curation rewards become Economically Sensible
Curators add value, but the level of value varies when comparing a Bot to a human being. A human being reading through a post and making a judgement as to whether the author deserves a reward is certainly more valuable than a bot voting.

Bot’s do add value. They attach themselves to previously successful authors, or topics. These criteria have essentially been decided by the communities past actions (likes/dislikes), so they are almost operating themselves as a indexing function for Steemit. This however, with the recent UI update, is no longer needed, and many users will be content to see rewards for such services falling, and this in turn opening the doors to Human Curators.

Summary

Expect the Curation Rewards for Bot’s to continue to fall over the coming weeks/months. The problem is, there will be NO need to turn them off until rewards hit zero, due to the very low marginal cost of them operating. This is why the race to the bottom is happening, and this is why it won’t end.

This can only be a good thing for Steemit. This will force the Curation Bot’s to improve, and become less predictable, which will in turn help discover new and exciting talent on the platform.

It will also open the door to super star human curators. Eventually these users will carry the same kind of weight (Power) that a vote from some of the most infamous curation bots do today…

Sources
Images: http://www.freepik.com

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  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I can think of lots of strategies for our friend @wang to survive :-)

The bots that are front-running @wang depend on wang voting after them in order to increase the total pot that the article gets.

So all @wang needs to do is switch off his bot for a week, and curate by hand. The posts he was upvoting suddenly get less reward. Meanwhile wang is building a new portfolio of authors that he can single-handedly catapult into the big time.

Those bots that monitor everything wang votes for will get confused too - which of the hand curated authors will wang finally fix on when he switches his bot back on? Those who aren't monitoring who wang is voting for (by assuming his old list was fixed) will get stuffed.

But no matter the outcome, a new bunch of authors get discovered and wang gets his curation profits back! The beauty of this platform from wang's point of view is there are so many good authors to choose from.

Am I a retarded idiot?
I'm upvoting content which I think is interesting and deserves an upvote. I don't care about "curation rewards" in the 1st place. I care about fun detecting new interesting stuff I never would have been reading without Steemit. For me Steemit is not work but fun. Sorry, Steemit workers ;)

Amen to that! I myself have been voting on things which I find interesting, strongly agree with, or teach me something. I find the concept of voting bots to be disconcerting and cold. If the platform doesn't reward natural human voting styles then something needs to be changed... or maybe I just need to learn how to write bots.

Some people want to vote fast. I want to learn to read faster. Before upvoting my friends, read first.
As for the bots - bot are bots and they will improve by time.
We only will benefit actually

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Will the bots really wait until zero though? I know the cost of running them are minimal, but isn't there an opportunity cost of not adapting early (wasted or at least not optimal use of voting power)?
For my own selfish reasons, I wish there was a way to easily benchmark your curation rewards against users with similar SP. It's difficult to tell if you're "doing well" so to speak.

To your later point. That is possible. Go to https://steemd.com/richlist find yourself on the list. Then go and look at users around yourself on Steemit. Alternatively, work out your % weekly return(weekly curation rewards value/account value), and compare it to other users.

To your first point. Yes, your point makes complete sense. I just think that, this is going to happen so quickly, and the evolution is so complex, that the adaption might take more time than it takes for the market to get saturated..

That's a useful link...... thanks

That's a good idea. thanks olllie... oh, i never realised it has 3 'L's.

I hadn't considered the speed vs complexity of adapting. You're probably right, as you showed in your post we've already had several changes in a relatively short time-frame. But they were comparatively easier to code (i.e. wait time before voting etc). I know steemups.com is trying to do part of what you're suggesting in terms of predictive analytics. But I don't know how accurate it is with the features it already considers.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

The more I look at this and experience it I must agree with thoughts that @dantheman came up the other day in one of his comments. It seems that curation is flawed in its roots. The idea is wonderful but the problem lies when you are rewarded to upvote something by not giving anything but time. Bots don't hive time in means that people have, so people or bots just upvote for profit not for right reasons (or maybe for both). If they were to give their money they wouldn't act in the way they do now.
To conclude any kind of curation reward will always lead to competition or outsmarting others for profit and not for primarily rewarding quality content.
At the same time curators are essential for this platform to survive because they are one content is made in first place.

I agree with a lot of what @dantheman has been posting too. Following and upvoting posts that bots upvote may help you make a little money, but it doesn't curate good content. There's an interesting thread about this elsewhere from last night by @stellabelle. I think you can still find it in Trending. We have a flood of new content coming in and it seems many minnows have given up on curation because there's no financial reward for them. The remaining people curating for profit can't keep up with the content. So a lot of good content is never discovered and promoted. I hope that the bots neutralize themselves, because honestly I don't think they add to identifying quality content. They also won't help in the growth of the steemit community. Great post Olllie.

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

I've read discussion @stellabelle too. I feel that 2 things are problematic. 1. human nature and greed, we can't fix that, but we can remove curation rewards. Lots of suggestions on @stellabelle post was constructive ways for minnows to take part in the community and earn money, to some extent like DASH finances its development.

  1. limits of platform, sure improvements in indexing can fix things for better, but scalability is one of the biggest problems of chain based technologies in general. For STEEMIT is how to curate through lots of new content and how to make users feel appreciated and value their work.
    Some revolutionary steps will have to be take place in order to satisfy all the appetites.

@leksimus I agree. With all of the users and content being added to steemit, curation is necessary to separate the wheat from the chaff. But some significant changes will have to be made to the curation function to motivate and reward curators to perform that function. I'm not sure what the solution is, but it's good to see various discussions.

I wonder if the bots' earnings will ever go to 0. I vote whenever I find a good post, without complete regard to timing, and although it often earns me very little, it earns me something. Wouldn't the bots always earn something? Especially since they are running 24/7 and there will almost always be people voting after them.

I think the bot factor here at steemit makes things a lot more interesting and more times than not, makes it a better community for us humans, in my opinion. Thanks for this thought provoking article!

Thanks for your post @kenny-crane. With regards to the 'zero' claim I made. If the race to the bottom continues, and they keep their bot's completely unchanged, this can happen. However the likelihood is that, they will begin to make changes to their voting behaviour very soon.

I do think they will make changes. Perhaps an easy change is to have each bot pick a real random number between 0 and 60 for each vote, and vote after than number of minutes elapses after the post goes live. No AI investment needed, and on average, they may share the curation award rather equally among themselves, other curators and with the authors.

There might be a math equation or monte carlo simulation to determine the exact range for the random wait time and whether the distribution is uniform or follows some other function. But as a start, it may be that a simple random time delay would be near optimal for all concerned. We'll see what happens!

Great article!
I also follow the bot votes, and they are voting quicker and quicker. Last week wang voted around 13 minutes, today it is around 8 minutes. I think if they contunie this race, all of the curation rewards will go to the author.

Excellent post @hisnameisolllie. I made some similar points here, though it is certainly great to see you develop the ideas more than I did.

That was a very interesting post. He touched on a lot of problem the community at large feel exist.. I know quiet a few users who will be interested to read that. I will forward it..

To be clear that wasn't my post, it was by @anyx. I linked to a specific comment of mine under that post about dumb bots upvoting authors not being sustainable. I agree @anyx did a good job there.

Apologise. I did see it was @anyx. Typo'ed the reply. And I read your comments. This extract, in particular I found interesting;

If you have a piece of land that nobody owns, the incentives can be for everyone to exploit it in every manner and to a degree that the land is ruined. If someone owns it, the owner won't want the land ruined and will most likely define rules and limits governing its use.

That has got me thinking about the Steemit landscape. It's an interesting way to look at things. Things did feel different on Steemit 8-10 weeks ago. It felt like, user were invested in the Steemit project. There is definitely a feeling that exploitation has momentarily taken over, and ideals have been thrown out of the window...

All is not lost by a long shot, however I would be in favour of some small changes to stem this progression...and get the feeling of ownership back!

and get the feeling of ownership back!

You can't because the whales own it. So there is a class war. And if we spread out the ownership uniformly then no one has any control and more over no one has any profit because we are just debasing ourselves to pay ourselves uniformly.

The paradigm is fundamentally broken.

Good analysis. Clearly you're deep in the bot game!

The big questions around bots that I have are:
1.) Will the whales recognize that bots generally are degrading quality on the platform and turn them off?
2.) Will the bots get so good at recognizing good posts that they become good for the platform?

Given your post, I'm guessing that your answer to 1 is no and 2 is yes?

Yes, that's my opinion @ntomaino

Fantastic post. I see it inspiring "super star human curators" to create super star bot curators, then repeat. I imagine it being a cyclical process.

Great post! I was surprised you didn't talk more about the follower bots which simply vote on the same thing a good dolphin or minnow curator votes on. I see that as being the profitable bot of the future, and I've already seen quite a few examples out there. it's unpredictable because of the human element, though it would probably have to cycle through a large number of selected curators randomly to ensure its list doesn't get discovered and its activities replicated by faster bots.

Quiet right. I was cutting content out of this post by the end. Your point is great, and an example of a good human curator being 'synthetically' given much more voting power than they may possess by themselves. Wanted to also talk about Whales changing their voting power and how that was giving the community more voting power too. But it was all getting a bit out of hand ;)

Hi @hisnameisolllie,

Good article. Great to see curation moving up the agenda. It's a pity for me that it's happening at a time when I don't have much time to post at length on the matter.

I'd be interested in knowing which 'bot' you think is front running @wang? Having been knee deep in the curation game for a number of weeks, I have to say I haven't noticed any (significant) bot doing this.

I'm speaking as one of the more successful (in terms of curation rewards to SP) curators on the platform over recent weeks. @trogdor has me third in what I would term a 'slow week'. Also bear in mind I don't just vote for profit, I also vote on unheralded posts/ authors that I see as adding value.

What I have noticed is that since I (and maybe others) have been factoring in @wang's voting behaviour into my optimal voting strategy, @wang has responded by putting on the squeeze (as I've phrased it). I.e. voting earlier. It just so happens he has jumped to just before (what was) my most frequent voting window.

Anyway, I can say that the game has now evolved further, even in the last few days. Tracking good authors is only one piece of the puzzle in maximising rewards. Also there will be other bots working on better strategies to optimise gains, I've already seen some starting to evolve.

'Maximising Curation Rewards' is an interesting dimension to the Steemit eco-system, however you really need to be in it (devising strategies to maximise rewards day-in-and-day-out) to understand some of what's is going on and the players involved. Despite my success, I'd see myself as only getting a faction of the picture. What I can say is, it isn't just @wang. Bots are and will always be a big (and in some ways useful) part of the equation. Reports of their demise have been greatly exaggerated.

Thanks for the reply @nanzo-scoop I have been aware of you curation performance for some time, so I appreciate your opinion on the matter.

With regards to the Bot's front-running @wang, this was deduction I made based on voting behaviour on certain authors posts. Where @wang votes, there is a list of the same accounts, in the same order voting before him consistently, I cannot commit to these accounts being bot's or not, however the impact is the same either way. Maybe someone should do a 'bot bait' post to see this in action..? ;)

With regards to their demise. I was merely making a point that, unless they evolve, they will die. Your points on bot's working on better strategies and generally evolving will of coarse stem this demise (completely in the short term). Bot's being forced to evolve is only a good thing for all users of Steemit. I do think that, if Steemit is successful, there will be a significant arms race in this sector that should nullify almost all current bot developers.

Imagine Google Deepmind turned their Artificial Intelligence to Steemit Curation...

Recently I began following and curating only authors who earn hundreds or thousands of dollars for all their posts, and this has dramatically improved my curation rewards, so following the bots earned me more rewards.

That may be true for the time being, however I believe there will be so many bot's following bot's, and humans following bots, your rewards from this activity will fall moving forward... We can only wait and see if I am correct...

I have also been commenting on the "bot" posts that earn allot of money, and earn handsome rewards for many of the comments, so that is another way to benefit from following the bots

But the problem is if we successfully spread the rewards out, then authors won't hardly be earning anything. Then why would 20,000 bloggers switch from Medium, and even Facebook and other more powerful competitors are adding blogging features. The voting paradigm is inherently dysfunctional and I am intending to do something about this soon.

that's exactly the problem, man...:(

Ya.... it'll be nothing but bot's everywhere ......I think it's time for me to learn some code. Nothing but bots showing up everywhere, Japan's an example. I was looking into this whole thing, wasn't sure if @wang was Steemit's bot or what with an account of $612,674.11...... all coming together now.

I imagine so but how does that help the platform?

Interesting thoughts... my only hope is that this happens sooner rather than later as it seems nearly impossible for most minnow's posts to get noticed... no matter how good they are.

In the end, it's going to be all about the Machine Learning (or AI, if you prefer) bots that can identify good content before it goes viral. The @wang problem results from the fact that @wang operates from a curation list, which is the least-intelligent and easiest-to-game of all voting algorithms.

Added to all this is the fact that curation rewards end after an article's first 24 hours, which means that there is literally no explicit incentive to find good content that simply got "missed" in its first day. Curation lists are fine, but how do you ever get on one if you're new?

This is why I'm launching the Lost Content Digest, where I'm explicitly creating my own incentive to find "missed" articles. Each issue of the Digest will feature several articles that are good, but didn't get paid on Day 1. Then I'll distribute the SBD proceeds of each issue to the feature authors. This way, curators who vote for me will get paid, even though they're partially effectively voting for missed articles.

Check out Issue #2: https://steemit.com/lostcontent-digest/@biophil/lost-content-digest-2-all-proceeds-go-to-featured-authors

Where is the Terminator when you need him?

If it's good for steemit, it's good for all of use. I can totally see this going in this direction.
If we had an "avengers" on steemit, @hisnameisollie would be like hawkeye or smth, always pinpointing what needs to be done! well done, mate. well done...

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

@hisnameisolllie

Steemit, 2056

Bots create their own content by using existing human posts. The funds are then used for funding The Fall of Man mission

It's time for another modification to curation rewards. Implement Google reCaptcha for all comments and those that pass as human get the highest curation rewards. Bots get NONE!

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

They (can) vote on the steem blockchain directly, not through steemit.com

I thought the project was that humans were voting for good content. But now, they are bots who vote for people and too often the same people. It becomes a Ponzi sheme?

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

Pretty ironic that my bot upvoted this post...

:) You got a rise smile out of me

So how does it work if you voted at 40 mins? what % do you give the author then? or is it 0% of curation to the author after 30 minutes period?

Sorry i made it bold but i really want the awnser to this question. Been asking many people.

0% after 30mins

I began to hate bots! Why? Because thanks to them, the people who are in their lists, can write all kinds of nonsense and get huge rewards. And those who do not have on their lists, do not receive any remuneration or readers. It's not fair! Bots should either follow each, or do not follow anyone.
Because of this injustice, many users become frustrated and stop writing post anything at all.

As ollie said in some other comment bots have valuable uses, but they are being used almost exclusively for profit only which is a bad thing. An example of a bot that is beneficial for the platform is one that goes through now stuff with SP equivalent to new user and upvotes if a post has original pictures and not stolen content to help human curators (as cheetah bots do, but upgraded for helping human curators only). Currents bots, in fact, follow each other I saw one guy that has 20 bots and they follow first one, and each of those bots has at least 400 STEEM which is way more than an average user. Even worse thing is that we follow them with a hope of getting money. Many times I said this would be a beautiful platform if there wasn't money incentive and removing curation rewards may help it​.

Human’s can change quicker than Bot’s - but - Bot’s do add value. Sorrowfully it all....
Thx for post!

The bots with lots of power can get away with earlier voting and still get a reward. Minnows (humans and bots) will have their reward rounded down to 0 if they vote too early.

This i a great idea. Adopt or die. Good for manual curators

Now that there are a whole lot of people joining, do we need the bots at all for curation? Or will they be kept around because they make money.... is there anything stopping everyone from creating a bot? Would the experience be better with or without bots?

That's a lot of questions.. :)

  1. Bot's can provide an important service, and have been (indexing). With the site developing (Following lists...etc), they need to evolve to continue to be 'useful'
  2. Nothing stopping anyone at the moment. as they get more complex, it will become more difficult for the average user to replicate the intricacies of the 'black box bot's..'
  3. The experience will be better with bots in my opinion. It'll just take time for them to become as useful as they can be...

I guess bots can give some value by highlighting quality content, if their algorithms can detect it. We need ways to discover the good stuff. If this is just done to make money then it's bad for us all.

BTW be careful with your apostrophes.

@steevc Gramma is not my strong point (as you have noticed), I will take a closer look. Thanks.

bots are very bad for average posters. they give all the money to well known posters, so there is few left for new users. They should be forbidden, or at least made them useless. I hope this is the way we are leading forward.

@dan-bn They might be bad for many posters now, but I believe they will become incredibly meritocratic in time, for the reasons I have discussed above...

Thank you @hisnameisollie for a great post! Do you think a beginner could easily build a simple bot within a reasonable amount of time? Say one week full time work?

I would say yes, comfortably. But I'm not a programmer, so take that with a pinch of salt.

Thank you for explaining the interaction between curation and bots. As a newbie that helps me understand steemit more.
I completely agree with the philosophy of preferring human interaction (upvoting) over bot upvoting. As steemit grows the human interaction is what will further propel steemit's growth.
Great article!

Steem on,
Mike

This is such a brilliant post and Steemit is rapidly changing for the future.

Thank you for this insight.

Wow, we're learning so much, and many predictions are coming true. Perhaps some of my original ideas are still valid, which rewards you eventually for voting for good authors, even if you lose out on immediate curation.

Yes on steemit there are a lot of traders, they have to be in the center of all new

Informative! Thanks!

really nice ur post @hisnameisolllie , that's very interesting..

Really if a bot account is detected it should be deleted. Its an abuse of the platform. If one wants to mine, then go mine some crypto, don't misuse the Steemit platform acting as if its a mine lol It undermines everyone else hard work in creating posts, participating in others posts and generally what the platform was created for.