Questions for Steemit.inc, the answers to which, might be of interest to all Steemians...

sornprar (7) · 7 years ago (edited)

Speaking as a Red Fish:

Any incentive for me to invest is gone due to abuse of power witnessed since joining.
More time is spent researching, investigating, and trying to figure things out than is creating actual content beyond said research and investigation (and for me, I do not draw the attention and collaboration as ones done by accounts such as yourself [well deserved, in most cases]). I really miss those first couple days, when I didn't have a clue (not that I'm any more "clued in" now).
Though a transparent blockchain, it is quite complicated and seems to grow more complex by the day (with little in the way of official answers aside from having to try and dig it up in others' steemit posts). Although all the info is supposedly there, it is not that easy to find or even know where to begin looking.
Nothing, to my knowledge, is being done to address the issue of the few let in early who now dominate the platform (releasing to a few while it was all still on the "down-low"). Despite it's intention(s), it does have the affect of helping newcomers feel as if they own no shoes and are in a race they are forced to wear weights in (while others own brand new running shoes and are given protein bars).
We can not call steemit "a game" without it being expressly stated when signing up. A promise of "authors get paid for their content" is misleading if any defence of it being a game can be justified. It's either a source of a revenue stream ("get paid") or a game ("gamble, for entertainment purposes only").
And let us not forget the sloppiness of the sign up process itself. No guards or protections for minors, now even more extensive wait time for official start ups (or trusting a service with your new password/keys if having an existing member purchase a new account)....
7).... And on and on (and I could go on, yet stretching into more personal perception and beliefs that would add little to the conversation's main topic).
The bread crumb answers given so far, though appreciated, do little to strengthen this Red Fish's trust in the platform.

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benjojo (70) · 7 years ago

You raise very valid concerns and I agree with many of them.

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drakos (70) · 7 years ago

☑️ on all those points.

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emble (50) · 7 years ago (edited)

From the roadmap file(page 5):

We plan to decentralize the @steemit account stake.

Thanks to @surfyogi for getting the link here:
Update: Now I found a full paragraph on page 21

Decentralizing Stake
The Steemit, Inc.-controlled primary account, @steemit, which holds approximately 41% of
the platform’s Steem Power, will be gradually divested of its holdings in an effort to increase
promotion and development of the platform, and this distribution shall further the platform’s
security through decentralization of voting power.
Several methods will be employed, including and not limited to: funding the continued
research and development of steemit.com, the Steem Blockchain’s first and best application,
promoting and publicizing the Steem Blockchain and features, hosting highly available
services for platform users, sponsoring conferences and community gatherings, and
sponsoring undertakings to build applications and increase user adoption across the entire
ecosystem.
This will likely be a multi-year process, but is included in this 2017 Roadmap for the sake of
clarity and understanding surrounding our organization’s plans and goals.
We have several very large initiatives currently in research serving this goal, and the
community should expect further announcements later in the year regarding our firm plans as
it yields fruit.
Ultimately, the goal is to harmoniously align the interests of all participants across the entire
spectrum of people using and trading in STEEM.

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fitzgibbon (61) · 7 years ago

This sounds great, but I don't think it fully aligns with the current actions the Steemit team is taking actually. I've seen there has been some SP (about 3.5million) being delegated to a very specific and limited group of people, I've monitored their behavior on the platform and at first glance it just doesn't seem to harmoniously align the interests of all participants across the entire spectrum of people using the platform.. If you'd like more info on this, you can reach me through one of the steem channels on discord.

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benjojo (70) · 7 years ago

This is very interesting. Thank you both and to @surfyogi for finding it. I still think it's very vague and there is no effective way to participate in discussions or track progress with any of it. Annual updates are useless. I still don't know if the Steem is a Steemit asset or a community asset. I still want to know explicitly. I still want to know how much Steem they control in total.

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ned (69) · 7 years ago

It's a steemit inc asset - I'm not sure what you mean by a community asset. We don't make any promises about the uses of it and can't, legally.

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ned (69) · 7 years ago (edited)

Also, we never have - the disenfranchising rhetoric is coming after a long time of contributing here and from who knows who (examine their incentives too). Look to BAT, Gnosis, Ripple if you'd care to examine organizations operating similarly.

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benjojo (70) · 7 years ago

I am aware that you have nefarious detractors and I'm certainly not on their side ned. You know i've been around a while and I hope you know from not just my words but my actions, my history in the blockchain, that I am sincere. I'm not always right, far from it, but I will call out issues when I see them. This is a big one. It gives a lot of unecessary ammo to those who'd like to see steem fail. I want the opposite because....as we've clearly seen....the world needs steem or something like it, right now.

I'm not sure what you mean by looking to BAT, Gnosis and Ripple. I do not think they are models worth emulating. Ripple in particular should be avoided in my opinion. Steemit.inc has to set itself way higher than those projects if it is to retain the community's trust, fend off enemies and bring steem to the biggest audience.

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2 votes

sornprar (7) · 7 years ago

You have possibly exemplified one of my previous points here, Ned - "the disenfranchising rhetoric is coming after a long time of contributing here...".
If you mean 'long time of contributing here' before it grew, when it was just you and your buddies and a few of their insiders, how can it be labelled as "disenfranchising rhetoric" rather than "a valid point in need of addressing"?
I don't point this out to be spiteful or because I have never gotten any gain from any steemit asset that I know of (aside from the initial account's approval). I point it out because of seeing old account insiders profiting handsomely off of YouTube video cut/paste posts (with little to no personal commentary) while also seeing new account outsiders pouring their time and efforts into arts/music/etc. with little to no exposure or reward.
It's a great Social Site platform, flawed as it is useful and entertaining. But is it a revenue stream where "authors get paid for..." or is it a game where authors gamble their investments for entertainment purposes only? And can you at least agree that if the game looks or feels fixed it's worth looking into and getting answers?

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gemdi (50) · 7 years ago

Hello, I'm competing in OPENMIC 45, I would appreciate your vote, look at my BLOG ... I'll follow you back. Thank you.

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benjojo (70) · 7 years ago

Hi ned, thank you for answering that one explicitly. The difference between a steemit.inc asset and a community asset is that the community can expect a totally different level of accountability, transparency and involvement in the past, present and future use of the asset. As it is a steemit.inc asset, the community has no claims to anything. It's yours to do with as you wish of course.....the rest of the steem economy must hope that that it's use continues to work in their general favor.

Do you recognise the potential (one day) for a conflict of interest to develop between steemit.inc and the rest of the steem economy? Do you recognise that even today, investors might be given pause by so large a stake and influence in the hands of one small group of people? It gives me pause and I think you've all been doing your best.

It would be good to know who the steemit.inc stakeholders are. Is that information available? I've looked but couldn't find it.

I completely get that you may need to be careful from a legal standpoint but you can't hide from the reality of the distorting effects and potential for harm with such a massive stake sitting at the center of steem.

I am not trying to be a thorn in anyone's side, I really want to move past this stuff and do the things i enjoy and think are important on here. But I can't close my eyes to such big issues and the (from what I can see and read) apparent lack of handling. I think you are a very good guy Ned. You are most likely working your ass off and up late at night both worrying about steem and buzzing with excitement and ideas for its future. I do think that steemit.inc are making mistakes however.

Anyway, you've answered one of the most important questions, thank you. I still wonder how many latent accounts steemit.inc also controls and what the total steem influence is.

I wish there was a way for you to fund ongoing development, reward the shareholders of steemit.inc handsomely, be completely transparent about steem holdings, communicate more effectively with the steem community (which means telling us all about the issues you are dealing with, your concerns, your mitigations, current status, legal advice, spending, priorities, plans.....you know all the stuff you sit in a board room discussing) and quickly do away with the majority of the rest of the steemit.inc controlled steem. I'm not asking much am i? :) I genuinely believe that would make steem far stronger and give it far better chance of going mainstream.

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ned (69) · 7 years ago

Understood, thanks.

I still wonder how many latent accounts steemit.inc also controls and what the total steem influence is.

It's three or four accounts. steem, steemit, steemit2, steemit3. the stake should be available on steemwhales.com

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benjojo (70) · 7 years ago (edited)

Thank you very much. I really feel for the first time that I've reached you and been heard. I can't express how much better that makes me feel. To completely close this loop, I will wait patiently but expectantly for something tangible to come back from you or Steemit.inc that addresses these concerns. Obviously my ideas are all surface wishes, when you get down to the practical realities, I don't expect you to be able to suddenly deliver on everything...but a firm migration towards those ideals would be wonderful and not just a little inspiring.

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2 votes

https://steemit.com/steem/@icedrum/don-t-use-vote-selling-bots-use-promoted-instead-a-bot-that-upvotes-you-when-you-burn-money-re-published

icedrum (70) · 7 years ago

Hello @ned - Thank you for your brilliant and historic work!
Could I ask you to take a quick look at this post originally written by heimindanger and give your thoughts - I think you could, or perhaps should fund this project (or similar) so as to rid steemit of bots and game players and keep the profit within the real steemit community?

all the best @icedrum

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fitzgibbon (61) · 7 years ago

Hi @benjojo, I'm following this topic closely. The questions you ask are indeed important questions, but I've seen other posts with questions to Steemit Inc from other long-time Steemians go unanswered.

Just in case you will not get an answer on these questions (which seems to be likely, considering past experience) , is there anything you plan to do, other than just posting these questions again?

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benjojo (70) · 7 years ago

If you mean what is the effect of these questions going unanswered, well I think it's ultimately the erosion of trust in steemit.inc and the steem token.....the effects of which are an increase in the likelihood of hard forks, damaged perception beyond steem and potentially a reduction in the value of steem.

Why would they not answer the questions? They are very reasonable questions for anyone with a long-term interest in the success of steem.

The present situation has caused me to react in several ways already...

a) Change my posting habits - I've had no choice but to spend much more of my time bringing awareness to these issues and trying to make contact with steemit.inc.
b) Considering my level of investment within steem and what I may have to do to protect it.
c) Doing what I can to support the development of a hard fork alternative to steem, Calibrae.
d) No longer actively marketing steem or steemit to friends, relatives and colleagues.
e) More of my attention is on alternatives to steem, like EOS.
f) Continue doing whatever I feel is necessary to help make steem the best it can be.

Let me be clear, the effects of the steem controlled by steemit, the comms and handling are with us now and pervasive, most of us just see the tip of the iceberg so to speak. It's all happening with or without my raising it up or whatever I choose to do or not do. In the scheme of things, I matter very little. The reason I am putting my reputation on the line, taking risks to highlight issues and attract the ire of the powerful is because I care. I care that all this activity, all the steemians that have come to understand blockchains, have come to learn new expectations, have hopefully glimpsed the vision of a better world and how to achieve it......will retain that value and can carry it with them.

I could be wrong or right about everything.....all I can do is call it as I see it and hope for the best. If I don't like it, I can always leave, though I would much prefer we open up and deal with things together.

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fitzgibbon (61) · 7 years ago (edited)

Spoken like a true Steemian. Open, honest, vulnerable but true to the cause. I appreciate that. Maybe you matter little in the grand scheme of things, but your voice matters to me, simply because it rings true.

I truly hope the Steemit Inc team will answer these questions, I feel that the urgency to do so is rising..

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benjojo (70) · 7 years ago

Thank you. Your comment means a great deal to me.

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https://steemdb.com/powerup

teamsteem (74) · 7 years ago

I think we would all love to know more about this issue.

They've actually re-powered up quite a lot. I think a big part of the issue is that the market is in a constant flux and they can't really say they'll sell a some x amount or at some x rate. I agree that Steemit is holding a lot and that's tricky for all of us investors but at this point Steemit seems like they believe in their stake and aren't in a rush to liquidate it.

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vup (48) · 7 years ago

I'm not even close to your knowledge but what matters in the first place is the obvious fact that steemit is mostly a 'game' and it's supposed to stay that way.

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benjojo (70) · 7 years ago

If it is a game, then winning or losing doesn't matter.....it's the taking part that counts. :) Only it's not a game, this is as real as it gets. People's productivity, savings, earnings, ability to communicate, ability to send money is at stake.

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2 votes

sn0n (60) · 7 years ago

Well,.. life is but a game sir.

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whatamidoing (69) · 7 years ago (edited)

"Do you recognise its existence as a possible threat to the future of steem as a result of perceived influence or the potential for conflicts of interest between Steemit.inc shareholders and the Steem community?"

Thank you for asking this, it's quite related to my concern. Many conflicts of interest need to be addressed, both by @ned and by the whale and witness community who have, to a large extent, expressed an attitude of "who cares if under the surface this place becomes a cesspool for meaningless SEO type content and corporate accounts, my steem will be worth millions".

I see a clear conflict of interests between content creators and investors at steemit.com as long as investments in steem are deeply tied to influence (sp) as a content contributor/curator. It's very lucrative for investors because they have two ways to profit from investing in steem, the rising price of steem (same as any investment), but also from their activity at steem which will have much more weight than someone who doesn't have the monetary resources to buy in (hi!). Because money is much more reliable in attracting money than good content is, eventually a vast majority of steem power will belong to the biggest investors and a few early users with only a tiny fraction belonging to content creators. We are talking massive wealth and power inequality, very similar or even worse to what's happening in the world economy now. The only positive aspect of this economic disparity is that people have the option to rely on their regular jobs and treat this as bonus income, a luxury which will become increasingly rare as all this new AI continues to replace jobs.

I understand that STEEM is what allows us to cash out our earnings at steemit, but there should be some kind of regulations that could be put in place which curb the amount of power that investors will have at the platform and keep the place a healthy environment for us regular users who don't have much to invest.

The few people who understand this trend seem to think it's just inevitable and Isn't worth fighting, which basically makes me feel like I should just jump on the "fuck it, my steem will be worth more" train and take my hopes for a thriving online community of substance somewhere else when the time comes. I know many content creators feel the same.

I hope I am able to find more people who share my concerns, people who understand crypto and investment, maybe even the history of world economics better than I do because I know I'm not the best at expressing all this.

I hope the overall goal of steemit is greater than just becoming a profitable business because it has the potential to fix a lot that is broken. If these concerns are addressed, it could fix a large chunk of economic disparity in the world and shift power back to regular people... if not, it will just be more of the same, a few individuals profit and everyone else is kind of just fucked. I won't judge, but it'll be a colossal waste of an amazing opportunity.

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benjojo (70) · 7 years ago

I have the same or very similar concerns. It would be interesting to get some data on how the distribution of Steem is coming along. That will tell us if we can hope that steem is getting into the hands of more people and at what rate the centralised stake is dispersing. Obviously, steemit.inc have the possibility to supercharge that process and I really hope they choose and relatively soon.

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whatamidoing (69) · 7 years ago (edited)

I would love to get some analysis on the rate of growth for some of the biggest whales vs dolphins and minnows....the rate of growth from minnow to dolphin now vs a year ago and a year from now....and an in depth comparison of those who have bought in with hose who have not....it seems like really difficult stuff to analyze because you have curators and creators and people who just sit on their investments, use bots, start initiatives for selfish or not so selfish reasons, you have users who write about fringe topics and those who post their titties or what they cooked for dinner and there is no concrete way to say what is good content or even time consuming content.... but perhaps some case studies and comparisons between similar users could be done. This is not my field of expertise,but something I'd love to see.

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steemit-turkey (55) · 7 years ago (edited)

@benjojo
the turkish community needs some help. @baharoba tries everything what is possible but only she can not carry the whole community. i try to help them too but my power is to low... :/
if we could get some help would this be awesome :)
i would be grateful if you are willing to help or to show a way. we can talk about it at discord or steemit.chat if you want.
best wishes @oendertuerk

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benjojo (70) · 7 years ago (edited)

hi steemit-turkey, what kind of support do you need? The majority of my stake is delegated to supporting the minnows support project so further delegation is unfortunately off the cards for now. Let me know if you had something else in mind.

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steemit-turkey (55) · 7 years ago

HI @benjojo. sry for the late reply. i have wrtie you in steemit.chat with my real account @oendertuerk. pls check it.

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catonwheels (54) · 7 years ago

Tough questions indeed, this place is a real rabbit hole. I hope we get some answers, as the community continues to get bigger, the issues are going to get bigger as well.

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benjojo (70) · 7 years ago

Absolutely. Everyone, new and older needs to be able to understand some of the critical issues around influence. We've all seen what happens when influence is abused. It's no trivial matter.

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cornholio (50) · 7 years ago

The streets will flow with the blood of the non-believers...

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arcaneinfo (62) · 7 years ago

It is ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL that everyone understands exactly what that steem is for now and in the future.

Important question..

"Do you have a communications manager at Steemit.inc?" NO!

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sharoonyasir (58) · 7 years ago

I was so glad to read this post. These are mostly the things that I used to think about but somehow couldn't put it in the form of questions mainly because my knowledge of Steemit isn't vast enough. I hope these queries and ambiguities get properly answered.

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benjojo (70) · 7 years ago

I'm very happy I was able to help articulate something that was causing you concern. You are far from alone. I really hope they address these issues.

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ccm1976 (29) · 7 years ago

I still have a few cents, but the important thing in this social network is the great sharing of information, culture and history that provides us daily. I am completely out of financial markets, I prefer texts and articles on poetry and culture, we can also put aside the slander of Facebook and the uncharismatic Twitter. We will continue to explore Steemit, the mental condition so forces it.

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helal (39) · 7 years ago

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