Greetings to all Steemians,
This post is about some things that concern me about the steemit platform in general. You can call it a rant if you like. But these concerns should be everyone's concerns not just mine. Please read through carefully, sometimes I have a problem conveying my thoughts to words.
Plagiarism
Some people and organizations here on steemit have taken it upon them selves to be the moral police and flagging peoples posts for plagiarism with out notice or explanation. This I do not think has happen to me yet as far as I know. Maybe you should check and be sure @carpenterbee.
For petes sake, if your going to flag someone for plagiarism at least do the person a favor and let them know what it is they did wrong. Think about it! How are they going to correct the problem if they do not know what it is they are doing wrong? Link definitions, Show them or link to posts that show them how to properly cite other peoples work in their posts. This willy nilly flagging with out explanation will hurt the community more then help it.
Censorship
This platform was advertised as being a DE-centralized and UN-censor-able platform. If people are going to start using the flagging system to start limiting another authors post just because they do not agree with its content then that is CENSORSHIP!
I seen a post yesterday that listed community guidelines! WTF! Again community guidelines are a form of censorship. One group of peoples beliefs or views being projected onto a community as a whole. This community that is supposed to be all for DE-centralization and against censorship. So whats up with that?
From what I see in my personal opinion is that these people that are projecting these so called guidelines either (1) have no idea what personal responsibility is or (2) choose not to employ personal responsibility.
Adult material - has a place here, its category is called NSFW tag. If you click the link to view the content then it is your personal responsibility for doing so. If you do not wish to view such material then it is your personal responsibility NOT to click the link to view. See where I am to go with this?
Hate speech – it is still a matter of personal responsibility. The author’s personal responsibility for posting it. The reader’s personal responsibility NOT to up-vote if it is disagreeable to his or her beliefs or view. The personal responsibility of the author of the reply comment to the post.
Using the flagging system to run people off the platform just because they may have posted something contrary to what the reader believes, is censorship plain and simple.
Junk posting
With the technology we have today we can fit the contents of the entire library of congress on a thumb drive. I doubt that the amount of so called “junk posts” would amount to more then 1% of the total content on the block chain.
Besides who’s call is it to determine what is junk? and whats not? Is a meme a junk post if it makes the reader smile? Is it junk if it up lifts someone out of mental depression? What if some one was contemplating suicide and a meme post with nothing else, caused that person to change their mind? Would that post be junk?
Every post on steemit has some type of value. It is someone expressing them selves. Condemning a post as junk is your personal opinion only! Again it returns to personal responsibility. Don’t like it don’t up-vote it. After all it is the community as a whole that decides what is junk and what is not, by the up-votes a post gets. Up-voting gets a post seen more. Don’t up-vote and the post buries its self.
There is no real need that I can see for the flagging system. If steemit is true to the statement of not being a censored platform then it needs to be removed. It is there now and it will eventually get abused by people in this community for personal vengeance because they seen a title that offended them or some other childish reason. I wish the developers to remove the flagging system. If nothing else, from view of the general population of the community.
I hope this was comprehensible. I hope that it is informative. I hope that it …. well anyway employ your personal responsibility and up-vote or not. Just do me a favor and remember this following message.
Every individual choice you make, good and bad is your very own personal responsibility. You and you alone Own it!
Peace to all and have a great day!
my avatar image provided by http://www.clker.com/clipart-teal-bee.html
I am new here and I was confused by that as well. I still don't totally understand who all these bots are, and who steemcleaner is and if they are officially appointed to clean up Steemit(?) or if there are community guidelines and if so where are they posted? So it's interesting to see someone who has been here longer talking about this.
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I am also fairly new to steemit, I joined in June 2017. I am still looking for some type of official community guidelines from the owners of steemit, If there are any.
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Yes, me too. It's a bit of the wild west here, which I kind of like. But it leaves me sometimes puzzled about how things work.
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Very appropriate characterization of the situation. See my comment to your other comment above.
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https://steemit.com/faq.html
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OK I'll go read the hole faq again.
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The Steemcleaners and other bots are all community projects. They don't have any official backing. Just community support. They also are fallible and can make errors, just worth noting, as I've had a post incorrectly flagged for tag spam although the tags were (clearly) appropriate, and it was later retracted from the report.
There aren't really community guidelines, it's more like there are a lot of sub-communities and they each have their own sort of "culture", if you will. You kind of have to walk on egg-shells until you know who's house you are in, then you can act more appropriately.
By "who's house you are in", I mean if you act the wrong way in the wrong sub-community, you are likely to get flagged out and be unable to earn rewards. The smaller you are, the more generating a backlash against yourself can really hurt your potential earnings or reputation. Part of this is because the official line on voting (up or down/flags) is that there is no official line - each user can use their vested share as they see fit.
Also, my personal rule I try to follow was also stated below by @realitycheck:
Positivity will earn you many more friends here. If you can't post something positive in a post, and it's not abuse (spam/plagiarism etc.) you should probably just move on to another post, not vent in the comments, unless you are willing to be diplomatic and open to new ideas.
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Yes, I have been getting that "eggshell" feeling and I've been (mostly) on my best behavior. So far I have really no idea whose house I'm in or if I'm even in a house! I feel more like I am wandering the moors, searching for a familiar hummock. Not sure who the subcommunities are yet. I have sensed various themes running through things, but so far they haven't coalesced in my mind.
So I guess I'll just...put on a happy face!
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Better to engage than flag in my opinion.
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Very true. Positivity will earn you many more friends here.
If you can't post something positive in a post, and it's not abuse (spam/plagiarism etc.) you should probably just move on to another post, not vent in the comments, unless you are willing to be diplomatic and open to new ideas.
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Agree.
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Agreed there should be no flagging system, everyone needs to take personal responsibility. Censorship is what this platform should avoid at all cost, because that is the reason people are coming here, well one of them. No one wants censorship, we are all tired of that. in a free market there is no need for a system of coercion, it balances itself out.
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Having no flagging is the reverse form of censorship. Since it takes the same voting power that you can upvote with, it costs a user directly to employ it. It's just another form of voting stake.
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very nice post. I would upvote, but need to make a break on doing so, ´cause my Steempower value is so low right now.
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No problem, just commenting can help.
Thanks for your comment. and resteem.
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Nice post @carpenterbee. I have asked this question to more advances users awhile back. The flag is just a downvote really. And Rarely used. If used it would be nice to know why sometimes no doubt. I have heard stories of people who truly DO abuse this platform. That is what it is for. There are even accounts set up to deal with abusers. No platform is free of some sort of guidelines. We are human animals, some with hearts, sone with minds and sone with base instincts. It's a rollercoaster. Ride it! ;)
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Thanks, The thing about this world we live in today is it is so screwed up, different from when I was a kid. Oh my kids today, would get there ass kicked back in my childhood. From what I have read in the Q&A flagging will take down the reputation faster then un-voting if you voted on the post in the first place. I do not know for sure still learning this stuff. Nice to see you in my comments section. :)
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I know right! Kids today hahaha! Ya if you flag too much your rep goes down and no one will follow you. There is that nugget. Steem On!
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Carpenterbee, you have no idea how much I agree with you, indeed today nothing makes sense anymore. What used to be right now is wrong. The world is becoming uncivilized, everything is up-side-down, all moral values thrown out the window. Today is this presumption of guilt that one supposedly starts with, and has to defend against and prove otherwise to anyone who wants to attack that person. We are all considered guilty unless we can demonstrate otherwise, when dealing with entities that have some sort of power to take us down. The attacker gets more credit than the victim, and doesn't have to prove anything. It's sad and laughable at the same time, but those are the times we live in, that is why there is a need for change, this circus it's been going on for too long.
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I think you said it all right there. It will not change until it hits a "enough is enough" point to cause change for the better.
Every thing that has been happening the last forty years or so up to today and the near future has been explained in revelations. I am not a church going person (explanation can be a blog post all on its own) but I have read the bible cover to cover multiple times, one phrase stands out to me now. "As in the days of Noah so shall it be"
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OK first of all you get my upvote for the simple fact you managed to get the words willy nilly into a post :)
Also, I think you have a good point, the flagging system sucks, I personally have never used it, and I don't think I've been flagged, but I have seen people like b.sanders abuse it and I think it's childish, and it has no place here.
Great post
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Thank you very much. lol "willy nilly" guess that shows my age.
"carpenterbee bandwidth limit exeeded. Please wait to transact or power up STEEM."
Oh for cripe sake
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I joined Steemit for the opportunity to share, learn and express personal opinions- and even have a lively, but not hateful, debate with others.
I post genuine topics that mean something to me and would expect a conversation back and forth; not just 'good post', 'nice post', etc.
I reply, upvote, resteem when I see a topic or idea that is interesting and what others may find important. But to just say good/nice post and move on is not what I am here for.
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to reply to the first two sentences of yours. I agree, that is the way it should be.
to the rest of your comment
what is wrong with "good post", "nice post" ? so they did not engage with you. Does that mean that those comments are worthless? There have been several comments I have left with those words. Does it make them less meaningful because I did not engage more? depending on the post, I might have thought it is a good or nice post but I could not add anything more beneficial to the post. or I liked the post but did not know how to respond to the content. When we put our selves in a state where these little things annoy us, we should stop and ask our selves why does it bother me so much. I personally appreciate any comment I get on my post. good, bad or short. It does not make them any less important as a contribution. You could think of it this way, they commented and left you an opening to continue the engagement. ask them what they liked about the post. what provoked them to leave a comment. etc.
if engagement is what you want and all they leave is a "good post" then engage them.
Thank you for your comment it is truly appreciated.
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I guess maybe I am looking for more communication. I realize the person(s) took the time to stop in and read my post and I completely understand your comment about not really having much more to add to the conversation, so I take the 'tsk-tsk' for my comment of not liking good/nice post.
I believe you have opened my eyes to something here in your comment to me. I see so many posts and comments about people not liking the good/nice post comments and I jumped the bandwagon of the majority; which is unlike me. Appreciate your words to help me see through it. (sigh) now I feel guilt... but it's all good. Viewpoints and listening to others' comments is a positive thing
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It was never my intention to guilt you or cause you guilt or anyone else for that matter. I just would like everyone to be more aware of what they are writing and to not take it for granted if someone posts a two line post or a one or two word comment. it's like what I have posted in the "Junk posting" portion of the above post. people are not stepping back and thinking, just judging a post for content size and not the content its self. I really hope i am making sense here.
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This caught my eye: "Every post on steemit has some type of value."
Exactly. I say that information wants to be free. Information wants to propagate. There is no such thing as bad information. Information can neither be created or destroyed. It can be organized and interpreted and that's it. As to good and bad, well, that is in the eye of the beholder.
I have been oscillating on the point of flagging myself for some time now. Your article convinced me that we do not need a flagging system. The upvote system is enough.
Even if I disagree with the ideas in a post, I still upvote it if it makes me think and has evidence of good writing (grammar, flow of ideas, punctuation is a plus).
I have upvoted, resteemed and followed you. Glad to meet you.
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Thank you very much, glad to meet you also. My grammar still needs some work. And its a work in progress. lol I posted with out my editor looking at it first (my wife). but anyway when I get a burr under my saddle I tend to be more focused on what I am writing about. and this burr has really rubbed me raw for the last few days. Thanks for your comment, up-vote and follow. It is truly appreciated.
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Hello @carpenterbee
Agree with Spam and Plagiarism points but not with the notion that there is censorship. Why is that?
Because a 🏁 flagged post is not removed. It sits on Steemit for good, albeit less visibility - granted.
I have been the target of flagging for political views - not spam/plagiarism. While this is clearly wrong, it is for us to rally the community, just as you doing now, and name-and shame serial down-voters with questionable motives.
Thanks for this post!
-ch @globocop
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That is true, its still on the block chain forever. what I am upset about is the fact that someone that chooses that route and is using the flagging system to purposefully reduce the posts visibility just because they are apposed, offended, cannot come up with a good retort, take your pick reason.
You also have to remember it effects your reputation more then removing an up-vote. at least that is what I took from all the reading I did, trying to learn about this block chain technology. If I am wrong then please correct me with the proper information.
If someone really wanted to get someone kicked off this platform and they flag every post the target posts would it not force the target to purchase steem to power up?
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Oh I am all with you! I Have been the target of such attack by some misguided 'professional' down-voters as well - who are openly bragging about their mischief. They made it on my BLACK LIST. That is abuse and - and it is unacceptable.
When the time is right, they shall experience their reward. But play it smart...
-ch @globocop
I think this is why it is important to build up our reputation so that we can take a hit - and fight back.
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indeed,
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Check out this post by @ausbitbank and consider voting him for witness if not already done. :) Vote Here
These bots - have a look at them:
Also, @fyrstikken, dragosroua, @aggroed witnesses are worth a vote for their transparency and minnowsupport.
-ch @globocop
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done
@fyrstikken showed up as an invalid account or unknown account something like that
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Oh yes - it's @fyrst-witness - for @fyrstikken...
Great stuff. Will publish an article on Witnesses in the next 48...
-ch @globocop
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Very good post, I am suppose to not be voting right now because I need to bring up my % again after draining it not understanding how it works, but this post is too good not to upvote
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You get 0.08% voting power back every 30 min i believe. This is so people do not abuse their voting power. It makes a lot of sense.. Read up on voting power posts. Ignorance of the system is on you alone. There are tonnes of people and articles to help here. The learning curve can be steep but it is worth it.
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I totally agree, and lessons learned teach hard lessons, I won't be doing the bot things, and now I understand more and how the voting thing works, and am using my powers on limited basis till I am powered back up to 100% then I am gonna watch to make sure I don't hit under 80% unless it is really worth it.
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You got it!
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Steemit is not allowing me to vote either until I am back up to 100% and I still had 67% voting power left which is something else I do not understand. It had to be something that was added to the code recently I think. Thank you for the comment.
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I haven't been on Steemit very long and I am learning something new every time I login. It's a great platform, but is going through some pretty big growing pains. Something I have noticed is all the bots. They seem to operate in a grey area and it seems pretty tough to trust all of them. Which bots are trustworthy? Does using an upvote or promtion bot work or is it better to get votes more organically?
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I suggest not using them unless you understand how it all works, and though the auto-exchanges sound good, don't do it, it is how my voting power got drained. It takes days to recover to 100% voting power
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Ya I am still trying to figure all of that out too. I keep draining all of my voting power all of the time. I tried to convert the few SBD I had from my intro post and I'm waiting for it to be converted to Steem so I can power up. I didn't realize how that all worked. have also gotten the bandwidth limit error a few times and I'm not really sure how that works either. So much to learn!
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Try logging out and rebooting your browser when you get that error, if that doesn't work reboot your computer then try again, it should work after doing one of those two things, or at least it has for me
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I agree, Its better to figure it out before allowing a bot to vote for you
@tecnosgirl thank you for the gift.
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I drained my voting power and this posted deserved more than the penny my vote gave it. Keep up good quality posts like this.
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The bots as far as I can tell are not created by the developers, and I do not trust any of them for decision making. I would rather make my choices myself. could these bots be making up-votes in your name on content you do not agree with? makes you think!
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Thanks for opening this conversation up @carpenterbee, I think you're totally right, if steemians are going to be on their high horses of freedom and liberty then the platform and the actions they take should reflect that.
Question for anyone who's more experienced here: Are whale flaggs worth more than minnow? I dont believe I've ever been flagged but it's a little discouraging some whale who doesnt like what I have to say could come along and squash me
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I agree with the squash me part. This post was intended to generate some positive discussion on the use of the flag feature, or a petitioned removal of that feature. The past few days I have seen the possible abuse and the damage it can cause minnows in particular. Even a high level minnow can have a really bad effect on a lower level minnow. I'm just saying that the flag feature should be limited to the witnesses or removed. The rest of the community should be just fine with the voting system alone.
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I think the flags are required but should punish you for using them, say 10x voting power is required to downvote compared to upvote.
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I ate your toast.
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please elaborate a little more? or confirm what I think you just said?
I am reading this as "but should punish the one "using" a flag, taking 10x sp
and not the one being flagged. is that correct?
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No I mean to remove the reward entirely one should have to burn 10x the vote power.
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ok got it now thanks for clarifying that
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Nailed it!
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Thanks, I was wondering if I was the only person seeing this.
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No youre not, and youre absolutely correct about your outlook on decentralization. The community, by way of upvotes or lack thereof will determine what is succesful. There is no need to flag, just dont upvote, resteem, and follow. Its that simple. Have a great day!
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I hope you enjoyed the pun ^^^
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What?
what pun!
I missed the PUN!
Oh Gotya!
I can't believe i missed that!!
LOL Thanks for your comments.
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Youre welcome!
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bots are my issue... downvoting bots from people who post in the same category....
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I agree with that too. I see it as a way people can get around the issue of losing rep and not putting their main account in jeopardy. Another possible way to abuse this great platform. Some people can get so malicious when they think their idealism is the only one that is true. If you think about it. idealism is the basis of censorship. At least one aspect.
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Congratulations @carpenterbee!
Your post was mentioned in my hit parade in the following category:
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Thank you! I am speechless, really.
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"community guidelines"
Guidelines are guidelines, not rules. You are free to ignore them, technically speaking.
"Every post on steemit has some type of value. "
This may be technically true but it's not practically true. There's a bot-net of 3000 accounts that go around making numbered posts on their blog (the whole text of the blog entry is just "1" then the next is "2"), then all 3000 of them vote up each post in order, so they can #rewardpoolrape.
Pretty obvious junk posting with no value.
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Ok that I would have to agree is a junk post, and does nothing for the community but tap into the reward pool. So far I personally have not seen any of these posts.
Those posts I would consider to be an abuse of the system. I would hope that the witnesses already know of the major problems and are taking steps to fix them.
But on community guidelines, If a group that is running a supposed bot(s) for the benefit to the steemit community and starts dictating what should and should not be posted. And you refuse to follow them, then this group uses its bot(s) to down vote/flag your post(s). That is when it becomes censorship and not guidelines. I do not believe anyone here can say for sure that it is not happening now.
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Yeah, it all depends on how rigidly you believe people "can do anything with their stake that they choose", which is basically what the white paper says...
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Thank you for your comments.
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