Steemit: The Anti-Social Network

yabapmatt (69) · 6 years ago

I'm not sure how this turned into a steem monsters bashing post in the comments but this is a huge problem for the future of the Steem blockchain and has nothing to do with steem monsters or how we create accounts specifically.

In order to grow the Steem platform we need new users, and for dApps to be built on Steem and be successful, they need to be able to onboard lots of new users. HF20 was codenamed "velocity" because one of the primary goals of it was to make onboarding new users easier and cheaper for dApps.

Steem Monsters can now claim about 20 discounted account creation tokens / day with our ~200k SP. Each token allows us to create a new account for free without paying the current 3 STEEM account creation fee.

The fact that this does not give the new account enough RC to reasonably transact on the platform and that we need to give the account further delegation means that this goal of HF20 has failed.

As far as I know Steem Monsters is the only app on the Steem platform that creates accounts for new users. The comments on this post seem to suggest that the problem is on our end for not delegating ~15 SP to each account created through our app.

Imagine you're an app developer looking for a blockchain platform to build on. You have a great app idea that could potentially have hundreds of thousands of active users. You look at Steem and find out that you will need to have millions of SP to delegate out to these users or else they will not be able to use your app.

The other alternative is to redirect new users to steemit.com (an unrelated site they've never heard of) so they can go through a very lengthy process to get an account by which point they've forgotten about your site entirely.

I have had almost this exact conversation with someone interested in building what seemed like a very promising app on the Steem blockchain, and I'm sure you can guess what the outcome was.

The point of all this is that, very simply, the RCs given from the burned account creation fee (or discounted account creation token) must be enough to reasonably transact or the Steem platform has no future. Period.

This is not an issue with how Steem Monsters creates its accounts, it is a fundamental issue preventing the growth of the Steem blockchain.

$8.11

10 votes

aggroed (78) · 6 years ago

So, I think there's a case for making accounts with almost no activity. If someone just wants essentially a cold storage wallet that should be an option. I think it's good for the platform to have the lowest cost possible option available for people that aren't here to comment away. It doesn't really hurt the network to have these, and it can be good for people to safely store steem and sbd. It makes sense there is a super low cost option.

The question is what to do about accounts that do want to transact. The options are power up steem, delegate steem, and there appears a third option of delegating RCs. Though that third option doesn't exist yet.

So, this experiment is new and it hasn't been super clear for the last while exactly where RC pools and RC prices would land. I think things are a little more stable so it's a little easier to see. As before it looks like an account needs about 15 steem power to have a decent experience. The question is how to get it there.

Steem Monsters and other dapps could give away free steem, could delegate free steem, could charge more and give back some steem as power, or could charge more and give back some steem power. In the future we could also choose to delegate RCs.

I tend to think the best long term solution is to delegate RCs. This is already under development and there are github issues related to it. Maybe parts will be here before SMTs launch in March. Maybe not. I don't think it's safe to count on them.

So, I think RC delegation is the long term solution. The short term solution is likely charging more and putting steem on an account, or charging more and putting steem power on an account, or simply relying on the social aspect of this place to work itself out.

These things can also often happen socially where new accounts find places like the minnow support project share they don't have enough rcs to interact enough and kind people delegate small amounts of SP to them. I've seen that happen over the year and a half the place has existed. The steem monsters discord group is filled with people that want to help others as well. You can see that through the sheer number of contests that members run. I think folks could also wade into the discord and let people know they are RC limited and folks will help.

I don't think it should be automatic that everyone and anyone can suddenly get a ton of activity on the chain. This will lead to spam and spam will reduce all of our rewards. So, I currently like that there is a gate to higher activity. The question is how to pay for the gap for users who aren't spammers.

So, between now and RC delegation I'm torn between charging more to delegate or hand back steem power, or having the community delegate. Also, keep in mind that we have a free upvote service. Folks can get powered up by getting a introduceyourself post out there and getting votes from the steemmonsters community or steemmonsters account.

So, it's not currently seamless, there is still more work to do 2 weeks after HF20 landed, and in the meantime there are very low cost social work arounds (150 steem power for a week costs 1 steem last I checked, and could cover 10 new accounts for 1 week).

As for Steem Monsters all prioirities are maxxed on getting fighting out. Which happens on sunday. Once that's done there's time to look at other things like "what do we do about new accounts created through our service?"

$0.23

whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

Accounts can be created in many different ways with various results and the amount of transactions is still changing.

By the way, I'm told if an account signs up via SteemIt this is not the results they would expect to see.

I'm still sorting out my opinions on this, but it would be helpful to know where and how you set up the new account.

$6.66

4 votes

ats-david (74) · 6 years ago

I'm told if an account signs up via SteemIt this is not the results they would expect to see.

This is an important point to remember - that the user/company/project creating the account will be able to ensure whether the created account has enough SP/RCs to interact on the blockchain.

An account with zero SP obviously won’t be able to do much...but it also isn’t how accounts are typically created for new users. The original post is simply showing that SteemMonsters’ account creation service is inadequate for more “normal” social media use, and probably by design. As far as I can tell, their service is simply provided to card collectors as a means to collect their cards via the game’s interaction with the Steem blockchain. Maybe in the future they can consider delegating or offering upgraded packages that include more SP/RCs.

In any case, it isn’t necessarily a problem with RCs or the system. It’s just an issue with this particular service. I think the post is overly dramatic, considering that it’s about a zero-SP account.

What were the expectations for such an account? Resources cost money. Free accounts are a net drain on resources. Somebody is paying the cost for a user’s “free” interaction.

Complaining about getting a free account from a game’s package-deal and threatening to quit the platform over it is a little absurd, in my opinion. It should be made clear to readers that this is not a situation that most new users will encounter.

$0.14

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

First of all I was unaware of the difference between this account and the one provided by Steemit. (I didn't read through the 500 page manual to understand all the intricacies of this place yet)

Second, I have read the response by @ned and @whatsup and did take the time to thank them for clarifying the fact that the @steemmonsters account is the bare minimum and has nothing given to it to help people use it (like Steemit does with their free accounts).

Third, the concept of even having a social network is you want people to communicate. Of course it costs money, that's called a business. If you want to have a business that consists of a social platform, then you should not complain that the users of the system cost money. ALL SOCIAL PLATFORMS ARE FREE TO COMMENT ON.

Fourth, I bought the @steemmonster package to see what a new account would go through. I PAID $10 to get the account this way. So while Steemit Inc might be so gracious as to loan people enough RCs to make 10 whole comments a day, I'm sure that there will be many that do as @steemmonsters has done and just give the bare minimum. (PS I don't think they did this out of malice, but they haven't read the 500 page user manual either so they can operate through this complex web of rules to follow)

Fifth, what I find absurd is that you jump to the conclusion that me pointing out a FACT means that I have threatened to quit. I did no such thing. I merely pointed out the truth of what I witnessed with my own eyes.

Finally, the condescension that you show here is exactly what makes people have disdain for the whales. Instead of taking the time to point out where I was wrong and having a civil discussion, you basically resorted to calling me "cheap" and "petty" with this line:

Complaining about getting a free account from a game’s package-deal and threatening to quit the platform over it is a little absurd, in my opinion.

You are an arrogant ass for that comment and I have just removed my vote for you as a witness. I don't threaten anything, I just do what I feel is right. And while I might have thought you were a straight shooter in the past and voted for you as a witness, I now see that you have the same problems of the other "elites" here (arrogance).

One day you will find that maybe there's a reason why successful businesses talk to their customers and learn how they feel about the product. Until that day though, you can just keep thinking you are superior to us little newer guys trying to "figure it out".

PS. It is not my job to make this place easy to operate. I will clarify always my opinions and beliefs. I have no plans to create disinformation or to hurt anyone. But maybe people like you should go around and help people to understand things better (since you've read the manual), rather than hurl insults about us being "cheap" and "petty".

$0.09

6 votes

whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

Can you now update the post to reflect where and how you created the account. I get that it was an honest mistake and I know there is a lot of information out there.

This post is currently adding to the FUD.

It would be more factual to say people signing up via Steem Monsters might have this problem.

I am sure you are aware that various Apps might choice different ways to create and fund accounts, so blanket statements will be spreading misinformation.

$0.00

neddykelly (55) · 6 years ago

@ats-david that's true indeed and you state valid facts.. However, this is still a huge fail and I'll explain why.

You landed here from another site such as Google
You haven't heard of the steem blockchain before.
You find steem monsters appealing and purchase the starter set. You join the discord and start competing in the giveaway posts hoping you will earn some free cards
You are blocked after creating 3 comments for some epic card giveaways because you have 0sp after creating an account on steem monsters official website
Scratch head and abandon card's and steem account after a negative experience

Will our new accounts on kickstarter be created via the same method? Let's hope the bugs are ironed out before this

Posted using Partiko Android

idikuci (61) · 6 years ago

right.

But at the same time, steemmonsters is a privately owned business. They should make things clearer on what you're getting for your money.

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

Thank you @whatsup for getting to the bottom of this particular issue. I did get a response from @ned and have since contacted @yabapmatt so that @steemmonsters can duplicate what Steemit does with the new accounts. Your intervention was useful and I appreciate it!

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

I set the account up via @steemmonsters. They give a new account when you join their game with the purchase of a starter pack. I hope you do contact @yabapmatt and find out if his signup process produces any different types of accounts than the regular steemit accounts. I think they would want people to use the platform to at least be able to play the game, so if its different then he should know about it. There will be a lot of unhappy people in a week if they did it wrong. But my thinking is they did it right and these are the new Steemit rules for what an account looks like when its set up. And I paid $10 to have the privilege to comment/post an average of once a day. I do hope you dig into this @whatsup, because if we don't get the older veterans to pay attention this place will become a ghost town with these rules.

$0.00

ned (69) · 6 years ago

The process you’ve gone through is different from Steemit.com’s. Steemit’s includes a delegation for active users, with de-delegation in case the account spams or deactivates. Re-Activated accounts are re-delegated.

$0.00

yabapmatt (69) · 6 years ago

@ned do you expect apps built on the steem platform to be able to delegate to every new account they create, or send new users to steemit to do the same? The solution of the discounted account creation tokens in HF20 is great, but it's worthless if that is not sufficient to reasonably transact.

I'm not aware of any apps on the platform right now other than Steem Monsters that even create accounts for users let alone delegate additional SP. I think that fact really highlights the problem and I think everyone here would be very interested to hear what the plan / expectation is for Steem apps to onboard new users.

$0.38

ned (69) · 6 years ago

It’s a massive innovation that an account with no holdings may transact (there’s no other chain with functionality like this) and another that many have access to creating these accounts (with Account Credits derived from Resource Credits). More apps can now tap into the account creation process.

As for where we go from here — entitlement to high number of social platform level transactions is very high. So this is a sensitive topic. Case study, though: Reddit limits these transactions quite a bit, much more than instagram, Twitter and FB.

To deal with this we can approach it a few ways:

Culturally, by encouraging newbies to buy a few dollars of STEEM. And 1a. By teaching newbies about the system.
Systematically, by Steem having its minimum RCs based on Account raised. (This enables spammers and I don’t recommend it change much).
Rely on a third party for account creations with delegated RCs. Delegated RCs isn’t implemented yet but it will help with this issue by allowing apps to delegate their RCs during their faucet flow. In the meantime there is also the ability to rely on Steemit, which is fufilling this possibility by delegating SP to users that go through our faucet. As part of (3.), Steemit, thanks to HF Velocity and reduced explicit costs of account creation, we will be giving out accounts more liberally, with decreased wait times and more means for basic verification, but with more rigorous de-delegation for spam and inactivity.

Posted from my iPhone. Please excuse mistakes, ommisions and grammatical errors.

$0.00

yabapmatt (69) · 6 years ago

It’s a massive innovation that an account with no holdings may transact ... More apps can now tap into the account creation process.

I definitely agree, and sorry if i glossed over that in my original comment. The RC system and discounted account creation system are a fantastic innovation and you and your team deserve a lot of credit for that.

My point is simply that, if new accounts aren't able to reasonably transact, then it doesn't really matter if more apps can tap into account creation because account creation isn't really what they are after, it's user activity and interaction.

In my opinion, a new account should be able to reasonably transact without additional SP or RC delegation. We, as a community, can decide what exactly constitutes being able to "reasonably transact", but I think most of us can agree that we currently do not meet that definition.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but if the top witnesses were to increase the account creation fee, then that would increase the "minimum RCs based on account", right? So if we, as a community, agree that 15 SP worth of RCs allows a new account to "reasonably transact", then I think that's what the account creation fee should be set to.

Assuming that accounts created using a discounted account creation token would also have 15 SP worth of minimum RCs then I think this solves the problem. Apps can now tap into the account creation process using their invested SP and the accounts they create will have enough RC to reasonably transact without additional SP delegation.

$0.00

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

After reading through all the comments and seeing the equivalent of the 15 SP that gets delegated and what that tiny delegation can do, I would like to tell you that it is certainly better than what I just witnessed through the @steemmonster account. But, I also want to say it is still not enough for the new user to have a meaningful experience. (1 post and 10 comments if I read it correctly)

I think that delegating enough RCs to give them 10 comments and a post is better than this experience of doing basically nothing... but you should realize that people are going to bump into those limits quite quickly and the user experience from a newbie perspective will still be a turnoff. I hope you will consider adjusting the numbers higher and then having a quicker "take back" if its not used properly (ie spam or inactivity).

$0.00

whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

I think 1 post and 10 comments is a great level for a new user. Just fyi, it's all in the opinions. Also if the content creator is talented they could look for a delegation or sponsorship.

Why buy a cow if the milk is free? lol

$0.00

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

We will see if you are right, I know I and the people I speak with would disagree strongly. I guess you will tell by the user statistics. I just hope you don't lose too much credibility in the process of finding the right balance. If it were me, I'd err on the side that makes people not notice that there is a restriction... but its not me so I will watch with you and see how the results come out over time.

And the cow and the milk analogy is a good analogy that fits perfectly with the thinking of the veterans of this place I know. The issue I have with it though, is it assumes that Steemit is a premium platform. I would've agreed with you for the last 10 months, but if you restrict commenting (ie free speech) then I think this place goes from a premium site to a place where only a niche of investors use it. To me its a shame, but I hope I wrong!

$0.10

cicisaja (66) · 6 years ago

I don't think Steemit is a place for everyone or communities anymore😊 I sign up for free account and still wait to see how its work after the approval. I still read the nice words "Steemit is where you get paid for your post and comments" and weku has that tagline too.

But..I think there's never a free lunch in this world 😂 and steemit is not a different business in this world... nothing will change like everyone's dreaming about it in the early of this year😊 if we still have to purchase steem with fiat money or power down to get cash, better back to my wordpress 😂

$0.14

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

:P I agree Cici! That is exactly the point. If they can't keep quality people like you here, then there is something seriously wrong. I hope you stay and hang out with me and your friends though, I don't care so much about the platform anymore but I do still like my friends. And ps... we are still going to get going bigtime on the steemmonsters game, at least that is something that is still worth doing ;)

$0.00

cicisaja (66) · 6 years ago

😂😂😂 like I said before... If I didn't witnessed the golden time of Steemit.. I will stay to witness it falls 😊 this platform indeed has different valuable users like you, pifc, the leagues and steemmonsters 😉 aahh.. I need to write a story to get some booster pack too 😂

$0.00

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

very good :) ... I'm happy to hear that!!!

and yes we need to get you that booster pack and I will be working with you soon as the games will be starting in 8 days :)

$0.00

cicisaja (66) · 6 years ago

Oh no... the closing date of the challenge is october 15th.. I hope I can get it faster😯 well.. I'll reach you on discord if we need to start my preparation for the games, coach☺

$0.00

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

Yes please do... I will get you prepared for battle and ready to win some really cool stuff ;)

$0.00

bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

I'm still trying to figure out what they think is spam, evidently it is any social type of comment. Advertising things like crypto coins to users is not spam, (air drops - they are all advertisements so to me SPAM). Advertising their bid bots, advertising I voted for you at full power ain't i cool, hey try partico, or actifit, or this comment reminder system, or try this app, or this program, or hey, look at my steemhunt post or my dlike post.

I'm sorry can someone explain how those are not spam, and why the hell would a company want to advertise on steem when they have steem hunt and dlike and whatever the next advertise for us and we might give you a $0.001 reward in steem. Or we might give you an upvote at 1% power that is valued at - - -$0.000 - - -

None of HF20 was done to prevent Spam, it was done seemingly to increase spam, and to make it where only votes would count for anything. They do not want people to be able to post, cut down on the postings from the smaller people and then they would be forced to come back and vote on our content because the new user can not post nor comment only vote.

They have always had a spam control on steemit, it is called the mute button. I have a lot of bots and boosters on mute because I got tired of the big stupid comments from them. If people used the Mute, the bots and spam would simply go away.

$0.13

6 votes

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

I agree completely @bashadow... And yes I totally agree that the "spam" is a red herring that makes the story sound good and reasonable. The bottom line is this is once again about making sure the people at the top (whales) get the power to make more money (leasing their RCs). If they can lease them to organizations and make money, then you can bet that is what they are going to do. I have seen the comments from some of them and they are basically giddy with joy over their newfound income stream.

Of course they don't care if all of us leave, we are basically a nuisance to them anyways. I am positive that the number of new accounts will plummet under this new situation, so it will be as it is. I will keep my friends and keep dealing with you all, but my faith in the platform and the long term quality of the people running it is basically 0.

Always good talking to you @bashadow and I'm looking forward to our games that start here in a week or so (better than this negativity) :)

personz (66) · 6 years ago (edited)

Spam is a red herring because it's not what the change is intended to deal with. It's the cost of the network, the resources on servers to keep Steem alive. They've moved to pricing them more strictly.

This change is not balanced, as you see, but be clear about it - free accounts are now the lowest priority. If you power up your account don't forget that you still own those tokens.

I'm quietly advocating for change to the current situation anyway.

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

yes I agree completely with you. The spam issue is a complete red herring. I wish they would stop saying it, because it insults my intelligence too.

I also agree the balance needs to change. I don't have an issue with limiting people's quantity of posts either. What I do have an issue with is comments. ON A SOCIAL NETWORK people should be able to freely share their opinions and thoughts in the comment section. Otherwise, we cease to be a general social platform and just a niche community that does a few things like mine the bots.

cryptkeeper17 (64) · 6 years ago

Sad but true. Thanks for the comical gauntlet of a near impossible shot at growth for the smallest of newbie minnows. They really have to make that one comment count every day.

$0.09

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

now I will wait 9 more minutes to upvote you so that I too can artificially show my support of your point. I would of course upvote you when I feel like it, but if I did that then I don't help anyone other than a few whales. And yes, this is the most ridiculous asinine f'd up system ever. What kinda place do they think this is that people will pay to join and make comments?

I'm pissed and now the gloves are going to come off!

$0.00

bitfiend (59) · 6 years ago

Seems more broken than before...I mean I've experienced my fare share of "nerf's" in the past, to put it in those terms, but this is beyond nerfing. In my opinion it seems broken and the only way to prosper as a newbie is to invest your own money to give yourself some SP and be able to flourish in the same way that I did when I started in 2017. I was able to comment all I wanted...there really weren't any noticeable limitations. It wasn't until I started to expand on my rock posts that consumed my bandwidth but that wasn't too bad either.

This new system is definitely jacked. However; this is certainly not the reason for my absence :P

This was almost planned to cater to bot owners. Not that all bots are bad, but anyone who took the time to make multiple accounts and scatter their wealth throughout them is still business as usual with high rewards but minnows are basically doomed for a real struggle to prosper.

enforcer48 (68) · 6 years ago

Haha...and they are hoping people will come flocking in when they release SMTs.

$0.09

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

they are completely out of their minds if they think people are going to pay to use this place. I'm thinking about stopping using it and I don't have any issues with my comments. Its truly sickens me that they are this grotesquely greedy and are locking the poor out of commenting at all.

enforcer48 (68) · 6 years ago

The funny thing about "poor spammers" is that most of the voting rings I've encountered here are made by dolphins on the platform.

The orcas and whales don't need to do that. They can just self-vote.

aggroed (78) · 6 years ago

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

Awesome @aggroed... I hope you're at the last step right now :) ... we need it ;)

$0.00

aggroed (78) · 6 years ago

You're missing my point. Dave, you're a witness, and this is a reasonably sized project where you can help others in something that you're clearly passionate about. You can go beyond the "help I'm stuck on an escalator" approach and help people in a case where you have identified a problem. Be the social RC change you want to see in the world.

glenalbrethsen (68) · 6 years ago

Hey, @davemccoy.

I think this reminds me of the school bully shakedown of kids for their lunch money.

But not to worry, okay, because, dude, resource credit pools are coming! yeah, so, like, you'll be able to delegate some RCs to the pool and twice as many people will be able to draw from it, and blammo, no more RC poverty, dude.

I think everyone must be using common core math around here. I have no idea how that works. But anyway.

I'd be more likely to call it "We don't care if you're social, we just want your money " network, but that's way too long and yours is much snappier. :)

So, gloves are off. When do you come out swinging?

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

hahaha... that's actually more descriptive:

"We don't care if you're social, we just want your money " network

And yeah dude those new RCs are dope (not sure if I used it right)... But the logic they are using must be the next version of Common Core... So CC2 for short! :P

As for the fight, its not my platform so I am just a very unhappy user, but have no influence over the outcome. I will certainly chime in and speak my mind going forward though, and as far as my hope for this to be a good long term platform, they've gone about as close to 0 as it can get without actually being 0. I have no faith in the management, top 20 witnesses, or frankly most long termers (not counting Asher or FTG). This is either an arrogant view of the quality of their platform or a complete disregard for the right to speak freely. Either way I'm completely turned off and my time here was "wasted" trying to help others.

I will continue to post and work with my friends, but at this point I have no faith that things will change and to hell with the people in power.

$0.00

glenalbrethsen (68) · 6 years ago

I've been pretty much saying this all along—I'm not that thrilled at all with what's been going on, and each opportunity to improve relations between 'us and them' seems to get squandered somehow. And yet, I'm still here, still plugging away, trying to do what I can for myself and by extension others and trying to stay out of the useless or senseless funk that seems to get me every so often.

I don't know what to do about new newbies. I don't know what to do about people who haven't grown that much in the six to nine months they've been here. I've spent most of my time trying to engage, upvote and post, and I've spent money that I frankly don't really have to get me to a point where I apparently can do what I need to do. Most people haven't done the latter, because they can't, choose not to, don't trust STEEM with any length of pole, don't want to get divorced, etc.

So, I could start powering down, but as lousy as a ride that hard fork was and still is, it was a major change, too. And we've yet to see the full impact of it, good or bad. My upvotes have been increasing even though the price of STEEM has more or less been sideways with a downward trend, which I actually like.

So, as much as I can say there's plenty of negative going on, there's still these glimpses, some of them bigger than that, of brilliance and sparks of hope. Does that constitute enough to keep going? Maybe, for now. Does it make me happy? No. Am I not leery of the next shoe to drop? Of course.

But it's never a zero sum game and so here I am weighing everything in my brain that would much rather use its memory and storage for writing, rather than strategy calculations. I've got nowhere else to go that's going to be any better at this stage, and given that one of the projects is from the same guy that abandoned this one, I'm not sure that's the one I'll be running to, since the same kinds of control issues seem to be popping up there now.

I think everyone is suffering from not taking this platform seriously enough, while expecting everyone else to do it. It's like abdicating one's adulthood to the infants in hopes of doing whatever the heck you want. There's blame enough to go all the way around and back quite a few times.

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

You described the way I feel almost exactly. I am not happy with the direction, nor with the way in which they "engage" us (or don't)... But at the same time, I'm still here. Sure I'm not posting as much, and I definitely don't have any faith in them, but I still manage to show up every day on do something here. I wouldn't say its because I have any "hope" anymore, but more because I have friends and people that I actually do like. If we can find ways to navigate this place that makes it worthwhile, then I will continue to do so.

I don't want to talk anyone into leaving... In fact the opposite is true. I want to talk the decision makers into encouraging us to stay. (and by us, I don't mean me but rather all of us minnows)... Unfortunately they are up on the pedestal and so out of tune with the real world that its almost comical. And sadly many of the people that they would normally listen to are telling them that everything is ok. (The King Without His Clothes comes to mind)

I do notice some of the good things that have happened and was content leaving things alone until I saw how pitiful the new person has it. An average of 1 comment a day isn't going to make this a very sticky platform. But as we've talked before, the people that reside at the top feel that Steemit is just a beta platform and the real money will be made when the crypto goes nuts over their awesome technology. I honestly don't know if this is true or just more bluster about the future. I do know that since I've been here there are tons of "coins" that seem to have passed them in price and respect, but heck maybe they just haven't got the word out to the right people yet.

Its good to chat with you Glen and glad we somewhat agree on this basic point about the new newbies. Its always great to know that you and I share a similar point of view!

$0.00

glenalbrethsen (68) · 6 years ago

As much as I want this to be a social media platform, it's an investment platform. And while I wonder why someone isn't coming up with a cutting edge social media interface, rather than clones of every other social media site, the emphasis is going to be on the underlying technology of the blockchain, and what it can do to lure in the big money. The rest of us, those without the millions or billions, we're just the useful idiots.

I've never considered myself one of those before, since I've been watching and observing how many different sides in life have them, but here I am, being one. I'm not a STEEM evangelist, or an apologist, I haven't tried to sell anyone on it, though I've tried to explain it when people ask me what I'm doing, but I can't bring myself to recommend it while it's still the wild west, still under construction flying at Mach 3 and insisting that everyone conform to a ridiculous number of social norms while learning the entire gambit of post-Einsteinian computations. The transparency is misplaced too much on the inner workings of the numbers and not enough on just what the heck they're trying to do here.

People are lured in for the money they can make playing around on a social media platform, when in reality, that's not it at all. And now, they can't even do that anyway, so maybe they'll just start flat out telling people, whoever they are, that you need to bring your check book so you can pay after you get in the door, rather than doing that in advance. It's the ultimate in game pay wall.

adarshh (54) · 6 years ago

Hi, Nice summary of the problems posed by Steemit. It had an identity of a social media platform but that is incorrect. Some may call it bogus but i would not go as far.

It is all about the money and always has been. if the lure is in making money, how can you not tell people that they need to invest. Once invested, how does it matter whether you post or not? Delegate and be done with it.

I have said many times that this is like shareholding. the more you invest the more you stand a chance of gaining some wealth. Do not dwell what you post for that has no meaning. If not for the well intention-ed efforts of some groups like Curie, it would be incredibly depressing for content creators.

A stock bourse masquerading as a social network seems the best approximation. The funny thing is that most of the early investors kept on urging people to post and that they would be rewarded. Also, they told us about the fact that it was a social network and you needed suitable skills to come good.

Gradually all pretenses were dropped and it was made clear that your money is the only thing that was important. Once that realization hit me, it has become very difficult to post articles on Steemit. I started with much hope and frankly nowadays i just watch things go by

glenalbrethsen (68) · 6 years ago

Hey, @adarshh.

Yep. There's been a lot of misleading marketing and public relations going on, but not all of it can be laid at the feet of Steemit Inc. It's too bad that people have been taking it upon themselves to hype STEEM in a way they think is best, but they've just made it worse through false expectations, if they've managed to do anything at all.

So, there's not one coherent and accurate message, and the ones that exist are basically selling snake oil.

There was a time for a short month or so where people were making nice rewards on posts on Steemit. Way before we showed up, though. But more people and changes in payout curves and other alterations have pretty much diluted that, along with STEEM prices.

So, here we are. The question becomes, what do we do going forward.

I've been in the exact same mindset as you. I've had help—my wife's hernia surgery, recovery and the subsequent hard fork and updates all made it tough to do anything. But then my brain was wondering What's the point? well before that.

It still doesn't have the solution.

I've made the investments I can. Unless STEEM gets supercheap, I won't be investing anymore. We're talking less than $0.50 USD and probably closer to $0.25 USD. Even then, I won't be able to do a whole lot, though. And in reality, I'm done with STEEM being under $1. It's time for it to soar like it can and is meant to soar. All of these other alt coins, people just need to get real.

An investment platform that allows you to blog, vlog, livestream, post from your phone and other things. Soon, there will be more to do, when SMTs hit. That should be the pitch, or something like it:

STEEM—We're bootstrapping a global digital economy. Come join us. Socialize and earn fractions of STEEM in the process. And bring a few hundred bucks with you, if you can. You're going to need them. :)

$0.00

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

All of this is very well said and I think your analysis is impressive. This is not a social platform and is an investing platform. Period.

I think they will regret this restriction on the comments to the new newbies. I think they will change it once they realize the mistake, but how many good people will leave in the process.

If you ever decide to go, please make sure you say good-bye. You and some of my other friends are the reason I show up here every day. I don't blame anyone for thinking this isn't a good use of their time, I just hope I get a chance to say good-bye if they decide to leave.

Thanks for the comments and the very well reasoned points.

filotasriza3 (66) · 6 years ago

and then if that person wait 3 days and come back here i will gain magic powers!

When i first joined i made around 20-30 comments per day plus the replies in order to gain some visibility and some audience. With the current number they only thing you get is frustration

Note that this is also bad marketing via word of mouth A new user that face these struggles by just the first day and probably gonna quit, will say the story to some of his close friends. Even worse if he even listens the name of Steemit he will start calling it a scam and get away from it fast!

doomsdaychassis (63) · 6 years ago

As an owner of at least 2 accounts, I can honestly say this approach is dumb as fuck. that is the nicest way I can put it. I hope you can do well with your second account that has 0 possibility to grow organically (ie: curation rewards or being able to interact with other people) .
Fuck straight off with this shit
-doomsdaychassis

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

I agree. What a waste of money that was... I was happy to learn how bad of a deal it is, but at the same time its revolting how greedy they are at the top and how silent the next tier is that supports them. This place is dead with no new blood. I don't know how they can't see it.

The last one out, please turn the lights off.

$0.00

lynncoyle1 (63) · 6 years ago

Wow Dave! That's more than a little disheartening, isn't it?! It was hard enough to gain momentum when you and I started, but now, I can't imagine people sticking with it at all!

So, what's the answer?

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

Yes, I was stunned to see it. 3 comments per 3 days. Give me a break, this is now a dead (for new members) network. Of course we will all still speak our minds and comment here, but the days of thinking this will be something valuable is gone (in my eyes).

The answer is simple:

Take 10% to 20% of the RCs that have been given to the whales arbitrarily and dish them to the new accounts so they can "speak". So instead of thinking they can "lease" them out, why don't they realize this money grab is going to backfire.

There is nothing wrong with the mechanics of the RC system... That is a red herring. The real issue is they have given the fat cats at the top the power to make money at the expense of the little guys.

The only good thing I can take from this is that the people that will lose the most MONEY will be those same assholes. I am sorry for the good ones like Asher and FTG, but the rest of them in power deserve every drop in steem they get in the future!

And while I'm not a farm boy, this don't play well where I come from either! :P

lynncoyle1 (63) · 6 years ago

I can always count on you to not only explain things to me, but to continually look out for the little guy, and I appreciate that so much Dave. It is a shame that this place could be so much better, and it could be done so easily, but I guess like real life, greed and power take over for many.

Yep, you don't have to be from the farm to know that something's rotten in the fields somewhere :)

https://steemit.com/steemit/@nathen007/no-new-members-please-steem-doesn-t-want-you-on-steemit-and-neither-do-the-whales

nathen007 (68) · 6 years ago (edited)

Sadly youre wasting your breath. The high rolling Steemit shillers are still selling HF20 as the future of Steem, as usual, all the ones who it doesn't affect.
Very few care a jot. My feeds are full of same old same old. Absolutely tragic.
This isnt about spam, there is still plenty of junk out there, check the 'new' feed.
Spam for me arevthe hundreds of self congratulatory, Steem based posts the dolphins and whales churn out every day. There is very little 'social' here and even less humanity, just a load of greedy early adopters creaming it in, circle jerking each other and trying to cut everyone else out of the loop. Then they invent 'new' curation schemes under the pretence of helping the little guys but simply put more reward in the dolphins pockets. I see some of them churning out article after article, day after day and all just slight variations of a theme and each pulling in a fortune (@taskmaster4450 Im looking at you)
Its total BS and fucktardery.
As I pointed out in a post 10 days ago. Whales feed on plankton. No new plankton, whales dies out.
No idea where this is going. Anyway, great post. Here is my less eloquant version from last week.

I look forward to your next post and best wishes to you.

roundbeargames (70) · 6 years ago

the absolute disconnect of steemit inc..

i wonder what the thought process is when they think limiting user activity would have them spend money.

even another 10x might not be enough since everyone's used to 'free' bandwidth in virtually every other platform.. clearly they've made zero attempts to bridge the gap.

either we're wrong, or steemit inc will look at the horrible growth after hf20 and make some changes.. we'll see 😐

simplymike (67) · 6 years ago (edited)

To be honest, I don't get your post entirely (too technical, remember), but after reading the entire comment section, at least I was able to figure out what you were all talking about.

I've been saying for months that Steemit was kiling itself, even before I knew what would happen after the HF.

It's a shame that people like me have to set up an initiative, handing out 1000Sp to give people freedom of speach. It's just a temporary patch on a wound that is a lot bigger than that. I do it with pleasure, but it's not my responsibility.

If nothing changes, this will soon be a dead zone, where only the top guys will be left. But something tells me that that's exactly what they want and have been planning the whole time. A platform for the elite, without small users getting in the way of maximizing profits.

I simply don't understand how some people can't see where this is heading...

spozone (49) · 6 years ago

All I know is I'm still a plankton. Nearly one year and a thousand post later. I'm still a plankton. What little steep I've ever had I've given away to whomever post that touched me in some way and so I'm still a plankton. I'll be here 5 yrs at the rate I'm going even though I have purchased seemed with hard earned dollars and I'll still be a plankton. There seems to be no reward here unless you buy in to bots and even there you are only buying popularity for a day or so. Steemit seems broken. Seems like it has a hole in the ship and is slowly sinking and the only concern is how to grab as many tokens as we can before it goes under and we all drown. Yes steemit is the anti-social social network.

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

Hey Steven, that is a very common complaint I've read and I definitely sympathize with you. That's why I'm doing my best to bring the issue up here, because frankly we need people that try to feel like there's a chance. If they can see hope, they will stay. If they don't, then they will have the why bother attitude.

If it makes you feel any better... I am here 10 months... I have almost 8000 followers, did use the bots early on (successfully), and had nice delegations from some very good dolphins/orcas... and yet I just recently made it out of plankton status ... I'm not complaining about it, I'm just telling you that you are not alone.

The bottom line is I like the community, I like the original concept, but I too see the water coming in as we speak! I hope we figure it out, because I want this place to succeed!

$0.00

spozone (49) · 6 years ago

I'm new to all things blockchain. At least with my endeavors in mining I can resolve that I simply needs to buy more and better equipment to receive a return on my investment. With Steemit, it doesn't seem to matter how good the content may or may not be, or how lengthy, informative, useful, nothing seems to matter other than recognition by a large fish for having paid in to a bot describing how you like fish [(cough, cough) @berniesanders]. I've ask myself so many times why I'm even here on this platform and the only answer I have is to entertain myself. I care about my postings no matter how lame they may or may not be, I'm writing them for me mostly. If you like them, fine, if not, that's fine too. I've realized a long time ago I'm not wired like most people in the world and very few get me, much less understand.
Anyways I read through like 95% of the comments here and thought I'd chime in simply stating.. Look at the last 6-9 months of Steem, it's price is in decline but so also are all other cryptos. With all the news of censorship and accounts being closed because someone spoke I'll of whoever, you'd think steemit would be flourishing. It, steemit, is to complicated, it's aggressive, aggravating, it takes forever to get an account and the thought of having to buy an account just to be able to comment is repulsive. Despite whether or not there is SP or RC delegated or loaned to a new account or not. Steemit is not user friendly, it's clichisch, and what hope people have of making some kind of reward here, however small, is soon squashed and people fade to nonexistence and go back to facebook where they can at least get a nice shot of endorphin for telling the world they like fish.

headchange (51) · 6 years ago

Well you got the joke part right. The real tragedy is there are people out there we can not even find if we did want to help them. They are invisible.
I have seen a few accounts looking for people to help.
So how can Steem Monsters ever succeed in bringing in new users if the Steem Monster new accounts are unable to function?
Will they even be able to play their cards with just a couple comments to spare?
That game is going to move really slow at this rate.
Will they need to raise the price of the starter set to include some SP in those new accounts?
I was planning to use Steem Monsters to get some people I know involved in the platform. Now I am not so sure.
Oh well still tagging along to see what happens next.

freedomno1 (55) · 6 years ago

That is not a scale able solution. It really is an embarrassment

tcpolymath (68) · 6 years ago

It's hard for me to look at the current state of Steem and think that, from a pure financial perspective, it makes any sense to continue to be highly active here. I ought to cash out my liquid holdings, delegate my SP for return, and spend my time building my USD bankroll in case Steem hits a low enough price for me to buy in with a significant witness vote. Because it's pretty clear that those are the only people who can change things for the better.

@ned seems to have the idea that people are going to buy into this system without trying it out first, which is really weird. As he points out, Steem is revolutionary. One of the things that means is it's really hard for a new user to understand what's going on here enough to spend their money without first spending a bunch of time reading and asking questions. I certainly wouldn't be here without that ability.

If someone doesn't have enough interactivity to learn what Steem is all about - and Steemit Inc. certainly hasn't indicated any new interest in documenting it for outside audience, or offering a support portal where people can ask their questions for free off-chain - giving them extra restrictions isn't going to make them buy in, it's going to make them decide it's not worth their time.

beeyou (59) · 6 years ago

I’m just here for the show on this one. I saw it yesterday but the topic on RC is too heated for me. I see you received a very unexpected guest.

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

lol... yes, a couple actually! (not including you, but that's a nice surprise too :) )

And I know you don't want to weight in, which I'm happy about. The reason is because you always seem to take the other side as me and I'm too tired to argue with you :D

practicalthought (65) · 6 years ago

The thing is, this dynamic will change over time as it would be a death blow for the coming apps to have this cost passed through to their planned user bases. As you helped me discover, this site was never meant as anything but a demo for the true customers they wish to target. So we can figure out where they will go by examining what their desired customers would want.

I think we all have an awesome opportunity here to do several things:

Profit handsomely if their endeavors are successful as our holdings multiply in value. If it even does half of what Ethereum did what a nice growth for all of us who hold.
During this demo time, we have gotten to know many great people and form communities (they are already here, and we form them with our follow lists and many of you a step further through your discord channels). Many of these connections will probably last a lifetime, the memories and gratitude for sure will last a lifetime.
For those willing to pony up a couple hundred and buy in, they can still benefit from the growth system in place through interacting and multiplying their holdings if they really connect here and form communities before this demo ends.
Even when this site dies, Busy and probably others who may focus more on transparency will keep this vision alive, and as I said the costs will come down so they can cater to their preferred client base.

Keep the faith. This impediment is only temporary, their preferred clients would demand it.

newageinv (70) · 6 years ago

Although I may be late to this great discussion which I think creates constructive thoughts on the process going forward, I come back to @steemitblog post:

Ensuring that low SP users can transact as much as possible is our #1 priority and we will continue to work with the witnesses to optimize the system to that end.

Now, because the rate of of subsidized account creation is determined by the witnesses, Steem can admit as many people into our community as we desire, as long as the witnesses agree that it is safe to do so.

Thanks to the flexibility of this system, we can continue to optimize it in ways that ensure small stakeholders can take full advantage of this revolutionary platform while limiting the risks associated with spam.

We are committed to ensuring that this is not a path we alone determine. We will continue engaging in discussions with witnesses, community members, and any reasonable voice acting in good faith for the benefit of the Steem blockchain. We encourage you all to make your views and opinions known to the witnesses, and to reinforce those views with your witness votes.

The intention is NOT to limit engagement for new users nor smaller accounts. Given the flexibility of the new system, witnesses through the feedback from the community (like this post and its comments) can look to adjust to seek balance in this new Steem “economy.” I look forward to seeing how we can use these discussions to set the tone for adjustments to get the balance to ensure adequate engagement is possible, whatever the metrics needed are which I think is still up for debate at this point based on what I have read here.

janton (71) · 6 years ago

howdy sir davemccoy! wow when I saw this post I was so excited to see someone saying what I've been telling people. I know of 6 people who have quit because they had small, new accounts and couldn't do anything and couldn't afford to fund them.

I don't know how any growth can happen with this new system.
I learned alot from the comments here! wow.

And thank you sir for your kind words about the Engagement League, the meant alot!

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

Hey @janton its great to hear from you and I'm always happy to keep in touch with you! I have spoken with someone that cares about the newbies and she said she can help them. So if you want to contact those 6 people (and any in the future), then @llfarms said she can find a way to help them with delegation so they can do things!

As a leader of Asher's League of Excellence, your words and actions carry lots of weight. So I'm sure she will help you to help others. That is the name of the game for now, each of us doing what we can to build a community and to prosper together! So don't forget and message her, she is definitely willing to help good newbies get a start here!

Its always good to see you @janton ... and if you don't stop saying "sir" to me, then I'm going to call you Sir in the future too :P ... (if you like Sir Janton then by all means keep calling me Sir) :D

Also I have a project to have some fun (and earn a little money too) and will be rolling it out within weeks. I'll be in touch with you directly so that I get your opinion and hopefully your participation! ;)

$0.00

janton (71) · 6 years ago

sir dave! lol.. yes I am very humble and normally introverted but I do like the ring of sir janton! lol. for some reason. I don't like it when people say king janton, that makes me cringe! I'm not the king of anything. lol.
Sir dave and sir janton has a royal sound to them don't they?

I don't deserve any royal treatment but I can be a royal pain in the butt!

But yes, I have helped two people stay in steemit by delegating sp to them, the others are gone unfortunately but I will contact her if I find someone else in dire need and wavering about whether to stay on or not.

I've seen her name mentioned before in helping others so I won't forget her. If this platform lasts and we all stay on and grow, then I can't wait to get much bigger so I can help more people.

Are you still bothered by the attitude of the person you were debating with in these comments? I am, and is there any sign that steemitinc. will increase rc for small accounts?

Thank you sir for getting back to me so fast!

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

Ohh wow I had a book written to explain things to you and it all vanished on me. I can't redo that... but here is the short version!

I like Sir Janton and agree that the King label is too much for normal people like both of us ;)

I think the people that are arrogant and selfish will always be that way and I feel that I got the chance to refute them so I'm happy with that.

I do believe that the list of people that were in support of the message was great and it is a reason why some of the big people showed up. They don't like the message of the post, but they can't ignore the reality that this is how many of us feel. So to me that's a great thing.

I do think that they will eventually increase the ability to comment (however that gets done), because I do think that 10 comments a day is absurd for a social platform. I have made more than that in the last 10 min.

I'm sorry I lost my book, I had written a very very long explanation of everything... But on the other hand, this shorter version gets to the point and you probably don't need any nighttime reading anyways! :D

Just keep bringing up any problems you see to @llfarms and I think she will help those small accts. Also if you find yourself not getting anywhere with any solution, please let me know and I will try any other avenues I have too.

Keep up the awesome job Sir Janton! And I'm happy to be your fellow knight :)

$0.00

janton (71) · 6 years ago

howdy again sir davemccoy! Well if steemit inc. wants growth they'll have to increase the rc's because they've stopped growth dead cold haven't they?
And it's amazing to talk to the bigger accounts that are stunned that it's not a perfect system because they aren't talking to any small accounts who are stuck. But for them, the large accounts, it's wonderful.

So there's this massive disconnect unless it's designed intentionally this way which I hope it isn't. Those people are really smart though, you'd think they'd know what this would do.

I think I'll ask every small account I know and start making a list if they need help. How would llfarms know me, do I tell her you sent me?
She might think I'm some con artist. lol.

Thanks so much for getting back with me sir Dave, it's greatly appreciated and I'm sorry you lost that book, it would have been great reading material for tonight plus I could probably steal it and make a post out of it and everyone would be amazed at my sudden brilliance! lol.

They'd think " hey isn't janton that simple redneck guy? Was he faking it all this time? " lol.

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

yes if you get ahold of @llfarms, just tell her that I asked you to contact her... She is part of @helpie and several other groups and she has specifically requested that people let her know if they are running into problems with this new RC issue. And don't worry, I don't think she will think you are a con artist! I think you are more well known around here than you think! ;)

And hahaha... yes that book was not fun to lose, but I'm not sure you would've had people think you were brilliant by taking its contents :P ... that's funny!

So I think your Sir Janton the SImple Redneck Guy moniker is safe for at least another week... lol ... Keep it up and thanks for everything you do :)

$0.00

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago (edited)

I also want everyone to remember this one too:

steemit where the rich get richer.png

I put this out when HF20 was announced and people said I was wrong (so I can now bring it back with gusto, because they were wrong and my instincts were right). I can assure you that the poor aren't getting richer, so if anyone is getting richer it only points to one greedy set of rule-making overlords!

4 votes

eaglespirit (66) · 6 years ago

yikes! the ever positive dave is gone ...

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

lol... @eaglespirit... Its sad to see some of the choices being made, but no worries about me being still positive. I am just positive on other things! ;) (like the fact that @eaglespirit is awesome!) :D

eonwarped (68) · 6 years ago

Well the rich always get richer, wherever you look. The tag line for hf20 probably was more like "the rich get slightly less richer than before", and this is pretty much self evident from not being able milk early curation. I know the point about returning to the pool still might get assigned to them in some way, but it is still greatly diluted.

$0.00

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

I actually agree that the HF20 isn't a problem in some aspects. I majorly agree that some of it is cutting edge. My main issue is with the restriction on very very small accounts being able to use the platform... ie restricting their free speech by limiting their comments.

$0.00

sames (65) · 6 years ago (edited)

You also have to remember Steem is also a crypto and Steemit inc a company... It has to help out investors. More users don't equal more $.
More use=more $. Unlike facebook,twitter which have ads which give more money for more users(and their data). The delegation pool idea have been mostly confirmed now. This would bring steem-with SMT and voted oracles- closer to other platforms might even to EOS/Eth style. Is it good? No for social but for price hell yeah...
However this why some people been pushing for ads to steemit/platform level. Ads help monetize users thus incentives bringing more people for free. Even if the money was burnt like the promoted tab-it still helping the currency gain more value by follwing supply and demand logic.
It not saying it bad-need way more than 10x....-but it not the end of the world right now...

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago (edited)

is it good for price? Honestly I haven't seen it. I am long and waiting for the big rush to come.

Why would people pay to advertise if there is a dwindling user base? That's doesn't seem like a good business plan to me.

And honestly, are those small users really costing anyone anything? I mean this was supposedly a social platform.

It isn't the end of the world, no...but for people like me it is the end of me caring about them. Until they fix it, I am now permanently part of the resistance.

TOO MANY HOURS WASTED BY ME ON TRYING TO HELP PIGS. (and to be clear, its the elitist assholes at the top that take tons of money out and make the rules that give them even more at the expense of the poor person that can't afford to pay to speak that I mean when I say "pigs".)

$0.00

sames (65) · 6 years ago

Let me go over some points:

is it good for price? Honestly I haven't seen it. I am long and waiting for the big rush to come.

In theory-yes. Many of the top coins are smart contract/token platforms. With SMT and voted oracles-this gives steem a smart platform as well. So in theory it give more(take from other coins) value to steem due to steem witness system.

Why would people pay to advertise if there is a dwindling user base? That's doesn't seem like a good business plan to me.

that a good point, but i was trying to say is ads would help encourage bring more(free) users thus reversing that trend.

And honestly, are those small users really costing anyone anything? I mean this was supposedly a social platform.

Not on the outside but it was making the system "inefficient", RC is good in theory. Not all txs in steem are equal and as such should have a cost. Bitcoin sloves this problem by making you pay for it. Steem solves this problem by making a RC system while not making you pay for it directly.

$0.00

ajayyy (65) · 6 years ago

I just don't get why the people supporting it are now changing their opinions. Before, they were talking about how HF20 is great, because now everyone can get a free account. Now, they are saying that it is fine because it makes the user buy some steem.

Why are you changing your mind now, before you wanted more people, now you only want people that buy steem, make up your mind!!

krazyuncle (45) · 6 years ago

hmm... for some time Steemit has had the scent of a Ponzi scheme to me...
Am I wrong?
(what is RC?)

mightypanda (64) · 6 years ago

Actually I am ok with people being required to invest to earn. If someone is required to invest 15$ to make an account which will actually be given in the form of SP and then the possibility of making more money from it, sounds like a fine business model to me. Steem is a PoS coin at its core, and you have to have stake to have power/influence.

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

what about investing to comment? Is that ok? Are you not allowed to talk here unless you put enough money in the meter?

And I'm not mad at you @mightypanda... I know you didn't make the rules. But this place is going to be only niche if that stays like this... They can rule out a "mass adoption" of this as a social platform.

And ps... I guess they are putting all their eggs in the steem is such a great blockchain that people will just buy the token. Because they will have declining users at an even faster pace than before. The churn was over 100% last I looked, and now they cut the faucet off of new people coming in. I hope the "investors" step up or nobody's going to be earning much if steem keeps going on its downward path.

mightypanda (64) · 6 years ago

IF they want to increase user interaction but curb scam, they will have to disintegrate the two. Let people join and comment and vote like they do on FB but thr vote will have 0 value unless they have meaningful stake. But that leaves the resources issue as is. Thr is a cost to running blockchain and if transfers and activity is free then that cost will become unmanageable.

$0.00

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

then they don't want to have a truly mass platform. This place is just a small little niche community that will never grow if that is their mindset.

Also I guess when they halve the user base another 50%, they will be coming for the rest of our money next. Of course it costs money, but you can't tell me that they couldn't cover the little guys instead of giving the RCs out to the big boys to rent.

This is such a farce its blown my mind.

meno (73) · 6 years ago

I think Dave and I mean this respectfully that you are still holding on to the idea of the success of steemit, we were told by top 20 witnesses mind you, that's not in the plans, and that more than likely steemit will die.

The RC will be administrated by dapps, they will have their pools of resources and within those dapps there would be "walls" if you will. In other words, the Partiko people might never find out about the dtubers, unless the user would log in under dtube himself.

What the dapps want to take for their resource credits, meaning, what they want to charge for them: Phone numbers, emails, subscriptions, etc. Is completely up to them.

So I guess I agree with you, this is not to make Steemit stronger, it's to make the blockchain of STEEM scalable. But I thought we knew this already.

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

Hey @meno, I always love running into you. You have my respect in all things! And yes, you are right that we've been warned that the Steemit project is a test/incubator to showcase the power of Steem. And yes, I agree this will make Steemit weaker, but I also understand they are trying to make the blockchain scale-able. I know the investors have high hopes, and of course I would be happy if they're right, but to me it seems nuts that they piss off so many people at a time.

Why on earth wouldn't they lower the threshold to make comments (and they can up the theoretical fees on other things for that matter)? Limiting engagement to something simple like commenting shows a lack of understanding of what we care about. I'm all for the growth of the value of the steem cryptocurrency, but I fail to see how letting people comment more (and post less or vote less or post less videos...etc) runs counter to the plan. After all, its the users of the platform that have put lots of time and energy into this and made it their online home... Why not respect that and let the new people join us and tackle the problem in other ways?

Having said that, I'm totally tired of this topic. When I made the post I was super shocked. I've now seen the logic (I don't agree, but I've seen it)... So I'm not as shocked, and more just unenthusiastic for their plan. I hope I'm wrong and they have major mega corporations lined up to invest in steem and take the prices to $100 for steem. I would love nothing more than for you and my other friends to make a huge hit in this venture!

Thanks for the input and as always, its good to see you and much respect to you always for what you do for everyone! :D

indigoocean (67) · 6 years ago (edited)

It actually takes 5 days for recharges. However, you had the experience of the instant account creation for a fee. I’ve been told that if you do it the old way where you wait to get the account manually vetted you start with 15 delegated SP plus the RCs equivalent to having another 3 sp. so effectively 18 sp.

I believe that gets you about 5 comments per day. Still really low, but they think people can manage with this.

It’s important to clarify this, because we do need to keep bringing our dissatisfaction to the witnesses and asking for what we want. In doing that our position is stronger if we start with the same stats they’re working off of.

My thing is that they need to increase that extra 3sp value to more like 15. Then newbies could make 1 post and 10 comments each day. Not great but as much as most people will do and not enough for spammers to profit enough to make this worth their while. Poor spammers anyway. Nothing seems to need doing about the spammers who can afford steem.

Posted using Partiko iOS

eaglespirit (66) · 6 years ago

exactly my point! i didnt see your comment before i posted mine. now that youve confirmed, imo this post is based off of a paid second acct creation.

$0.01

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

Yes it is based off a non-steemit given free acct. One that you would buy through blocktrades for instance. The ones that Steemit Inc provide do as she says and I've edited the top of this post to reflect that point.

$0.02

eaglespirit (66) · 6 years ago

hmm i had heard during hf20 that the cost was 8 steem, but varied between 2 and 8. doh ... well steeminvite is working now as some programming was done to update it and we can invite friends so they will have good bennies when walking in the door and not have low rc or manna .... not as low as when someone opens addl accts. :)
you didnt have to edit ... much love, eagle

$0.02

eaglespirit (66) · 6 years ago (edited)

isnt you creating an addl acct by payment different then someone fresh off the street? when you first opened the acct were you at 100/100? my friend just opened an acct and had more. i did not help him pay for his acct or give him dele bc i wanted to see for myself. i’ll find out more this weekend coming up.

penderis (63) · 6 years ago

Organic new accounts I think get a rc boost an account like this it is expected they will be delegated to with 15sp you will have about 36billion rc that is about 20comments 1.6 billion a basic comment still only leaves an interaction point of 1post and 2comments or so a day before you hit 80% without delegation then you are fucked.

Posted using Partiko Android

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

thanks for the assist here @penderis! :)

$0.00

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

that will be good to see for sure... and I think @penderis has it right :)

$0.00

wizardave (59) · 6 years ago

How did you setup your new account?

So, I'm guessing if dapps onboard new accounts, they will have to delegate to have them be able to do anything. Just thinking out loud...

$0.02

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

Hey @wizardave... I set it up through @steemmonsters... they have a way to do it as a way to encourage people to join and play their game. I spent $10 for their starter pack and got the steem account to play. From what Matt told me (since this post), steemmonsters will be able to work just fine with that size account. The issue will be that those people will not be able to do more than 1 comment a day on steemit. Which in my opinion is counterproductive. ie.. they get introduced to steemit and then can't do more than 1 comment a day. I think many will think that's a joke.

And yes the goal of steemit inc is to have the dApps delegate to them. But as Matt speaks about in his top comment, there is simply no way they could afford to do that for the new customers they are signing up. So the bottom line is, that dApp which is bringing new steem users, is actually counterproductive for the steemit platform overall. Its a weird twist for sure.

llfarms (68) · 6 years ago

Well I haven’t seen any engagement issues, very clear to see in the engagement leagues.. which is who I was hearing the most concern from. So, sounds like the panic was for no reason? 0 sp account can actually do stuff.. hmmm yep, seems like there is no problem there either since technically they shouldn’t be able to do anything. For anyone who is actually having issues engaging.. @markangeltrueman is doing a delegation to help accounts. But so far, seems like it’s not as big of an issue that it’s being made out to be. Odd that the panic and mis information is still being spread.. nice edit, wonder if the original readers came back to see it?

$0.00

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

You haven't seen engagement issues because you are a level 60. If that's all you care about, yourself and the current users of the system, then of course there is no problem whatsoever.

What's odd is that you would make such a snide remark about misinformation (like implying that my post is intentionally doing something wrong when in fact I am pointing out facts that people should be aware of).

When someone points out something that could be a problem for the little guy, you seem to have an attitude like "don't mention that, you might ruin it for us selfish ones". So I don't care whether anyone came back and read it or not. When I got the information I posted it. Both when I received a 1 comment a day account and when I got the explanation of why there are different levels of basic accounts.

The message that people are getting accounts and can't do anything with them is real. You can deny that problem if you like, I don't frankly care what you think. You can go on with your "everything is good for me" attitude for the rest of your life for all I care. Some people are just that way and I accept it.

$0.00

llfarms (68) · 6 years ago

I was saying I have not seen any engagement issues in smaller accounts, as was the concern.. not my own. Which is why we are running delegation opportunities. I am not seeing much of an issue at this point as in.. not many accounts are not able to do what they want. I have never done anything on this platform with the attitude everything is good for me... everything I do is to help lift good content creators and I spend hours a day doing so.. so again, the insults are not necessary. But, if you come across any accounts that are new and unable to engage the way they want.. please send them my way, I would love to help.

You can find me at @helpie, @c-squared/c-cubed, @curie, among many other initiatives that are working to help small accounts.. thats what I do and the attitude I have.

I just don’t see the point of the negativity and misinformation. Let’s support these accounts while the problem is being resolved, let’s be a part of the solution.

steemitboard (66) · 6 years ago

Congratulations @davemccoy! You have completed the following achievement on the Steem blockchain and have been rewarded with new badge(s) :

Award for the number of comments received

_{Click on the badge to view your Board of Honor.}
_{If you no longer want to receive notifications, reply to this comment with the word STOP}

Do not miss the last post from @steemitboard:

	Presentamos el Ranking de SteemitBoard
	Introducing SteemitBoard Ranking

Support SteemitBoard's project! Vote for its witness and get one more award!

$0.00

amjadsharif (70) · 6 years ago

Informative post , Excellent

$0.00

davemccoy (63) · 6 years ago

thank you :)

$0.00

dreamrafa (66) · 6 years ago

damn, i dint realized this was so severe, this is definitely harmful and will make steemit go down if is not fixed... Have to test it my self, gotta invite someone new and see...

$0.00