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RE: Steemit – We Need To Talk

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Steemit – We Need To Talk

moeknows (60) in steemit • 7 years ago

My point exactly. You haven't proven yourself to be a rational decision maker in a vacuum. You need help. Just ask any of your victims.

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7 years ago by moeknows (60)

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bitfiend (59) · 7 years ago

His idea to stop the abuse is rational. His decision to take matters into his own hands, when nobody is doing anything about it is also rational.

Or are you saying that doing nothing is rational?

Once again. sticks head in sand

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2 votes

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moeknows (60) · 7 years ago

It is irrational to damage others in order to damage an entity you haven't tried to engage with to come up with a solution to your perceived problem.

I think those who believe nobody is doing anything about it are the ones with their heads in the sand.

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bitfiend (59) · 7 years ago

Okay, so seems you know who is doing something about it.

So who is it?

Who's spending every waking hour monitoring the abusers so that they can flag their abuse 12 hours before payout?

And since you say that there are people working on it, does that mean nobody else can?

He did try to engage. He came up with a solution. It's called taking initiative. A lot of people agreed with his rule. If they didn't, there would be zero bots complying with his new guideline.

People were doing stuff about it. I do believe that. They weren't doing enough though.

If I am flagging abuse as a minnow, and my 0.07 SBD upvote at 100% charge is most certainly not enough, then the abuse is being mostly ignored like a social experiment.

And rightfully so! We have stuff coming up in the future that will really help eliminate abuse.

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sircork (64) · 7 years ago

Don't worry, the posse is formed. Give us a minute. ;) It doesn't take too long to skin a cat.

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bitfiend (59) · 7 years ago

I am certain that there are much greater forces watching everything unfold. It wont end well for those that think they're getting away with it. That's for sure. Thank you for taking the time to respond to my comment!

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1 vote

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moeknows (60) · 7 years ago

Well, @themarkymark was instituting actions such as curation teams long before grumpy started throwing his weight around. I've seen collaboration between the bots involving sharing of blacklists between themselves and steemcleaners, consulting with patrice. Recently I learned about the @abusereport bot/tool/whatever which started posting when upvotes occur on the last day. In fact, looking at that, in the case of sneaky ninja, it occured twice in the last 2 days for a total of $15.92. By contrast, grumpy's selfvotes over the last two days total more than 1106.86 (I stopped counting). To me, grumpy is a far greater abuser than the bots.

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bitfiend (59) · 7 years ago

Yeah I've been observing @abusereport bot myself. It's easy to go unnoticed for a plagiarist though to maybe vote on the 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th day at this point though.

In my opinion, the @abusereport bot is only helpful to a certain extent.

I don't disagree with you that grumpy is unjustly paying himself and abusing the rewards pool. With all the abuse already going on, it certainly doesn't help. It would be nice to know the motive behind it.

This is like turning into politics, and I hate the approach that some of these whales are taking because it greats a divided community much like politics does with their left wing and right wing bullshit.

Suggesting something positive to help clean up the platform, all while doing whatever you can to abuse it or perform the same abuse that you claim to be cleaning up. I don't much care for the upvotes he gave me either. I like them, don't get me wrong. All I'm going to do with it is power up, which ultimately helps us all, but it's whatever to me because I don't agree with how he's going about this.

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michaeldavid (65) · 7 years ago

If you were paying attention you would realize that plenty of people are in fact doing a lot about it. Those of us that are have even offered countless times for him too join us in the fight against bot abuse. Proof? Read sneaky ninjas last post.

Two things about the time limit...

First, there are simply not enough people curating good or bad posts for it to make a difference.

Second, as grumpy has hypocritically pointed out, it shouldn't be the communities job. It's the responsibility of the bot owners themselves.

Why make you guys spend countless hours combing our lists when we could simply keep an active and shared blacklist? Thus preventing the community from wasting so much time on something that is our job to clean up.

Had grumpy or anyone else bothered to talk to us, they would have found out that before he started his rampage, we had collectively started working on just that.

If you care to know that is finally very close to becoming reality. I've just picked up a list of over 25k abusive accounts from steemcleaners, added it to my blacklist and passed it to any bot owners willing to use it.

The issue here is that all our hard work goes un noticed unless we post about it. Grumpy crusade actually slowed that down because now the community is in an uproar and I'm now having to defend myself instead of work on the issue.

If you took the time to look you would notice that this point is already nearly mute because our lists of bidders has been cleaned up significantly. This is due to all the work that myself and other owners have been doing behind the scenes that we have not had time, or felt the need to post about.

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bitfiend (59) · 7 years ago

By not feeling the need to post and/or talk about the abuse, it appeared as though no one cared. I've also been given reason to believe that people that can truly help stop the abuse are not because of future updates that we might get.

You're right, why make us spend countless hours combing through bidders. I've done it. It's tedious. I'd rather do anything else.

I never agreed with his approach. I've asked him to stop the flags and talk about it too. I'm glad you guys are doing something about it.

I still think that the 3.5 day limit is not too much to ask for, but this is just my opinion. I highly doubt it matters, but it is what it is.

I've been watching themarkymark make some pretty extensive digging into blacklisting abusive users. It's not like I haven't been paying attention. I have.

I can see bidbots getting cleaned up a bit. I don't see the abuse or the arguing going away.

I also don't see grumpycat stopping his unjust flags either, so it seems like a lose/lose.

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michaeldavid (65) · 7 years ago

I actually looked at some of your comments after writing that.

I wanted to apologize for taking your one comment out of context when you had clearly made more and were clearly more understanding of the issue than that single comment made me feel at the time.

I think it will go away... for this issue lol.

Who knows what is next lol

As far as 3.5 days I still feel this it's a matter of choice. The choice of the person bidding.

I'm now paying attention to @abusereports, they are showing all votes on day 6. I've vowed to look at any votes coming from my bot on sixth day to determine if they are spamming/scamming or not.

If they are abusive ill be removing their vote, if not then ill let them be. So far there have only been 2. Both ok

We'll find resolve here I know it!

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1 vote

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bitfiend (59) · 7 years ago

Thanks I really appreciate this! I can see where you took my comment out of context. No harm done!

I've been watching the @abusereports posts myself and don't see a whole lot of activity coming from @sneaky-ninja but I have seen abusers voting early. This really helps them blend in with the crowd. If I run into these users I'll be sure to point them out to you.

All of this brings a lot of attention to the sixth day and it's not the only day that abuser takes place.

I'm sure that it'll get figured out as well, I just don't want more innocent authors getting flagged.

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michaeldavid (65) · 7 years ago

Yea, not much activity there from ninja.

It's good that someone else is noticing my point about abusers just starting earlier.

I will really appreciate you pointing out abusers that you do see using my bot. (not asking you to waste your time looking, but if you do see any I can get rid of them.) So far my blacklist is only the worst abusers, not the copy pasta for example.

I am working on helping some of the innocents that have been flagged also.

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