If you are on Steemit for even a few weeks you must know by now that there are deep grave problems plaguing our community. Problems that are not easy to solve but so so easy to see how they affect everything from who gets paid, how much to who quits Steemit and why.
We have data that shows that how centralized the whole process is. We have a trending page that day in day seems to be populated by the same people. Steemit HQ knows this so they did open the discussion. And they said they listen to the "people".
Did they really?
Let's look at this post and at the top comments. All whales-level accounts almost to one.
Now don't get me wrong, A LOT of people commented but it feels like most just got ignored. Still, I see so many great mind trying to solve this. So many went unheard. I'm not even sure I can blame @ned, after all he is only one man.
Same thing happened on the discussion with the changes coming on Monday. Again, @steemitblog can't listen to everyone. Neither can @dantheman. But one thing is sure:
We need to give all these smart, passionate unheard people ( of which I count myself in, humble ) a megaphone!
To get to the point, I propose SteemitHQ implement a Council.
The people in the council should have under 100.000SP a.ka. no whales or orcas. We need people that know how it is to be "little" not whales debating what's good for community. How can they really know?
I don't have any problem with the whales engaging in the discussion, in fact, I think it's great. @smooth made some really good points in that thread and I did learn something reading the,
The idea of the council is to give a voice to the little guys too, to have them have a say and be heard.
To make a parallel with British politics, we need a "House of Commons". Whales already have their voice heard and listened to. Why not us too? We matter. Our voice is worth something, isn't it?
Here's why I think this is actually SMART to do.
The Steemit community has so much HEART and SOUL but also so much brainpower. It's simply irrational not to use us!
I admit I am not the best at politics so my proposal is just a very very early blueprint.
I think 40 to 50 people should be in a council, maybe even less. We need enough people to actually represent the community but not as many as no consensus to be ever possible.
Everyone should be proposed by other members, to ensure that the people in the council actually work for the community and have a record to do that.
We need at least one person who has executive power to be in the council and LISTEN.
Also, we need to always have a way for new people to get in and people to get out, that's why I propose that no one can be in the council for more than 3 weeks in a row.
You need our voice, SteemitHQ. You need it because we care so much about the community and about Steemit and we are good at what we do. We are basically Steemit specialists, all of us who really engage. If Steemit were HUGE and big companies hired "Steemi social media specialists" we'll all get hired by the biggest firms out there.
You have us for free!
You have our allegiance!
We're all in this together, and we all want to make Steemit this amazing place.
Let's get to work!
I'm hoping that SteemitHQ will seriously take this in consideration and start the process of setting up this Council.
What do you think?
What would you add?
Get heard! Comment below.
I think that what is missing here is communication.
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couldn't agree more...
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"What we have here, is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach." - Sorry, couldn't help my self. That classic quote was just too fitting for the moment. :-)
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Then... you get what we had here last week! It's the way they want it, well.... they get it!
I don't like it, any more than any of you like it
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We read the site daily and try to glean as much as we can. Rocket chat is also a good way to get my attention if in need. Perhaps there can be a point person from the Steemit Council to communicate issues back to HQ regularly
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That's 100% one of the main goals of the council. I think you guys are trying hard but I don't think you do the best job at communicating with us either.
A better dialogue for a better community!
later edit: I did try to reach out to you on chat as well [ handle @ned] with not much success. Thanks for answering and if you can upvote, we might even get more visibility and more voices in. Maybe this is something that;s worth getting to more people!
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Is it possible to give all minnows a fix rate voting power, like 2$ per vote? We(minnows) are so many in the community right now and if we are given such opportunity, minnows can then make a difference.
A hundred votes from minnows could mean something then. This will avoid pleasing whales just to be on their voting list.
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Delegated Curation Guilds would help boost minnow power
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Is that the update to be implemented this Monday? Thats great!
I just dont understand how DCG works. How it will increase a minnows power? I have read your post about that but its technicality was a bit hard for me to understand. An english explanation of its core system is highly appreciated.
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Is this one of the changes from tomorrow.
How will the the whales delegate? I did write about this idea 4 weeks ago, is it something like that? https://steemit.com/steemit/@razvanelulmarin/delegating-steempower-the-best-idea-since-the-invention-of-sliced-bread
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Excellent post. Excellent idea. Well presented. We really do need a council and in combination with that some kind of "real" people to liaise with the comunity on behalf of the Steemit team as @steemship proposed.
Exactly. The Whales are like the House of Lords. Without a council of the "commons" our voices will continue to be unheard.
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Isn't there a steemit council already? They're called witnesses, and they're all elected, and they have the ability to block any changes they don't like.
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They don't represent the typical user.
Without the typical worker bee users this site will not succeed, and yet we don't get listened to hardly at all. It's no different than your typical corporation. At least someone can get 82 dollars from a post like this now. 2 months ago such a post would have made 8 cents. Progress.
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We could be like the Jedi! Lol, seriously though this is a good idea and there points you make about the static trending page are utterly valid!
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haha. thanks, man! your optimism is good though, i like it! :D
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Well, whats stopping us? The worst that could happen is that we put it together, lay a framework, elect members and there is no effect.
The important question is "In a perfect world, what would a Council accomplish or improve?"
If that can be answered and enough people want to be a part of that solution, it will happen.
I'll throw my name into the ring as a member. My name is out in the open and I stand on my reputation. I know you said others should nominate, but just know that I'll either join or support if that question can be answered.
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"In a perfect world, what would a Council accomplish or improve?"
That's a great question! I am not looking to create a government that would rule Steemit, just a way for us, smaller guys, to be heard or at least feel heard? :)
What's stopping us? not much, but we need to get heard by HQ or else is just the same old same old..
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I am down 100%. I really think we need something that at this point just refuses to be part of it.... You have a whale follow you? Awesome, you don't need me, and I will be no part of it (type approach)
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As in rebels?
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I'm just struggling with the moral implications. Do I vote for something I don't even care to read trying for curation rewards. As such my response came out hasty. I am down.... Absolutely.... Ignore last bit :)
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I love the idea!
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thanks a lot! I love it too!
Let's see if anyone else does...
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I think this is a great idea, like a house of the commons in england. You have the house of the lords (the whales), but the little guys have some valuable input as well!
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exactly!
That was my idea with the house of commons. We're not yelling " DOWN WITH WHALES!" because..let's face it, whales are smart people to and are here from the start. Their input is very important!
But we matter too :)
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Well in reality we both need each other, the question is how would these minnow/dolphin representatives be chosen?
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my idea was that we announce our intention to be in the council and if we get some people to recommend us, you can be in. I am not 100% sure on the method but i think we need "vouched" people that did stuff for the community till now.
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I like the over-all idea. I think three weeks is not enough time, but I won't nit pick the little things, I think it will be interesting to see if there is any traction for this idea.
I don't get the impression, and I hope I am wrong, that the "founders" have any idea what it is like to be a minnow. (Most of them never were) I don't even get the impression most of them care to understand the plight of a minnow, I don't think they know, investors will come here to have a "User Experience" prior to investing. I hope I am wrong.
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All they have to do to figure out is make an account and try to grow it by posting about things they like.
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brilliant suggestion!!
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True that!
I am more taken with the fact that they don't notice how the trending page is killing the soul of the new people...
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I think this a great post to repeat my point I left on @steemship's latest. :)
I'll take this point about [lopsided voting influence] to say that it essentially shows our need for [Delegated Curation Guilds (DCGs)].
The reason there are in essence only one or two of these so far (Smooth and CURIE) is this:
Whales that are not voting a lot may be doing so as a means of abstaining from rewards and giving minnows a chance to grow influence.
Whales that are voting a lot may be doing so as a means of projects like CURIE to give minnows a chance to grow influence.
Both parties are seeking the same goals of gamifying / growing the platform.
It just happens that the difference in means creates a strong cognitive dissonance between the two groups.
DCGs are potentially a solution to the cognitive dissonance by allowing both types of whales to continue doing (abstaining from voting, voting actively, or “hiring” curators) what they were doing while bringing the available voting power into the market in either a profit seeking or altruistic manner.
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Sure, but "bad whales" and a trending page that looks set in stone are great demotivators and two initiatives are not enough as of now, in my opinion.
IMHO there's not so much cognitive dissonance but communication failure..
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I am curious how it counteracts the problem also.... We've seen 100+ votes and $5. It's how we make a difference, not do we want to make a difference
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this is at 135 and 20$ :)
I see people with under 100 at 200$. Stll, for me comments are also important. A lot fo comments means something...
And yes, this is just another nail in the coffin that nobody acknowledges.
Maybe if we shout loud enough for long enough...if not, oh well, our throat get horse and problem solved too right? :)
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maybe the upcoming update will set more balance into voting power distribution..
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mainly the entire problem is created by the fact that the minnow votes are not valued. I feel the same as you actually. I sometimes get 300+ votes and a payout of like say, $76 and a shitload of comments. I am thinking to myself, "How the fuck can this be?" And I have quite a reach and a large amount of followers too. I am frustrated that my influence does not carry more weight with regards to the payout. And this is caused by the fact that the minnows are not valued, not heard and do not feel loved. This is a huge problem. If bots are ruining the chances that minnows are not feeling valued, it's time to reduce the bots or have some kind of rules regarding the bots.......we cannot place robots and people in the same category! Humans deserve more value!
I've often heard that the reason minnows' vote weight is not more is because people would abuse the system by having their bots upvote their posts.
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it's at $32.53 now
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Comments I love also.... A good discussion thread and I feel rewarded..... I just don't care for the discrepancy... In theory lol
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What do you think about giving minnows a fix rate voting power like 2$ every vote. Considering the no. of minnows like me in the community, a hundred votes could mean something and can make a difference. We wont be needing the whales votes anymore.
Isn't it amazing?
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@stellabelle Thank you for taking the time to answer! I know this is one of your concerns but for me, there isn't primarily a MONEY concern. But it becomes one when I see the trending and what crazy amount other people do. that's what fucks us up!
Is this post worth 77$? is it worth 700$? It's hard for me to say but what IS fucked is that if ned upvoted [ which I frankly don't understand why comment and not upvote unless your comment is negative ] it would have been at 200$+.
THAT'S what mindfucks.
That being said, the idea of the council wouldn't be to give people more "money per upvote" but to give them a voice. A voice is more important in the long run.
"it's time to reduce the bots or have some kind of rules regarding the bots" <-- this is also difficult to do, because once you start with rules, you\re gonna have more rules and more bans, and etc. The bots don't belong to SteemitHQ, not can they ban them. We need solutions that take in account that bots WILL exist and upvote. But I must agree that the human curation is >>> autos.
And I also agree that bots are ruining big time for everybody, maybe not for the authors who get 1000$+ every time they say "hey".
I"'ve often heard that the reason minnows' vote weight is not more is because people would abuse the system by having their bots upvote their posts." -- I invite you to read this, that's the main reason why the votes have the power they have (+ Steemt marketcap )
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How does a bad whales looks like @razvanelulmarine and what do they usually do?
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I appreciate your motives. I honestly do, but there are people screaming suggestions and would love a simple comment acknowledging they've been heard.
I absolutely hate every whale vote I have had, has never been followed with a whale comment. People want to participate.... I want to participate. It's just hard at times
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@ned and friends - there is that saying that you cannot please all of the people all of the time. No matter what you do, there will be a group of people who will complain.
The problem that I see with having councils is a select few will have a more powerful voice and growing influence.
I would instead propose having PAID moderators. Perhaps there's a way to have these people sign in under a user name which is associated to a @null account while they're on the clock, that way they can be perceived as unbiased.
Create a steem.chat channel where they would moderate as well and be the first line of defense against SPAM notices, disputes, or newbie questions. Put that link in a prominent space within the header!
Pay their active username in SBD or STEEM or a mix. Have an application process so you have a link to their body of work to review how they comment and respond to people. This gives you insight into how community-oriented they are because if you don't open the hiring pool to everyone you risk being accused of cronyism.
Once paid moderators are off the clock, they can sign into their active username and engage in the community like normal, but when they're working, they need to have guidelines and principles - a set job description.
This is something STEEMIT can do and not lay all the responsibility on the whales.
And honestly, to hire curators might be a good idea as well! It allows them to delegate while they are freed up to pursue their own creative passions.
I've previously read @stellabelle's frustration at how whales are often sought because they're not seen as people anymore - but dollar signs. That's pretty sad. So if "humanizing" whales means you're on mahogany row delegating "troops" for the greater good, then go for it. Every business that I know of has some kind of hierarchy. It sets boundaries - which is a good thing.
The bottom line is: you're going to have a steady flow of minnows so there will always be a learning curve within the platform. Have people in place who are responsible for mentoring them. I'm sure there are a few whales here that started off as minnows. Why should the burden be entirely on them? That doesn't sound fair either.
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I dunno about the solution but I loved your comment and the attitude. we need more of this!
Whales are not gods.
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I like the idea of letting the whales do what they are currently doing and bring the voting power in the market. The question is, whos going to take that voting power, how are they distributed and what are the criteria?
I know you possessed a very great mind and I also know that you and dan are doing everything for the good future of the community, but you also have to take care of us minnows who are contributing good quality contents to the platform by giving us the chance to be heard and be notice. And this goes also to every whales in the community.
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Yeah, there is this communication gap between the rich and the poor. I hope that this gap will not be seen or be experience here, where whales dont want to lessen to minnows, could it be due to knowledge and experience gap, it coulde be because minnows are poor and they are rich.. The whales are helping(voting) the same people (authors) over and over again and we minnows are the living witness to it, well sometimes they tend to vote others when they have the time.
How a good quality content can earn rewards without advertising the post to chat channels and fb groups (this does not assures good rewards either) is the big problem of the community.
We have to become somebody's favorite for us to start earning enough rewards. You have to be somebody who is famous to earn outright rewards.
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Another point: The success and value of STEEM depends on the community growing and people's interest in possessing and saving in STEEM. To accomplish this, we need to encourage new members to join and STAY. For the big piles of SP, SDB, and STEEM to be worth anything, minnows and dolphins moving up is critical.
I'm not sure if a council would appeal to all the anarchists here since it sounds an awful lot like government, but then we already have a de facto "government" in all the admins, whales, steemcleaners, and so on.
It's good that we're tossing this ball around though so long as it ends up hitting the target. Good idea to get things started. Would this council get paid in SP or STEEM for it's efforts? It would be time consuming.
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I'm already consuming too much time on steem.chat trying to do what the council could do...discuss, council!, suggest...i don't buy the anarchist's doubts. 60% of ALL rewards on here are given by a handful of people, just because you don't call it "government" doesn't mean you're not ruled!
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I think I agree with everything in your post but the council idea. :/
reasons:
To many people play the kiss ass game to the whales. they want whales to like them so they get good payouts. The whales already have a circle they stay in. Its no secret. so the whales would still be in power.
With power comes the chance to become corrupted. just look at the problem now. who's to say people wont get paid 50SBD by someone to do something when in power?
and trolls..... could you think of a worse idea then giving someone like @r4fekn more power? I cant.
everything else you said I completely agree with.
The ability to go deeper then 6 replies on a comment.
Also, remove the ability for one whale flag to kill all of your upvotes, make your post invisible and effect your rating.
thanks for the great read and something to think about.
gave upvote.
cheers! 8D
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When I skimmed over this it made me think of how having a council of sorts worked out for Reddit and Twitter. At the moment it also seems redundant in this sense because Steemit users are ultimately beholden to those with superior steem power.
Its like we already have a council and they might as well be the Illuminati.
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What do we think the implications would be on the volatility of Steem if Steemit had a "ruling" council?
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not "ruling" it has no executive power, just counseling.
What does one has to do with the other?!
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In the sense that the fewer individuals that can effect change, the greater the fear/confidence based on decisions they make. I know one of the big driving forces behind other cryptos is anonymity.
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I approve this idea! :)
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and the regulation begins..
No.
I do not support this.
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Good post. Communication is key to most good things!
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