Initially, I was surprised and a little "pissed" but now I'm super excited because I'm about to initiate a "flagging" debate. Why am I doing this?...because the "pen", my friends, is mightier than the flag (red one of course).
About a week or two ago I started experimenting with how to improve my visibility on Steemit without the use of bots. Steemit can be a sterile place for newbies, often seeing no OR little traffic for weeks or months. Presently, I do not have lots of time to create new and original content, I'm not a blogger per se, however I still need to keep visibility up and build relationships with "followers" and "following" as well, otherwise having a Steemit account is a futile existence. I also refuse to produce and recycle some of the pseudo-intellectual garbage that often surfaces and should be flagged for lack of flavor. Instead I prefer building relationships over time and have whatever conversation that emanates.
Before I get started let me share the results of my experiment:
Messages Sent - 140
Total Responses - 27
No Response - 133
Positive Response - 24 neighborly response
Remarkable Responses - 2 Used the opportunity to educate
Negative Responses - 3 Flaggers + 1 user claimed a lack of sensitivity to their content
If you haven't seen, it, let me show you what all the fuss is all about - I sent the following message to some of my followers which I abandoned mid way due to the flaggers;
I'M CELEBRATING 300 FOLLOWERS
Thank-you for YOUR awesome support!!!
Come Check Out Some of my Cool Posts:
A Cool Morning Gratitude Session
Apologies For Slow Up-Voting
FOLLOW * UPVOTE * RESTEEM * REPLY * WELOME!!
Source: Picture300
Personally, I cannot understand what the fuss is all about. Let me break it down for you...
The message was not an indiscriminate mailing of incoherent information. Primarily, It was a limited message sent to my followers (not meant in a patronising way), to thank them for being part of the milestone. I believe a personally delivered message is polite, unless we have decayed beyond that point.
I included a self-evident link for an apology for slow up-voting, simply to keep everyone informed that not up-voting was a temporary situation. Also polite I think.
Since I was sending out the message, I included a promotion of a post and of myself. This I believe is entrepreneurial. Anyone who thinks they don't self-promote or that it will go away is deluded. Believe me, personally delivering more than 100 messages on Steemit is hard work. I did it because it reminds of a nostalgic time where every fortune was born by a door-to-door salesman; and where neighbours actually spoke to each other (and not flagged them).
Ultimately, in the back of my mind I did expect some push back for my promotional style, just not as soon and as severe. So what do I think of the current situation. I think it's great. As the say in public relations there is no such thing as "good publicity" and there is no such thing as "bad publicity" - only, PUBLICITY. So, I am optimistic that I will attain my secondary objective, of good visibility.
I will not name and shame these flaggers, because by this time they would've done a pretty good job all by themselves. All I will say is that indiscriminate flagging is an extremely narrow-minded approach!
Honourable Mentions: I've mentioned that two remarkable persons took the time to understand, discuss, advise and mentor. I've decided to mention them because Steemit truly needs more people like them. I've also include the link to the blog post so that that you can see how masterfully they dealt with my "spam" to create a mutual respect. these are the two men who has inspired this post. Thank-you!
@mitthradiumn
https://steemit.com/fuckthategglookingmo/@mitthradiumn/day-4-2-or-7-day-b-and-w-phot-ejpoweoh-wejesu
@kobusu
https://steemit.com/life/@kobusu/colorchallenge-blue-friday-epic-fir-tree
I am not in favour of flagging anyone, unless the content was extremely and obscenely offensive. The fact is there are simply too many better alternatives. You could ignore the message (133 did), you could use the opportunity to educate and debate (2 did) or simply (mute or unfollow - which is what I did to the flaggers, because they are childish bad actors, and if they treat their blog as the "richest square mile on earth" and not as a rich diverse social playground, they are snobs!)
A special message to indiscriminate red flaggers:
My "pen" will harm you, much more than your red flag will harm me!
great post my friend :)
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@lautenglye - Thank-you, I appreciate your comment and support.
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no problem my friend :)
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Hello @rlt47 Glad to see your steem! I read what you wrote and i perfectly understand where you are coming from, i created my steemit 3 days after my birthday Aug 27th, and began mostly hanging out in steem chats. My account is now around 6 months old, before i left i still remember seeing quiet a few people who never earned anything now earning over 40+ a post. I earned my followers through mutual connections chatting and attempting to earn a connection with others since i am also more interested in commenting then what people want to do when they can just slap something on and make an easy post. Since my return a week ago i have noticed that there has to be atleast 40% more basically spam. Atleast in my mind when i think about steemit i want my life to somehow be involved and that for me is what i do everyday, such as gaming, there should never be a reason to have to take others things for upvotes when everyones life's are so unique. I've been trying my best to also Leave a comment everywhere i upvote since my return and i have received a reply maybe 1/3rd of the time and i do really appreciate when someone put's effort into something and i have an opportunity to read or gain knowledge or another persons perception on something. Most Channels that i have even seen many active comments (20+ on everything) are either just people with alot of steem-power or the people who have been around since the beginning or are coming from another platform, the comments that people even leave are just sometimes people asking for a vote on someone else's page and you can even see the people who just leave something for an upvote. To Truly grow i think it takes more than just time or patients it takes no soul, to give in effort without recieving, and then to enjoy your rewards with the others who gained. @rlt47 Thanks for the nice post if you read my comment hope you have an excellent day! @originalworks
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I really appreciate your support and comments. It seems Steemit is already becoming a microcosm of the world. Bots, snobs and poor.
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The @OriginalWorks bot has determined this post by @rlt47 to be original material and upvoted it!
To call @OriginalWorks, simply reply to any post with @originalworks or !originalworks in your message!
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Thank-you for your upvote!
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steemit brings out the stupid in people , its okay fam , from my point of view its only been a couple days , and i already have 4 globeheads attacking my character than the information i present on my blog posts , i dont have much of a following , nor do i even care about that. I agree fam, its childish and oppressive in nature. Isnt this the reason we got into crypto to have control over our digital footprint and to not be controlled by the 1%? Just for a little bit of shit tokens, smh. #truth
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Hi Bro, appreciate your comments. Thanks also, for the heads up.
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'atta boy
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Thank-you for the comment and support. It's worth gold!
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@mittradiumn - As this post comes to the end I its cycle, I once again thank-you for your assistance which made it all possible. I think it is rather successful and I attribute 80% to your mentoring skills.
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I hate flaggers. I have a feeling I'm going to be dragged into this Steemit political debate. Let see how the community reacts
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Yeah, I was pretty mad. I wrote this article to blow off some "steem"...but I actually got some lol! You may try and resteem if you'd like the debate to continue, as it is the last day for this post. yeah, flaggers are bullies and snobs... they should just ignor.
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I agree completely.
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Good work check My Post dear i am ur new friend
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@sarnaly - Thank-you, I appreciate you comment. I will certainly be following you and your work. Upvoted and Followed.
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Some people are just trolls and have no joy in life so try to spread misery.
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Interesting. I personally don’t like being asked for votes as I feel this platform it’s sort of a given that someone will find interest. They could have asked you not to post that type of content..... but it’s so easy to confrontational or communicative of either extreme in social networks.
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@yehitars - Thank -you for your views, it is appreciated and you mention important ones. Upvoted.
It is not my intention to SPAM or become a SPAMMER, but I have a genuine dilemma. I'm a conscientious individual who wishes to maintain contact with followers and following (not meant in a patronising manner), in a social sense. So for that reason alone, I don't think my actions are indiscriminate. Also one of the links was meant to inform them universally that my voting power was low so I was slow to upvote.
For me it was an experiment to shift momentum as my blog was stagnating. I think it was successful in that I did manage to shift momentum, visibility improved and I have more or less determined what acceptable boundaries are. I think, if I add more value and become less flashy the strategy could succeed.
I think that self-promotion should exist but within limits. You know what they say about they about companies that don't advertise...they eventually need it to sell the business. but yes you are right there are extreme blogs that exist purely on vote mongering without any content.
Finally as you say, there are better ways of dealing with the issue than straight up flagging.
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I understand this, I've been through it too, but then I've just decided to build some following base and keep following as many people I can. It will only make you know more, as there is always things to learn from other people. And those who keep flagging you, if you really can't get on with them just mute them. Ignore them, Steemit is not worth it, your life is not worth thinking about those people, just let your passion express itself on here, and people will appreciate it, whatever your post is about ! I agree it's becoming a microcosm, I've seen it, but again, this is how the world works, we can't avoid many silly things like that to happen, we always have to generate our own circle of friends, wherever we are, Steemit or in real life, so that we enjoy it the most and hopefully take the most out of it. Life is all about fun ! It's my one and only morality (Sid Vicious inspired me for that one :D)
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@looneyfool WOW! not my definition of fun, but whatever blows your hair back my friend. I'll have my own brand of fun, none-the-less. Thank-you for your contribution, it's appreciated! See you about!
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I have many definitions of fun, don't worry, it's not only about doing things linked with Sid Vicious, but I tend to enjoy quoting him everytime I mention the word "fun", especially on Steemit, it has become my emblem for fun in a way :D the way he looks for it at anytime of his life; pity we no longer have rockstars like him, nowadays they're all like full hypocrits
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draw conclusions and use your time and efforts in a more productive way ...
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Thank for your comment. It has been a thought provoking one, at many levels. However I choose to proceed from this point on this platform your advise will serve as an excellent guiding principle. Adopted!
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@Kobusu - As this post comes to the end I its cycle, I once again thank-you for your assistance which made it all possible. Without you time and understanding it would not be achieved.
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Keep doing you!
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I'm loving your comment, more and more. If simplicity is the new sophistication, your comment is the crown jewel. Just in the order that the comment was made, yours is guiding principle 2. Adopted!
I think it is important advice for anyone, always test whether Steemit or anything else your do is fulfilling your purpose or distracting from it!
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Well just imagine if everyone did this all day, every day. Everyone's wall would be filled with SO much spam, and your comment is clearly spam, you are self-promoting on their blogs without even reading it or taking the time to comment on it- not the way to go. Essentially this says, I am too busy to read your blog that you put time and effort into, but why dont you come over to my blog and see how great I am (and give me money!).
Maybe its not your intent, but thats how it comes off.
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@maneki-neko
Firstly, thank-you for your contribution. I do appreciate you contributing to this debate in such a forth-right manner and I do concede that you have a valid point if one views this in the extreme. I also concede one would have to draw the line at some point.
Essentially what this post tries to establish are the following;
What is acceptable self-promotion, after all this is probably the first thing everyone does just after breakfast and it won't go away. Imagine trying to red flag your television station because it posts an ad in the middle of a program.
After spending a few weeks trying to get noticed on Steemit, as a newbie can be quite a frustrating experience, so anyone with an ounce of life or initiative will probably try to ramp things up and test the boundaries. Bearing in mind that newbies don't have the full skill-set and insight at their disposal.
Is down-voting / flagging an acceptable sanction for a first time offence on your blog OR a second or third if you haven't rectified the matter. As mentioned in my post many better alternatives exists. One could ignore, unfollow, warn or even better educate. By all means flag serial offenders on your blog OR flag extremely offensive posts. My concern is that their is a mentality that more powerful individuals have earned the right to flag anyone else off the face of the planet - without any courtesy. I think that may be an abuse of power.
To address your view:
I have in certain of these thank-you notes, include comments related to the post, but it was primarily a thank-you note for their support. I believe that a personally delivered thank-you is polite. Just as a matter of interest, if I did add comments pertaining to the post to all the thank-you notes would it have been acceptable?
In conclusion, to allay any fears that manual "spamming" (so called) is a long-term productive solution, it is not, particularly at scale and volume unless you have a spamming bot (but that is a whole other debate). It can only ever succeed as a short-term initiative to shift momentum.
Thank-you once again for your valuable contribution.
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1 In my view- acceptable self promotion is writing good content and leaving good comments.
2 As a newbie you might try different things and if you push it too far that is what flagging is for.
3 Well in your case i think it educated you and warned you, so it had the desired effect.
I mean I can spam 180 comments an hour so its not exactly harmless. And in your case I dont think the flags hut you so much , I mean its a sight ding on your reputation , but its not taking money away from you. And, I would rather one flagged once and have a follower for life the be unfollowed, dont you agree?
There is just so much spam coming up now, some of it harmless, but in your case I would probably flag or say something about it. I can almost be sure that the flags didnt come from the ones you left a relevant comment about their post, also your comment is kind of like a billboard... I mean its one thing to say ' hey thanks blah blah' but another to totally dominate the real estate on someones page, you know? I also think linking ANY of your posts to a comment that is not directly about the subject matter is spam of the highest nature. If I want to read your posts I will, you know? The whole thing is just spammy, and not a very nice way to say thank you IMO. A similar idea would be receiving an email that says: Dear user, we want to thank you for an incredible anniversary and give you this incredible offer to give us money! Most of the time those emails go unopened. But sometimes I block them, but if i had a flag button on my email server, I would use it :)
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Let me not be too long-winded with my response.
Although, I don't fully agree that self-promotion should strictly be in the domain of "writing good content and leaving good comments", simply because I see so much of that going unrewarded. I could concede that including comments and being more subtle, could possibly work as you have suggested. For me personally, I can possibly revert to your suggestion as I've sufficiently raise my profile (hopefully).
I'm not so sure that is what flagging is for, as much as what flagging has become...
The flags really, enraged me. Two kind gentlemen who took the time to advise me caused me to write this post.
Some clarity on the 180 spams per hour. I was more working on your suggestion of personalizing responses for each post I reckon 30-40 per hour.
I agree fully, it's sad to loose a fellow steemian, but I wouldn't flinch to let go a trigger happy maniac...lol
Excuse me if I skip the (me) abuse. I still feel the pain of you using your premium lightning bolts.
I am quietly amused at the image of someone obliterating spam with a push of a button, particularly since ignoring them is pretty normal, by your own admission. I'm quite relieved that you are not the gentleman in the White House with a certain briefcase, that contains a red button...lol Tell me who is that country that spammed us today...hahahaha....obliterate them!
I've truly enjoyed this engagement... we probably won't agree on everything or on anything, but that's also OK. I've enjoyed your views as in a context it makes sense anyway...
Cheers and thanks for the chat.
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From the Steemit Faq: (condensed)
What is considered spam or abuse?
Asking for money, views, upvotes, follows, or resteems.
Leaving nearly identical or materially similar comments on multiple posts.
Comments that are unrelated to the topic of discussion.
Sending users a link to your blog or a post if it is not relevant to the conversation.
Posts or comments that include little or nothing more than an offer to trade follows or upvotes.
From the flag pop up:
Some common reasons to flag:
... Spam
Sorry I dont mean to disagree or give you a hard time, I am just trying to illustrate that getting flagged on this cause is really no big deal. But - you were breaching many ideas that cross very firmly into spam territory. I hope youre not angry with me, like I said its a small nick on your reputation, the only thing that is damaged is your ego, right? It's a bit different than nuking a country lol!
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Not angry at all, on the contrary quite enjoying the engagement around this topic.
Apologies for the delay in completing my response, my bandwidth vanishes for hours daily, which was the case again today. I hope it's not something that I'm doing to cause it. It's weird because I'm posting less. I'm going to have to look into it.
I agree with the guidelines as posted, but they remain guidelines. For example this is the supposed "rule" for down voting. In my book it's a guideline.
In the end it boils down to individual personalities. Use the guidelines OR use them for innovation. I don't think it's important that we necessarily have to agree. You have a view and I have one too. I think it's more important that we are able to remain tolerant of all steemit "species"...lol!.
So where, do I stand in all of this. As I said I will probably tone down my approach in future.
I've enjoyed your views and I have taken them into account. Hopefully, you not angry either, and we could engage further on other topics in future. I have elected to follow you as to observe some of your work, perhaps there is more to see and learn.
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Your Post Has Been Featured on @Resteemable!
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2. Erase
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Thank-you, this is appreciated!
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Hi @rlt47, I am sorry to read about your bad experience. I have been flagged by Cheetah so many times in my first month then I learned to play safe. To me the solution to this problem is to avoid it. Because until you understand who are your friends, it is better not to invite flagging into your posts by placing a link in other people's comment posts to your blog. I understand your concern about getting followers. But you don't need too many followers, what you need is friends and fans. They will support you all the way. It's not an easy task, but I believe that you can achieve this easily with your witty posts. You have the talent to attract anyone. Trust me okay... you have my full support. I am myself very phobia about being flagged by anyone... so I play safe. 😊😊😊
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Thank-you for the amazing comment, support and contributing to this important debate, it is much appreciated.
You are very correct to state we require a better quality of support. I am not sure that I necessarily need a or want a cult like following. My personal view is that I currently have too many, as cannot reasonably support them all with time and up-votes. Don't get me wrong we would all would like a multitude of up-votes by merely stroking with golden pen strokes. Part of what got me into trouble is trying to have a personal touch with all the people I am connected with. I believe in community and strong personal attention.
Finally, I do not fear peoples reactions, I don't really control that aspect of things. Unfortunately or fortunately (however you see it) we are all driven by a belief system - and that is what we remain true too, provided it is not intentionally harmful or intended to be so.
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Hi @rlt47, although your intention is clean and pure but many others are just lazy bunch who want easy shortcut to success hence the begging culture is on the rise here that has caused many policing bots being deployed to control them. I second what @kobuso said here draw your conclusion and focus your efforts on a more productive way. 😊
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I don't really have a problem the bots, I haven't run into them too often (yet, I hope never), I'm more concerned by people that indiscriminately down vote, as I've said there are just too many better alternatives.
Concerning @kobusu's comment - make no mistake, it is a seemingly simple suggestion, but for someone like me it is like doing a tango in a pit of rattlesnakes, lol. A valuable guiding principle none-the-less.
It may mean doing what he does or in fact the complete opposite. I would have to decide, whether I'm here solely for financial gain, social interaction, contribute in comments, create my own content, my leisure time, buying votes OR all of the above. Not every is meant to have the same vision or purpose. I hope you see the dilemma in that.
On the other hand actively building a strong community of supporters and friends, even before anything else seemed productive to me. I've yet to adopt an ideal method.
Finally, I'm really only experimenting at this stage, so it is still early days. There is a lot more for me to learn and options that I am possibly not aware of.
I'm thankful for these discussions as it helps clarify my own thoughts, too!
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The ideal method would depend on you. There is no one ideal method that match the thousands of steemians here. I think you should follow and focus about what and how you wanna develop yourself here. About flagging by individuals, there is nothing we can do about it. You can mute them, unfollow them and stop engaging with them. The whales flags all the time so you cannot move the mountain. It's the way the system has been in placed unless steemit inc decide to change the flagging policy otherwise.
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Thank-you. Nicely summarised.
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Dear @rlt47
Thank you for your personal attention. It is valued and appreciated.
Your time and efforts are worth their weight in precious stones.
Best regards,
alex
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@avlokh - your comment is appreciated.
I hope that you do not become too bored with my company as we have long journey ahead! Finally, part of why I am experiment with increasing individual visibility is so that people that do, what you do - can benefit. Keep up the great work and Steem upward and onward!
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Cheers!! 300 follwers!! 272% upvoted Thanks!
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@candyboy - Much appreciated! C U soon.
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@cleverbot what is spam?
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My name is Daniel. What is yours?
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I'm a pride of lions!
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No.
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nice flag bro
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@juborajmollah. Welcome. I'd like to encourage you to increase the quality of your response(s) for future posts. You have way more potential than this.
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