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prufarchy (68) · 9 years ago

I had to wind myself down from this previous conversation I was engaged in. In my case, it wasn't an abusive troll but a couple of guys wondering aloud if homosexuality is inherited from a past life as a consequence for too much sex.

By the time it was clear that not even a modicum of reason was to break through, I took the tact of just politely ending the conversation. I'm hoping we can all do this for each other when we come across conversations that challenge our patience.

For reference, this was the post. I'm not sharing to flame the guy, but just to share my first face palm moment on Steemit and how I think we can still (sometimes mistakenly) engage and are justified in disengaging.

https://steemit.com/homosexuality/@miguel12/the-cause-of-homosexuality
The "discussion" goes down in the comments

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6 votes

positive (61) · 9 years ago

Nice that you didn't insult them for not supporting your view! Upvoted. This is what the STEEM whitepaper espoused.

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prufarchy (68) · 9 years ago

I probably should not have initiated conversation in the first place, but I spent 7 years in the military having to lie about stupid things like what gender I was approved to like. Since I don't know him or the culture and environment he's from, I didn't want to attack the person, just talk to them and try to get them to see me as more than a consequence of a past life. I figure this is what Steemit is going to excel at, crossing cultural boundaries without fear of censorship

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somedude (1) · 9 years ago (edited)

What is reason? You call your belief system reason and his a mistake.

I was one of the people involved in that conversation. You think you are right just because the majority agrees with you. I asked you to please provide evidence of his beliefs being wrong and you completly turned around my question.

How is it that majority is right?

Added: If the majority had been always right you wouldn't be able to be open about your sexuality anytime in time. Do you see what I mean?

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prufarchy (68) · 9 years ago

At no point did I say I was categorically correct and he false. I tried to converse to sway him to my opinion that our lives are more than just payback for "past lives".

What you wanted was for me to provide evidence for his opinions as though his were fact and it was my job to prove them wrong. That isn't my job. He could no more prove my opinion wrong than I his, and I didn't see you ask whether he could provide proof or evidence against mine.

The next time you feel you know what I think, please come with something better than the fallacy that the majority agrees with me. I never said that and it is clearly a red herring. The conversation became intellectually weak and could no longer support my participation. In part thanks to comments like yours that are less about the discourse and mire about being combative and putting words where none existed.

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somedude (1) · 9 years ago (edited)

I "feel" I know what you think because you stated it in your post.

--------quote----

So you're calling homosexuality a defect that comes from the adulterous behavior of the parents? With all due respect, no. Just. no.

There is nothing wrong with gay, just with the people who think it's a negative thing, like you. There may be something wrong with you if you truly believe that a person becomes gay as a punishment or because their parents were sluts. That being said, there's nothing wrong with sluts either.

What is wrong is that your idea assumes that gay is incorrect somehow, without any evidence.

----- end ---------------

That "feels" like saying you were categorically correct and he false, to me.

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prufarchy (68) · 9 years ago

dude we got to the bottom of what he actually believes and it can summed up by the three points I made at the end of the post in question.

He believes Hollywood is gay, being gay is a punishment for bad sexual behavior, and rape victims are responsible for their own rape in this life because they raped someone in a past life. It took several replies to get it clear, but go ahead and cherry pick my first post. Anyone who blames rape victims for their own rape and thinks gay sex is a punishment is bound for difficult conversations

This is my final post about it here, I don't want to hijack the comments section of this thread.

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somedude (1) · 9 years ago

He wasn't offensive

He was just stating his beliefs. It was you who told him there is something wrong with him. So you need to prove that.

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somedude (1) · 9 years ago (edited)

he said it was a consequence. not that it was wrong.

And you come and post about your comment there, here, because you think/know the majority will agree with you, and look down on him

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somedude (1) · 9 years ago (edited)

He didn't say it was wrong, he said it was consequence, just like you stated

>> a couple of guys wondering aloud if homosexuality is inherited from a past life as a consequence for too much sex.

He also said later in the same way, he doesn't believe begging is wrong, but he believes beggars were greedy and rich in past lives.

Anyways, all the time we are talking about what he said or didn't, we are referring to actions. He talked about actions

On the contrary, you state that there is something wrong with him. That is why I asked you to prove it

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busser (64) · 9 years ago

Don't feed troll, that's all. He'll die quickly. There is no need to downvote him because he sees it as sign of attention to his person.
But another problem appears here - posts with porno, nasty ads and all. For these - downvote as fast as possible, otherwise this shit will be everywhere. I did it already.

$7.13

5 votes

roninwoods (53) · 9 years ago

Oh but down voting is fun! This is a good point tho.

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positive (61) · 9 years ago (edited)

""Have any ideas on how to deal with crazy, sociopathic fucktards on steemit?"

This language is abusive and shows you to be no better than the abusers.

You can't talk about treating them with "respect" when you're already casting them in a negative light, like they're wrong by default and you're right.

If you believe their behaviour is inappropriate, ask them to cease or you will press charges. Or simply ignore them. Or debate with them and show them why they're wrong with logic.

That's how problems are solved with civility.

$1.54

7 votes

rok-sivante (75) · 9 years ago (edited)

If you notice the details, it was a quoted question.
Thanks for this perspective, @positive . I see the validity of it and can agree with you on it.

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coinz (50) · 9 years ago

Tell us how your really feel. :)

I have no idea who this person is and I have no doubt he is is the degenerate you describe him to be but please practice what your preach. In your words.:

Please set a positive example. Here and elsewhere in your life.

Be respectful. Be honorable. Maintain your dignity & integrity. Be a genuinely kind, good person.

If someone steps out of line and needs a reality check, deliver it maturely with compassion and wisdom.

If we ALL commit to such conduct, this simple act will go a long ways in establishing an environment here that is warm, welcoming, safe, supportive, and empowering for all.

You were dropping f bombs about this guy calling him potentially mentally diseased and essentially called him sub-human. Not much compassion.

I get really worried when people who want to be the gate keepers of polite behavior, quality content and rules of conduct sometimes don't apply those rules to themselves.

I know you hold great power here and I have very little but won't the algorithms of voting down and ignoring them work so much better than creating algorithms of censorship? We and particular you have the power to vote everything these people down to nothingness to make their experience unsatisfying.

I truly do appreciate your opinion and did enjoy your take on the matter.

$1.54

6 votes

rok-sivante (75) · 9 years ago

thanks for this, @coinz. I agree with you on this.

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calaber24p (74) · 9 years ago

Great write up Rok. Personally I believe we shouldn't engage these type of people. In my life I have learned to live by the rules that irrational people can't be rationed with, so don't even bother.

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thecryptofiend (74) · 9 years ago

This is a big problem with the internet in general. Otherwise normal people sometimes turn into monsters behind the veil of anonymity. One solution would be to have everyone use their real names. This would deter a lot of people but could be misused without some means of confirming identity.

It could also discourage people from talking about certain subjects which they for various reasons do not feel comfortable doing without being anonymous e.g. things which they are ashamed or which they don't want family to know about.

Hard as it is the one thing that really "hurts" trolls is ignoring them. I know there is already a MUTE function - perhaps an IGNORE function like Bitcointalk may prove useful in this sense, particularly if it is apparent to the troll that they are being ignored. As the ignores pile up they might be forced to change their ways.

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warrensteem (65) · 9 years ago

Steemit Trolls are no different from any other troll. The easy way to deal with them is just pretend you don't even notice them and they will go away.

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chris-bates (59) · 9 years ago

I always hear this response, but the trolls never seem to go away. I am fairly positive it will take a public dialogue to get rid of the nonsense, as people use the Internet as an excuse to lash out and express the worst things that humanity can come up with. "Ignoring" doesn't work.

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strangerarray (63) · 9 years ago

What about a "troll-bot"?

They would never tire.

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rok-sivante (75) · 9 years ago

oh God, please no. lol :-)

Although, such much provide excellent training in how to respond...

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busser (64) · 9 years ago

Maybe firing squad of anti-troll bots? But there is danger of friendly fire

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maximkichev (57) · 9 years ago

Ignore - this is the most effective way

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pinklee (51) · 9 years ago

Just ignore those who envy and jealous. If we keep entertaining all these fellas, time will be wasted. Steem on guys!

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wisehammer (55) · 9 years ago

I already wrote something about this argument and in a couple of words, trolls are to be ignored completely even if they keep posting and posting. They will get tired of doing it eventually.

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simoneighties (53) · 9 years ago (edited)

apart from the mute button and downflagging (silencing) I don't think other measures are needed unless someone is engaging in criminal behaviour (as defined by law and not by your personal interpretation of morality) , in which case a bot could be allocated to perma-silence the offender or in extreme cases even reported to the police.
I've seen people's posts on steemit being silenced all other the place. so the downflagging is working. infact I'd say it is way too effective and being abused to silence posts which are not in any way offensive but simply some whale didn't like. silencing of posts should only be for abusive or offensive tweets, not for arbitrary censorship !

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liberosist (70) · 9 years ago

Not everyone's going to commit to such noble conduct. I mean, maybe some will, but not many are going to live up to it. But you are absolutely right, it's something we must strive for.

Meanwhile, any time you come across a troll, flag them, and them ignore them. Remember, a troll only loses if they are ignored. If you see a troll causing a lot of issues in multiple threads, make a post about it so the good steemers know who to flag and avoid.

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robi-rusmana (49) · 9 years ago

good post

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the-future (68) · 9 years ago

The short stoy : Help pleople,that's all.do it

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jjchic (40) · 9 years ago

The good and loyal will stay and Steeeeeeemmmm. The rotten ones will rotttttt away. Keep up the good work, guys!

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steemedbroccoli (51) · 9 years ago

I was wondering if the really big whales are setting themselves up to be harassed since everyone can see their account value, and have posted pictures of themselves. Seems like a recipe for disaster!

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cogliostro (49) · 9 years ago

Oh how we long for some good ole' Political Correctness!! Like it was on Facebook, that was so nice! How can we bring it here too? Damn it, we can't. But how, perhaps, could we still do it by wording it differently so we appear really pitiful and abused emotionally?

This absence of proper Political Correctness is bad for our health! Cmon Steem, it's the year 2016, do something!

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anonymint (65) · 9 years ago

I really don't know the answers.

Honesty.

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gilang-ramadhan (0) · 9 years ago

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Reveal Comment

jasonpay1 (38) · 9 years ago

So needed...thank you!

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ben99 (55) · 9 years ago

Thanks for your article , I did not read the full article but I will read it to the end , I just want to thank you first

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gabbans (48) · 9 years ago

trolls are sometimes good and sometimes bad. it is sometimes good cos, i have seen newbies appreciating other for great assistance, and sometimes bad cos, some come to the troll to talk nonsence

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yulia98 (42) · 9 years ago

A cognizable post :)

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cryptoscope (53) · 9 years ago (edited)

Trolls will never die... unfortunately

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https://steemit.com/area/@steve-mcclair/area-51-steemit-has-arrived

steve-mcclair (55) · 9 years ago

I say we abduct trolls and abusive members to send them to Area 51 to be blasted off into the galaxy.

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kryptik (63) · 9 years ago

Or we can just "probe" them.

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chris-bates (59) · 9 years ago

Everyone always responds "ignore it"...that doesn't work.

It hasn't worked in the past, and it doesn't work now. We have to stop pretending these people are harmless. They are ruining public dialogue and discourse. It's not that they shouldn't be "allowed", but to not acknowledge them as a problem does more harm than good.

"Ignoring" a problem has never worked in the history of man for "solving" a problem.

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kryptik (63) · 9 years ago

Not with that attitude.

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kryptik (63) · 9 years ago

My brother has a tendancy to drive anyone up a wall and he does so with pride. If you don't acknowledge the behavior it stops. It usually gets worse at first but then stops. These people crave attention. If the do not get it through trolling they change their behavior to accommodate their needs in a different way.

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rainchen (61) · 9 years ago

Welcome to world without laws without police without lawyers . everyone is faceless here or faceness lol how do we call someone with lots of faces , yea that right faces hahahaha :p

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condra (67) · 9 years ago

Great article. For the most part, I think the design of the Steemit system does a great job at discouraging trollish behaviour.

There's always going to be a few scumbags though, and they will figure out ways to create new accounts when they get banned.

My idea:
Perhaps there should be a daily "Sin Bin". I've read others talk about this idea before, describing it as a sort "correctional dungeon"...

If an account gets enough negative attention (relative to its positive attention) it would be muted for, say, 24 hours.

Note though I said relative to it's positive attention .. the point being that it should be perfectly acceptable to be a controversial figure that gets similar doses of positive and negative attention (think Milo Yiannopoulos or any other vocal celeb)

The sin bin would presumably also be public. Anyone could go into the sin bin and choose to mute people in there.

Something like that maybe.

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rok-sivante (75) · 9 years ago

thanks for your input. I'm a bit shocked as to why it got flagged. guess we can't see who flagged, versus used to be able to see who downvoted. too bad, as it's a valid contribution to the discussion.

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