An Upvote is a Disagreement on Rewards Just as Much as a Downvote/Flag - Why You Are Not Required to Explain Your Downvotes if You're not Required to Explain Your Upvotes

in steemit •  6 years ago 

I think most, if not all, problems with Steemit could be cured with:

  1. Better distribution.
  2. Normalizing flagging/downvotes.

Seriously, it's these two things. Everything else is micromanaging, and sometimes even entirely pointless.

I'm enjoying the price crash immensely because I'm looking to buy back in once we find the floor. And you should, too. This helps with problem #1, which is distribution.

Let me get this straight:

If you are unhappy with aspects of Steemit, now is your chance to buy influence.

But using that influence for flagging can still be pretty damn finicky. It just shouldn't be.

Downvotes are just upvotes in reverse.

Downvoting someone is you using your stake - just like upvoting is. We are not required to explain our upvotes, so why should we be required to explain our flags?

The general consensus seems to be that if you like a post, you upvote it, and if you dislike a post, you ignore it.

But why is this?

If liking a post means you upvote it, downvoting it for disliking it makes all the sense in the world. Sure, you can still ignore a post, or do whatever the fuck it is that you want to do - but my point is that we should move towards normalizing the flag.

If you flag someone, you don't owe him or her any explanation.

And yes, I've been flagged before. I've been flagged by heavy duty stakeholders with no explanation. Never once did I throw a hissy fit over it.

I was bummed for a second and moved on with my life. Realizing it's the stakeholders' right to flag me if he or she is so inclined.

Let's talk about the very basics of how this whole place even functions.

Your stake - as in your amount of STEEM power - is your claim to the reward pool. It dictates how much of the pool you control.

Whenever you upvote or downvote, you are using your own stake.

Again, imagine if we were required to always give a detailed analysis every time we upvote someone - just like we're asked to do when we give out a flag.

Virtually all upvotes and downvotes come down to the same basic thing:

Disagreement on rewards.

I upvote something because I feel that it is undervalued;
I downvote something because I feel that it is overvalued.

I take a stand with the amount of stake I own at that given moment and control the portion of the reward pool that my stake allows for me to control at that point in time.

Also, keep in mind that the money your post has earned prior to the payout happening is not your money. The payout hasn't happened yet, and until it does, the payout is always up for debate.

That's the whole damn point of this fucking place here.

It is the community consensus after the 7 day period that determines the final payout.

When you post something, you post it out there for the community to judge.

If a stakeholder or two, or even three, decide that your particular post should be earning less, they will downvote. If a stakeholder or two, or even three, decide that your particular post should be earning more, they will upvote.

That's how this works.

Now, I do think that it's unfortunate that the chain doesn't reward users for flagging in any way since I do feel that flagging is a much more important action in general than the upvote.

Also, if all this hatred for flags stems from the fact that flags can be abused, upvotes can be abused to all hell - and are, every day.

Autovotes, circle jerks, scratch my back, I'll scratch yours deals...

Do you really think the Golden Boys here got popular by producing "good" content? Their "content" was just so damn good, they got all that automated support on pure merit?

Of course not. There were deals made and cocks sucked in chats, in person, whatever.

And this led to upvote abuse.

Something that can be countered with the damn downvotes, people.

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You're right about down votes, Ive been reserving those for flagerant copy right with NO effort to make it your own, or the worst spam creators.

Also you are right about your excitement about the low price of steem, Im buying every month and I may forever more. While Id like prices to moon, for real this time, like $100 steem, im also happy to have time to accumulate.

Actually those that cry, bitch, moan about getting flagged and then write whining rant posts have provided me with countless hours of entertainment. . Maybe I’m cruel but I find it quite funny. 😀

Haha This is an okay point... If I could bottle tears!

This is awesome, and I agree. Most folks are afraid of the repercussions that come with flagging “golden boy” accounts, I’d say.

Absolutely. There are also quite a few "fanboys of the blockchain" who are all smiles with big delegations, but who would frown pretty quickly if flagged.

Correct. Downvote or criticize the wrong whale and get your account knocked down in one blow.

I meant to mention accepting flags in good grace in my rule post today.

All of what you said!

Buy some Steem, there are no more reasons to complain.

Totally agree that distribution is by far the biggest problem.

I've preached about the importance of flagging for more than a year now. This entitled attitude is nothing new though. It happens on shit shows like Facebook, too. People think that when they put something out there to the public, they should only ever receive positive feedback, and anyone with something negative to say can "just ignore the post"....

The only difference is that here, we're actually able to do something about a post we don't agree with.

Also, keep in mind that the money your post has earned prior to the payout happening is not your money. The payout hasn't happened yet, and until it does, the payout is always up for debate.

A-fucking-men...

This, again, boils down to entitlement. People think that the rewards on their post should only go up, and anyone who would dare take some of that away is just being an asshole.

I completely agree that flagging should be normalized and embraced!

#flagsarevotestoo

I disagree on two points:

  1. I wouldn't demand an explanation for either style of vote, but a comment explaining why or what was the cause of the vote is always nice. A "good run, bud!" or something at the minimum is something I always like to see. Same for a downvote, if someone is gonna flag my shit, I wanna know why. I like communication in general.

  2. I think flagging/downvoting is definitely something more to talk about than just "using their stake". A lot of people, including myself, use steemit as both an investment vehicle and social media influence/advertising vehicle. When someone downvotes me, that's money that I planned on having when I made my investment strategy being taken away. Now, yes, I totally understand that it's not technically mine yet, but that's besides the point. I don't think you should downvote my speedrun because I died on the fourth level and it's not that great, or something. If people were more liberal on flagging, it'd make everyone more hesitant to post. Now, you can probably think "Good! They should work harder and think harder before they post!", but I disagree there, too. I think constructive conversations and criticism usually, in the end, build the best outcome for everyone. I personally only think flagging should be used for spam and illegal activity, and not just a simple disagreement or dislike. At least, in our current system. If things changed, obviously my thoughts would change as well.

  3. Missed opportunity for "sixflags" in your tags, btw

When someone downvotes me, that's money that I planned on having when I made my investment strategy being taken away.

That's generally not a good strategy in terms of investments in general. Expectations typically come back to bite you when they aren't met.

If people were more liberal on flagging, it'd make everyone more hesitant to post.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing. It reduces spam and like you mentioned probably increases the level of quality of content on the platform. Which benefits everyone in that creators produce better content and consumers have content more worthy of their time.

I personally only think flagging should be used for spam and illegal activity.

A lot of people also think this and thus mediocrity thrives. Because most people don't make value judgements, they simply don't want to offend people. But value judgements are one of the greatest gifts this platform gives us.

I think that if we simply discarded the pointless reputation system which impacts visibility, flagging would come with less detrimental consequences and people would be more open to it.

You missed my more important note on the second quote there, which is that fear/anxiety over if people aren't gonna like your post "enough" for it to be worth posting wouldn't really mean more better posts, but probably less posts and less posters. You can't drive adoption when people will just bully people off of the platform, and the only reason people are here is for money, otherwise they'd go to tumblr or twitter or whatever.

If you are flagged, the worst case scenario is that you earn the exact same amount of money for your content that you would otherwise earn on some other platform. What is to fear? Not earning some arbitrary amount of money that people think they should earn?

You can't drive adoption when people will just bully people off of the platform, and the only reason people are here is for money, otherwise they'd go to tumblr or twitter or whatever.

Sure, but that doesn't mean that those people are entitled to that money. The way that people expect this whole social experiment is backwards from how it should run. There is so much focus on the content creator and their personal needs rather than the content consumer and the value their attention brings. You need good content to attract people like that. Once you have a consumer base, then creators have people to grow their communities. But for now, I don't feel that dissuading the (money or else) types isn't the worst thing.

Yeah, no one really deserves anything, to be honest. But, again, if you're not making money, what other incentive is there to use steemit instead of other blogging platforms? Most normies don't care about blockchain tech and anti-censorship stuff, but that's a decent plus-side for me on a personal level.

Upvoting because I disagree with how little you were making.

It’s all fair and unfair , more like a game . People who don’t like u will down vote and some jsut do it for fun

Just like people upvote their friends even if they post two sentences.

I, personally, would appreciate an explanation for a downvote so that I can learn what specifically about my post was disagreeable and possibly use it to make improvements in the future. Was it too verbose, or typo-infested, or hard to understand, or…? If there's something I can work on to do better in the future, it'd be good to know.

Do you demand an explanation for upvotes?

Well, I'm not demanding anything. But, sure, I would appreciate to be clued in on what in my posts might be striking a good chord with people as well.

Fucking toxic femininity. Everything is rape because my feelings.