Can I have a list of top 20 witnesses that want to bring SBD price down right now?

lukestokes (75) · 7 years ago (edited)

Wow, reading these comments is quite discouraging. Seems many don’t understand all the issues surrounding the SBD peg and the potential for a huge upside for the entire platform if it’s stable at $1 as originally designed (including bloggers who enjoy the rewards pool payouts).

Maybe I’ll do a post or a video trying to explain things a bit more. This isn’t a black and white issue where witness who want a stable peg want to also hurt anyone else. SBD may end up coming back down to $1 on their own. The potential upside in terms of Steem value (which in turn increases the rewards pool) is very real. It’s a complex issue which people should really understand before jumping to a position on it.

Edit: I just posted more complete thoughts on this: Should SBD Be a Pegged Asset? If So, When Should We Peg It?

$31.39

14 votes

vios (49) · 7 years ago

wow, I want to understand too mr stokes. Im quite confused too, coz as I see it, sbd is just like Gas and other dividend coins(obviously NEO is all I have I just dont know about qsp they said it generates dividends too). Does it damage anything in the platform if the auxilliary coin rises?As I see it, the rise of sbd also contributes on the popularity of steem that leads people to powering up which is of course good for the platform

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lukestokes (75) · 7 years ago

My longer answer can be found here: Should SBD Be a Pegged Asset? If So, When Should We Peg It?

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3 votes

vios (49) · 7 years ago

thanks, really liked the response.

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fredrikaa (70) · 7 years ago

I think you should do the post. In your other comment further below, you also mention how all the witnesses are "reading through thousands and thousands of lines of discussion takes hours, let alone contributing our own perspectives. We're reviewing papers on stable coins, debating macro-economic theories". Why not share some of this?

I would also consider listing the questions that you ask yourself, or that witnesses ask each other, where you feel unsure, rather than just trying to argue your own case. Use the #discussion tag and let people first get a feeling of transparency where they can see what is being discussed and considered, and then voice their opinion on the matter.

It's great to see how many different witnesses have commented on this post. But it would have been better if it was in a setting that invited a conversation.

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Should SBD Be a Pegged Asset? If So, When Should We Peg It?

lukestokes (75) · 7 years ago

I finally got my post up. It took many hours to upload and convert the video as I did both a video format and a text format (the video was over 21 minutes long!).

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pfunk (72) · 7 years ago (edited)

@steemitadventure I appreciate the passion you have for Steem and the time and effort you spend to make it better. I don't think this post makes it better and I'll explain why.

There's an ongoing discussion about what the network can do towards re-pegging SBD. There is a lot of potential value in having a stable pegged token which I won't get into too much here. I'll point towards the Steem white paper, starting with the Solving the Cryptocurrency Onboarding Problem section on page 29 and continuing on to the top section in the next page.

This is an ongoing discussion involving witnesses and community members. I hate to sound elitist but opinions on the subject need to be informed and come from people with experience in Steem and cryptocurrency, and the economics of the two.

In the long run, the value of STEEM, SMTs, and post rewards will have a greater upside potential if SBD is eventually re-pegged, and measures are taken to more easily keep it there. A network change to allow a re-peg would not suddenly pull the rug out. There would be plenty of lead time and probably a natural deflating closer to $1 before implementation.

Now here's why I think this post is not helpful. By implying that you'd unvote witnesses who are considering and discussing re-pegging SBD you are helping to create a chilling effect on the discourse.

Ultimately it is witnesses who would decide to run or not run a hard fork that implements a change to increase SBD supply or not. Witnesses are delegated this responsibility by stakeholders who may or may not know the ins and outs of Steem or the cryptocurrency ecosystem. You trust our experience, you trust us, to make Steem and its STEEM token more valuable. As far as I can tell, every witness discussing this has this goal in mind!

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14 votes

steemitadventure (66) · 7 years ago

Thanks for taking the time! the post was sort of leading with my wording but mostly that was to get some replies :) I do take the sentiment of the post not making it better to heart but I think with such an important topic more witnesses should be talking about it and it should be in the trending and hot section way more for visibility. It appears it is being vastly discussed but hardly talked about and i dont think that in of itself is good for steem.

I lean towards having it pegged to a dollar but I think the timing of when it is doen and how is not something to be rushed at all and to see if/when market corrects itself. On a personal side note i would vote for a witness even if I disagree with them if I thought they handled themselves well and presented a well reasoned argument. I also feel it is good to have difference of opinions in the witness pool itself.

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steemitadventure (66) · 7 years ago

Side note if you are so inclined It may be valuable for the community to upvote Lukes newest post and perhaps comment.

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reggaemuffin (66) · 7 years ago (edited)

No one can (or wants) to bring it down right now. Lead time at least one month to implement a two way conversion, probably more. Thinking the market will crash today introduces unnecessary panik into a discussion that really doesn't need it.

If you want the stance of each witness, best to ask them, many have not yet said anything :)

Edit: Seeing the comments shows exactly that panik destroying every useful discussion

To clarify:

witness not equal whale
not all is about profit or evil corporations
I think all witnesses prefer a peg if added at $1, the question is how we get there, long run or not
No one knows what will happen. Lets try to find data and arguments :)

$7.88

8 votes

steemitadventure (66) · 7 years ago

Thanks for being a very active witness and answering a lot of posts/comments about this topic and its one of the reasons I think you are a valuable witness. I think I am inline with the thoughts of most witnesses even if my blog title was a bit leading, I wanted to see what witnesses would sort of come forward and discuss it. Appreciate your measured response, that tells me a lot about you as a witness.

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businesswri (62) · 7 years ago (edited)

Same here. I don't understand, why do some witnesses want to kill the platform and make bloggers earn less? Karma will get the best of them, if this goes through

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4 votes

ew-and-patterns (70) · 7 years ago

This is exactly why most of them are not taking a clear stance on this one. They don't want to loose the votes if they admit that they want it pegged. FUD much.

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lukestokes (75) · 7 years ago

Let's not jump to conclusions. Witnesses have spent many, many hours discussing this recently (sometimes late into the early morning) in an attempt to have a full understanding of the situation. Even those who some might consider "against" a pegged SBD may actually be completely for it given the right circumstances (such as SBD self-correcting back to $1 on its own in the future as it has done in the past once speculators get bored with it). My main point is, it's a very fresh, recent discussion. Yes, it's been brought up before, but I can confidently say there are no nefarious motives among the witnesses in this case that I've been able to discern based on the discussions I've seen. They truly do want what's best for the platform, and if witnesses aren't currently openly to taking one side or the other it's because this is a very complex situation that requires a lot of education on all sides for people to fully grasp how the system currently works, how its intended to work, and how it could possibly work in the future to provide even more rewards pool post rewards for our users.

Most aren't taking a clear stance yet because it's still being discussed. Reading through thousands and thousands of lines of discussion takes hours, let alone contributing our own perspectives. We're reviewing papers on stable coins, debating macro economic theories, and more trying to position ourselves for the best opportunities for growth for everyone. No one is making any changes right now. No code has even been written for this. We're still really early in the process and working to have a helpful, educational discussion for everyone so we can all move forward with some confidence we're making good decisions.

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ew-and-patterns (70) · 7 years ago

I really do believe the witnesses want what's best for the platform.
But if you really are looking at "reviewing papers on stable coins, debating macro economic theories" I am sure you are missing the point here completely.

There is not a single comparable situation or asset or whatever to get a good advice from. This can't be solved by looking at theories or what other stable coins do.

You need to decide, if you want a stable coin at 1$, so apps can flourish and possibly bring in new users in the future (might not work like intended), but risking loosing a lot of daily users and witness votes because the payouts will drop hard. And they will drop hard. You know it and I know it. My estimation is a decline of 70%. But nobody is telling this story yet.
OR: You just look at the current growth explosion in daily users and new accounts and have enough faith in the platform that everything is good as is.

It also depends on whether the SBD pump was done on purpose by the STEEMIT core or not. Cause I am 90% sure it was intended like this to push the price of STEEM. Genius move by the way.

I understand that apps cant flourish if there is no stable currency, but other than that, I don't see a single problem with the current developments.

Another factor is that you don't and can't control prices at exchanges. What makes you believe that the "dummies" as some have called them, will not be willing to pay a premium on the price of SBD for speculation, even if it is soft pegged at the STEEMIT platform? You can't control that either.

So many unknowns, so many risks just for the sake of apps. If so, I have to conclude fu.ck apps.

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Should SBD Be a Pegged Asset? If So, When Should We Peg It?

lukestokes (75) · 7 years ago

I disagree that we can't learn from other situations to inform are thinking here. We're talking about $1.6B and $50M dollars between STEEM and SBD. That's not something anyone should consider changing without some serious study.

As to the payouts dropping hard, I'm not convinced of that. I think a conversion option from STEEM to SBD when SBD is above $1 could lead to many people buying STEEM to do the conversion which could lead to higher payouts for everyone. I have seen no evidence STEEMIT core is pumping SBD, but if you have evidence of that, I'd like to see it.

You're right in that we can't control what people do on exchanges, but we can all profit from it using a conversion, if we were to implement it and educate people properly about it. That helps everyone devoted to the STEEM ecosystem, not just speculators pumping a random coin.

For me, there's a lot more than goes into it than just apps, including the market potential for a strong pegged asset while people are losing faith in Tether. I did a post today and recorded it to video which ended up being over 21 minutes long. If you really want to dive in, here it is:

I'd love your thoughts on it.

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kryptik (63) · 7 years ago

I don’t get why lowering the price of SBD is bad?

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jasonshick (65) · 7 years ago

I like money, by lowering the price of SBD you are lowering the amount of money I can potentially earn = bad

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fknmayhem (70) · 7 years ago

I’m not sure why they want to kill what is the best possible growth acceleration asset right now.

It’s too early to care about the peg. Besides, it can only erode trust and possibly make the whole chain collapse for some months.

We are nowhere near critical mass nor is there enough SBD either.

$1.18

5 votes

drakos (70) · 7 years ago

I'm not sure I want to dignify that with an answer. Sounds like blackmail!

$0.78

raybilson (55) · 7 years ago

Important to consider. Please share the list once you get it!

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3 votes

howtostartablog (65) · 7 years ago

Hahahaha

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ygolohcysp (50) · 7 years ago

Minnows have rights too!

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apsu (65) · 7 years ago

I really enjoy the high SBD levels, but I can see that on other hand it might be harmful for Steem and will finally let a lot of people down.

However on other hand, I trust the markets to bring SBD price down as more and more SBD gets created at such a fast pace.

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jh3n (54) · 7 years ago

You take away the current price of SBD and put it back to 1usd...there goes the majority of steemians. Don't expect minnows that make cents and a few dollars to stay on this platform if the SBD is pegged.

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jasonshick (65) · 7 years ago

I would also like a copy of this list.

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howtostartablog (65) · 7 years ago

Send me a copy later haha

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netuoso (70) · 7 years ago

No decision has been made because the discussion are still taking place. This post is ridiculous to say the least.

Please don't let your personal greed encourage you to ignore an entire ecosystem of people. A high SBD is BROKEN and is causing way more SBD to flow out of the network that is sustainable.

If you purchase SBD right now and hold it, you are taking the risk of losing a large portion of that money. Therefore, everyone is essentially saying you do not care about the people that are buying SBD and when it inevitably crashes, well fuck em.

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4 votes

aggroed (78) · 7 years ago (edited)

Actually the amount of SBD printed is irrespective of the price of SBD. So, there isn't more SBD flowing out. The debt incurred is $1 per SBD not X SBD times Y Price of SBD.

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bulleth (68) · 7 years ago

^ what he said

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steemitadventure (66) · 7 years ago

It was slightly leading for a reason but I was very careful with my wording :) It was more about seeing which witnesses would answer and how while also being a catalyst for discussion when much of it has been very opaque.

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joelgonz1982 (60) · 7 years ago

I witness that they want the steemdollar down, it is because they are already insured because for every post that they do earn thousands of dollars in exchange for those that only earn pennies is the injured

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businesswri (62) · 7 years ago

Yes, the witnesses have it easy. They get paid already a good amount of money. Lowering SBD to 1 $ wouldn't hurt them, it would hurt the minnows and new comers

$2.35

joelgonz1982 (60) · 7 years ago

in everything you say you have the reason it affects the new users that enter steemit as they go to general very little income

$0.32

3 votes

lordjames (62) · 7 years ago

Anyone who could be bad enough to try such evil thing eh... well, we watch and see.

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businesswri (62) · 7 years ago

I agree. Why should a group of people control things in where something like lowering the price of SBD artificially will really change a lot of people's lives in a bad way. Me for example, I would have no choice but to power down and try to figure out how to make new income. I think lowering the SBD will really kill the platform, less people would want to blog

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smooth (70) · 7 years ago

Why should a group of people control things

Without getting into the meat of the matter here, I'd point out that the whole point of this system is for every user to vote for witnesses. The option is in the menu on the upper right where you can vote for witnesses and have your views counted. There isn't "a group of people" controlling things except to the extent we/they are voted in by all users.

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flipstar (71) · 7 years ago

what is your take on the discussion?

if you get the list I would also be interested in seeing it.

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papillon-14 (40) · 7 years ago (edited)

There's this time when the value of SBD is going down day by day and every day. This sure is a great time for people who want to purchase SBD. People who are willing to buy SBD sure should go for it. But if you hope that SBD is going to go back up. Do you really think so?

I'm actually thinking of exchanging my SBDs for Bitcoin but the price fluctuations are like killing me from inside. This is really a very big fall for SBD.

There are some people who actually think that it will go back up and that we actually need to have a lot of patience. (I too think that it will go back up) But there are some people who think that due to the large traffic on steemit, the value of one SBD is going so down and that it may go more down. This downfall sure is going to effect all of us sooner or later.

While there is one part of me asking me to trade my SBD for Btc in the today's price but deep inside I know that the price is going to get back on track soon.

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vios (49) · 7 years ago

why want sbd price to go down? Just consider SBD as something like NEO and GAS, not becoz the word dollar is in sbd doesnt mean that it should go lower. The confusing thing about sbd is just the name, taht is why people thought that sbd should remain low. Actually no, sbd is still crypto and not fiat, its not regulated like any other crypto. Just look at this, which scenario do you want it to be? SBD below a dollar or SBD above a dollar. I just dont know about you but its better if its above ofcourse.

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svamiva (60) · 7 years ago

Let's put it another way )
The evil witnesses want to introduce the reverce convertion.
If we already had reverce convertion option now, you could convert 1 Steem to 6 SBD and sell it for 36 USD, then buy 6 Steem. Repeat )

Is it such a bad thing ?)

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netuoso (70) · 7 years ago

Not really sure you understand basic economics to make such a claim.

Do you have some numbers backing this hypothesis?

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svamiva (60) · 7 years ago (edited)

Yes, what I'm talking about is exactly how the reverce conversion is supposed to work.
Right now you can convert roughly 6 SBD to 1 Steem via internal conversion ( the system assuming 1 SBD is worth 1 USD )
But you can't convert the other way around. And that's exactly the proposal discussed.
Of course it's not likely that SBD price would remain that high once people start using 'reverce convertion' this dramatically encreasing SBD supply to the market.
Hence the word 'repeat' I use rather as a joke.

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azizulhassan (65) · 7 years ago

power should go up .. why will someone want to gat it down

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erodedthoughts (66) · 7 years ago

From what I understand it only takes 9/100 bias votes to screw things up

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coriantun (40) · 7 years ago

Como puedo elegir a unos bueno testigos?

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