Steemit is not just about the money

nigelmarkdias (69) · 6 years ago

Eliminate self-voting

I'd hate to see it turn into a mass vote for vote scam.
@steevc

One way to solve the self-voting issue is to eliminate self-voting completely for both posts & comments.
Then, a monetized post is one which someone else thinks is valuable.

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4 votes

steevc (73) · 6 years ago

You can still abuse the system using accounts working together. I think it's best to minimise the rules.

nigelmarkdias (69) · 6 years ago

I think it's best to minimise the rules.
@steevc

We're assuming consistently benign whales.

Stake weighted voting.

On chain rules can minimize the impact of de facto off chain rules made by those with higher stakes.

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4 votes

steevc (73) · 6 years ago

The whales have to consider what effect their actions may have. If they don't make Steem an attractive place for newbies it will wither. We need many millions here to achieve its potential.

nigelmarkdias (69) · 6 years ago (edited)

The whales have to consider what effect their actions may have.
@steemvc

For the Steemit social network does BNI have a lesson, especially for whales?
Hunter or farmer

If they don't make Steem an attractive place for newbies it will wither. We need many millions here to achieve its potential.
@steevc

If we build, will he come?
Will they come?
If we don't work Steemit or build Steemit with a builder's mindset, there is no hope that anyone will come.

Image source

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badcontent (65) · 6 years ago

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badcontent (65) · 6 years ago

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nigelmarkdias (69) · 6 years ago

All my comments on your post have been flagged for spam.
Are they spam, @steevc?

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steevc (73) · 6 years ago (edited)

Not by me. I've not looked into what you have done. Did you upset someone? I wouldn't consider these comments to be spam

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nigelmarkdias (69) · 6 years ago

Not by me.
@steevc

Grateful that you read my comments. @steevc
Thank you.

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badcontent (65) · 6 years ago

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steemseph (65) · 6 years ago

First, I’ll just add this little GIF here. It speaks volumes.

That’s just vote farming. They didn’t even take the time to plagiarize images like most do. This abuser thought they were slick by commenting over 90 times in a post that was about 16 days old. Fyuck.

IMO:
I believe some think we are entitled to be here in Steem. This a place for an investment opportunity if one is willing to make the proper effort. No person is entitled to the privileges associated with participating on the Steem community/social media platform.
Goes the same in most aspects of life, doesn’t it?

Much of life consists of people believing they are entitled to things. This social media platform is also one of those places where people believe they are entitled to something. The difference is that here on this social media platform we can all prove that we are not entitled to the rewards. I look at like an investment club where one must earn their place and the potential profits.
Steem is just another place where humans are not entitled to financial gain. It’s just another place where one must earn their financial compensation. I’m repeating myself now.
Finding ways to abuse this scenario threatens the authenticity of all. Therefore it is our responsibility to curate this environment.

Just because an asshole finds something that can be abused doesn’t mean they have the right to abuse it, especially after it’s generally considered abuse by the common user. All is fair in love and war, sure, but this ain’t that.

If users come to steam thinking it’s a free ride or that they deserve the rewards available here, they have an unrealistic expectation.

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11 votes

nigelmarkdias (69) · 6 years ago

That's an excellent image. @steemseph
With attribution to you, may I use your gif in a blog post, by me?

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steemseph (65) · 6 years ago

I’m glad you like it. Thanks for asking to use my GIF. My first reaction is to decline.

If I were to give you permission, how would you be using the gif?

@nigelmarkdias why are you on @badcontent’s list?

You are also voting on your own comments for about 0.27 at the last minute. Those are unfavorable characteristics and indicators of abusive practices.

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nigelmarkdias (69) · 6 years ago

Thank you for your response, @steemseph
Of course, I will not use your GIF.

how would you be using the gif?

I did not have any specific use in mind. It is an excellent GIF, that might have come in handy.

Those are unfavorable characteristics and indicators of abusive practices.

That's a conversation for another day.

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anthonyadavisii (70) · 6 years ago

I remember this fellow. Used to be on the @christian-trail voting list IIRC. Shameful behavior for a professor of Christ if you asked me.

nigelmarkdias (69) · 6 years ago (edited)

Shameful behavior for a professor of Christ if you asked me.
@anthonyadavisii

Yes, it is, sir.

 Ad Hominem?
 Hasty Generalization?

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paparex (37) · 6 years ago

It's neither ad hominem nor hasty generalization if it's true, though.

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nigelmarkdias (69) · 6 years ago (edited)

if it's true, though.

Ah! @paparex
If
What is truth? 😊

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steemseph (65) · 6 years ago

Good to know. Thanks for your input.

steevc (73) · 6 years ago

I think it should be up to others what you make. Of course anyone can abuse this, but they should accept if others think they need flagging

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slobberchops (74) · 6 years ago

@atlantica got a little angry and went over the top. It would be nice if he/she would remove all those flags, it was hardly just?

Something could be made of this as he mentioned about educating in one of the comments. @atlantica is a half-dolphin and must have invested some real cash into STEEM looking at the age of the account.

If this person started using it properly, and not abusing it then the rewards would be more than $0.12 a post like they currently are.

There's a lot more than money here. That feeling good factor beats it any day.

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5 votes

steevc (73) · 6 years ago

I obviously stirred up some anger and it's very hard to judge how people will react. He/she got more reasonable as time went on. Maybe they will reconsider their strategy. We shall see.

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donnadavisart (66) · 6 years ago

You know, I've never flagged anyone. I think I only ever got a few weird spam comments on my posts and when I did I just said, politely, don't do that here people will get mad and often they apolgized and even thanked me and never came back.

I'm so small here, though, I mean I don't even know if I'm a minnow yet, so it probably isn't as apparent to me. I'm also so OLD school that I dont autovote or antyhing I just self vote and curate. That's mainly because I love steemit in the sense that it feels like the 'old internet' like early 2000s with blogger and such. I like to read what people are doing or look at their cool art and leave a comment and vote and move on. I realize that is sort of dumb maybe, as I do miss people sometimes for a few days as they might get lost in the shuffle. Yet, each morning I look forward to going through my list of people I like to read and finding new people thorugh them usually through the comments. I'm not sure people really realize the power of the comment section, but I digress.

I guess I'm just of the opinion that wherever human beings gather there will be black and cheek and pick pockets and scoundrals. I just try to ignore them because sometimes it seems whenever people have decided to pay attention to them and to make a place 'safe from them' the people who are not doing bad get ignored or put upon. They say the road to Hell is paved with good intentions.

Now, I am not saying what you are doing is bad, in fact I commend you for it. I am probably far too selfish to even go to the effort to route out the baddies, I just ignore them and move on. That is probably not the best attitude.

I suppose I might be reaping the benefits of others efforts to control them, but again I use this platform in such an odd way that I never really go to the latest or trending feeds. I keep a list of those I've come to like and when I find people through them I book mark them and that's my old school way, which is maybe why I don't see all the bad stuff.

I also write far too long comments, so there you go, I've said nothing and done it with far too many words :) But, you do what you think is good for steemit as it is truly noble that you do do it for the good of the platform. I'm not sure, though, that we won't always have such things. Mostly because I can't think of anything anywhere that has ever been a place without that type of person/spammer/griefer/troll/baddie/parasite et al. But, that is not to say there won't ever be such a place and it's good of people like you to work towards it. Sorry about this long comment :/

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nigelmarkdias (69) · 6 years ago

@andrachy

Managing expectations

Could you kindly make a Steemit explainer video for newbies, that they can view on sign up:

Do's & don'ts
How Steemit works
Steemit culture

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steevc (73) · 6 years ago

It is a problem that minnows feel so powerless. Those of us with a little more power can help them build up their accounts. You are doing good things here and I hope others support you too.

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hockney (62) · 6 years ago

I'm still cheerfully baffled by all the ways points can be scored, and imaginary money earned :)
No doubt it will make sense eventually, and in the meantime I'll upvote with no power and do all the dumb newbie things I possibly can.
There will always be the cynics and the angry people on any platform. Stack Overflow has even managed to reach a stage of partisanship and bitchiness, just when someone asks a question badly. Success breeds contempt. Maybe you should measure your success by how much static you get back? Judo the negativity into a positive attribute!

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steevc (73) · 6 years ago

Generally I get good responses here and the 'imaginary money' can be translated into something you can spend on real stuff, e.g. my trip to Steemfest in Poland next month.

Of course people will game the system if they can. We can try to curb that.

BTW Check your wallet as you should have rewards to claim.

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hockney (62) · 6 years ago

Checked and claimed. The thing says I have real as well as imaginary money. When I convert some into whisky I'll truly believe! :)

steevc (73) · 6 years ago

I've paid for a guitar and trips to Steemfest with what I've made. There's various ways to do that, but I use a Wirex debit card that I can charge up with cryptocurrency.

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empress-eremmy (65) · 6 years ago

Well said. The @atlantica person flagged me yesterday and it was a big surprising for me. If the platform was simply allowed to degenerate into meaningless posts for the sake of making a few cents or bucks then it will surely fail.

Hey @atlantica, if you seriously feel you're being treated unjustly why not tell your own side of things rather than pick a fight with everyone?

You would actually make More if you simply put in more effort and actually cared about the platform.

Well I have never flagged anyway but I wish everyone thought about the possible repercussions every now and then

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steevc (73) · 6 years ago

He tried to intimidate me by attacking those who support me. I won't give in to such threats. I hope you don't suffer this again

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katharsisdrill (71) · 6 years ago (edited)

I reshared this - good writing about a very important topic. Content should indeed be in focus. As I see it it is the only thing that will really promote the platform. I have tried other places like this and was turned off by the content or bored by the lack of interaction. Steemit do indeed have both good and bad, but there is many really good bloggers here that some of the other places lacked. Akasha might have some good bloggers too when (or if ) it gets a working technology.

steevc (73) · 6 years ago

I think we have to work on showing what good can be done here. Part of the flagging is the educate new users. I would be less inclined to do it for a brand new user. It's more about the persistent offenders.

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katharsisdrill (71) · 6 years ago

Yes, I agree that such measures is necessary. I seldom do it myself these days, but with all the work I have to put into the comics I often have a limited time for the wider interaction on Steemit.

adventurebuilder (53) · 6 years ago

This was a very helpful post. I learned some things about voting and how the system works. Thank you for taking the time to write it!

steevc (73) · 6 years ago

Thanks for reading and taking the time to comment. It's good to know it was useful to you.

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adventurebuilder (53) · 6 years ago (edited)

of course! I'm still trying to figure out how stuff works around here. :)

bozz (70) · 6 years ago

It is pretty uncommon that I upvote myself. Mostly because I forget to. There were times that I have been part of a curation trail and I was self upvoting by default. I think I do a pretty good job of spreading my votes around that if I wanted to self upvote every now and then I would be okay. I think eventually when I am bigger I will delegate some SP to Steemflagrewards to help them with their mission.

steevc (73) · 6 years ago

The odd self-vote is okay, but not if it's junk posts and nobody else is supporting you. That's just greed. We have to judge each case.

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bozz (70) · 6 years ago

That makes sense!

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markangeltrueman (67) · 6 years ago

Can't agree more. As always, the problem seems to be with the interpretation of flags. People feel entitled to the reward that they have received prior to payout. They need to remember that it is always "potential payout". I did consider some kind of flag anonymisation service, but that then removes the flagging power from the reward pool and make it require some kind of liquid donation to a third party service. If you can remove the fear of flagging, maybe it will become seen as a normal part of the reward generation process.

steevc (73) · 6 years ago

You can delegate to one of the accounts that does flag. If enough people do that then it's harder to retaliate.

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markangeltrueman (67) · 6 years ago

Can they determine how you want your flag to be placed though? I dont want to delegate to something that generically flags stuff that i might not thing worthy of a flag. I'd want to specifically flag a post through what effectively amounts to a proxy for that flagging. Also, i guess the flagging power of these services would drop pretty quickly, especially if they start hitting some of the bigger investors with their flags.

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steevc (73) · 6 years ago

You have to trust them on how they use it, but you can track that via steemd. You can just as easily withdraw your delegation if you disagree.

I did this with some that flagged a certain Mr H who has been abusing the system for ages. I did flag him directly and got some retaliation.

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toofasteddie (70) · 6 years ago

Hopefully whales would do the amazing work you are doing man...
Your posts are always a must-read for me, I can only learn from them.
Thanks mate

steevc (73) · 6 years ago

Cheers. I'm no super expert, but we can all have opinions.

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toofasteddie (70) · 6 years ago

Don’t underestimate yourself... you are sufficiently expert to guide and lead newcomers.
Steem on

Posted using Partiko iOS

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akdx (66) · 6 years ago

Steemit is a platform where one can earn while learning something and interacting with lots of people all around the world. But, unfortunately this platform has become a means of satisfying greed.
I have competed six months here and has also invested some money to power up my account but I never upvote my own posts or comments. I always try hard to write quality posts. However, I could not get enough reward for my hardwork.
I never have flagged anyone's post, except in one occasion. But In some occasions my comments were flagged by some people because they were not agree with me! Everyone has a right to express his/her views. Should flagging be allowed in such cases where one is not agree with others? Is this not the abusive behavior? It is necessary to flag a plagiarized content or a spamming message but flagging should not be allowed to shut someone's voice.

steevc (73) · 6 years ago

I don't think we should limit what flags people can use. It is a totally personal choice and I'm afraid you may see some against you. We had some accounts flagging a lot a while back, but they had hardly any SP. People still got upset about it. Flagging has the same cost as voting, but you don't get rewarded for it.

Success here takes effort. I made very little in my early months, but I've built up good connections now.

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whitelightxpress (66) · 6 years ago

Your post reminds me of how venues like Steemit are often little more than proxies for the broader state of humanity.

There are always going to be givers and takers. People who use a system legitimately, and people who exploit it. People who are the "stewards" of the system (such as yourself) and people who are "destroyers." And — just like life — there will be many of us who care but are too small to make much difference... except by our willingness to set a good example.

Blessings!

steevc (73) · 6 years ago

We are building a new society here. It's fairly anarchic, like the wild west I keep comparing it to.

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pouchon (70) · 6 years ago

Glad you post this today.
We dictate how we want #steem should be treating.
So much ideas can be generated from our posts.
No essence in a post is a clear indication the steemian is all about a few vote.
Support part pays all the way.
I should say pay it forward
Keep on postin'

prakashghai (63) · 6 years ago

its better to stay away from flagging fights on steemit.

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steevc (73) · 6 years ago

I'm not looking for fights, but someone has to flag the bad stuff. I know of people who had their accounts trashed because they dared to flag. I salute them!

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prakashghai (63) · 6 years ago

Id still stay in the good vibe zone.

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bien (70) · 6 years ago (edited)

Flag is good if the user's is really doing plagiarism,but if you flag for personal reason it is not good for the community,if ever you flag someone better choose the real people who are doing plagiarism..

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steevc (73) · 6 years ago (edited)

I don't generally flag just because I disagree with someone, but we are free to do what we want. I've seen Ned flag comments he doesn't like to see.

BTW I think you mean plagiarism, unless flagiarism is a new word I don't know about.

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sircork (64) · 6 years ago (edited)

I've seen Ned do that too ;) :)

Also, hereby submitting I love the word Flagiarism - just need a good applicable definition for it.

How about the act of piling on "wrongful" (yes yes, there is no such thing) flagging to try and impress a first-level whale flagger. I see that when Ned flags (me) on personal ego reasons and plankton or minnows join in on things that don't concern them at all, presumably to impress Ned? :D

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bien (70) · 6 years ago

oh yes..sorry about my miss spell..

Even me my last flag i think 10 months ago..i just read some people pissing off others post and it disappointed me..so i flag his comment..

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thedamus (72) · 6 years ago

Leading by example! Keep up the good work @steevc and come on by #steemsilvergold if you wanna’ see some good shiny content.
Cheers! from @thedamus

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yehey (63) · 6 years ago

Upvoted.

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steevc (73) · 6 years ago

This is the sort of low quality comment I don't want. Thanks for the vote, but you are not likely to get one back doing this.

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iamstan (62) · 6 years ago

That guy is a constant spammer and a abuser. https://steemit.com/@yehey/comments Some one you can turn into @steemcleaners or flag for comment spam! How is it possible that a person that wants to be a witness sets this kind of example?
This has to be the biggest example of spam from someone who should know better I have ever seen!
I will add him to our #flags needed channel.

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5 votes

katharsisdrill (71) · 6 years ago

He!

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yehey (63) · 6 years ago

I replied to your post from my blog.

Thanks for the feedback.

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movievigilante (51) · 6 years ago (edited)

void

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movievigilante (51) · 6 years ago

I've never understood why some users feel they need to announce when they have upvoted someone's post. What is the purpose of that?

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