How much SP in tied up in Bid Bots?

penguinpablo (75) · 6 years ago

Thanks for posting this. Interesting stats :-)

I think it is an even lower percentage.

The total vesting fund currently contains 192,505,758.709 STEEM
The total STEEM supply is 270,643,578.007 STEEM

21,240,294 / 192,505,758 = 11.0%
21,240,294 / 270,643,578 = 7.85%

So it is 11% of all vested STEEM (powered up) and almost 8% of the total Steem supply.

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10 votes

crypto-econom1st (57) · 6 years ago

But shouldn't we look at the SP being actively used for upvoting? Let's assume the whole 169mln is not being used to upvote, then the bots control 100% of the upvotes.

Is the full 169mln used for upvoting?
Including the 48mln from Steemit?

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8 votes

tytran (54) · 6 years ago

Oh wow youre very correct here, we are totally forgetting how many SP Whales don't even use their upvote... many of them actually dont even use nearly a fraction of their vote power.... Just like witness votes which are basically only being voted on by a minority of steempower stake holders and its very interesting how many large stale holders dont vote for witness and how many of them don't even care to earn off their SP, many are just wealthy BTC whales with much more BTC than STeem, they all collectively buy more steem during the bull runs, theyre the ones buying up more stake with their extra bitcoin. SO anyway I do see this as an important point, many users who actually have a large stake don't even use their SP to earn off of it!

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https://steemdb.com/labs/rshares?date=2018-06-20

teamsteem (74) · 6 years ago

The answer to your question is above 20% according to some pretty good estimation.

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https://steemit.com/steemit/@crypto-econom1st/re-themarkymark-how-much-sp-in-tied-up-in-bid-bots-20180628t211333908z

crypto-econom1st (57) · 6 years ago

Thanks!

I counted the top50 and that's about 22.5%. That's close to the 26% I calculated based on different analysis. The 3.5% difference is explained by all the small bots outside the top50 and of course timing/daily differences.

Btw, guess who I saw on spot 50 😀

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eonwarped (68) · 6 years ago

Sigh. this the only relevant number. It's pretty dishonest to be peddling anything else. And yeah. TOO DAMN MUCH. (then again I think anything more than 0% is too much LOL)

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

You are right, I forgot to include the bots in the total SP calculation bringing my number to 11.111%. Of course, it is slightly higher as not all bots are listed (but they have nothing in comparison for SP) and some vote bots sell votes directly from end users and not via delegation, but still should be a small % change, maybe 1% more?

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fitinfun (71) · 6 years ago

This is an amazingly low number considering the power they have to get people on trending. I am fighting to survive here and many people who used to give me good upvotes now are silent, powering down, or have delegated their sp elsewhere - maybe to bots.

I recently found out @ned does not vote at all now. This led to another person saying many big accounts do not vote.

I use the little bots only when they are running good in an attempt to raise payouts and reward my real voters. I have hidden about half the bots on steembottracker since they never pay well and I'm not trying to lose money on them. Lately those little bots I use are almost never paying well as people slam huge bids on them.

I upvote comments and used to get many good ones on my posts. This too is fading fast.

I feel really hopeless, but I am trying hard to continue.

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oculussensori (40) · 6 years ago

@fitinfun, i understand your frustration, i know where you're coming from. Although i must say, you are a bit selfish as well. Bear in mind that you have 200 SP and extra 1000++ you received as delegation. Other don't even have 10% of what you have. How are they surviving with far less? Maybe we appreciate more what we have and from the little we have, to share with others rather than feeling pitty and think of one person only.

We all feel hopeless many times of the day, and many of us are indeed less fortunate than others that say and feel are hopeless. But that's how things are, and the only way to move through is keep on going, and making some good content as much possible we can.

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fitinfun (71) · 6 years ago (edited)

I leased that delegated sp - no one gave it to me. I'm due to be homeless in a few days, so that should make you feel better.

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oculussensori (40) · 6 years ago

I am really, really sorry to hear that @fitnfun, it must be difficult to have to mentally and physically go through that.. Such news don't make me feel better whether i know the person or not; but may i ask how did you come to be in this situation? If you can not or don't want to talk, i'll understand. Wish you luck @fitnfun .

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fitinfun (71) · 6 years ago

Many things about my work have fallen apart in the last six weeks or so and I have dropped a lot of balls. I am ulogging about my situation if you want to look at more details. I'm putting all the information on them. Thank you for you support.

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oculussensori (40) · 6 years ago

Happy Anniversary! What do i have to do to upvote you as witness @themarkymark ?

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

You can find it in the menu on the right, where you can vote for any witness (up to 30 total).

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prameshtyagi (71) · 6 years ago

I always appreciate how you approach yo present right numbers

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cryptoskul (38) · 6 years ago

Thanks @penguinpablo for the Stats ....so its 11% controlled by bots,fair percentage!

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

Please watch

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hiroyamagishi (68) · 6 years ago (edited)

Thanks for this data. I also regularly check the blog posting of @penguinpablo to see some of the important data. Also, talking about it having a mention on some of my talking on the video. There are 70 million Steem that are in exchanger and the remaining 20 million Steem are on delegation on bidbots. Everyday I learn 😂

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

Yeah, this post makes me cry also... what does it mean? Bots are killing steem, thats a fact... What does it mean, a Bot owner writes a post like this one. .. Lets go deep between 1 and 5 cents for steem...

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cliffpower (65) · 6 years ago (edited)

Thats excellent, great to know. Steem is a great blockchain and steemit is a very creative platform that needs to be protected. Thats why I voted for @themarkymark for one of my witness votes.
And for this reason...........
Upvote gif meme.gif

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8 votes

mejustandrew (58) · 6 years ago

I'm sorry to say it, you may be good at coding, but you have to adjust your math a bit. In order to obtain the percent of SP controlled by bots, you will need to query the whole list of users who have vested Steem, including the bots...

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

You are right, did it in a rush. Will update it. Thanks.

mejustandrew (58) · 6 years ago

I am glad I was able to help and not make you upset because of it :)

themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

I'm ok with my mistakes.

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reidlist (56) · 6 years ago

Oddly enough, the only way to stop making mistakes is to be okay with them.

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ackza (72) · 6 years ago (edited)

yeah you wouldn't like him when hes angry..... his alter ego comes out

hey but seriously great post @themarkymark upvoted and resteemed its important people know how much SP Bid Bots have and how much DEMAND they generate for SP which is one of the driving forces of a high Steem price of the future (well hah once mt gox dump is over we can have bull rally and $10 steem after hf20 no praaaaablem

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

Watch this

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mejustandrew (58) · 6 years ago

Sorry, if you want to make a point, just state it in a few words, because I can't invest 1h of my life into this one...

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reidlist (56) · 6 years ago

Haha, who posts an obscure hour long video with no context and expects anyone to watch it.

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jesusjacr (70) · 6 years ago

But if with less than a quarter of the SP the bid bots control the trending it means that the rest is not being used? otherwise the result would be different, at least that's what I think!

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reidlist (56) · 6 years ago

It could be that voting bot votes are more concentrated, or that people vote for what is most visible, so the votes end up going to whatever the voting bots put on trending.

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techslut (70) · 6 years ago

tl;dr - Far too much.

Yes, 12.5 is too much.

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anthonyadavisii (70) · 6 years ago

I agree and it's interesting that the figure has apparently dropped from @firedream's analysis a month or so ago which was in the 20's. So, my question is a lot of the bot delegators / speculators and or bot owners now scrambling to cash out. I noticed @isacoin post something about whales powering down.

Thanks for hooking a brotha up with an upvote on my last bid bot critical post btw. Cheers!

techslut (70) · 6 years ago

We are living in interesting times. Some whales are cashing out, while others fund the development of new bidbots like @bid.bot

I keep wanting to write a post about this whole thing, but can't seem to find the time. Thanks, Utopian! :P

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silentscreamer (69) · 6 years ago (edited)

... Whats important, for looking at how the trending page is formed is the active SP...
There are just so many idle accounts that dont use their SP at all.
Consider: Ned, Val-a, Val-b.... Only those 3 accounts have 4million SP between them..
So really, the stats listed here are completely meaningless when talking about bot use and the trending page.
Id bet anything that almost 50% if not more of all active SP is held by bots.

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isnochys (66) · 6 years ago

Could you please mark it, when linking to jbf?
I clicked on it and have to wash out my eyes with soap now
:/

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago (edited)

Lol. I did “idiot”. Is there more than one?

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isnochys (66) · 6 years ago

Three are so many idiots here.
And some of them are entertaining.
He. Not.
:))
And come on, 'idiot' that is clickbait on steem;)

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

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isnochys (66) · last year

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

Yes, youre also one of the steemit idiots...lol

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isnochys (66) · last year

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infidel1258 (67) · 6 years ago

Wow. I would have thought it was more than that too. If the bid-bots get above 25% I'd say the platform is in real trouble, because growth should come organically, from honest incentives being offered for quality content, MORE than just purchased off a bid-bot. IMO.

Having said that, while the bid-bot stake may only be 11%, that doesnt mean 89% of Steem voting power goes to incentivizing quality content, and the future of Steemit. Among the 89% steem voting power you have many people who only ever self-vote, and then others who only ever upvote their friends, and I would expect that there is a slim minority of that steem voting power that goes toward upvoting random, unknown, content creators for quality content on Steemit. Sadly.

Nevertheless, we each do our part, and hopefully we push the needle a little closer to good, and a little further from bad.

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

Having said that, while the bid-bot stake may only be 11%, that doesnt mean 89% of Steem voting power goes to incentivizing quality content, and the future of Steemit.

That problem existed well before bid bots.

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infidel1258 (67) · 6 years ago

Fair enough. Seperate topic but worth its own discussion, and as I said, we can all do our part to move us a little bit in the right direction. As you are with this content, and reply. Thanks.

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skycornish (55) · 6 years ago

Is it possible to create a fork that eliminates bid bots? They will literally ruin this platform if left unchecked.

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

Yes, it is possible, but bid bots are not the problem. The problem is the majority of users putting in zero effort and milking the system without any proper systems in place to prevent it and the ease a user can spam and plagiarize without punishment.

Bid bots offer a fair and transparent promotion system that was only available to the 1% in private underground channels. It's a form of advertisement and promotion that allows users to pay to get their content seen.

Trending was no better before Bid Bots, and in fact, it was more of the same good old boys that had contacts to get enough votes to place them there.

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r351574nc3 (72) · 6 years ago

It's a little unfair to claim these are the only bid bots. You can say it's probably 90% of them (giving a 10% margin for error), but even then it's not accounting for all the SP. There could be bots out there with more SP tied up in them than all the bots you've listed so far, and that'll really set things off (not likely though).

It's a good analysis, but it's not fair, so what numbers you take away from this...heed skepticism folks.

This number will change a little when you factor in bots who execute votes via a users account (like MinnowBooster and SteemMarket) but won't be too far off.

There are other bots as well. Community bots for example.

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dera123 (62) · 6 years ago

I don't think you can sum up all the Bot-SP and compare them to all SP left because you also have to consider how active the SP is used. For example take a look at neds SP, he has 1,752,000 SP and he doesn't use them a lot. And I don't know how many accounts don't upvote a single thing.

I would say that the bid bots own far more than 12% of the actively used SP.

Well but not that it's a bad thing ^^

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

That number would be incredibly hard to calculate.

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cryptoskul (38) · 6 years ago

@firepower has put up another question of how much of the non-bot SP is being actively used on a 24 hour time span?? Hard one,but you are the math guy hahahaha..

The link is here https://steemit.com/steemit/@firepower/how-much-of-the-total-powered-up-stake-is-used-daily-for-voting

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smooth (70) · 6 years ago

It's not that hard at all. Compare daily vote value of the bots with the daily reward pool. Downvotes/flags would throw this off a bit but not significantly.

I think that's actually a lot closer to what people care about. They may say 'so much of the SP is controlled by bid bots' but what they actually mean is 'so much of the reward pool is controlled by bid bots'.

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dera123 (62) · 6 years ago

Yep but the final number would be very interesting ;)

Posted using Partiko Android

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gyrosean (58) · 6 years ago

Hard to calculate should not mean that it is not the correct way to calculate it. As such, any other calculations are, in my opinion, a method of obfuscating the real impact bidbots have (good or bad) on the ecosystem.

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allcapsonezero (61) · 6 years ago

Thanks for doing this homework. It is valuable.

Also... this quote is very good "Bots haven't changed that (Trending page being crappy), it just changed who can get there."

Bots have a place, because the little guy deserves his day on top too. Thanks!

themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

Thanks for actually reading it :)

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oliverschmid (67) · 6 years ago (edited)

The 10 biggest Accs (Steem Inc & Friends) should not be considered in your calculation, they do not participate in the "game" and will never participate. Then the share of bots will be exorbitantly higher and only then will it reflect the massive influence in the trends.

mejustandrew (58) · 6 years ago

I don't think that the difference will be "exorbitantly higher", but there will be a pretty big one

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https://steemit.com/steem/@felixxx/how-much-of-the-rewards-get-distributed-by-boosters

oliverschmid (67) · 6 years ago (edited)

What is the point of a calculation without deducting "relevant" or "irrelevant" Accs?

Bildschirmfoto 2018-06-28 um 17.23.18.png

A fairer basis is the reward pool:

That is ~ 16%

For me, Marky Mark is one of the good ones, but I don't like those number tricks.

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

It's not a trick, it's a fact and a direct answer to the question asked.

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

thetrickymarkymark.... why write this post as a Bot Owner??? Duhhhh!!!

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ackza (72) · 6 years ago

Steemit Inc may own 96.98 million SP out of total 192.5 Million SP of total vesting fund.... and yeah that may be exactly 50.379 % of all Steempower but Steemit Inc almost is never using theyre Steempower... They really dont use much of their allocation of the reward pool because if they did use all their reward pool allocation, seems like everyone would actually loose like half of their rewards :D So hey, its liek a war chest for future development WOW Ned can use it at ANYtime as long as he just keeps his hands off and just starts incrementally using it, so no one will notice over time especially as steem goes up in price. Woooah pretty cool stuff, ned can half 50% of SP but its fine because theres also 78Million+ Steem thats still liquid out there so hey.... :) still very open to anyone who wants a stake! And you can actually depend on Ned NOT using his stake much :) He seems to only use Freedom to actually vote for witness! I see @ned as being EXTREMELY disciplined I mean how many of us could all stop from selling off hundreds of millions of dollars worth of crypto... he is holding back so that WE all benefit! THEN one day when its READY he can sell some stake and make good money doing it but hey, one day he WILL start to sell off enugh stake to make steem so decentralied that maybe he only hads like 25% stake? WOuldnt that be GOOD for steem?

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crypto-econom1st (57) · 6 years ago

I think you are right. Who will do the math?

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nokodemion (59) · 6 years ago

Spot On, its a game, and those flag whales are personality killers, nothing new, I played Ultima Online, the concept of personality killers or PK's is not new....

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flugschwein (60) · 6 years ago

What I think would've been very interesting as well is the number of SP in STINCs hands. Also how much of the used SP is in bid bots. Because there are

Many inactive accounts
Some accounts like @steemit which don't use their SP (luckily)

Would be awesome if you analyzed that as well :D

injiskitchen (66) · 6 years ago

Thanks for your valuable content steemit is a big sea each day i discovered something new, i'm a little confused since my account rate 58, should i continue promote my posts or should i power up my steem power? Hope you or some one give me an advice. Thank you.

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

Rep (what you call account rate) really doesn't mean much here.

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thedegensloth (59) · 6 years ago

Rep means nothing on steem, it can be bought so it's invalid an dun trustworthy. It just means you get a lot of whales voting or bot votes.

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moderndayhippie (67) · 6 years ago

Im pretty sure I read somewhere in the white paper that vote selling is not allowed on steemit.... isnt that exactly what bidbots do? Sell upvotes? Just asking a witness because you should have a better understanding about this than me and could possibly enlighten me.

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freebornangel (73) · 6 years ago

They ran @dan off so they could enable vote selling because price rise wasnt sure enough roi.

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moderndayhippie (67) · 6 years ago

I did not know that.. thanks for the info.

freebornangel (73) · 6 years ago

Yeah, this may be the new normal, but things werent always this way.

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jarotondi (47) · 6 years ago

Well played, sir. Thanks for the research.

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Have the Auto-Vote Bots Been Run Out of Dodge?

spiritualmatters (55) · 6 years ago

Good to know only 11%. I guess all the controversy they cause make them seem a lot worse.

Interestingly, I wrote a post recently:

Thanks for the clarification.

Peace.

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justinashby (61) · 6 years ago

At least we are staking assets.. Don't forget @sharkbank. That is my bot.

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shohana1 (77) · 6 years ago

Well i didn't have any idea of it, thanks for sharing this with us. 👍👍👍

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

Please watch

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curtross (42) · 6 years ago

Nice post! I use the tag nobidbots a lot because I would like to be able to say that it came without the help of bots, but articles like this could change my mind over time. I see a bit of why they are around. It is disheartening to see I have 215 followers and know that most of them are bots in general, even if they are not specifically bidbots.

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milano1113 (58) · 6 years ago (edited)

Very interesting and informative data. However, there is at least one bot missing such as @tipu. How can your data be reliable if it’s incomplete? Have you taken in consideration the increased number of people delegating to bots? Have you excluded the delegations from real people to bots?
Thanks in advance!

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

I mention the source of my data in the post. If it isn’t listed on SteemBotTracker it isn’t calculated. But that should be a tiny amount and wouldn’t move the numbers all the much.

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ranahussnainali (43) · 6 years ago

I'm not active in too many markets/pairings, but there always a bot "one-upping" me no matter what. I have no problem with bots

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silentscreamer (69) · 6 years ago (edited)

Hmmm. So are you saying that out of 1million Steem accounts, 12% of SP is tied up in bots, or are you saying that out of the active users, 12% is tied in bots.
Its of an immense importance what stats you pulled.

If its the stats from option 1... That means little to nothing. Trending page is dynamic and current, the idle accounts mean nothing to it. (and you know fair well that some idle accounts hold massive amounts of SP)

The important stats are those of active accounts, those that participate in reward distribution, that being through delegation to bots (or other accounts) or through organic upvoting.
Those that affect the trending page are those that hold SP that is used in the reward distribution. Simple as that.

Sry to say, but your stats are slightly deceptive.

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

Out of all accounts, ~11.111% Steem Power is in bots.
But if you factor in active accounts, the number will be higher.

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silentscreamer (69) · 6 years ago (edited)

👏 just take... Val-a, Val-b and Ned and you have circa 4 million SP right there....but you have to admit this post is a red herring. Youre drawing a argument not one critic with at least the basic knowledge of the inner workings of steem would be making.
And attacking the bot delegation % criticism.

The criticism pertains to bot use-trending page effect.... And really... What argument are you trying to make here from a position of a bot owner?
Is it close to 50% of active user base SP?.. Id take that bet.

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vikas4233 (5) · 6 years ago

hii @themarkymark, again i found here some useful information related to Steemit and Steemit community.
Thanks lots and waiting for your next video.
Keep your support to @vikas4233 with your valuable upvote and suggestions on @vikas4233 blogs

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

watch this

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nonameslefttouse (74) · 6 years ago

There's still the part about how 11% of the SP is tied up within 108 out of somewhere around 1000000 accounts though. Even when we point out how 11% of the SP is tied up within 108 out of around 60000 active accounts, it's still a bit of a tough pill to swallow at times.

It's an option, sure, people can choose to delegate, and when they do, they shouldn't complain if their posts don't receive votes from the many others who delegated for the simple fact that without their own SP to use, their votes on each other are useless anyway.

If they decided to delegate away their SP, then want access to it and have to spend money so they can then use the SP they already own, that's their silly decision as well.

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bozz (70) · 6 years ago

hah, great work doing the research on this post. I think it is easy to understand why people think it is a much larger percentage. Especially these days with the rewards being so thin and the price of Steem being so low. 108 bid bots really doesn't seem like that many given the total number of users on Steemit. For so few it still seems like there is a lot of wealth tied up in one place.

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

For your Consideration:

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https://www.reddit.com/r/theydidthemath/

themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

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itstime (60) · 6 years ago

yes , same thing , that's the idea.

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funbobby51 (59) · 6 years ago

how did you get so awesome?

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asqal (37) · 6 years ago

thank you for information

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prameshtyagi (71) · 6 years ago

Bid bots have helped the steem ecosystem to grow. And I am sure taking off flag options will do same.

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago (edited)

Of course, a plagiarist would think that...
But hey, Stop Terrorism!

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

Biggest spammer and scammer on steemit

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

This user is on my list for spamming people with @badcontent and flagging people with @ipromote @themarkymark @upmyvote

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alan369 (56) · 6 years ago

Great calculation

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jpederson96 (65) · 6 years ago

Great stats and I'm glad this

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jpederson96 (65) · 6 years ago

Great stats and I am glad someone is doing the research behind it. Though I don't think this neccessarily means bid bots are positive. Just that their impact is only marginally 11%. I am curious, however, if that includes delegated SP. Even so, is there a way for you to run the stats on how much SBD is allocated due to bid bots. There might be a decent number of whales with a lot of SP but not using that SP in any significant manner.

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

This factors in delegation (in and out).

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to7 (65) · 6 years ago

Very interesting figures. It would be interesting to see the results with inactive SP removed from the total. I really need to dig in some more like this. I'm also curious how many accounts are passive and using trails or delegation to keep earning. An onion has many layers and it seems Steem is a giant onion. haha. Thanks for the information.

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deliberator (63) · 6 years ago

You shot the "idiot" down with facts, way to go.
I wish the idiot would put some clothes on also, though at least he has stopped (for now) talking about doing this =

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

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postpromoter (63) · 6 years ago

You got a 53.37% upvote from @postpromoter courtesy of @ipromote!

Want to promote your posts too? Check out the Steem Bot Tracker website for more info. If you would like to support the development of @postpromoter and the bot tracker please vote for @yabapmatt for witness!

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pururajsingh (25) · 6 years ago

Thanks For Sharing Interesting word

11.111% .............

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upme (49) · 6 years ago

You got a 58.12% upvote from @upme thanks to @ipromote! Send at least 3 SBD or 3 STEEM to get upvote for next round. Delegate STEEM POWER and start earning 100% daily payouts ( no commission ).

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whatsup (75) · 6 years ago

Hey, thanks for the breakdown. It seems there are waves of the trending page being better or worse. Right now it is pretty bad.

It would help a lot if people of all account sizes stepped up and flagged the worst posts. Sigh, everyone wants everyone else to "clean" the site.

I agree that the ability for anyone to use stake to promote their post is an overall win for the community. It does also create some issues. There are Pros and Cons.

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technicalsns (48) · 6 years ago

i will appreciate your effort for this post and effort of SteemSQL for calculation lolx.

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freebornangel (73) · 6 years ago

Are they still taking 30% of the pool?
30% goes to the top ten voters.
That leaves 40% for the other 52k of us!

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

They are not taking 30% of the pool, the community takes most of those votes. It's spread much wide and more sparse than it was prior to bid bots.

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freebornangel (73) · 6 years ago

That is a @paulag number, it is somewhat dated.

And the top ten voters?
No worries that 30% of the pool goes to their favorites?

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

No worries that 30% of the pool goes to their favorites?

nepotism at it's finest.

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firepower (79) · 6 years ago

Thanks for the quick turn around.

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isacoin (64) · 6 years ago

If you minus the SP poweredup and not used for voting like steemit accounts etc

would give a more accurate result as they are not part of reward distribution

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

I really feel sorry for you 😂😂😂😂😂

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luckyspark (47) · 6 years ago

Thanks for posting this I have been writing post and using many of this tags but non of them seems to vote up now I have know the secret behind all

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

You I care about you flagging me loser I no you got bullied as a child and adult 😂😂😂😂

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wendyth16 (67) · 6 years ago

VERY GOOD STATISTICS AND INFORMATION,
WE HAVE TO SELECT A GOOD BOT

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paparodin (54) · 6 years ago

I can enjoy some good calculations.

There are a couple dark numbers unaccounted for, but others have pointed that out as well. I think we are probably more around the 20-30% range.

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gyrosean (58) · 6 years ago

Could you calculate total voting power used per day, followed by how much voting power is used by bidbots, then average that over a 7 day window? That will give you an accurate sense of how bidbots are actually influencing the overall ecosystem.

Your current calculations are akin to the people jumping for joy at 1 Million accounts, but actual usage has hovered around 60k a day and 150k a month, far fewer than the number of accounts.

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jarvie (70) · 6 years ago

Thanks fun seeing the numbers here.

K so have we have a list of POSSIBLE voting power representation of total vested.
Any attempts of ACTUAL voting power representation from the BidBots?

I'm guessing that's harder to figure out. But I look forward to seeing the post when it comes out.

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crypto-econom1st (57) · 6 years ago

Based on @abh12345 research 93mln SP is actively used to upvote (at least 1 upvote per week). Can anyone (@penguinpablo @abh12345 or @themarkymark) explain the big difference of 97mln with the total SP @themarkymark found (190mln)?

@abh12345 found 18.5mln bid bots and 6.1 for @minnowbooster and @smartmarket. Gives a total of 24.6mln owned by bots. 24.6 is 26% from the total 93mln.

What do you think about this analysis?

@cicbar, about the 30% I mentioned the other day, looks like that is being a bit too high. But somewhere between 11%-26% it is most likely.

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago (edited)

There is a lot of stake that isn't used for voting, Steemit Inc's specifically, even @ned has a lot of stake but rarely votes. Some believe this stake should be removed from the calculation, at least the Steemit Inc non-voting stake. That will definitely increase the % as they have a lot.

I just checked and in the last 30 days, 110M SP has been used to vote, in the last week around 106M SP.

Out of 1M accounts, only about 49K create content on a weekly basis and about 170K vote on a weekly basis. So there are a lot of accounts that don't do either, some of them have stake.

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crypto-econom1st (57) · 6 years ago

So you agree that 26% is the outcome when you look at the actual impact?

Don't you think that is important for you as witness?
With 11% I surely agree this is not really a big issue. But with 26% it is kind of an issue. And when it increases to 40% then it really is.

If you make a decision based on the 11%, you could make a decision based on the wrong numbers. Also you informed a few/a lot (don't know how many you reach) with incorrect information. At least that's my opinion.

So any chance you will update your 11% to 26%?

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teamsteem (74) · 6 years ago

Do you have a link to @abh12345's research?

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Yes, https://steemit.com/utopian-io/@abh12345/how-much-available-sp-is-there-for-steemit-com-content

crypto-econom1st (57) · 6 years ago

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curtiscolwell (43) · 6 years ago

Is it because behind every bid bot is a user that siphons off the earnings perhaps?

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somethingsubtle (56) · 6 years ago

Is percent distribution of voting power the best variable?

If we added activity, how would that change the picture?
i.e. I'm guess a large percentage of voting power (50%+) goes completely unused. It would belong to the inactive.

Then, from the remaining, the fact that 10% is locked into bidbots would likely be very high.

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paulavg (52) · 6 years ago (edited)

Nice way of share this, good post and right numbers

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ahmadmanga (65) · 6 years ago (edited)

Wow, I thought Bid bots have more SP of the pool, but I realize from the start that it's far from %50... Maybe it was %20 in my imagination?

Anyway, even %12 is a big amount, but at least it is divided on all the bid bots and all the users who use them (which in my opinion can only make bid bots stronger.) Is the only upvote bot (that's not a bid bot) you put here is minnowbooster? I want to know if you put those bots too in the list.

Also, yeah, TRENDING sucks and it will always suck... please don't look at it for your heart health.

Glad to know someone researched this.

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binkyprod (67) · 6 years ago

So what does this translate to for the ecosystem? Does this mean we are losing out? Or does this mean we are gaining? I don't use bots, and my delegation is not and will not be to bid bots. I guess what I'm wondering is what does this 11.111% mean?

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bashadow (65) · 6 years ago

Your number still does not tell the whole story, because there is a lot of steem power that simply does not vote example @ned:
1,752,796.72 SP [ NA ] ( 0.00 % self, 1 upvotes, 1 accounts, last 7d )
Information from steemworld.
Not to mention the thousands of accounts that have small amounts of SP and are inactive. So for a real percentage number you would need to exclude the inactive or non voting or only votes in a blue moon from the calculation. less than 10 votes in 10 days, exclude those accounts and you might be close to a real percentage of the voting being done by bid bots.

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cryptoearnmoney (34) · 6 years ago

Good post nice cat

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guruvaj (57) · 6 years ago

Let us not rely to much to bots to do our upvoting, share upvotes, use your steempower to really appreciate those content creators you deemed worthy of your time.

Less automation can be good for steemit.

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pankuvirat (39) · 6 years ago

oh gosh, I am damn poor in maths. I need to wash my eyes now.

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mdsohagm752 (13) · 6 years ago

Thanks for the post.

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teenovision (52) · 6 years ago

should we or not give our steem to bots at this stage

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abupasi.alachy (60) · 6 years ago

Thanks for sharing brader 😊 love you so much.

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ammonite (67) · 6 years ago

You learn something new every day. I really thought there would be more tied up in bidbots. But, I still think they are really damaging steem and giving a very negative image to new users and visitors to the sites when coupled with the trending page.
I think it would be great if those with unused SP would delegate to things like Curie which has a much better perspective on what should be hitting the trending page. Then hopefully bidbots would cease to be useful and Steem can grow and become something we can all be proud of.
Just my 0.o2SDB

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sarthakgupta (47) · 6 years ago

Thanks for this valuable information. Since Iam a newbie to steemit with steempower 25, I would like your suggestion whether to continue promoting my posts or should i power up my steem power? Hope you spare few seconds to resolve my confusion.

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jpphotography (70) · 6 years ago

That's interesting, thanks for this insight!
I think it makes more sense to calculate the percentage of SP in bid bots compared to the total market = 21,240,294.1576 / (169,663,397.8027+21,240,294.1576)
or 21,240,294.1576 / total vested steem = 192,514,454 (from steemd.com)
which puts the percentage even a bit lower.

But I fear that the bots distribute a much larger part of the rewards pool, since they always vote with their SP while a lot of large SP holders (just take all the Steemit Inc accounts!) are not using their SP to vote.
Could you run some stats on how much of the rewards pool is distributed by bots?

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arcange (73) · 6 years ago

WARNING - The message you received from @shovon51 is a CONFIRMED SCAM!
DO NOT FOLLOW any instruction and DO NOT CLICK on any link in the comment!

For more information about this scam, read this post:
https://steemit.com/steemit/@arcange/anti-phishing-war-the-crooks-continue-their-bashing-campaign

If you find my work to protect you and the community valuable, please consider to upvote this warning or to vote for my witness.

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playfulfoodie (68) · 6 years ago

Hmm, honestly to me this is still a big percentage. Keeping in mind the amount of SP a few whale accounts hold, there's only so much left to be spread out over the rest of the accounts. If we take the biggest whales out of the equation, bid bots own a considerable amount of SP.

Ofcourse, like you said, Trending has always been crap, because not all of the bigger whales like to spread their votes around much.

I'll still say I hate bid bots though ;-)

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thedegensloth (59) · 6 years ago

This would change a lot if we got the v.20 update, more accounts means they are spread more thin.

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cryptomad10 (25) · 6 years ago

@themarkymark sir will this bot contribution effect to newcomers because they have more steem powers or this will benefit to their loved ones ??
Nice stats.....

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dhanu1998 (40) · 6 years ago

@themarkymark how can help steem power for steemit users??

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tjourneyinge (49) · 6 years ago (edited)

Hard worker you are... nice!

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kamrulhasan1988 (44) · 6 years ago

More learning content is present. I have got more informatin. It is helpful for me.

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church-of-piglet (50) · 6 years ago

The percentage you calculated could well be closer to the truth than the 50% we hear about, but:

Shouldn't you take into account that all the bidbots' SP is being actively used for voting, whereas some of rest of the SP in the community, including some very large accounts, is just sitting there and is not being used for curating?

This would mean the bidbots' actual effect will be rather larger than the 11% you arrive at.

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tsnaks (63) · 6 years ago

Bid bots should be removed somehow

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saqlainnaik (36) · 6 years ago

Fantastic work with this one,kudos.

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sameerr (30) · 6 years ago

WOW NICE BILLI

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michelle.gent (74) · 6 years ago

1,000,000 vests equal 492.539 Steem, so that means 21,240,294.1576 Steem Power is controlled by bots.

Is that number correct for today's market?

If, for example, 1,000,000 VESTS = 2030 STEEM, that would make the calculations = 87,541,811,603,922.67992 which (off the top of my head) would make around 44%

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

It is 492.539 not 2030. Not sure where you are getting 2030.

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michelle.gent (74) · 6 years ago

It was theoretical :)

I always thought the Steem/VEST price fluctuated. Where did you get your figure from?

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago (edited)

The blockchain, it would be 1000 years before it is that high.
It doesn't fluctuate as much as it just slowly increases (~2%/year or so)

Can always go here:
http://www.steemdollar.com/vests.php

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michelle.gent (74) · 6 years ago

Thank you, that's very helpful.

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michelle.gent (74) · 6 years ago

Hey @themarkymark, thanks for the link, I've had a play with the calculations and there's a lot more clarity in my life now (or at least my steemit.com based life).

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krishvardhan (26) · 6 years ago

well done

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steemcenterwiki (59) · 6 years ago

Thanks for sharing! Links to your post and calculation info were included in the Steem.center wiki articles about Upvotes Bots and STEEM Power (SP). Thanks and good luck again!

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michaelluchies (54) · 6 years ago

Surprised (I guess I shouldn't be) with how many bid bots there are in total. Demand breeds supply I guess.

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techstack (50) · 6 years ago

So what is final thoughts?

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rentmoney (68) · 6 years ago

I am not against bid bots but that is likely an incomplete list. Lots of bid / slash human bid / resteem " bots " as well. I do believe your numbers are more accurate then the 50 % mentioned in your post.

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago

Those bots are tiny in comparison, resteem bots have almost no SP and rarely vote if they do their SP is insignificant typically.

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rentmoney (68) · 6 years ago (edited)

There is a quite a few of them and more starting up daily. While allot have little SP it still adds up because there are so many of them. Either way it likely doesn't change your number too significantly.

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themarkymark (78) · 6 years ago (edited)

Not really, they would need millions of SP to really make a difference to the numbers much. That's not happening in these tiny micro bots.

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geekpowered (69) · 6 years ago

Congratulations on having one of the only worthwhile posts in trending.

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roshanlal2017 (39) · 6 years ago

Nice post, the name of the posterity, the information given on your behalf is very accurate, I am greatly impressed with the information given by you.

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garudi (61) · 6 years ago (edited)

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killerteesuk (47) · 6 years ago

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