Is Language a barrier in steemit?

in steemit •  8 years ago  (edited)

Is language a barrier in steemit community?

I was busy writing a travel log the other day and just on my hourly steemit visit, I came across @cryptofiend’s blog.
read it here: read it here.
https://steemit.com/sport/@thecryptofiend/the-sporting-taboo-is-using-performance-enhancing-drugs-really-cheating

Now, the blog was quite interesting and thought provoking and that really set my grey cells ticking. I started commenting and we both had some thoughts exchanged on the subject. you can read my comments in the above blog.

To start with my blog here, I quote a small section from @Cryptofiend’s blog.

Most athletic and sporting organisations put forth the view that
keeping PED out of sports helps to maintain a level playing field. "It
makes things fair because nobody has an unfair advantage."

The "level playing field" idea is a myth.

I would like to assert that this is complete nonsense.

There is no level playing field, because a level playing field assumes that everyone starts off at the same baseline level of ability and chances. There are multiple factors that create differences between people

Later on sometine soon, I came across another blog by @tinashe, read his blog here: https://steemit.com/steemit/@tinashe/steemit-future-in-africa-zimbabwe-going-viral.

@tinashe is steemian from Zimbabwe with a very inspiring hopeful blog on future of steemit in Africa (Zimbabwe)

I quote from his blog:

According to the United Nation-2016, 72.3% of all Zimbabweans were considered poor, whilst 62.6% of the households in Zimbabwe are deemed poor. Poverty is more prevalent in rural areas compared to urban areas with about 76% of the rural households considered poor compared to 38.2% of urban households.

From what I see from the Steemit stories till now, most of the
Steemians are Western people. Off course it's nice to receive a couple of hundreds bucks for a post, but imagine what it means for people that have a monthly salary of 50$ or even less. We are sitting on something than can change the lives of a lot of people.

Zimbabwean community have showed great interest in Steemit because there is a lot of untapped raw talent.There are many talented writers,singers ,poets , actors who lake exposure ,and will use this platform to showcase their talents

Please read @tinashe’s blog here:
https://steemit.com/steemit/@tinashe/steemit-future-in-africa-zimbabwe-going-viral

After reading these 2 blogs, I could not continue writing with my next travel blog any more.

I saw language appeared to be a great unequalizer in the steemit community and felt deeply obliged and compelled to address an apparent disparity that I saw in the steemit platform.

Steemit blogging is all about engagement by the author with his/her readers, the intensity of which leads subsequently to the upvotes and payouts.

Let’s for a moment think.... Can a Zimbabwean blogger engage his readers with the same intensity as an European or American blogger in steemit? Of course there are exceptions and there could be a few awesome zimbabwean bloggers around.. But here I am speaking about the general or the average zimbabwean.

Let’s check it out. In Zimbabwe, only 2% consider English as a native language while the rest of the population speak Shona (76%) and Ndebele(18%) where as in Europe, about 51% have sufficient skills in English to have a conversation and in America it is 80%
( source Wikipedia/ internet)

Next the Europeans and North Americans are generally well travelled, have better access to education, resulting in perhaps, better articulation and presentation. Grammatically their language also score very high compared to an asian or an African native.

Further United states and Europe are in the forefront of technology, science and it decades before some of these technology reach the third world countries. For example.


(Old hand water pump (c. 1924) at the Colored School in Alapaha, Georgia, US; typical of the period and the area)
(Image source: Internet...Image for representation only)


(present day India or Africa where handpump is used)
(Image source: Internet...Image for representation only)

and that is a full 93 years later, India still uses the hand pump while it's almost in museum in developed countries.

The reason of all my above preamble is to put forth my thoughts across: Do the Europeans and Americans when it comes to blogging in their native language? could that mean a disparity at the very core of writing in steemit community ?

Are the zimabweians at a disadvantage here?.
@tinashe said in his blog.

there is a lot of untapped raw talent.There are many talented
writers,singers ,poets , actors who lack exposure

These gentlemen from Zimbabwe are quite talented and can articulate very well in their native language and put forth their views, thoughts in very powerful manner in say Shona or Ndebele, but when it comes to penning down the same views in an alien language like English with which they are not fluent nor comfortable,

This could mean that their blogs could get diluted and the engagement with the reader could be lost, simply meaning the reader may not return to the bloggers page again.

And eventually the blogger’s posts gets sidelined or lost in the big blog-world of steemit where every other minute a blog is getting posted .

If this happens again and again, many talented Zimbabweans will gradually get frustrated, slowly slip into oblivion and eventually fade out of the platform.

On the other side, the blogger, say an European or American, who is comfortable with English being his native language, who can articulate well and lay out a beautifully structured blog as it is inherently quite natural and normal for him.. He obviously will be able to hold his readers attention better and longer. And that could make all the difference who gets paid and who does not get paid.

And there are only a finite no of steem generated every 24 hours.
In my short duration on steemit, I have seen some blogs where language was the sole and the major reason for setback and they were non starters with not even a dollar to show, even when the subject showed immense potential in the first place.

I have also seen some blogs which were articulated extremely well, the language flowed smoothly, but the content was just appeared to me as ordinary (I could be wrong here) but it paid out better.

Even for a moment if we believe that the blogger with poor language skills has good content and follow him, eventually will get put off with the same after a while and stop following him.

I am not saying it happened, but just a possibility that sprung in my mind.

With hundreds of blogs being posted every hour, each blog’s window span of getting attention is a very small duration and it is imperative that the author gets the attention of potential reader to his blog and a good language is one of the major factor ( apart from content itself) to keep him glued to the page, once he arrives there.

Of course curators are putting full time efforts to give visibility to such blogs but it appears the blog counts are increasing much more than curators could perhaps manage. This is again just an assumption on my part as since last month thousands of new steemians have come on board and curators have that much more work to do.

Here I attempt to find some way out to make it an even playing field for the disadvantaged zimbabweans.

Now if you are in a difficult situation with language as mentoned above, you can attempt any of the following:

  • If English is not your native language or if you are at a disadvantage due to the language, please use the help of a friend who is good in English and you have him narrate the story for you. You give him the right feel and words and let him put it in English.
  • If you are slightly better, always get a proof reading done by someone who is proficient in English. This will weed out grammatical mistakes and makes the blog reader friendly. Your engagement starts getting better
  • Get hold of a dictionary, better use a thesaurus. Thesaurus gives you the synonyms that is multiple words with same meaning. Choose the best word for your sentence the one that closely relates to what you want to express. Do not use the wrong word, the meaning of the expression could change and that is not good
  • Read English newspapers, magazines, novels anything that you can lay your hands on.. Read more, practise more . spend 2 hours at least a day on polishing your English. That could come real handy as you progress to become a good & matured blogger in future.
  • Attend English classes, learn the grammar, start speaking in language more often. Start speaking deliberately and ask to be corrected whenever you commit any error while speaking. Polish your English.
  • If you are still feeling uncomfortable. Use more photos. A photo is worth a thousand words. Interject short sentences between the photos and build your story. Let the photo narrate your stories.
  • Make a video and let your friend speak in the background. He should be agood in English. It is your content and your blog. But the presenter need not be you. You can give credit to oyr friend for the same in the end
  • Start your own language group. There are Chinese, Korean, Japanese groups already here . Start your own language group if your language community has a large count here, while at the same time continue learning and improving your English . When u get the hang of the platform you are ready with your English
  • The idea is to connect, engage and get your blog across to your readers in best possible manner.

The above story could be related to any Indian, Asian African or any third world or developing country native where english is not a native language . I just happened to choose Zimbabwe since I happen to come across @tinashe's blog and that sparked this thought in my mind.

This blog has another take away, a very interesting one if I could say. I shall blog on that aspect very soon. So please keep a tab on my next post.

Disclaimer: All the graphic contents sourced from internet.

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Yeah... that's a problem. It's harder for me to wright on English. But hopefully we have a Golos for Russian bloggers ^_^

@master-set cool you have a solution :)

It can be problem, I usually use google translate when reading blogs in another language

@djohan I agree google translate is a solution. But consider this. My mother tongue is Konkani. it is a spoken language and there is no written script in this language. so no alphabets whatsoever. Google translate cant help me as I cant input anything. but yes majority of languages, google translate will help :)

hi topdog, i just searched, konkani is spoken by more than 7 million people. Interesting indeed. There is now a translation device that allows voice input. Every problem will have solutions , and language barrier will be no problem in the near future :)

@djohan, 7 million speaking Konkani?. that's cool info. I never knew it. yes. eventually every problem will have solutions. I agree there. Language barrier will be no problem in future..

found it on google :

Konkani is an Indo-Aryan language belonging to the Indo-European family of languages and is spoken along the South western coast of India. Wikipedia
Native speakers: 7.4 million

@djohan wow the roots run deep then. cool :)

I've noticed this as well. I wonder if Steemit will eventually develop communites of sorts for those that cannot speak or write in english very well. We've already seen it with Japanese and Korean users, as well as Spanish-speaking users. I'm sure we'll see a Chinese community grow, and etc. But what about those that speak languages that are less prevalent, such as those in Zimbabwe? I don't want the answer given, to be that they must learn English. I think doing so would put them at a huge advantage on this site, as well as in life. But ultimately, I think the platform would have a wider appeal if that wasn't necessary.

да, для многих - это барьер.
To be honest, yeah, lots of russians are here, on Steem, cannot normally use the platform as they experience "language issues".
I'm russian as well, but my english is rather fluent.
Well, I graduated from english university, lived in Malaysia for 3 years (official language there is english).
But even I'm experiencing some issues with expressing myself.

As a native Russian I know Russian perfect - it's my weapon. But inspite of I know English not to bad, i would never write any long article say about Nabokov or about Almodovar films. for now of course.

I can share a lot of information which I learned for while my life, but I don't have enough blocks-words just to write-write-write without breaks for checking a word in a dictionary or rewriting all sentence because of wrong words order.

For writing really well you need to think on the language

True. Your message is easy to understand for me as the russian guy. But it might be confusing for other readers :)

Good article. It's so true that language can be such a barrier.

There never has been or could be a level playing field. Same language speakers misunderstand each other all the time. So much meaning is conveyed by body language and tone, and not just the words!

Steemit offers a meeting ground. I hope we can all truly communicate!

Obvious solution, at least in my opinion, is to encourage and allow people to use their native languages. All that requires is pretty simple changes to the UI.

There is a Github issue that has been open for a while now... But no development so far.

https://github.com/steemit/condenser/issues/300

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

@samupaha, that could be awesome. My mother tongue is konkani. It is a spoken language. there is no script. apart from that I also speak Tulu, Kannada, Tamil, Telugu, Hindi and last english. I struggle to get the right words in english. It is quite difficult for me.

Thumbs up for such long article.
English is not my native language I face difficulties in expressing my views. I could deliver my point of view in a better way if I could deliver it in my mother tongue. But on this platform, there is no option left other than English. So, I am trying hard to improve my English so that I could interact with people and express my views in a better way.

@ayeshanor, I face the same problem. my mother tongue is konkani. it is a spoken language, there is no script for it. apart from Konkani, I also speak Tulu, tamil, kannada, Telugu, Hindi and last is english. so it is difficult for me to articulate in english. I need to put a lot of effort. But I do.

I like this post. I can relate to it in many ways. Zimbabwe is my country's neighbour. You probably heard about my country, Malawi. Considered the poorest country in the world. To be honest, just bringing the internet to the everyone would be a massive achievement. @tinashe is doing a great job. I hope to learn a few things from him. Perhaps I will be posting how to made steemit viral in Malawi

@kuwala313, I had downloaded a school photo from Malawi where children are studying in a church in very difficult conditions. Then I was concerned how it would be received here in steemit. so I just posted the quotes instead of an actual Malawi children studying photo here. do not worry @kuwala313. slowly things will improve. everything will be fine. Keep hope :)

Great write up. Language as always been a barrier to human in this present time as we all come from different countries, speaking different languages.

But its always a good thing to know that English brought most it not all of us together.

@saintopic. Glad that you liked it. Thanks to english, we are able to converse comfortably with each other in spite of hailing from different countries with different languages.

@topdog, you bring up an important topic here...

Yes, I agree that there is no "level playing field." That's just LIFE, and any pretense otherwise is simply pulling the wool over one's own eyes.

But we can also ask to what extent we need to attempt to make the playing field level. If I go to the hospital needing brain surgery for my kid, you can be damn sure I'm going to look for the Princeton educated neurosurgeon to do the job, and not give "equal opportunity" to the local village butcher... in the guise of it being "fair play" that they are "both people with knives." I realize that sounds extreme, and it's meant to, as a point of reference to rattle the whole equality thing.

More functionally speaking, it was always my genuine hope that the Steemit "Communities" initiative would include native languages. To me, it would be a beautifully simple way to do some leveling of the playing field: Right now, we aready have "cn" and "kr" and a few other tags... so why not implement a full set of "fixed" tags corresponding to the same way Web domains of different nations have a two-letter extension-- for example, I am Danish and there would be a "dk" community.

So that would allow a sort of "level playing field" within one's own language.

Of course, the counter argument is that "the bulk of Steemit activity is English language based" and that's true. If you wish to participate in the "big time" you'll most likely require English... although some "kr" and "cn" blogs are hugely popular.

I'm just thinking out loud here, because it seems this will become an increasingly important issue as our community grows.

I suppose another possible (although not perfect) possibility is for one of our talented developers to create a "translate this" app that goes between the different languages, allowing anyone to create and read any content in any language. Grammar and usage "awkwardness?" Sure, but at least it would greatly increase accessibility.

Edited to add: P.S. English isn't my first language, either!

@denmarkguy, your english is excellent. Even with a translate app, I am at a disadvantage. my mother tongue is Konkani, it is a spoken language and there is no script to it. apart from that I also speak another 5 native Indian languages. English came much later. I find difficult to get the right words to express my exact feelings in this platform. Hope I will improve as I keep blogging away. :)

Well, I think your English is also excellent... and certainly no hindrance to understanding!

@denmarkguy , Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate it very much. :)

Yes, there is problem.

last week I posted my notes about https://steemit.com/chainbb-general/@allfabeta/notnative-english-language-users
and all I get as a responses > learn English

@alfabeta, I read your above blog. your concern are the same as what I have raised in this blog.

thank you for your post. I can't express all my feelings and thoughts in English. The main problem for me is to understand which word to use. For example in Russian - a word "рисковать" - means "to risk". In English "take risks, gamble, to take a chance, hazard" and so on, so on, million options . What word to choose?
Or here's another situation. Teachers still teache us to use "Shall" for I and we. But it's not used in modern English languages.
I hope you'll understand what I want to say. Sorry for mistakes)

@zazazum, I understand your concern, but I believe with time you will get a grip over English. It is only a matter of time. Keep writing and posting. Slowly your language will become polished. Don't feel upset. Do not give up. Blog regularly. You will definitely be successful.God bless

Thank you so much! I'm trying to write reviews. It's so hard, you can't imagine. But I'll keep trying!)))

@zazazum. Never Give Up. Just keep pushing it. Practise practise practise. Don't give up. You will succeed eventually. 😊

I don't really think language could be a big issue, for folks who are comfortable in native language they could probably use google translate

@orionsbelt, yes google translate is great. my mother tongue is Konkani. it is a spoken language. there is no script in Konkani meaning I cannot write in Konkani. so google translate might not be able to help me. I need to put my head down and do all the hard work to get to some decent level in english :)

Hi, great read. I am a language practitioner and its amazing how much language can make or break. Thank you for the article!

@adeleschormann, many thanks your kind words. Much appreciated. God bless

Languages are going to fragment a community like this. That's just the nature of language and what Steemit lends itself to. Steemit is mostly for textual information. If all of the posts were all visual art, I could appreciate one by someone who has no English ability at all. Google translate helps somewhat.

The use of language tags help. These are standard ISO tags. Use 'kr', 'cn', 'es', etc... The interface of Steemit itself is English only and that must be really annoying for those of you who are more comfortable using another language.

@leprechaun, I agree with you, my native language is Konkani and it is a spoken language that does not have a script. I also speak many native languages like Tulu, Kannada, Tamil, Telugu, Hindi apart from some English, in that order. It's tough, but challenging and interesting too. Hope regular blogging irons out some rough edges from my language 😊

The lovely people in Zimbabwe and elsewhere in Africa have something that those in the West and Europe don't have.

They have Africa!

It is an amazing and unique place, both naturally and culturally. the mundane things just outside their back door are marvelous to those who have never left their own borders.

I picture is worth a thousand words, o so they say. So they can take photos and post them - with a short description. A small amount of English that they can spend a little time on to get it right.

I think too, those who have English as a first language need to just chill a bit when it comes to reading posts from places where this is not the native language.

I read a book by our very own @dragosroua called Running for my life. His English is not perfect (he is from Romania), but his story was. And it inspired me to start running and see if I could run a marathon.

I can, and I did, last weekend and now I'm traiining for my fist ultra-marathon.

My point is the English doesn't need to be perfect to reach and engage and audience. The audience just need to be receptive and understanding, and not too caught up in the 'correctness' of the language used.

@trevor.george sir your reply filled my heart with joy. You have a perfect understanding of humans, our earth, and much more. If your reply were to be posted as a separate blog, Just the above statements would have garnered a 1000 likes :) God Bless

Awwwww.... thanks very much f that. ;-)

That's a very nice thing to say.

And I might do post about that, now that you suggest it. :-)

@trevor.george please write a blog. Use the very words that you posted to reply to me. You have a very large heart. I look forward to read your blog sometime soon. :) we need more steemians like you !!

ok, now I am blushing ;-)

As requested, here is a slightly more expanded post on my viewpoint:

https://steemit.com/steemit/@trevor.george/why-writing-in-perfect-english-is-not-a-priority-on-steemit

At first I thought that the language barrier would interfere. But for more than a week I have been communicating with everyone in fresh broken English, and I have not noticed any barrier. All are so benevolent that it's a pleasure.

@dlina-v-metrah. Yes. That is the beauty of Steemit. Everyone is very accommodative and helpful. That helps in building a healthy community. I was trying to say that we can attempt to learn better English so that we can communicate more effectively. 😊

we just need a good AI to automatically translate posts tbh

@anarchyhasnogods hehehe may be AI is a good idea :)

YOUR NAILED THIS ARTICLE @topdog YOUR BROUGHT OUT THE SALIENT POINT OF LANGUAGE BARRIER.Thanks for the many mentions ,hope on your next post about the interesting take away wont smash me.
clapping.gif

I appreciate the love .Thank you once again

@tinashe, I was awake a long time after reading your blog. and that language thing bugged me very much. felt your guys need to put in lot more effort to make a difference. so just poured out my thoughts in the form of a blog. my next takeaway is nothing to do with language. It is just a simple solution to a common work here. a round about if you say.. you might like it. God Bless you always :)

Well thats very true @topdog the playing field is not level,i put extra effort carefully choosing my words ,trying to express myself in a way that some one in america would understand what i am putting across.You get used to it though.With more practice you become better

@tinashe, Yes. I put in lot of efforts to choose the right word and the flow of the sentence. Hope it becomes easier as I keep blogging. :)

I would say resources are the barrier. Why get a phone and internet connection when you can't get clean water. Its the sad reality of third world countries.

@feelsomoon. I fully agree with you. Our people in rural India face the exact issue that you mentioned here. very true

Yea I would love for people to benefit but first we must help end the problem that many countries face when it comes to basic necessities.

@feelsomoon. I totally agree with you. But when it comes to countries solving the basic necessities problem, it will take a very very long time. see our country India has 1.2 Billion population. and that is a huge huge work in progress here.

I dont think language is a barrier. Aside writing, pictures tell an interesting story. Even videos. I see very few on steemit, why is that so ?

@purplelionjoe, When you said about an interesting story, I just remembered one that I wrote a few days ago. check it out here and let me know your thoughts.

https://steemit.com/life/@topdog/a-whistling-village-where-a-tune-is-your-name

Regarding the Videos, they take lot of bandwidth to download and watch. Most of the towns and smaller places in all developing countries, the network is slow and bandwidth is less. so instead of a seamless video, you will be buffering the video very often and soon you might lose interest.

So videos being heavy (on internet) many dont prefer it unless you have a very high speed internet in your place. then the narration style and other visual appeal also matters.

whereas writing is simple and people can take their own time to read, can come back and read again and again if they wish. so writing / blogging is always better than video. Video is good when you have lot of content and your story will be too long. I have seen videos of more than 1 hour duration here on steemit. Imagine writing a blog that runs so long. it will be a nightmare to read it.
so each have its own advantages and disadvantages. but steemit is primarily for blogs, not VLogs.

Hi, my first language is not English, but I think language should not be a big obstacle in steemit, I try to write my blog in both Chinese and English, though there are numerous grammar mistakes, I think as long as people can basically understand what I am trying to express, it should be fine and acceptable ?

@pakyeechan, I agree with your point, I did come across a few blogs where the language was sketchy and I sort of got disconnected with the subject. I am just trying to see if it can be improved .

I understand what you are saying, I think that can only be solved until Google Translate makes further improvement... you know, we can't expect everyone knows how to write English well, and that is highly unlikely to ask others to proof-read our reading everytime..

  ·  8 years ago (edited)

@pakyeechan, I agree with you, proof reading will be for extreme beginners. say a village artisan who does not know much english. not the city bred ones

For me, English will always be considered as the neutral solution, which will always work.
I currently work in Luxembourg, which is trilingual (Luxembourgish, French and German) and multicultural. (Most employees are foreigners, like me).
Although French is often used here on the streets, it has also many people not liking to use it for various reasons. English does not have an official status here, but many people speak it and prefer to use it.

@sdl1987 I agree there. because it is sort of neutral solution as you put it, it is one of the highest spoken language in the world ( though chinese Mandarin stands top in the list), It is sort of universal language I say. :)

Thank you for your thoughtful post.
However, I beg to differ.

I speak several languages, and sometimes I engage with authors of non-English posts. I like languages. Language is great.

But it is less about language in my view. There are plenty of reasonably accurate and free translation tools out there.

It is the interest in a culture that matters.
Some people are into far East cultures. I am not. So, I am not much into posts that deal with such subjects. If there was a Hindi post and I was interested in it, i surely would make the effort to run it through a translator.

Can we fault people for not being interested in Zimbabwe? Is it not for less known language speakers to make the effort to promote their language and culture by offering a multi-lingual post, or at least an English or French summary? Consider the number of languages and cultures out there. It is for the lesser known to make themselves known.

My 2 cents. 😎

ch @globocop

@globocop. I agree with your views and appreciate your thoughts. That's one positive way to look at it.

Cheers @topdog. Great post.
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I also read tinashe's blog, and I completely agree with your point. English is quite universial language, but there are still many people who don't speak English. I'm a Korean, and many Korean bloggers have realized the same issue. So there is an ongoing discussion in Korean group about how we can help good Korean contents translated into English. As much as it's good for the blogger to learn English themselves, it's not an easy task to master another language good enough to write. I hope good translators could play a role here. Thanks topdog for bringing up this issue.

@bree1042, thanks. Glad that you liked it.