Game of Flags - a &quot;fun&quot; Redistribution Game - WIN STEEM by flagging

gtg (70) · 8 years ago

Hi @beanz, I have just upvoted your post, but I am not going to flag @steemsports. I am not going to upvote their content either. Probably never did that. I am not interested in such content, but also I am not considering their actions as an abuse.
Flagging is not a solution. Making better content is. Unfortunately, that is not my field of expertise ;-)

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3 votes

beanz (68) · 8 years ago

I just want to note here that by flagging highly rewarded content, you would be redistributing the reward pool to everything else. This makes the system more fair and keeps more people satisfied with their own rewards.

The flag is not a weapon. It is a redistribution tool.

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skeptic (57) · 8 years ago

So you are telling everyone to flag out of subjective reasons?
Its not only for abuse?
Is it a flag or a downvote?

This is a major thing, so please let me know.
If it is not only for abuse I will stop making posts about flaggots, I will however start up a flagging guild to start the flagging wars off.
Please let me know.

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smooth (70) · 8 years ago

So you are telling everyone to flag out of subjective reasons?

Yes, everything is subjective.

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skeptic (57) · 8 years ago

Sweet!
Now please stop abuseing me as if you keep it up I will be in the right to flag you as of the "rules of smooth" and only thing you could do about it is support me in doing so unless you are hypocritical.

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walden (65) · 8 years ago

You have no idea what you are talking about, by flagging something you are using your own voting power as much as you free up, sum zero Triona, you still dont know how the system works after 5 months?????? You are not redistributing anything.

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stellabelle (75) · 8 years ago

The thing is, the flag will always be viewed as a weapon.

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smooth (70) · 8 years ago

Could not agree more.

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whatsup (75) · 8 years ago

So, if I flagged you for subjective reasons, you would be fine with that? This is not a threat, but a question.

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smooth (70) · 8 years ago (edited)

People are going to do what they do, especially when it comes to blockchains and the internet. I can't control it nor will I let it have a huge emotional impact on me. At worse, if I find the environment not to be to my liking, I can and will leave, but even that isn't terribly likely on the basis of someone's opinion to flag something.

If you, me, or someone else have differences of opinion about something, we can discuss it and/or the blockchain and voting algorithms will sort it out. Or if we're not okay with that, we can leave. We don't need to turn it into a war (of words or otherwise).

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whatsup (75) · 8 years ago

I don't wage wars I have no chance of winning. I wish people would keep their flags to themselves. The more power you have the more responsibility you have to the community. To the ideal of free speech, or censorship resistant.
People don't have to leave if they don't like it. They can try to speak and use their influence, reason and hope that people are "big" enough to at least consider a different perspective.

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smooth (70) · 8 years ago (edited)

[nested reply]

To the ideal of free speech, or censorship resistant.

I never supported the idea of unconditionally hiding posts based on flags/downvotes. I consider it a form of censorship and would like to see it either removed, or made a configurable option (as was recently done for NSFW; a huge improvement). When I downvote, I do so for the purpose of expressing my opinion on how rewards should be allocated. Sometimes I'm voting using the CLI wallet which expresses votes as a number between -100 to 100. The flag icon and hiding are features of the steemit.com UI which don't exist on the blockchain and I decline to consider as a constraint on how I choose to transact with the system.

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whatsup (75) · 8 years ago

Nods, that is clear and a position I can respect.

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smooth (70) · 8 years ago (edited)

nested reply to @beanz

Well then around 50% of the SP from the rewards pool goes and stays with @steemsports. If you don't see that as problematic then I have little faith in your judgement.

It is not really an easy call. They've built a real team, with developers, a brand, a following on the site, a dedicated UI, and a marketing and business plan, all of which is based on Steem and promotes Steem to people not already on the site.

To be clear I have given them feedback suggesting to distribute some of the SP in some manner (such as season-long contests or special bonus events or something), but at the same time when I look at their account and I see a value of $16,607, and I think about the amount of time and effort that has gone into it along with what is being done, to me it appears they are bringing that much value and more to Steem.

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screenname (66) · 8 years ago

This post has been ranked within the top 25 most undervalued posts in the second half of Dec 23. We estimate that this post is undervalued by $7.89 as compared to a scenario in which every voter had an equal say.

See the full rankings and details in The Daily Tribune: Dec 23 - Part II. You can also read about some of our methodology, data analysis and technical details in our initial post.

If you are the author and would prefer not to receive these comments, simply reply "Stop" to this comment.

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3 votes

sneak (64) · 8 years ago

Abuse is subjective. I don't think you should flag things simply because you don't like them.

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richardcrill (67) · 8 years ago

Then why did you flag kyusho's comment on my post? It was a good comment. Absolutely no reason to flag it!!!

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sneak (64) · 8 years ago

If you have to ask, my explanation won't mean anything to you.

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richardcrill (67) · 8 years ago

You're probably right. Because you explanation would be bullshit.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago (edited)

Abuse is subjective. I perceive vote buying to be abuse. Isn't the flag for downvoting things we perceive as abuse?

Vote buying defeats the whole purpose of what we are doing here. Curation means nothing with vote buying. Our voices mean nothing because nobody values their vote. People keep saying "the markets decide" but it's quite clear that if people who will voice that they do not agree with something but they will not vote against it then the market is not deciding. They refuse to decide because they either perceive the downvote as some kind of attack or because they feel their vote can always be countered.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the flag was introduced before the voting scale. I could understand when I came to the platform first why the downvote was changed to a flag since any downvote by a whale could send a post straight to $0.00. But originally the downvote was used almost as frequently as the upvote to decide whether a post should be rewarded more or less.

Now since we have that scale, I think the flag should come back down - though it may be too late to change people's perceptions of the downvote now since it's been a flag for so long.

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smooth (70) · 8 years ago

Originally there were up and down buttons like reddit. It was changed to a flag icon for nebulous reasons that I never was particularly convinced were a good idea. Yes I think all of this predates the vote slider but many of us always used the cli for lower strength votes when necessary.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

Would it be a crazy idea to have both up/down votes for curation plus a front end gimmicky like/dislike or agree/disagree option to diminish this association of a downvote with a kick in the teeth ?

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smooth (70) · 8 years ago (edited)

That is one reason I have not been convinced about the flag icon. It reinforces the kick-in-the-teeth aspect, which doesn't seem well-suited to a decentralized system. When you flag or report something on a centralized system that means bringing it to the attention of the operator who decides what to do about it, which can also include using its discretion and authority to temporarily or permanently ban the person doing the flagging/reporting for abuse of the feature. That concept makes no sense here. All we have are people expressing their opinions, and I don't see how attaching a value judgment on opinions at the UI level with an icon makes a lot of sense. Better to just leave it value neutral and let the blockchain use the resulting consensus to allocate rewards. That is my view at least.

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feelinggood (38) · 8 years ago (edited)

That would work, I think, if down-votes were to all have equal weight on the payout hit that they cause.

I, personally, am not that fond of the idea that I can get hundreds of up-votes, meaning that a large portion of the community finds my content valuable, only to have one or two whales show up and flag it down to little payout, or, better yet, becoming "invisible" due to the overall vote weight swinging to the negative.

IMO, a fairer way to do the flagging mechanism would be to take the average voting weight of all prior voters and make that the down vote weight. Or, if we must retain incentive for higher SP even with the flag, then give dolphins the equivalent of two down-votes, whales three, and mega-whales four....or something along those lines. It's ridiculous to me that a post can get 10+ up-votes and still be made invisible to the public by one whale flagging it.

I don't think the majority of people uploading content onto YouTube would appreciate having their video thumbed up thousands of times only to have one or two people come in and cast tens of thousands of down-votes. I don't care if those one or two individuals happen to be Jesus Christ and the Laughing Buddha, themselves, people aren't going to take it well, they're probably going to become frustrated by it very quickly and leave the site for good.

Yes?

Of course.

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ats-david (74) · 8 years ago

If you haven't read this, I would recommend that you take a look at it and the comments. There's no reason to flag. Just ignore it and move on. We should be building up/expanding the community, not fighting over content preferences.

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7 votes

beanz (68) · 8 years ago (edited)

Comment removed

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ats-david (74) · 8 years ago

I remember reading your post and I thought it was garbage but note that I did not flag it.

How kind of you.

Your post says "I am entitled to vote this up because it is what I am interested in but you are not entitled to vote it down because ... well because it is what I am interested in."

I think you should probably re-read the post. You can flag whatever you want to flag. It's probably not a good idea though, considering what usually happens.

You think your message is to respect the interests of others but you're doing the exact opposite by telling people how to vote (or not vote).

I never told anyone how to vote. People can vote however they choose. But if you insist on believing that flagging content is a good idea because you don't like the content, then feel free to do so. It's your own reputation that will likely suffer for it.

...even if those who disapprove consider it harmful to the community.

I think this very post is more harmful to the community than anything that @steemsports does - or anything that I do. (Again, you might want to re-read my post and try to understand what it is that I and others are trying to do.) But note, however, that I have not flagged your post or encouraged others to flag it. Although, if the idea is to be abrasive and insult people in addition to buying flags, I might reconsider. I think we could both agree that this wouldn't be good for you, right?

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

Apology left on your post.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

But note, however, that I have not flagged your post or encouraged others to flag it.

I see that you brought my post to the whales channel on steemit.chat. Thank you for the honesty.

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ats-david (74) · 8 years ago

What "whales channel?" Are you referring to the price channel? If so, there are many people there and we discuss many topics.

Perhaps this post just wasn't a very smart idea? Surely you knew that before you posted it. Accept some responsibility.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

I take full responsibility. I'm just making note here on the blockchain that you like to say one thing and do another.

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ats-david (74) · 8 years ago (edited)

(Nesting limit)

Yeah - you can believe whatever you want to believe, but I never asked anyone to flag your post. Sharing a link with others isn't "encouraging flagging." You getting flagged was a result of trying to buy flags. Looks like you attracted the wrong buyers.

You lose more credibility with each new post. You probably should have stopped while you weren't too far behind.

Good luck. I'll be sure to not follow you and refrain from upvoting you in the future.

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whatsup (75) · 8 years ago (edited)

Hi @beanz,
This is an interesting post, and there has been a lot of discussion about @steamsports lately. I voted for your post, but I am not going to flag anyone. I do think it was a brave post and I want to leave some feedback.

I have mixed feelings about Steemsports and I will try to explain why.
I have made a decision to not vote for the Up and Down Games whether it be sports or even worse, let's compare these two people physically. I don't care for this idea at all. I want to use my vote to encourage more content I am interested in. (Which is a bit of a joke, because even at 4k SP, my vote doesn't mean much.)

On the good side of Steemsports is it does keep users engaged in the community who aren't bloggers and it gives them a chance to earn some steem. Without Steemsports we might have lost some of those users.

I do not know if they "manage" how many posts they do a day, but that would be helpful, if it wasn't so often.

The good news is I think the Free Market it going to handle it. There are now too many people trying to cash in on the idea, and it gets boring.

Great thoughtful post. Thank you for hitting post on it. :) Resteemed for discussion reasons.

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3 votes

beanz (68) · 8 years ago

Thank you @whatsup. Personally, I think the free market is failing to handle it because people are failing to see any value in their vote - whether that be for upping or lowering a reward. (Just as you've said just now)

Thank you for the resteem too :)

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whatsup (75) · 8 years ago

That is a good point. I hope that people will feel like they can comment honestly on their thoughts on this post. It would be good to get a feel for how people think about Steemsports. I know there are some who really value it, and find it is a good way to build some steem. I don't want to lose those people before we get a better solution to gambling on SteemIt.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

Yes and that's the trouble I guess... We don't really hear the voices of those who give up and go (and when we do we don't want to hear them).

Sane people who conclude that the system is rigged would just leave and not come back. That's what I believe is happening and I strongly doubt that steemsports is keeping people active.

I used to work in a bookies and I can imagine showing this to my punters. They might show some interest until they find out how much people are winning (nothing) and then even they would lose interest and these are people lived in that shop when I worked there spending 50c to a euro at a time.

It will never attract new users unless they come to write for them.

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whatsup (75) · 8 years ago

Agreed there is little to no value in gaining new users, perhaps some value in retaining some that are here and frustrated though.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

Yes. Retaining them until they leave out of that frustration.

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stellabelle (75) · 8 years ago

I voted for you post because I think critical voices are necessary to make things better here, but I am not going to flag their posts. I've never voted nor flagged anything by steemsports and I think in time it will get sorted out, as Dan as mentioned that he doesn't think steemsports works on this platform in an optimal way. I feel that steemsports definitely cheapens this platform and perhaps a different offshoot would serve it better.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

Unfortunately Dan isn't the boss. The stake holders decide and they have been deciding by selling their votes cheap.

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skeptic (57) · 8 years ago

So you are telling everyone to flag out of subjective reasons?
Its not only for abuse?
Is it a flag or a downvote?

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4 votes

beanz (68) · 8 years ago

Lol. It is for abuse but abuse is subjective. You can start your flag war for what you subjectively feel is abuse, but being aware that others may see your use of the flag as abuse - hence why this post has been flagged.

But to be honest, you do seem to be using the word flaggot wrong. "Flaggot", if I'm not mistaken came from the use of flags on YouTube videos where once flagged, the video is reported and extremely difficult to get back on the site. On steemit the flag doesn't do that at all. The most it can do is put your post to the back of the line, where it's d difficult to see it - but not impossible.

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skeptic (57) · 8 years ago

Unfornatly some people find abuse in anything.
It is a subjective term and to say the flag can be used for subjective reasons makes it a problem. I find offence to the letter "r" and anyone that uses it is abusing me, so I can now flag anything with the letter "r" in it and be in the right not the wrong correct?

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inertia (73) · 8 years ago

I agree, flags are not specifically an attack, the way I see it. I consider a flag when I see content that brings no value to the platform. Abuse brings no value to the platform. Vote-buying is abuse. I can totally see the argument that @steemsports has a vote-buying component.

But I wouldn't characterise @steemsports as vote-buying. Is it 50% vote-buying and 50% something else? Is it 10% vote-buying and 90% something else? I don't know. I don't even know what the threshold is to characterise something as vote-buying.

Bottom line, I think @steemsports brings value to the platform, in spite of having a vote-buying component.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

If they redistribute the rewards to people who upvote it then people like me (who never reads the posts) will upvote it just to get the steem back. That is definitely 100% vote buying as I am 100% vote selling for steem in return. The whole point of the curation rewards is to buy your attention and encourage people to vote for valuable content. Steemsports encourages you to vote for them. Twice. Four times a day. Every day. Regardless of whether you like the content or not.

Bottom line, I think @steemsports brings value to the platform, in spite of having a vote-buying component.

That's why I don't think they need to buy your vote.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

Here's one of my favourite vote buying apologies from back in the day.
https://steemit.com/steemit/@steve-walschot/how-my-best-intentions-almost-lead-to-a-flagged-account-by-smooth

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smooth (70) · 8 years ago (edited)

Could not agree more. 'Vote buying' is a potentially problematic practice, when it doesn't contribute sufficient value. But then so is any sort of voting that doesn't relate to sufficient value. It is all subjective and those of us who believe that steemsports is adding value express our opinion by voting for it. Half the time or more I don't even bother to vote on the games so they aren't "buying" my vote, it is freely given based on my view of the value they bring, regardless of whether or not there is a vote-buying component. In their particular case, I happen to believe that even the vote-buying itself adds value because the way it is structured and the manner in which it is participatory and makes it a useful service for both entertainment and redistribution. I respect that @beanz may disagree.

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schattenjaeger (71) · 8 years ago

Flagged for basically flag buying.

Vote buying is considered abuse because when someone purely buys votes, the assumption is that he adds nothing else to the community. This is not the case with Steemsports, which a lot of people seem to enjoy.

In fact, you yourself are basically incentivizing malicious behavior, hence the flag.

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4 votes

skeptic (57) · 8 years ago

If it is a flag used for subjective reasons and not abuse I will be starting up a flag guild. Would u want to join? Also is this post not saying that we should flag it? Im thinking it is.
:O

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

"incentivising malicious behaviour" suggests that 4 months ago you considered the downvote to be maliscious.

The irony.

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schattenjaeger (71) · 8 years ago

My view on the downvote has changed over time, yes. I've even said as much "on the blockchain".

But what I meant was that, to an outsider, the mafia type blackmailing of "pay me to stop flagging you" would seem ridiculous.

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schattenjaeger (71) · 8 years ago

I actually thought I was replying to something completely different, and got my stuff mixed up. :D

Anyway, I'm not sure why you feel the need to be snarky when I've actually just come to agree with you on something. That being the downvote.

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surfermarly (74) · 8 years ago (edited)

Isn't NOT voting the common way to NOT add value to a certain content - hence to express our disagreement? Isn't the decision to NOT transfer Steem Power to an author the way we are able to express that we don't like or don't wanna support a specific content? I've always thought that a flag is an 'alarm system' only to be used in 'emergency situations' when a certain content could be a threat for the community (disrespect, racism etc).

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

There is a budget. When 50% of the rewards is going to one account, by not voting I am agreeing that I am OK with that. There isn't an unlimited amount of SP to transfer. As more and more rewards go to @steemsports (as each vote on top of the last gets bigger) more and more rewards are actually being taken away from everything else.

I perceive a vast majority of the rewards pool going to one account to be a serious threat to the system. You are entitled to disagree.

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surfermarly (74) · 8 years ago

I don´t disagree, just try to think about an alternative solution to flagging. Because I don´t think that it would lead to the desired effect in the long term. Your post got flagged several times, I am not sure if this was your aim here.
The smoothest way to re-establish balance would be creating more attractive content / products. If there was a really good alternative to steemsports (not only in financial but also entertaining way), the problem would disappear. Maybe the solution is not in attacking the monopoly but trying to position competitors.
steemsports isn´t actually my thing since I am interested in other type of content, but I comprehend the attraction.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

It was expected. I don't think the system works without the downvote. As a curator we decide if something should be rewarded more or less. It seems the consensus is to only vote things up, but ignore anything that it says right there in the whitepaper not to ignore.

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smooth (70) · 8 years ago (edited)

50% of the rewards are not going to steemsports. I doubt that is even the gross amount (not 100%) sure, but beyond that, to be accurate you would have to subtract the portion that is redistributed not only to the voters on the posts but also the authors and editors who contribute to each post and get a share of the rewards.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

You're right, that was a thoughtless exaggeration.

Here are the top rewarded accounts of the last 30 days.

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smooth (70) · 8 years ago (edited)

Given those numbers I would guess it actually is close to 50% (post rewards over 30 days is probably something close to 160K STEEM). Still as I indicated a large portion of that does not go to steemsports itself, despite that being the first stop on its way to its eventual recipient.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago (edited)

Well then around 50% of the SP from the rewards pool goes and stays with @steemsports. If you don't see that as problematic then I have little faith in your judgement.

Another one bites the dust.. Happy Christmas.

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mallorcaman (66) · 8 years ago

Considering it... happy holidays very insightfull post. After reading if Im thinking its a good chance the writing was good.

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tommycordero (63) · 8 years ago

I am a flag virgin, haven't raised the first one because I believe in words. The distribution of rewards is achieved by voting, not flagging.

I believe flagging should be a paid feature because if you are willing to hide someone's content instead of telling them what bothers you about it, then you should invest some of your own strenght in weakening them. If you just don't like the fact that they are making so much with their content, then you make better content to cash in their place and don't vote for them.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

This is the problem. You don't realise that your flag is your vote.

You probably weren't here back in May, but back then there was no flag. There were 2 buttons next to eachother - an upvote and a downvote.

When you voted you were deciding whether a post deserved more or less rewards. Unfortunately at the time, the whales had no way to scale their vote, so when they wanted to downvote something they had to downvote at 100% which made the post invisible.

People got all stuck up about the downvoting of whales and to discourage that behaviour it was turned to a flag. But it serves the exact same function as before, only the image and perception have dramatically changed. Now people see the downvote as an attack.

Now that we have the vote scale I believe down-voting should be seen the same as upvoting. It should be valued as an important part of the system.

The system doesn't work if we don't use it. If people are afraid to use their vote because they don't believe in the power of their vote, then the markets are NOT deciding like everybody says they are.

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tommycordero (63) · 8 years ago

When I flag someone I am not giving an opposite vote worth the negative of my upvote, I am not taking their existing rewards, I am only hiding their content so that others have a harder time voting or commenting on it, finding it, and giving them more rewards. My flag doesn't tell the author why this is happening either. The flag prevents voting by limiting exposure, it doesn't counter existing votes.

If I am going to limit someone's exposure I think it's very important they know why, otherwise it can be perceived as an attack. If someone doesn't want to use words then they should have to pay to limit themselves in order to limit others. Why can't flags have a price and whatever is collected goes back to the distribution?

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smooth (70) · 8 years ago (edited)

When I flag someone I am not giving an opposite vote worth the negative of my upvote

Actually that is exactly what it does. If you look on steemd.com under advanced view voting details you can see the weight for such downvotes/flags as being the negative of what your positive weight otherwise would be. These are added up to get the net rshares for the post.

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tommycordero (63) · 8 years ago

Thanks for the info!

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago (edited)

I am only hiding their content so that others have a harder time voting or commenting on it, finding it, and giving them more rewards.

That's completely untrue. You are in fact lowering the rewards making the exact opposite of an upvote and unless you vote the post to $0.00, you are not hiding the post so that others can't find it.

it doesn't counter existing votes.

It absolutely does.

If I am going to limit someone's exposure I think it's very important they know why

So leave a comment explaining why.

Why can't flags have a price and whatever is collected goes back to the distribution?

They do have a price. An upvote gives a curation reward. A downvote gives no reward. You only have so many votes before your curation rewards become diluted. Therefore the downvote is the cost of an upvote which pays you. Also, if you don't get the curation reward, then it is distributed to everyone else.

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tommycordero (63) · 8 years ago

unless you vote the post to $0.00, you are not hiding the post so that others can't find it.

I didn't know this

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jamesbrown (62) · 8 years ago (edited)

@beanz description of what the flagging mechanism is intended for:

This is the problem. You don't realise that your flag is your vote.

Flagging description, when you click on the flag button, here on Steemit:

Flagging a post can remove rewards and make this material less visible. The flag should be used for the following:

Fraud or Plagiarism
Hate Speech or Internet Trolling
Intentional miscategorized content or Spam

According to Steemit's description, you're wrong. That description says nothing about content quality or even vote-buying. It "flags" dishonesty and vileness.

You vote with your upvotes and you essentially downvote by passing on voting-up a post. Hence, the community, at large, decides what content is worth and people whom misuse flags rightfully get punished for their ignorance/ malice.

Intentional or not, you're spreading misinformation and people that start to implement your suggestion(s) about how to properly use the flag are likely to suffer from doing so, unless they happen to be a whale...I think everyone realizes by now that they're essentially untouchable.

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walden (65) · 8 years ago

Jesus Triona, you never learn....

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lifeworship (66) · 8 years ago

i despise sports. i think it is a waste of time and life. i think it is a destructive force in society. i do not gamble either.

many people find it to be a positive social experience, and method of relaxation. even gambling can be fun for some if it is not an addiction.

i have not found overwhelming evidence that the drawbacks outweigh the benefits. i prefer to live and let live.

as for vote buying, i have seen very few instances, not enough to concern me. compared to other abuses i see on steemit, the prevalence of vote buying pales. the 100 cheat-ahs gang and steemcleaners do more damage to steemit than anything else i've seen except whale vote trading. whales playing "you vote me, i'll vote you" with each other, is not increasing the value of content here.

if this were an actual free market, and SP were not in an unending nosedive, i might be concerned about vote buying. i'm trying to prioritize. how about whales using multiples to upvote themselves? is that worse than vote buying? i think it is. the same with multiples used in flagging, like the cheat-ah gang.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago (edited)

i despise sports. i think it is a waste of time and life. i think it is a destructive force in society.

OK. While much of your comment interests me, this is the funniest opinion I have ever heard. But thank you for voicing it. As an aerialist and certified fitness instructor I have to disagree. I mean I've heard people say gambling is destructive but sports?.... OK moving on...

the 100 cheat-ahs gang and steemcleaners do more damage to steemit than anything else i've seen

While I think that steemcleaners and cheetah do more good than bad, I also partially agree with you in that they do more bad than they are sometimes willing to take responsibility for.

how about whales using multiples to upvote themselves?

Multiple accounts have the same size vote as one account. It is one vote per vest. So using more than one account to upvote yourself doesn't do anything different from upvoting yourself.

Eg. If you have 1 account with 1000 steem and I have 1000 accounts with 1 steem each then you upvote yourself and I upvote myself (with all my accounts), we both make the exact same amount of steem from the upvote.

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skeptic (57) · 8 years ago

or bots, or the fact that a whale like dan can make a post and upvote himself and it instantly makes over 5 bucks without anyone ever looking or voting on it.

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stellabelle (75) · 8 years ago

"i despise sports. i think it is a waste of time and life. i think it is a destructive force in society. i do not gamble either." EXACTLY

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heroic15397 (62) · 8 years ago

Do you also think that old people keeping their mind occupy and their body active by engaging in a competitive game of cards (or let's say boules games, it doesn't make a difference) are doing something that is destructive and wasteful to their lives? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've got the feeling that it's the underlying idea of competition that you dislike in sports. If so, that I would have a hard time to understand because if I had to name one essential aspect making my individual physical life worth experiencing, I would say it's competition (in the sense of struggle). To me, not being this (in)ternal realization of separation (divide) from the other (dual) is equivalent to death (not being alive). Thus, I believe sports is a fine expression of life.

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

if I had to name one essential aspect making my individual physical life worth experiencing, I would say it's competition

Personally I would say it is sport itself. In fact where I come from sport literally means fun. An Irish word for fun is 'spórt'. How could I live without fun or games?

Sport = Fun = Living

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beanz (68) · 8 years ago

This can't be real.

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