RE: There is NO 51% Attack in Steem. Is there? Help! Dan! :D

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There is NO 51% Attack in Steem. Is there? Help! Dan! :D

in steemtron •  5 years ago 

Yes I know what PoS here is used for compared to the "real PoS".
I still didn't know that Steem/EOS/Bitshare use a 2phase protocol that collects two quorums from the majority (2f+1) of witnesses (I will have to read up on this).
In the end that would make it a permissioned blockchain.

HotStuff is like PBFT, it has partial synchrony and is still linear (an adaptation of it will be used in Libra afaik).

steemtron
5 years ago by

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      ·  5 years ago 

    In this paper they assume DPoS got 51% as well:
    https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/8400278/

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      [-]
        ·  5 years ago (edited)

      It is a permissioned Blockchain this is Vitaliks critique

      Dan's EOS achieves its high scalability by relying on a small number of what are essentially master nodes of a consortium chain, removing Merkle proofs and any other protections that would allow regular users to audit any part of the system's execution unless they want to personally run a full node themselves. See http://vitalik.ca/general/2017/05/08/coordination_problems.html for why I think this is undesirable.

      Du meinst weil die Witnesses im Rundverfahren arbeiten und an den LIB ansetzen ist es kein 2Phasen Quorum? Warum skaliert es dann nicht in der Anzahl der Validatoren. Werde es auch nochmal durchlesen. Super Einwand

      @anonymint

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        [-]
          ·  5 years ago 

        Hast du mir den Link zum whitepaper wo das beschrieben ist?

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          [-]
            ·  5 years ago 

          das ist nur ein reddit Eintrag von Vitalik Buterin welchen er auf seinem Blog ausführt.

          Hier spricht Larimer selber über 2f + 1

          We then introduced a new concept known as the Last Irreversible Block (LIB). This is a block which has been confirmed by ⅔ or more of the elected block producers. No node will automatically switch to a fork that isn’t built on top of the LIB.

          Wo soll der Schwellenwert herkommen wenn es kein klasisches Quorum ist. Ich bin überfragt. Hoffentlich findest du was raus

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            [-]
              ·  5 years ago 

            Confirmed ist wahrscheinlich wenn ein witness ueber dem block nen anderen block produced hat. Dass ein block von weniger confirmed sein kann heisst das es kein quorum haben kann.

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                ·  5 years ago (edited)

              Ja stimmt das wäre dann ein solcher Minority-Fork. Aber hier produziert die Minderheit einen Block nur alle 9 Sekunden und verliert das Rennen um die längste Kette.

              sry ich habe ganz vergessen es gibt ja ein missing Whitepaper von Larimer zu dPOS:

              To help explain this algorithm I want to assume 3 block producers, A, B, and C. Because consensus requires 2⁄3 + 1 to resolve all cases, this simplified model will assume that producer C is deemed the tie breaker. In the real world there would be 21 or more block producers. Like proof of work, the general rule is that longest chain wins. Any time an honest peer sees a valid strictly longer chain it will switch from its current fork to the longer one.

              🤯
              das meint Gün Sirer mit hybrid es nutzt longest chain rule und ist kein Quorum im klassischen Sinne aber ein permissioned consortium welches im Round robin verfahren Blöcke produziert, dann ergibt sich doch 2f+1

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                [-]
                  ·  5 years ago 

                Ja, im Endeffekt sehe ich aber nicht wie das quadratisch messages hat. Es gibt halt nen broadcast von jedem block producer per instance, aber das ist immer noch nicht quadratisch (per round). Ich denke das problem ist halt dass bei 100 nodes, der broadcast ne weile dauert und evtl nicht schnell genug bei #100 ankommt. Gossip wuerde das noch langsamer machen (allerdings mit less messages).

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                  [-]
                    ·  5 years ago 

                  hast ja auch recht, habs editiert. Der Flaschenhals kommt wohl von der 3 Sekunden Blockzeit. Wäre die Frage ob die echt von dem Netzwerk Delay kommt (kenn mich da garnicht aus). Bei Bitcoin ist es ja die Difficulty als Zeitersatz die es auf 10 minuten konvergieren lässt. Klar 3 Sekunden klingt schon nach Übertragung wirst Recht haben. Problem gelößt danke 👍

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                    [-]
                      ·  5 years ago 

                    habe auch etwas gelernt :)

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                      1 vote