SteemWorld Support tomorrow ON or OFF?

freddio (61) · 5 years ago

i think we need % votes for SPS.

Because Return Proposal is like a downvote for other project. But maybe you only want to vote 50% for return and 100% for a project.

This should be changed in the future. And solve the barrier for devs.

The system should be efficent in the future.

Imagine if 100 devs would build amazing Stuff. Without % Vote it will never happen.

$1.92

14 votes

smooth (70) · 5 years ago

I agree with % votes on SPS and I'm pretty sure the developers agree as it was mentioned at Steemfest as something they see the need for.

$1.38

11 votes

abh12345 (76) · 5 years ago

Keep going man. Sadly you wont be able to rely on the SPS, like every other proposal, and if you need to peruse (multiple) other methods to make ends meet I'm confident you'll get support.

I think becoming open source will help and perhaps making that a priority above new features is the best plan for now.

Have a good weekend.

$1.90

13 votes

z8teyb289qav9z (70) · 5 years ago

You fucking suck.

$1.86

fredrikaa (70) · 5 years ago (edited)

Should I take it from the Posting Rewards Pool or the SPS Fund or should I start a witness node? You decide.

You should either make Steemworld open-sourced or find your own sustainable business model for your project.

Then you will also have my votes on your posts and proposals.

Edit: Comment upvoted at 5 seconds for visibility, meaning all rewards are returned to the pool.

$1.51

felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

You can already download a local version. That is the full source. Download it, inspect it.

He is working on a github release which will be licensed 'open source', as stated in the proposal, that will be spring next year. I have no reason to not trust him.

themarkymark (78) · 5 years ago

$0.00

felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

https://unminify.com/

$0.00

themarkymark (78) · 5 years ago

On mobile but usually you are still stuck with poorly named functions and variables making it a nightmare to work with.

$0.00

8 votes

felixxx (68) · 5 years ago (edited)

It looks ok to me, and the confusing function names could also pop up in 'well documented' code :)

Bottom line: the source is accessible.
I was not even aware it was minified like this, though. It will be on github soon under what I understand is an open source license - that was my main point.

edit: well, I looked at it again and it is not readable. Still, I have no reason to doubt it will be open sourced soon.

$0.00

smooth (70) · 5 years ago

The main problem is that the Return Proposal was voted way to high

No, the problem is that many of the proposals are not that compelling, for example, not open source. There are a number of stakeholders who believe that most work paid for by SPS should be open source to ensure that Steem receives full benefit from the expenditure.

It is not a hard and fast rule (nothing is; everything is up to voters) but it is the number one reason I've heard for why some proposals aren't supported, including yours.

$1.43

steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

It is not a hard and fast rule (nothing is; everything is up to voters) but it is the number one reason I've heard for why some proposals aren't supported, including yours.

My proposal received more votes than any other and in terms of voted SP it is still within the top positions. So it's not a problem related to lack of support. As I stated, the Return-Proposal was moved 3.6 M SP up (over night by one single voter, a top witness), so that mine does no longer receive funds.

$0.41

10 votes

smooth (70) · 5 years ago (edited)

That's the nature of voting. There is more stake in favor of not funding your proposal than funding it. The solution is to make your proposal more compelling.

It is absolutely intended that people may increase votes on return in order to de-fund undesired proposals, change votes to attempt to reorder proposals in terms of priority, etc. Or even just change one's mind about what is worth funding. The voting is dynamic.

$0.24

steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

That's the nature of voting.

If we would have more big stakeholders, I would fully agree, but as it is now, I would change that statement to 'That's the nature of top witnesses voting' :)

There is more than enough in the pot already to fund more proposals and it keeps growing quite well. If those SBD are not being used for projects, I'm asking myself why we don't build kind of an automated 'burn STEEM machine' to at least support the price a bit in the meantime.

I don't think that there will appear many more interesting/expensive proposals any time soon, so in my opinion, with the given funding barrier, the pot will just keep growing without any relevant benefits for us.

$0.39

9 votes

smooth (70) · 5 years ago (edited)

If we would have more big stakeholders

We do have a lot of big stakeholders. Out of 16 million SP votes on return, only the top 3 votes are over 1 million, and those total about 6 million. The majority of the votes are from a large number of smaller accounts.

Even more to the point, setting aside Steemit Inc, there is probably something like 150 million SP and another 100 million STEEM which could potentially power up. There is an enormous amount of additional stake which could vote, far, far more than return.

In other words, make your proposal more compelling.

the pot will just keep growing without any relevant benefits for us.

There is no inherent benefit from solely from spending money. If stakeholders aren't convinced that the benefits are worth the costs, we are better off not spending it and avoiding even more Steem (whether in the form of STEEM or SBD) flooding the market and driving the price down.

If the proposals are compelling I have no reluctance to support them, but if they aren't, then I'd rather take the benefit in lower inflation.

we don't build kind of an automated 'burn STEEM machine' to at least support the price a bit in the meantime.

I'm all in favor of that in fact that's why I run @burnpost and vote for it. That being said, keeping the funds in the SPS treasury has similar benefit (not being sold on any market), plus a bit more flexibility to fund compelling future proposals, should they be made. For example, at Steemfest a lot of people noted the lack of good proposals for marketing and other community building. I agree and I will look for these proposals to support. But I still won't support them if the proposal itself isn't strong.

$0.55

steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

Ok, thanks for your enlightening answers and for upvoting my hidden comments. I'm currently not sure, which way to choose now, but I will do my best to find one that works for me.

Even if there is not much new to discover in SteemWorld currently, I made good progress so far and I'm sure that, when I'm done with the things that are waiting in the pipeline, there will be more investors convinced about the value of my work.

Since I'm a purely creative coder, I'm having a hard time with presenting planned features. Most of the SteemWorld has been built intuitively in a creative flow without much planning and this is how I function best.

$0.32

17 votes

felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

The way things are looking right now, I recommend you post for rewards.

I would also recommend to cooperate with a witness, rather than running a witness node, because that is just another can of worms.
But from what I understand, you do not consider this an option, and prefer to work all on your own.

If you want to stay away from chatrooms and meetups that is fine, but it could help with monetization/funding of your projects. Perhaps you need to team up for this too; You could have a far worse product, if you had better marketing/networking, you would make more from it, still.

And lastly: times are tough for steem right now. The price graph looks terrible. When we had funds to distribute, we gave them to all sorts of disloyal golddiggers and now that good projects form, we lack the funds to support those.

Personally, I would recommend you get a different job and to not rely on steem to pay your monthly bills. I wish it was different, but it would seem the most 'grounded' approach to me.

Komm doch mal in den Discord :(

$0.50

steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago (edited)

I need to think about all this for some time. As they now even begin to flag developers like me on here, I'm currently not sure, if this is still the place where I want to be. I'm glad that a missing slice of the puzzle has revealed itself today though (I guess you know what I mean).

Forcing developers to open source everything in the way it happens here made me thinking. This has nothing to do with freedom and pushing creative energy. Many professional game developers would never make their games open source, because of security/manipulation reasons, so they also won't be able to use the SPS for funding. Always the same few mighty blockades at the top.

To me it looks like I'm selling years of work for 77 SBD a day to those people, only to get the proposal funded. Maybe I will stop the proposal and continue to work freely on SteemWorld again.

Need some rest now...

$0.27

13 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkPGlVqqEP0

felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

You are making this unnecessarily hard for your supporters.

'I am not sure ... flagging developer like me ... forcing open source ... '
That is how girls talk.

You want more money for your work and I support that, but please be more straightforward and do not go that passive aggressive route. If the proposal does not get approved, you will need to find other methods and being emotional will only alienate those who want to help you and will not serve you well.
That attitude is what made you a target for the bully in the first place.

I only supported the proposal, after I found the open source part in it, btw. Other than that, I am just here fighting for the underdog. Nothing personal. If you want to discuss the matter further, I still recommend Discord.

$0.88

steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

Yes, you are right. This shit is making me go crazy. I just want to continue to work on SteemWorld now and I definitely need more distance to all the drama. I lost at least one day through all this and slept very badly, so it's really time to come back to my real self now.

$0.10

surpassinggoogle (76) · 5 years ago

Yes back to your real self. Some haven’t slept in years. You did work on steemworld before now.

$0.20

jaki01 (74) · 5 years ago

I have to agree with that, it's a good advice.

$0.00

smooth (70) · 5 years ago (edited)

Forcing developers to open source everything in the way it happens here made me thinking

Nope, no one is forced to open source anything. The expectation of many stakeholders is that if you want US to pay you to develop it, we want to see open source.

If you want to fund your own development or raise capital from your own investors like any other startup, you can do whatever you want.

EDIT: upvoted parent for visibility

$0.00

jaki01 (74) · 5 years ago

The expectation of many stakeholders is that if you want US to pay you to develop it, we want to see open source.

As far as I know not stake holders are paying here but rewards for the projects are taken from the rewards pool. It's true that stakeholders distribute the funds by their votes ...

$0.89

smooth (70) · 5 years ago

Reward pools are funded by inflation, which is a tax on stakeholders. It doesn't just appear magically at no cost to anyone.

$0.00

jaki01 (74) · 5 years ago (edited)

It is a tax on all users. Especially also now content creators 'pay' with lower post rewards - so they also 'fund' the SPS.
I don't say you are wrong, but inflation which hits everybody is not the same as if a view stakeholders would fund any project directly from their own money.

And: inflation impacts you anyway, if you vote for any proposal or not.

$0.00

smooth (70) · 5 years ago (edited)

It is a tax on all users

No it is not. If you have literally no STEEM or SP (which is possible, since zero SP accounts now get some RC allowance), neither the value of your stake nor your share of ownership of the total supply declines as a result of inflation.

For everyone else, the effect is proportional. Someone with 1000x more stake is paying 1000x more.

Especially also now content creators 'pay' with lower post rewards

No, stakeholders pay all content rewards via inflation too. Content creators receive content rewards. There is a huge difference. What happened with the enacting of SPS was that a share of inflation that stakeholders pay to content rewards was shifted to SPS. Either way it is still stakeholders paying it.

inflation impacts you anyway, if you vote for any proposal or not.

Sure, but I'm absolutely going to vote in a manner that I believe spends (or does not immediately spend) those inflationary rewards in the manner that gets stakeholders the best value for the cost. If i lose the vote, fair enough, I can sell my stake or accept the disagreement and recognize that you win some and lose some.

$0.03

jaki01 (74) · 5 years ago (edited)

For everyone else, the effect is proportional. Someone with 1000x more stake is paying 1000x more.

Of course I mean everybody else. :)
But there are also 1000 x more small accounts than big ones, which all also pay the inflation - which is altogether quite a lot. Of course we can also call them 'stakeholders', too, but I guess you had big stakeholders in mind when you wrote that stakeholders pay the inflation.

And of course you have a higher risk the higher your stake is, but also a higher chance to make profit, if the STEEM price rises (that's why you originally invested money, I guess).

There is a huge difference.

Yes, that's why I put 'pay' in quotation marks. Content creator don't literally pay, but also contribute to the SPS by passing on a part of their possible rewards.
As (at least in in my opinion) 'content' is the unique feature of STEEM compared to other crypto currencies/blockchains and thus may become an important factor of a future increasing value of STEEM, I value time and effort, content creators invest in the platform as much as the money stakeholders invest.
Actually, I am getting maybe somwhat off topic here, but sometimes my impression is that (big) stakeholders tend to underestimate the value of 'normal little' users for the platform and the success of the blockchain.

Sure, but I'm absolutely going to vote in a manner that I believe spends (or does not immediately spend) those inflationary rewards in the manner that gets stakeholders the best value for the cost.

In your case I am absolutely convinced of that!
And even if my text above may lead to a different impression, I am very thankful that people like you invested lots of money!
However, did you read for example the comments of z8teyb289qav9z (we all know who he is) in this post: "You fucking suck."? No constructive criticism, no thoughtful weighting of words, just flags and insults. Unfortunately, not all big stakeholders act as responsible with their power as you do.

$0.00

Show 1 more reply

justineh (71) · 5 years ago (edited)

Entitled much?

It’s a good tool, like many others here on Steem, but you are not entitled for the community to pay for your closed source project. (Nor is anyone else, open or closed source).

Many tools and apps have been developed without community funds, not sure why you feel you are more entitled than them.

The SPS is designed in a way where payments are not guaranteed, and the changes in voting would make proposals funded one day and not the other. This is normal and most are taking this into consideration when making a proposal.

Are you saying that unless you are guaranteed (the very high amount you asked for), in whole, you will not continue the tool? As you have received funds.. no? This could be a good thing to clarify, as you have already collected funds and most likely will again.

Your lack of updates, clarity on what exactly you will do with funds, and posts that sounds more like guilt trips than proposals or updates aren’t the best way to go about it imo.

Maybe instead of trying to guilt people, you could actually show people why it’s something beneficial for all of Steem. And if the community decides its not, maybe you should charge those who seem to depend on it so much.. as I don’t really see it bringing people to Steem, more makes things easier for a few that are here, so perhaps you should pay for services that way if you are unhappy with the support you are receiving.

Just some friendly advice, as my goodness these posts are over the top.

$0.45

felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

Before the edit, the comment started with:

entitled much ?

$0.10

justineh (71) · 5 years ago

Yep and I have stated many times that is how it came across. I just now edited as I was informed in DM by Asher that apparently that one sentence made the rest of my comment invalid as it was “too harsh”.

I disagree with this actually, as reading the above feels very entitled, upset, and an attempt to guilt individuals, but hey.. maybe that’s just my interpretation.

So, that’s me being a dick? And is the reason your comment is saying I won’t grow one? I’m so confused by the responses here I don’t even know what to say anymore 😄

My advice - More focus on the project, and what it provides.. less focus on “woe is me” and stating personal issues as a reason that funding is entitled.. which is what my first comment stated. The rest of this is just noise.

$0.00

felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

So you can come at him all personal because he is not in your circle of buddies and now you invert the whole situation claiming to be the victim of what you did in the first place. Projection much ?

justineh (71) · 5 years ago

Oh goodness.. nope, I still think the post screams of entitlement and not the actual project itself and still stand by everything I said.

I have no circle of buddies .. and there is no projection, just honesty. Not calculated comments to try to make the other person look bad, which has nothing to do with the project, just my honest opinion.

I’ll edit the comment back to “entitled much” from the current “This feels very entitled”

I didn’t realize that change would cause such conspiracies and victim accusations.

I’ll put this here again -

My advice - More focus on the project, and what it provides.. less focus on “woe is me” and stating personal issues as a reason that funding is entitled.. which is what my first comment stated. The rest of this is just noise.

$0.00

felixxx (68) · 5 years ago (edited)

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justineh (71) · 5 years ago (edited)

No, I reworded my initial sentence due to feedback I received that it was harsh and uncalled for. Clearly your comments and others say the same.

I put it back to the original way, I think it gets my point across quite clearly. As it is a very butthurt and entitled post.

Feel free to pick out something else completely unrelated to the conversation to try to come at me with.

Edit: I guarantee you our conversation did not go the same way. I’m trying to be polite, but as I told him, I don’t feel the need to baby grown men who are butthurt. He seemed to agree with you.. and well, I don’t. So maybe you guys can chat it up.. as this most definitely wasn’t a “Marly” type situation. You clearly don’t know be very well

This conversation seems more personal than needed and your constant need to bring someone up that you apparently had an issue with confirms that. So I’ll end it here. Feel free to criticize me all you want.. but she’s not even here to weigh in at this point, so perhaps you should focus on the actual conversation at hand.

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felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

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Show 10 more replies

michelangelo3 (71) · 5 years ago

I am enthusiastic about Steempeak, the more I was shocked by your comment.

not sure why you feel you are more entitled than them

You sure? That's not how I understood the words.

(the very high amount you asked for)

Steempeak asked for 10 times more

you could actually show people why it’s something beneficial for all of Steem.

I can only say that nobody needs to explain me what benefits steempeak or steemworld have. I support both and find it very annoying to see that these two tools, that are the best for me on Steem, are not funded.

We can vote the Return Propostal even higher, so that nobody is supported anymore! That is nonsense, of course, and I would just like to call for a reasonable level. It is currently too high from my point of view.

$0.09

justineh (71) · 5 years ago (edited)

My comment has nothing to do with steempeak, it was in response to the post. Not really sure why the two are being compared.

If you support both, awesome. (I used to as well).

This post, the one above, very much comes off as entitled and a guilt trip. If you don’t read it as such, that’s fine and you can leave a comment saying so.

I’m not sure what most of what is discussed in the post has to do with his proposal like not sure how he will be “making it through the next month” or anything else there, seems more to imply that he wants to work full time on Steem (and live off of it) and is frustrated that a loss in a few days of payments due to the return proposal being voted.

I guess I don’t think it’s the communities responsibility to pay his, or anyone else’s, bills. Especially in the bear market we are in and when the price of STEEM is something we all should be concerned with, not figuring out how to suck as much of the inflation as possible out in my opinion.

If there are developments or proposals that will improve or add value to STEEM, yes they should be considered for funding. But those funds aren’t just a free for all that individuals should feel they are entitled to or that “need to be spent” - which again.. is what this post felt like.

$0.22

michelangelo3 (71) · 5 years ago

Not really sure why the two are being compared.

That's because I saw you were a member of Steempeak Team.

But you're right, it leads away from the actual question: Is the Return Propostal currently too high?

...how to suck as much of the inflation as possible out

I agree! Thank you for your point of view.

$0.00

justineh (71) · 5 years ago

Oh.. Yes, my “role” should probably come with a warning label.

My comments have nothing to do with steempeak or speak for them and I most definitely was not trying to compare the two, just like I was not comparing steemworld with any other proposals.

I’m just here, as a member of the community, pointing out issues I see in this specific situation.

Thanks for clarifying.

$0.00

olimiesma (5) · 5 years ago

People like you are the ones who complain about closed source applications, when they are using Windows, Adobe, Office, etc. and their children also work with closed software.

Hypocrites, false, liars and opportunists

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luegenbaron (64) · 5 years ago

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mundharmonika (64) · 5 years ago

Very well said, you saved me an answer! 👍🏼👌🏼

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smooth (70) · 5 years ago

Steempeak asked for 10 times more

And not funded right? Silly to bring it up. Maybe both are asking for too much (or maybe there are other reasons for not being funded). Again, it doesn't matter.

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michealb (66) · 5 years ago (edited)

what she said mostly. especially this part... maybe you should charge those who seem to depend on it so much

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justineh (71) · 5 years ago

Don’t be so negative Micheal.. sheesh.

steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago (edited)

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olimiesma (5) · 5 years ago

People like you are the ones who complain about closed source applications, when they are using Windows, Adobe, Office, etc. and their children also work with closed software.

Hypocrites, false, liars and opportunists

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smooth (70) · 5 years ago

Upvoted for visibility.

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felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

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justineh (71) · 5 years ago

No clue what this means.

Did Marly point out some issues with your bud too and you all freaked out on her? That would make sense actually....

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felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

Yeah she was being a dick too. Did not make her grow one neither, though.

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haikubot (54) · 5 years ago

Yeah she was being
A dick too. Did not make her
Grow one neither, though.

^{- felixxx}

^{^{I'm a bot. I detect haiku.}}

$0.13

felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

I always knew I was a poet.

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justineh (71) · 5 years ago

Not sure how my comment was being a dick, but ok. Yes it’s come to my attention that criticism from women on this platform is not handled well. I don’t come to the same conclusion as you though.. actually it seems those most offended by criticism might be the ones missing one.

Hey look, you got a haiku though! 😍

felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

You might not be aware, that there are no girls on the internet.

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justineh (71) · 5 years ago

Yeah she was being a dick too. Did not make her grow one neither, though.

You are the one who brought up “she’s” and growing dicks, my dear.

$0.00

revo (60) · 5 years ago

I agree that the Return Proposal is too high. What's the point of the SPS if barely anything gets funded?

$0.45

18 votes

transisto (74) · 5 years ago (edited)

It's call saving money for the future and that's what stakeholders have decided to vote on.

$1.28

revo (60) · 5 years ago (edited)

But there's no reason to think that this trend won't continue, meaning the unused funds will just get bigger and bigger. That's funds taken from the reward pool at the last HF. Those funds need to be disbursed, so as to add value to the community commensurate with the value taken away at the last HF.

By the way, is there a way to see the amount of unused funds in the SPS?

steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

There are currently 143,032.368 SBD in the pot. So there are now over 1430 SBD per day available, of which only 310 SBD are being used daily (and it keeps growing, because 10% of the rewards pool automatically goes into the fund).

You can also see this on https://steemworld.org/proposals

$0.00

9 votes

smooth (70) · 5 years ago

is there a way to see the amount of unused funds in the SPS?

The balance is in the account @steem.dao but only a maximum of 1% can be paid out per day.

But there's no reason to think that this trend won't continue, meaning the unused funds will just get bigger and bigger.

The budget is a maximum, not a guarantee. If stakeholders don't think that available proposals add more value than their costs, stakeholders are correct in not funding them. There is no guarantee there will always be more worthwhile proposals than budget. One option (which was discussed when SPS was created) is a burn proposal, but I don't think we are there yet; the funds accumulated are still reasonable and could be used for future worthy proposals, should they be made.

$0.00

steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

What's the point of the SPS if barely anything gets funded?

Good question. As all Steemians lost 10% of their voting value for posts in order to have a functioning SPS, I think it should be asked more often.

$0.34

justinashby (61) · 5 years ago

I would vote you for witness and many others as well. Your tool is a great boon to the STEEM community.
Post as much as you like you have paid your dues it isn't taking from the rewards pool man. That is EARNed STEEM. Keep with the SPS too. Freakin' do it all. I support you 100%. goes to vote for your Steem Proposal
Don't trip potato chip.

$0.29

6 votes

steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

Freakin' do it all.

Thanks, never thought about that, but would really be an option :)

$0.15

18 votes

justinashby (61) · 5 years ago

You are a good dude with hella skillz. I know you are good for it man. I mean most peeps that have major tools have witness nodes too. Your site is my favorite nav tool for txs on-chain. I trust you. I hope more people see that you give at least 2 fucks about all of us.

$0.00

glenalbrethsen (68) · 5 years ago

Hey, @steemchiller.

I really figured that this would be a slam dunk no brainer.

But then, I'm thinking about the every day STEEM user, the one who's interested in knowing what they're doing statistically, and maybe even others, and to do with it with ease of use.

I'm also thinking about those who appreciate all of the one stop shopping that has been packed into Steemworld without much compensation over the last several months, and certainly since the bear market began. I mean, there's so much that can be done now, and there's even more coming.

I was also thinking that once you were funded, you would stay funded. I didn't know that it was like being a witness where one big account could vote you in or out, or change where you were in line based on voting on something else.

I mean, I think the Return Proposal is a decent enough idea—kind of wonder why it's not just built in to the SPS in the first place, so that the Return Proposal doesn't need to be there doing whatever it is that it does sitting their approved.

So, maybe keep providing updates on top of the SPS? The whole witness thing seems like it could be more of drain on your funds than a help unless you get voted up high enough which seems to be an issue with your no-brainer Steemworld proposal on the SPS.

Why does everything have to be so dang difficult?

What's the point of doing any of this if you can't be constantly funded for the duration of the project?

I appreciate not wanting to fund unnecessary stuff, or things no one uses. Tons of us use steemworld.org, though, and everyone should.

Anyone who cares about posting, commenting or curating, and many other things STEEM-related, that is. :)

$0.28

trincowski (68) · 5 years ago

Judging how things are going, it looks like the SPS is only useful to fund the projects that the top whales support.

If that's that case, then I bet the majority of us would like to have our money back and see this SPS nonsense be thrown into the trashcan.

$0.00

glenalbrethsen (68) · 5 years ago

Hey, @trincowski.

I guess that means one always has to be in campaign mode in order to keep up with the votes that others may be getting. It also means that the bar is always being raised, and that uncertainty is the only sure thing. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do anything under those circumstances.

Taking a look at what is currently being funded, while the top three don't last more than four months, I'm not sure what they truly add to STEEM in the long run, other than some folks really want their stake liquid sooner, and others want to pay for documentation.

Number four is returning unused funds back to the SPS, which seems like the SPS should do that automatically, anyway.

I don't know. I thought I was for the SPS, but seeing it in action, it seems to be lacking something.

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trincowski (68) · 5 years ago (edited)

It's also interesting to notice that the Steemworld proposal has over 10x the votes of the top 3 proposals and yet, it's not going to be funded.

In this system, what 300 rich people want is more important than what 3000 people want... and, in my opinion, that's just dumb.

I understand that Steem is not a Democratic System but it also shouldn't be the Oligarchy it has become. 🤦‍♂️

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glenalbrethsen (68) · 5 years ago

Hey, @trincowski.

It probably needs to be a hybrid of the two—stake weight and one account one vote—but even then, who knows. I get the argument against one vote—those who have 100 alt accounts will vote 100 times. Whether or not there's enough of them to overcome 3,000 normal voters, I don't know. My recent looking at the diminishing numbers tells me that it could very well be the case. Stake weighting brings all of those accounts to bear once.

So, if we could handle some kind of know your customer without it intruding on rights, liberties, privacy, sensibilities, whatever—something encrypted, something that just the system can see—I don't know, I'm not a developer—we could solve a lot of this.

So, when the top three are no longer funded, unless people pull their votes, wouldn't Steemchiller move up by default? Wouldn't his proposal be within the bounds, unless something takes it's place? I mean, I know he doesn't want to be sitting around waiting 90-110 days, but at the very least, that's how this will work, right?

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trincowski (68) · 5 years ago (edited)

Who'd know... your scenario has just played out.

Let's see what happens because at the moment, no Proposal is being funded. 🤣

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stoodkev (69) · 5 years ago

our money back ? Did you make direct donations to @steem.dao ?
Total inflation haven't changed, so you're not paying more for this than you were pre HF.

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trincowski (68) · 5 years ago

We're all taking a 10% cut to fund... just a couple of projects. It seems to me like the same could easily be achieved with a 1% cut instead.

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stoodkev (69) · 5 years ago (edited)

That s the way it works, and it has been voted through DPoS.
More of the @steem.dao will be used when more projects satisfy the exigence of the stakeholders, it's how it's designed to work.

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trincowski (68) · 5 years ago

We're just building another Oligarchy in here, aren't we? 😂

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stoodkev (69) · 5 years ago

I believe Steem has been working by DPOS since you've joined. What changed? What alternative would you propose?
I'm not a minnow but I m not a whale either, I would love my votes to matter more than they do, but on the other hand, we have to be realistic and realize that there s no other reasonable solution to decision making.

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trincowski (68) · 5 years ago

This is just a big experience but I had the thought that the main goal of the Blockchain Technology was to free us from the old, archaic Oligarchich Models that riddle the current economic system.

If we're simply copying them and transposing those Oligarchies to the Blockchain, how are we any better? And what's the point of it all?

It's like we're fighting fire with fire. I don't believe that will achieve anything good.

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Show 2 more replies

xpilar (83) · 5 years ago

I want to vote you as a witness and I think you should do now
You have many with you and put a direct link for your witness on Steemworld.

I will also promote you if you become a witness when you are ready for it

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steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

Thank you!

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xpilar (83) · 5 years ago

👍🙂

_{Posted with}

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fundition (68) · 5 years ago

At Fundition we really appreciate what Steemworld is bringing to steem. It is by far the best explorer for Steem and we would like to invite you to start a campaign on our platform to gather more support to achieve your goals.

Best regards,

Join a community with heart based giving at its core
Fundition is a non profit project, by supporting it with delegation you are supporting 200+ projects.
50SP 100SP 200SP 500SP 1000SP 2000SP 5000SP 10000SP

$0.26

gadrian (66) · 5 years ago

I might be wrong, but maybe interest on stake escaped controversy so far... None of the other destinations of inflation.

How old is SPS? Two and a half months?

One thing is clear to me and the signal was given from SteemFest: code must be open source to receive funding from SPS.

The two projects which I use should make this a priority: becoming open source. Rather than fighting each other. When people are frustrated they say things they wish they didn't. And some are very good at pushing the right buttons to provoke such reactions.

At the same time, becoming open source doesn't happen over night. If there is a clear track record of improvements (and there is) and a commitment to make the code open source by a reasonable deadline, I don't see why SPS funding shouldn't continue (in the case of SteemWorld proposal) and start (in the case of SteemPeak proposal).

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mundharmonika (64) · 5 years ago

Very well said! 👍🏼👌🏼

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siphon (60) · 5 years ago

Should I take it from the Posting Rewards Pool or the SPS Fund or should I start a witness node? You decide.

Wenn du so nah an der Zahlungsunfähigkeit bist würde ich die empfehlen mehr an Dich selbst zu denken.
Warum nicht alle Möglichkeiten ausschöpfen die Steem allen bietet?

Deine Arbeit an Steemworld ist vorbildlich. Risikostreuung ist der Punkt um den Du dich jetzt vielleicht mehr kümmern solltest.
Es gibt Projekte die laufen entwicklungstechnisch nicht halb so gut, aber bekommen viel Rewards weil sie die Prioritäten auf ökonomischer Seite haben.

Ich finde es absolut legitim das ein verdienter Entwickler wie Du auch einen angemessenen Teil vom Kuchen abbekommt. Nichts ist wertvoller als Fachkräte die eine Sache voranbringen, wer da die Türe zu hält hat was nicht verstanden.

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trincowski (68) · 5 years ago

Do what you have to do to make ends meet. If you set up a Witness server, I'll support it. If you close the app and make it available only for subscribers, I'll support it, too.

Thanks for all of your hard work, it's highly appreciated. 😊

$0.22

6 votes

abitcoinskeptic (73) · 5 years ago

I vote for your posts, I vote for your proposal and I will probably vote for your witness.

I don't agree with removing my vote from the return proposal but I understand you wanting #clayop to remove his vote for it.

I know at the moment, clayop is really excited about that small proposal for a powerdown change which is #1. Maybe his votes are just temporary to make it stand out?

Perhaps you can encourage him of the importance of Steemworld for koreans and his other interests, too.

$0.22

luegenbaron (64) · 5 years ago

Heyho :)
Hab mal @freezepeach informiert um deinen Post und deine Kommentare von den Flags zu heilen.. :)

amico (66) · 5 years ago

@tipu curate
@giphy curate 100

A huge hug from @amico! 🤗

^{^{^{^{#sbi-skip !trdo}}}}

giphy (53) · 5 years ago

Upvoted 👌

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tipu (67) · 5 years ago

Upvoted 👌 (Mana: 5/20 - need recharge?)

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sco (64) · 5 years ago

I agree that the return proposal is too high atm.

However, I also think you should start demanding small, rather cosmetic, fees for certain services of your app, like conversions, steem engine toke claiming/staking etc. They can even be too small to really feel them, but would probably add up to a not insignificant sum.
Do you run any statistics on what operations are triggered how often via you app?

steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

Do you run any statistics on what operations are triggered how often via you app?

No, I don't run any statistics.

I also think you should start demanding small, rather cosmetic, fees for certain services of your app, like conversions, steem engine toke claiming/staking etc.

Thanks, I like the idea, but it would only be possible for operations that require an active key. The question is, if people would than still use SteemWorld for those features. I will keep your idea in mind.

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9 votes

condeas (62) · 5 years ago

I also think you should start demanding small, rather cosmetic, fees for certain services of your app, like conversions, steem engine toke claiming/staking etc.

Ich unterstütze diese Idee ;)

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stef1 (81) · 5 years ago

Hi @steemchiller, thank you for your post and for letting the people know about what is behind "Steemworld" happens. In my opinion, you created amazing program that is used by more than 90% of users of Steem community because of few features:

It reflects democracy and transparency:

You can see all the action that every user is doing: Upvoting, commenting, sel-upvoting. That feature is used by many curation communities to assess user and decided if he is fair and if he needs to be supported.
You can see any users no matter if it is the one with no Steem Power or any of "whales" Stakeholders
There is a good statistic data, you see your new followers, mentioning, that helps you to save time to search for those info.

Developing a program, it is your baby and I can imagine that you want to have your rights for it. I know from my son who is also fan of writing computer programs, he is very aware how easy it is one you showed a program that you developed in internet that could be immediately used and own by someone else who can claim that it was him who created it.

I see that there is a comment of @fundation, that is another opportunity to get financial support of your project.

Another option, if you really decide to go for witness you have my Vote and of my hubby!

There are many people who love your program and we appreciate it. I think even if you decide to charge some amount of Steem for using it, I bet many people will go for that!

Please share your ideas if there is anything we can help you to keep going with your program, we will support you!

$0.20

detlev (73) · 5 years ago

Hey @steemchiller, your tool deserve any support and I love to chat with you personal on discord about how we may help.

At least a bit of !BEER will be a start.

Your @detlev

mima2606 (69) · 5 years ago

Bin gespannt, wie es weitergeht! Du hälst uns auf den Laufenden. LG Michael

!invest_vote

commentcoin (55) · 5 years ago

You have used the Hashtag #[CC] and can now reward 557.0 comments under your post with one CC.

More information about the Commentcoin-Project can be found on this account.
Thanks for using it.

Happy comments.
Your CC-Team:
@kristall97 ([Code-Designer])
@alucian ([Project-Designer])

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dandays (67) · 5 years ago

Https://Steemworld.com is and has been for a long time now one of my favorite tools on Steem. I’m not certain what this thread has to do with Steempeak, I’m a big fan of Steempeak as well. Proposal this, SPS that, look I’ll just be real, I don’t understand that language. If you run a witness, @steemchiller, I will vote for it and, so long as Steemworld is available, it will be my first choice.

What I do understand, however, is the exact.same.names and the exact.same.wallets still bump each other’s garbage to the top while censoring legitimate concerns the community is genuinely interested in reading—some things never change. There’s no hardfork cure for that.

Thank you for all of your hard work @steemchiller.

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steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

Thanks for your input! I hope you visit steemworld~~.com~~.org ;)

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7 votes

mehta (80) · 5 years ago

You have raised the correct issue of SPC. I like the way.
I like most the steemworld.org tool. It is nice and gives details inside under-stable view in steem blockchain.
Hope you will continue this service.
These distributive things are momentary and not continue in long run. Your raised question for 10% fund in correct. Why not you get something from it, when you can developed /develop good app. Keep doing ....

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contestkings (68) · 5 years ago

Keep your chin up mate your doing a great job.

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lichtblick (78) · 5 years ago (edited)

Oh das ist aber echt nicht schön.
Resteemed :-) und pinned post on our FB group.

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stoodkev (69) · 5 years ago

I ve always tried to support your project through votes and at one point direct donation but I won't support your SPS, mainly for 2 reasons:

Your project is closed source so it is only beneficial to the community as long as you see fit or able to provide the service.
You are seldom writing about your progress.

If you would just make the project opensource and show what you re actually doing with the SPS funds, plenty of people will vote for your projects.
Cheers!

$0.09

abh12345 (76) · 5 years ago

I believe @steemchiller was reporting weekly on progress long before the SPS and perhaps since the proposal got in, his time has been spent on development over progress reports?

Agreed though, both of the points you make should help.

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felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

Your project is closed source so it is only beneficial to the community as long as you see fit or able to provide the service.

Part of the proposal is to open source the whole thing. Perhaps he should have put that in the title.

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stoodkev (69) · 5 years ago

Making it opensource it s not a task per se, he can do it first and will get more support.

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felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

You can download the source code: https://steemworld.org/download

So he only needs to publish it with a license attached to it, it seems.
I would assume he is only working on the documentation and the technicalities.

Anyways, the project is not closed source and the proposal includes open sourcing steemworld and that is the opposite of what you claimed above.

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stoodkev (69) · 5 years ago

upvoting since i dont think your comment should be hidden ...
This is not opensource code, its the same obfuscated code that I can find on my console while on steemworld.

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felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

https://unminify.com/

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stoodkev (69) · 5 years ago

Nop, wont make it human readable.

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felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

Yeah, looking at it again now ...

That's not really readable ...

Still, open source was part of the proposal and why I agreed to it, after reading it carefully.

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Show 1 more reply

smooth (70) · 5 years ago

The correct defintion is source code is the preferred version for developing the project, not anything that humans can read. I can read some machine code reasonably well, but that does not make it source code.

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felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

Ha ! You were right until you called that machine code.

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Show 8 more replies

felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

Can we not please cut this short to where you admit you did not really read the full proposal and missed the (granted: small) paragraph, where he promises open sourcing steemworld as well ?

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stoodkev (69) · 5 years ago

Why promising it when it takes minutes to do it?
In any case, I m not forcing him to do anything, I just give my personal opinion regarding what he should do to get funded again. It just happens that I m not the only one thinking that way.

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olimiesma (5) · 5 years ago

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smooth (70) · 5 years ago

Using and paying to develop are two different things. Microsoft and Adobe don't apply to Steem stakeholders for funding.

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sanjeevm (63) · 5 years ago

@steemchiller , I need some help. Could not find any other way to connect to you, so writing it here. I am creating an account from https://steemworld.org/, I generate the keys , but then when I use Steem Connect, it says the URL is invalid. Can you please assist ?

steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

Please use Steem Keychain instead or enter the key directly. SteemConnect seems not to work for that operation.

12 votes

sanjeevm (63) · 5 years ago (edited)

Steem Keychain is also not working, I just go and say Use Keychain, but then nothing happens. Finally I gave the active key directly and it worked, but I think, it would be best to have it worked through Steemconnect.

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steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

Ok, I will check it with KeyChain in the coming days. Last time I tested it, it worked without any issues. Did you use a Chromium based browser like Chrome/Brave or Firefox?

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8 votes

sanjeevm (63) · 5 years ago

I used chrome.

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steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago (edited)

I just created two accounts using KeyChain without any issues, one in Firefox and one in Chrome.

Do you use the latest KeyChain version? Maybe your browser is running an outdated version (in older versions the create_claimed_account operation wasn't implemented yet).

Did you activate the KeyChain extension after you visited SteemWorld? Currently a page refresh is required for the extension to hook into the SteemWorld DOM.

$0.98

14 votes

sanjeevm (63) · 5 years ago

Well, I have not gone and checked on latest version of KeyChain, also I did not activate after I visited Steemworld. I will give them a try and let you know in this thread.

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steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

Ok, let me know, if it helps.

Addition to my second point:
What I mean is that, the extension should be active before you visit SteemWorld not the other way ;)

$0.69

10 votes

transisto (74) · 5 years ago

I'm not voting for it because AFAIK it's made no commitment to open-sourcing.

$0.04

joshman (70) · 5 years ago

THIS!

If the project was open source I'd vote it. I believe @blocktrades committed to voting for it as an open source project as well. The whole story isn't being told here. If you want to draw community funds, make your project open source.

6 votes

felixxx (68) · 5 years ago

You can already download a local version. That is the full source. Download it, inspect it.

He is working on a github release which will be licensed 'open source', as stated in the proposal, that will be spring next year. I have no reason to not trust him.

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15 votes

smooth (70) · 5 years ago

That is the full source

No it isn't, as I explained elsewhere.

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olimiesma (5) · 5 years ago

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joshman (70) · 5 years ago

What are you even on about? Those closed source applications are for profit endeavors and not asking to be community funded.

$0.07

freebornangel (73) · 5 years ago

How many people vote for proposals and the return proposal?
This early, i bet some rshares could come your way.

I bet we get this fixed.

michelangelo3 (71) · 5 years ago

I just asked myself the same question, the answer is:

533 Votes for Return Propostal
2354 Votes for SteemWorld Support

Places 1-3:

441 for Nr. 1 HF Proposal
118 for Nr. 2 Dev Portal Documentation
300 for Nr. 3 Testing reviewing...

Interesting numbers!

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freebornangel (73) · 5 years ago

Lol, the few forcing the many, again.

It's our money, and we need it now!
We are rich, our opinions are better than yours.

I will be glad when the inflation spreads the influence farther.

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smooth (70) · 5 years ago

Those are not people they are accounts. People can have multiple accounts.

Amount of SP voting is what matters.

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michelangelo3 (71) · 5 years ago

Sehr schade, traurig, traurig. Berg- und Talfahrt. Ich hoffe nur, dein Post veranlasst die Propostal-Unterstützer die Sache mehr im Auge zu behalten und du bist bald wieder "drin".

7 votes

olimiesma (5) · 5 years ago

If you want my advice,

Do Power Down and leave this platform, it is lost.

They speak open source, use Windows, Office and Adobe xD

They talk about the stock market and don't know how to organize their own business so that it thrives, not to mention the money they have stolen and rob investors

They talk about social network and this is not a social network, nor is it similar, it is rather a badly programmed forum

FaceBook LIBRA will eat them with chips and ketchup

The organization and team of this project has clearly demonstrated opportunism, the dates are clear

Since they cannot sustain themselves, they try to blame others for their incompetence.

All this is clearly seen in the price of STEEM, no investor today and that is serious, who is asked about this platform will say that it is a good platform, company or investment in the short or long term

Seriously, leave this miserable site

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mundharmonika (64) · 5 years ago

That sounds really depressive and pessimistic, but perhaps you're almost right. But what about to fork out the bad guys?

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kiwisteem (0) · 5 years ago

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siphon (60) · 5 years ago

Ich bin ja nur ein kleiner Fisch...
!COFFEEA 5
Hoffen wir das es klappt.

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chesatochi (72) · 5 years ago

The SPS is just about influence and power in action.

$0.00

rafalski (66) · 5 years ago

You want to make living from steemworld but maybe.. possibly.. it is just not possible ith this kind of project?

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cwow2 (65) · 5 years ago

So if I vote for another project, it will spread out my SP??

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freddio (61) · 5 years ago

it sucks and i hope you get funded again.

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coffeea.token (57) · 5 years ago

Lucky you @steemchiller here is your COFFEEA, view all your tokens at steem-engine.com Vote for c0ff33a as Witness

$0.00

beerlover (62) · 5 years ago

^{View or trade BEER.}

Hey @steemchiller, here is a little bit of BEER from @detlev for you. Enjoy it!

$0.00

steemitqa (64) · 5 years ago

Yes, I just noticed this too. Strange stuff.

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investinthefutur (64) · 5 years ago

@mima2606 denkt du hast ein Vote durch @investinthefutur verdient

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arcange (73) · 5 years ago (edited)

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dexter.newton (37) · 5 years ago

Good Job Guys keep up the good Work!

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vimukthi (72) · 5 years ago

I might sound like a broken record:

You Should Start A Witness Node

Making few project updates or anything you like would also allow us to support you with votes. You have a very good chance getting into the Top 20. So please start a witness node.

$0.00

steemprojects (2) · 5 years ago

This post has been just added as new item to timeline of SteemWorld on Steem Projects.

If you want to be notified about new updates from this project, register on Steem Projects and add SteemWorld to your favorite projects.

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trendotoken (59) · 5 years ago

Congratulations @steemchiller, your post successfully recieved 0.29943675 TRDO from below listed TRENDO callers:

^{@amico earned : 0.1996245 TRDO curation}

^{To view or trade TRDO go to steem-engine.com

Join TRDO Discord Channel or Join TRDO Web Site}

$0.00

mima2606 (69) · 5 years ago

As I stated earlier in a comment:

The main problem is that the Return Proposal was voted way to high, so that hardly anybody who is not working for 'the top' will ever reach/hold the required level.
 
I think that the level around 8-10 million SP should be enough for now to prevent really 'harmful' proposals from getting funded. What currently is mainly being prevented by the Return Proposal is the success of alternative projects on Steem.

If you have voted for @gtg's Return Proposal, you are currently preventing me from being able to continue my developments for Steem.

Should I take it from the Posting Rewards Pool or the SPS Fund or should I start a witness node? You decide.

Details about my recent developments will be published soon.

$0.00

z8teyb289qav9z (70) · 5 years ago

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skepticology (57) · 5 years ago (edited)

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michealb (66) · 5 years ago (edited)

naw didn't notice. i did notice you complaining without taking action yourself :)

skepticology (57) · 5 years ago

Are you sure about that? Read your statement again and consider that "taking action" could mean something different than voting with a stake that doesn't have value. Just FYI, any rewards you might expect from my comment are sniped at the 12-hour mark by spaminator thugs and crew.

$0.14

freebornangel (73) · 5 years ago

!dramatoken

dramatoken (62) · 5 years ago

Such drama, you've earned a DRAMA!

^{To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.}

$0.00

freebornangel (73) · 5 years ago

Not many folks can hoe that row.

!dramatoken

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dramatoken (62) · 5 years ago

You've got DRAMA!

^{To view or trade DRAMA go to steem-engine.com.}

$0.00

inertia (73) · 5 years ago

I already lost many days of rewards, mainly, because the Return Proposal is being pushed around without further investigating the consequences and without elaborating which projects/lives could be hit by a single click from a big stakeholder.

Maybe stakeholders don’t want to take on the responsibilities of these so-called “consequences.”

$0.00