SteemWorld Update ~ Managing The After-Fork Effects

steemchiller (74) in steemworld • 5 years ago (edited)

Update

I just want to inform you that I'm in the process of restructuring my base classes, so that it's easier for me to adapt to future changes related to the reward curve and the rewards calculation in general.

Currently the displayed vote amounts in Account Operations and the Votes Overview are not correct, because they are calculated purely on voted rshares and, as you may have noticed, the effective rshares can now differ up to ~ 50%.

Predicted Vote Amounts

As I posted earlier in a comment:

Since SteemWorld can't know which post we will vote on, it currently shows the estimated value for a vote on a post that already got 20 STEEM.

So, if one votes a comment that doesn't have much rshares already, the green line would be somewhere on the left of the curve and the vote's amount would be much less (can be -50%). Optimal would it be to have a new setting/slider on SteemWorld, where we can choose what we want to see.

I will think about a good solution in the coming weeks. For now I'm working on improving my code and, since I need to change a lot in the base classes, it might come to some temporary glitches on SteemWorld in the meantime.

Please don't take the current estimations (especially the coming curation rewards) too serious until I'm done with my 'after-fork' adaptions.

So, finishing the delegations and market for SE-Tokens will have to wait a few days more, but of course, I'm still on it ;)

Staking Tokens

I added the type of the tokens in the Stake Tokens dialog, so that we can better differentiate between STEEM and SE (Steem-Engine). STEEM is now also no longer automatically selected when opening the list.

After-Fork Thoughts

Still voting comments?

Hmmm... Not so sure.
Good and bad at the same time.
Business on, whiny human off?

Business needed for Steem to moon?

Yes.

Steem On!

steemworld steem dev palnet marlians

5 years ago by steemchiller (74)

$124.56

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double-u (71) · 5 years ago

Lieber @steemchiller,

hilfst du mir bitte mal, damit ich das verstehe?

In dem Diagramm ist mir klar, dass bei einem Beitrag mit Wert unter 20 STEEM sehr viel verloren geht. Bei Kommentaren gehen fast immer 50% verloren.

Ich verstehe aber trotzdem das Diagramm mit seiner waagrechten Achse nicht. Ich habe mir das jetzt insgesamt schon so oft und so lange angeschaut. Ich steh' auf dem Schlauch. Die 20-STEEM-Regelungen habe ich verstanden. Ich verstehe nur das Diagramm nicht, und das nervt mich.

Falls es dir nicht zu viel Mühe macht, könntest du mir das bitte textlich erklären?

Und noch was: Ich vote ja gerne auch deine Kommentare? Jetzt haben wir diese hohen Verluste. Fällt dir etwas besseres als Alternative ein?

Lieben Gruß, @double-u

$0.21

10 votes

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steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

Hi @double-u!

Ich bin so müde, dass ich kaum noch sehen kann, was ich hier gerade tippe... Ich werde dir also später nochmal antworten ;)

Ein paar Gedanken schon mal vorweg:

Du brauchst einen Plan, wie du deine Kneipe von jetzt an betreiben wirst. Die Frage ist, ob es sich für dich (und deine Gäste) überhaupt noch lohnt für die Kommentare viel VP zu verschenken, wenn man nun mit Votes auf größere Posts viel mehr verdient. Das sollte man sich alles gut überlegen.

Ich habe schon eine Weile darüber nachgedacht, aber habe noch keine gute Lösung gefunden. Ordentlich Power hast du ja bereits, also mit optimiertem Voten auf (erfolgreiche) Posts würdest du sicherlich das dreifache oder sogar mehr verdienen...

LG, Chiller

$0.63

14 votes

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condeas (62) · 5 years ago

Ich habe mir da auch schon Gedanken drüber gemacht und denke, dass ein Vote-Trail auf Kommentare eine angenehme Lösung wäre.
Ich denke eine Erhöhung der Anzahl der Personen, würde auch die RC der Bewertungen erhöhen und somit eine bessere Auszahlung ermöglichen.
Muss aber erstmal getestet werden ob sich dieser Aufwand für den Begünstigten auch lohnt.

LG condeas

$0.12

2 votes

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mundharmonika (64) · 5 years ago (edited)

Ich dachte schon fast, du sprichst von meiner neuen Wochen-Seite, da das dort bereits verwirklicht ist. Und den Aufwand habe ich dort den Begünstigten durch viele Stunden Arbeit jetzt schon zu 99 % abgenommen!

[Edit: Ich habe sie gerade eben in dieser Hinsicht noch angepasst und ergänzt.]

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mundharmonika (64) · 5 years ago

Ich hätte da was im Angebot, fertig angerichtet auf dem Serviertablett sozusagen. ;-)

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xels (68) · 5 years ago

Vielen dank für deinen grandiosen Einsatz lieber Steemchiller! Eine Frage habe ich. Wenn ich einen Comment mit 100% upvote, dann ist dieser Upvote nur noch die Hälfte wert. Bekomme ich als Kurator dann, eine Woche später, die andere Hälfte sozusagen zurück oder habe ich das falsch verstanden? Viele Grüße, Xels

$0.15

7 votes

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steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

Bekomme ich als Kurator dann, eine Woche später, die andere Hälfte sozusagen zurück oder habe ich das falsch verstanden?

Leider nicht. Zuerst werden die effektiven rshares mit Hilfe der neuen Reward-Kurve aus der Gesamt-Summe ermittelt. Nur der übrige Teil (abhängig von der Höhe der Post-Summe) wird für die Berechnung der Kurationsbelohnung herangezogen.

Es lohnt sich also nicht mehr Kommentare stark zu voten, wenn nicht ausreichend andere Votes eintreffen und die Grenze zur linearen Kurve erreicht wird. Je mehr SP man hat, desto mehr lohnt es sich natürlich. Kleine Accounts sollten meiner Meinung nach nur noch 1% für Kommentare geben und 100% für richtige Posts, um überhaupt noch etwas damit verdienen zu können.

Also entweder man votet Kommentare in Absprache in einer Gruppe von Votern oder man votet nur noch mit ein paar %. Ich selbst weiß auch noch nicht, wie ich die Kommentare in meinen Posts jetzt noch voten kann/sollte. Dir gebe ich noch einen 50%igen ;)

$0.93

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xels (68) · 5 years ago

Vielen Dank für die ausführliche Erklärung! Du darfst Dir bei mir gerne deine Votes für die Kommentare sparen. Ich werde Dich auch so weiterhin unterstützen 👍

$0.00

1 vote

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anomadsoul (77) · 5 years ago

Hey @steemchiller! Thanks so much for what you do for the Steem community. As a token of appreciation your post has received a 100% free vote from @ocdb.

For transparency purposes I'll drop this link here in case anyone wants to read more about @ocdb's manual curation.

$0.09

1 vote

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englishtchrivy (72) · 5 years ago

hi Chiller,
Thanks for all you do here!
I noticed that steemworld and steem now doesn't seem to agree on the value of our upvote's worth. In steemworld my 100% was worth 18 cents earlier on but 9 cents in steemnow, I reckon one of them is accurate so I've decided to ask here.
I hope you don't mind.
Thank you again!

$0.09

4 votes

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steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

Hi Ivy! I'm currently working on a new slider, so that you can slide to what you desire to see... ^^

I will try to explain :)
The value that you currently see on SteemWorld is your real (potential) vote value. When you vote a post that didn't receive any votes yet, the shown vote amount will be much less (can be down to -50%), because based on the new reward curve the total payout of the post is too low to reach the point where the curve gets more linear, like it has been before the HF.

So, you are really voting 18 cents (in rshares), but not all of your potential vote amount will be paid out, if no other voters increase the total payout amount enough to reach the linear point. For example, when a big whale votes the same post later with a strong vote, a higher percentage of your potential rshares will be used for the payout and your 18 cents can really be reached.

I will soon add a slider, so that we can define the payout amount of the target post on SteemWorld. I hope this helps a bit to understand how it works ;)

$0.82

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englishtchrivy (72) · 5 years ago

I see, thank you very much for explaining.
I've been absent lately so I'm totally no longer updated.
I guess I'd recharge again before I cast one on this reply of yours apparently my vote worth's gone to 1 cent now.
Have a great night! and thanks again!

$0.50

1 vote

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miti (75) · 5 years ago

Hey @steemchiller, let me first say thank you for your good work!

I think there's a problem with calculation of curation rewards when the author of a post set 100% beneficiaries:

In that case the author devotes 100% of his rewards to a beneficiary but not those of the curators. I think there's a problem here, do you agree with me?

$0.04

1 vote

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steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago (edited)

Some people/platforms seem to deactivate the setting allow_curation_rewards in their posts. I saw many #threespeak posts where that is the case. If that's no bug on their end, it's pure evil and against the known Steem principles, because people won't earn anything from voting such content.

Maybe I missed something, but I don't see any good reason for deactivating the curation logic. Do the liquid rewards from @likwid come back to the voters? I don't know. At least the front-ends need to show a hint when voting those posts to inform the voter about it.

I will mention that in my next post.

@threespeak @theycallmedan Any info about this?

Edit
I now added the missing columns for STEEM and SBD of the benef. payout in the summary tab ;)

$0.84

14 votes

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miti (75) · 5 years ago (edited)

It seems that happens after the last bug, only for authors who use the @likwid service and #threespeak .

$0.00

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lordbutterfly (70) · 5 years ago

Hey. Could you maybe help out with this. Im not sure why it always says that on this one particular author curation is always 0.

Screenshot (20).png

$0.04

1 vote

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steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago (edited)

I checked this post:
i-like-the-red-watermelon-better-than-the-yellow-sugar-melon

The weight of your vote is 0, which does not make sense here. Looks like a bug in steemd.
Maybe the nodes didn't refresh the old votes yet...

If you really should not receive your curation_reward for those posts, it's a major bug.

Maybe @gtg knows anything about it?

$0.84

14 votes

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lordbutterfly (70) · 5 years ago

Ive been seeing this for a while. I cannot be 100% sure but i think this was the case even before HF21.

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syalla (54) · 5 years ago

Hey, danke für die Aufklärung, endlich habe ich es verstanden.^^

Aber eine Frage habe ich noch:
Wenn ich als erstes einen Kommentar/Post vote, dann ist meine "Voting-Effizienz" bei etwa 50%. - Soweit klar.
Wenn jetzt noch Votes (von anderen) hinterher kommen - verändert sich dann "nachträglich" MEINE "Voting-Effizienz"?

$0.04

1 vote

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steemchiller (74) · 5 years ago

Wenn jetzt noch Votes (von anderen) hinterher kommen - verändert sich dann "nachträglich" MEINE "Voting-Effizienz"?

Jo. Wenn nach deinem Vote ein sehr starker Vote eintrifft, erhöht sich die Effizienz deutlich und du verdienst mehr (außer es war ein Downvote). Es kommt aber nicht auf die Anzahl der Votes an, sondern rein auf die gevoteten rshares (abhängig von SP & VP) der Voter.

$2.24

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abh12345 (76) · 5 years ago

Thank you as always for steemworld. It really is the loveliest presentation of what's going on in your Steem world. Good luck with the changes :)

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lanzjoseg (74) · 5 years ago

Hi @steemchiller

Good friend, thanks for reporting this situation, you know I had noticed that the calculations were not very close to reality.

Friend we will continue waiting for the update.

Greetings from Venezuela.

$0.00

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kadna (69) · 5 years ago

Vielen Dank für deine Mühe und deine Gedanken. Das mit den Kommentaren finde ich nicht gut. Es gibt sowieso schon so wenig Kommentare und Austausch...

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mcoinz79 (70) · 5 years ago

Such a useful tool. Curious, what happens if we upvote our own comment??

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trincowski (68) · 5 years ago

Still voting comments?

I currently have 5250 SP and I've stopped upvoting comments altogether, since it all goes to dust now. 😲

Thanks for your hard work, the site keeps getting better everyday! 😁

$0.00

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cflclosers (67) · 5 years ago

Have you figured at an amount that it does make sense to vote so that you don't get dust? I'm looking for that sweet spot

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sathyasankar (63) · 5 years ago

$0.03 is that sweet spot

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cflclosers (67) · 5 years ago

that is after the fork?

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trincowski (68) · 5 years ago

Yes, I need to upvote with at least 70% of my Power for it to count. That's way too much for me. If I upvote comments, I won't be able to upvote anything else so I prefer to stop upvoting comments altogether.

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cflclosers (67) · 5 years ago

I think comments are now dead but I am thinking about giving out beer token to the comments in the future because it has value

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dswigle (70) · 5 years ago

I use tipu!

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cflclosers (67) · 5 years ago

I'll look into that.

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unsuwe (62) · 5 years ago

Hi @steemchiller , erstmal mein schlechtes Gewissen beruhigen , mit einem update :-(( L G unsuwe

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cryptopie (81) · 5 years ago

It doesn't make sense to vote comments if it will just use the vote power but will not benefit both parties.

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pixelfan (74) · 5 years ago

What a challenge! So happy you have to do it and not me 😂
Thanks man for trying to keep up with all those silly changes the steem-team is launching!

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steemprojects (2) · 5 years ago

This post has been just added as new item to timeline of SteemWorld on Steem Projects.

If you want to be notified about new updates from this project, register on Steem Projects and add SteemWorld to your favorite projects.

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luegenbaron (64) · 5 years ago

sad

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dtrade (64) · 5 years ago

I can see you are using #palnet and #marlians tag. Please add #steemleo tag. #steemleo is one of the most successful tribes and holding its value among the tribe tokens. I would love to support your project with 20K LEO (almost one Steem) upvote weekly.

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jary143 (49) · 5 years ago

How can survive small accounts ? Now how we can build our power quickly before fork we can do bid and increase our power rapidly than now? Do you suggest me some tips to increase my power in these situations?

Posted using Partiko iOS

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blacklux (67) · 5 years ago

Man, I must tell ya, the claiming tokens at once button thingy is awesome! Thanks for that, it saves me a lot of time!

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jekhy (6) · 5 years ago

Thanks for the post.

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jekhy (6) · 5 years ago

Thanks for the post.

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saboin (55) · 5 years ago

The site is still very useful as it is. Take whatever time you need. SteemWorld is one of the most useful interfaces for the Steem blockchain. I use it every day.

I still vote on comments, and if I happen to not have enough power to matter the @dustbunny comes and fluffs up my vote so it doesn’t go to dust. I think that’s a good service, too; it encourages voting on comments.