I understand that this might be a controversial subject for some people. I would advise anyone who is emotional about this to not read any further.
Life can be a fascinating experience for some and extremely awful for others. One can find the beauty in all things and enjoy them through good times and bad. Others that do not share the same point of view can't go into this mind trip. I am calling it mind trip because objectively life sucks.
Most people on this planet have no water, food or shelter on a daily basis. They never did if you are quick to accuse "capitalism" or some other political ideology. This is how life rolls. This is how social darwinism works for all species. Some perish for some others to advance. This is how our species reached this point in history.
For many reading this, life is pretty good. You are most likely young with no illness or major distress and most likely grew in a family that was ready to supply you with the basics even if you had your ups and downs. For some others though life is pain day in and day out. Whether it is physical pain or emotional is irrelevant.
One can look at a pile of shit and be fascinated by the extravagant mechanism of the human system that takes food and processes it down to its basic nutrients. Feces exits from another hole in the body as a new substance! There are essentially other forms of life that can themselves give life to other forms of life! Fascinating right? Well, for some it is still shit.
I wrote in the past that "Empathy Is Bullshit" for the very reason that one cannot possibly get in the shoes of another person. We share different experiences, different physiologies and different timelines that cannot be possibly be shared due to basic physical laws.
We think we can understand others but this is only an illusion. Most of the time, we cannot even understand our own actions, our own thoughts and processes because they have become part of ourselves. In the same way, a mirror cannot look into itself and another mirror will only force it into one single perspective. This is also why I believe psychology is nonsensical and borderline scammy. From one perspective, every single human on earth has issues. The only thing missing is a proper rhetoric.
Some say that suicide is an egotistical act, one that insults the living. Traditionally religions opposed to it because they theorized that life is sacred and that only the creator had a say. What was offensive was the power of a human being to take their own life, an act that was only allowed from the divine. Thing is, as we grew intellectually as a species we realized that the religions we came up with are only but our stories, our own narratives to explain our own shortcomings. We are Gods, we always were but afraid to admit it. We created the divine to explain the part of ourselves that was out of reach. We invented souls to fill this pack of bones and flesh with something important.
Life is nothing more that electrical signals with some chemical reactions. This is all we know so far and this is what every piece of experiment shows. We cannot be sad about 1850's because we weren't around back then. We will not be sad, or afraid or or or about 2100's because none of us is going to be around. Some will die from accidents, others from disease, others will take their own life.
And there is nothing wrong with that. It causes pain to the ones around the person but rest assured that a person takes their own life to feel relief. Accepting the act of suicide for what it is — control of an individual's own body — is what matters at the end. The rest of us that keep going don't matter. Our feelings with that person don't matter. Trying to save someone from taking their own life says more about us rather than the other person. We can convince someone to look life from a different perspective (most likely ours) but we won't be doing anything different that religions have been doing for so long. We would have to force a new world view into that person's head, another narrative — most likely more hopeful in order to keep going on with the rest of us.
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https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/peace-of-mind-near-death/
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The thing is, when a person is really depressed and on the verge of suicide, they forget that life can really only go one of 3 ways - it can get worse, it can stay the same or it can get better and if a person is seriously considering suicide, then surely life has to get better, if only they can hang on ... another problem with suicide, is that suicide doesn't really stop the pain, it only passes on the pain to someone else ...
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Hmmm. interesting point of view. if it were true then I could not even understand this article, but sadly, at a time in my life I thought exactly as you do. Fortunately today I do not. No there is nothing wrong with suicide - but for those who experience such a loss of a loved one, it is an extremely selfish act. And then again there is that idea of being a disembodied spirit forever tormented by the things it was unable to work out in this life - there is an idea that they will find rest in death, but that is highly unlikely, since it is only in the physical that the change can be made.
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How explains science the presence of Jesus?
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People from different cultures see their religious figures appearing to them in times of disillusionment, fear and/or danger. Buddhists see Buddha, Muslims see Muhammad, Christians see Jesus.
Human live their life by aspiring to other humans. When someone is a deep believer and thinks about their religious figure all the time then it is bound to appear in their dreams or even start appearing in objects. Same thing can happen when we watch a movie late night and some of the action appears in the dream.
The brain lives behind footprints, much like the ones we leave in the sand when we walk down the beach. There are even sights of mass delusions where people convince each other about the presence of something.
A few years back I wanted to test this hypothesis. I devised an experiment. I drew a small dot on a picture above the sky and spread the rumor among UFO believers. In less than 2 hours my photograph became national news and people even started swearing to have seen the light in the street while they were driving and other weird occurrences. Once I planted the seed the thing took off like wild fire.
This is to demonstrate how all religions, beliefs, rumours and conspiracies work. Humans like to trick each other in believing their own version of reality. When too many people gather then the idea gains credibility and nobody questions the original source.
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You had your own views of life which you shared, but in my own views I can't accept that Tak ng our own life by committing suicide is.nothing wrong with, I guess you are wrong. Yes, in every corner of the world suffered differently, people, person to person experiencing so much pained or bad doing by the others. Many time maybe it creeps into our mind to end up this all for we cannot bear it anymore. By doing so you think you end up the pained but the truth is you escaped life, scared to faced it,.in fact your closing your mind to accept that you can still have a chance to survive, you made up your mind because you think suicide is the only solution. By doing it, you also tagging someone to death like what happened to them. If only she fight and look further ahead who knows what lies beyond that lined. Sad to say she will never know for she decide and committed what supposed not to be made.
I think you don't believed in the holy scripture that's why you had that kind of views or you also deals a very tough and hard life. But doesn't came into your mind why you are still here, communicating, expresses what you feel? Because you still believed in yourself, because you are strong, because you are not like them,.that the only thing that they knew to escaped life reality is by taking their own lives, because you still believed you can make it change into much better stage. Your not or they are not the one who suffered and feel the pained. People who done that looses their hope and giving up their faith, and forgotten WHO they really needs.
Be strong, and God bless.
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Majority of people think suicide is egoistical but what if someone just couldn't hold the unbearable pain? I'd rather to do it than to suffer all my life with constant unbearable pain.
People might say ' I've been there,I understand your pain' but honestly they don't. If a friend of mine would try to suicide, I'd just ask them how are they going to do it and why are they going to do it. I'd ask if it really worth it and if their pain is strongly unbearable so they choose to do so. I would respect their choices.
Speaking about people who's associated with suicide person, they might feel that they 'lost' someone but I see it as the same thing when we lost material belongings. If you lost it, it's either will bring you to downfall or another awakening,
My position is in the gray part because I really think that it's okay to die when it's truly needed. However, I only support it under medical procedures and assistance just so it won't cause any further pain or failures.
Would you let someone suffering all their life? while you're pretending to understand them? isn't that egoistical too?
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No pain endures, no suffering lasts. That is the truth, one will become numb to anything that endures, and as everything changes and is temporal nothing lasts. Unbearable pain gives way to unconsciousness, or it's not unbearable. Most people suicide out of Desperation, that specific suffering, and all lack a perspective on that and the impact their acts have.
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No it is not the truth. I have chronic pain for more than 5 years and it is not getting better.
Avoid being a dick and speak for everyone when you have no idea what others are going through.
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Chronic pain is what I have too, for way longer than five years, so don't assume anything you Decepticon, it's quite evident that no suffering last, and no pain endures, you only have to recognize this truth so that when you are happy or the pain is not there it's validated, again and again. When you go to sleep the pain is gone, when you pass out the pain is gone, when the pain isn't there it's not there. Therefore it stopped, or subsided and thus the sliver lining.
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I think it's absolutely clear that for some people in some conditions, pain would not only last them until their deaths, but would keep getting worse.
Finding silver linings is a separate issue and people's ability to do that and adapt to the pain differs and any generalization in that sense is bound to be fallacious.
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The point is that no pain endures, no suffering lasts. Not that I'm saying people should be tormented in pain till they die. Yet there is a threshold of pain and the same for suffering, so that psychological pain and physical pain is neither constant or without end and when that threshold is passed it's lights out and pain and suffering is no more, as everything in this world it's hardly constant, that's why you can keep your hand in the fire for ever, but it will only burn for so long. Being tormented by pain would require someone to endure what nobody can endure without passing out. When they get back to it that pain might emerge once more, but nobody can endure torment or constant torment, the body either becomes burned out in that respect/numb or you pass out, or both.
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That's a generalization that sounds poetic but I don't think it has been shown to always be the case. For some people the threshold does not adjust with time and the pain is not sharp enough to get you to pass out.
Our minds and bodies are not machines and don't always act according to the pattern you are describing and there are always things that could malfunction to prevent the mechanisms that you are describing from working the way you are describing.
Additionally, what good is passing out or sleeping if you are still in pain after you wake up. Even if the pain is not constant for some and they do get a breaks, it can still be unbearable to them.
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well said
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Albert Camus's The Myth of Sisyphus - "There is but one truly serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy." Please continue reading here. This is the most influential and powerful book I've ever read. Can't speak highly enough of it.
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Read it
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The link you have provided doesn't allow one to read the actual essay in question, it is the last chapter in the book.
and at least for me pages 65 to 213 aren't available in that view.
And, more importantly, don't forget that that quote, which I carried around with me for many years, just like that, is taken out of context, once you read the chapter in question, which I only did earlier this year for the first time.
I feel very different now about sharing it so glibly as I used too, now I am aware of said context.
The chapter is copied onto a post on my wordpress blog.
And you can't read it on google books, as I stated above.
If the owner of this blog @kyriacos asks me to, I will link that reprint of the essay in question.
I have not read all of the preceding chapters either, but I was specifically looking for that one, and was able to get hold of the text for that essay alone.
Have you seen how much Camus's books cost? Insane
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well, I said just like that, but I actually had it in my head as
I have made a couple of artworks about it
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All your choices are only your choices, it is not egoistical to decide your own fate, I'm not speaking particularly of suicide, it is of all things
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I agree with you, But it's definitely a hard one for me to read today. Suicide is not selfish, And sometimes people try and try and just can't seem to win in their lives. Sometimes it's the systems we have in place. That make it hard to do dig yourself out. Other times you just might be in a horrible place. But it's messed up when people make the suicide all about them, Calling the person "selfish" for what they did. Those people who said that, Could probably be called selfish for not doing everything they could to help that person, if thats what they needed of course.
You have no right to tell someone how to live their lives.
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precisely. well said.
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Nobody is telling anyone how to live, and I can judge someone who behaves poorly, I can judge someone who makes such a choice especially if they are close to me and I can consider how inconsiderate they are to others or how foolish and careless they are to squander the gift of life as I would expect others do that to me were I to bring them such inconsiderate and foolish "company".
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They don't have to consider you. It is their life. not yours.
Who is being selfish now?
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Those who don't consider others, that's who's selfish, or do I need to hit you over the head with a dictionary opened up to selflessness?
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I think though, that if you live your life to make other people happy, then you're doing yourself a great disservice. She might have considered staying alive so her friends wouldn't suffer the loss. But every day of her life was filled with pain - physical and emotional. And her physical pain not only prevented her from living a full life of experiences and interaction, there was also no end in sight. She hadn't been suffering from IC for weeks or months. It had been years.
So, she could stay alive, isolated and in pain, so that her friends and family would be okay, or trust that they know her well enough to understand her decision to finally stop this endless cycle. They might not agree with her decision, and yes, it's tragic and creates so much psychological pain for others. But she was the one living in pain, trying every single day to make things better, and constantly being knocked back down.
It was her life, no one else's. And the people who have lost her have their own issues to deal with now. Those are and were none of her responsibility. One cannot live one's life in order to please others. She made a choice. We may not like it, but tough titties. We didn't live her life.
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Interesting perspective. I will tell you that my Sweetheart died December 12, 2016. she had eye surgery 6 days before and they took her off her blood thinners. We will never know if she went back on them. However that last week she was very dark and extremely depressed. Many times she had talked of committing suicide and even tried one in 2003. Six months before she died she said she could take her life and no one would ever know. We were not married but she was hitting dead ends all over the place from her children treating her like shit, health issues, financial concerns, and all coming to a climax in December. They never did an autopsy. There was a 50 50 probability she did. Her roommate thought she did. I do not know. I do know however I desperately miss her and am still working though the loss. They departed may be in a better place. However when suicide is involved it leaves a dumpster full of psychological baggage behind for the living to sort though. I will leave you with this video that her roommate thinks of when she thinks of her life and death. It speaks volumes of Depression - Alice in chains black gives Way to Blue
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Seen it. She made a decision. Nothing wrong with that.
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Man, I would like start by acknowledging you and your pain and torment, and your bravery and patience to write it out.
It was very touching and I think you should write more about it, if you haven't already been doing so.
I hope I am not sounding condescending, as that's the opposite thing to what I want to achieve.
People tell me I'm pretty good to talk to, (surprises me a bit sometimes, but some people like swearing I suppose) so if you would like a sympathetic ear and an earful too, hit me up.
I really don't know what else to say here, without repeating mine and other's comments elsewhere.
I am serious about what I just said too. Goes for anybody reading this. I am on Discord with the same name. I hang in PAL usually.
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Yes, you are right. Suicide is good option for more people. But the process is not pleasant. Therefore, the suicide must be made in government Hospital.
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Not pleasant for other that have to go on living.
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Yes, you are right. Not pleasant. But people need have right to finish own live at any time, I think.
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I don't have any answers. But even if my life sucked i will still strive to make the lives of people around me better before I leave this Earth. I value my family and friend's happiness over mine.
Even if the people around me aren't real I will continue to work hard for the people I love, even if it's insanity in some perspectives.
I've had dark moments in my life where I didn't see a light at the end of the tunnel, there was no future for me, and was contemplating ending it. It's the ability to endure those times and not give up to reach a point where life becomes beautiful again. I will continue down the rabbit hole.
I also accept that there are mental illnesses and do not judge those who decide to "unplug'."
Also what about the super rich people who were given everything in life and still comitted suicide? It's not just a poor thing, look at young celebrities who were given everything and life and went crazy/weird when they grew up.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but what you chose to think given those perspectives is just sad.
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Everyone has their own reasons whether rich or poor. Life is torment. Some accept this and end it, some accept this and endure through it. Some find delusions to keep them going.
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Just had a friend attempt earlier this week. Thank god they pumped her stomach at 2 am. It is selfish and shortsighted if they are in good physical health.
She texted me a personalized suicide note. I got it after she attempted because I was away from my phone. Could not reach her for six hours.
The pain I went through is something I could never wish on my worst enemy.
I did not want to tell anyone on here because it felt too personal. But. This is a very dark and yet interesting argument. I'm definatly doing a post tomorrow on it.
Question for @kyriacos (Genuine curiosity, not intending to be combative or trying to set you up for a counter argument.)
So if someone comes to the ER with serious injuries due to a failed suicide attempt. If the doctors perform no actions. They will die.
The patient remains conscious enough to request death.
What should happen?
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They should assist that person die in their own terms.
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So every person who asks to be killed should be?
Edit: Right then and there they should stop trying to save their life and let them bleed out?
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Yes. and Yes
here is how they do it in Switzerland
http://assisted-dying.org/blog/2016/03/04/how-and-how-much-for-assisted-suicide-in-switzerland/
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Is that where they support young people in ending their life?
Or is that where they support people with a clarity of mind but a deteriorating physical form which brings both pain and suffering to their loved ones and themselves in spite of their clarity of mind to end their life and be released from the torment?
When we have to discuss specifics or details such as that no wonder a Decepticon will go mute, you cannot compute, can you, things such as "betterment" or "selflessness".
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This is an interesting perspective, but I disagree with the premise that preventing suicide is rooted in a religious belief. Suicide can be viewed as a waste of potential aside from whether you believe life is sacred. Each individual has the ability to contribute to the betterment of the human race, and often times those that contribute the most are the ones that have gone through some of the worst experiences. So I think you can look at suicide as a negative action without it stemming from a religious view or from a place of emotional attachment. How many intelligent young people have committed suicide, and what could they have done in their lifetimes had they not done it?
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Agreed. I becomes a certain afforded option with age. When we enter the world, we consume and we are obligated to serve in return.
After a lifetime of service and the body is physically deteriorating, there comes a point where weighing life ahead and misery and pain are tough decisions best left to the elderly.
That being said, it is tragic nevertheless, especially with the recent loss of STEEM's first suicide.
One thing I particularly find interesting about the post includes the loved ones left behind.
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I never said that is rooted in a religious belief. I said that negative connotations are.
betterment towards what? earthily patriotism? Silly as regular patriotism.
Again. patriotism. why do they have to do something for others? It is what I said. It comes down to individualism. Why having to offer anything to anyone?
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Right, but my argument is that negative connotations could just as easily come from an evolutionary predisposition than from a religious belief. When young people, in particular, choose to commit suicide, the feeling is often that they had more to offer.
My argument has nothing to do with patriotism or allegiance, it has to do with the ability of the person in question to accomplish tangible things that could benefit humanity as a whole. Medical discoveries, works of art, volunteer work. It just seems to me that if you dismiss negative connotations around suicide as religious predispositions or emotional nonsense, you miss the other more practical and tangible losses to humanity as a whole that result from the loss of a life.
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Well, in some cultures suicide is not considered a bad thing. In fact, suicide is condemned mostly in religious countries. Then again, religion is an evolutionary mechanism on and in itself and I guess no culture wants to have less members as much as a football team wants to compete with the full team.
if they don't matter to you as a person then why on earth would you care staying alive for others in order to develop their gadgets? Now that's what I call selfish.
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Name two such cultures.
Name two countries that aren't "religious".
If it's evolutionary how come the most ancient have a creation myth and a creator?
Yeah, good one, because they could have a family, and share their happiness and create and help others, that means @jaredcwillis is saying they don't matter as a person, spoken like a true Decepticon.
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Japan, Aboriginal communities of the Northern Australia, Switzerland (they even have centers assisting it)..many others.
All countries have religions of some sort but non religious countries are Vietnam, Japan, Czech Republic, Sweden, Britain...many others.
Because we are all homo-sapiens, same species and due to the fact we can envision our own demise we have creates stories that center us in a creation story that make us escape death. Also. Who created the creator? That's your question as a religious person.
They don't have the same aspirations as you. Simple as that
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All those cultures look down on young people committing suicide and rightly so. So come again.
So all countries are religious countries like it or not. You only have to look at the numbers of believers and if those in power follow those beliefs.
It's sidestepping the obvious, that religions have been around in the most ancient, and there is no "progression" of any kind and evolution therefore is a make believe theory.
No it's not my question, that's wholly your concern.
Regardless of the same aspirations as me or not you insinuated that jared was saying they are not a person because they should aspire to contribute, which is false, he way saying their potential was thrown away instead of harnessed and never said what constitutes a person, simple as that.
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The negative connotations AREN'T rooted in religious beliefs, they are evident in the wasted potential, before and in spite of any religious context.
You're silly with your examples, try harder.
Try again, obviously you don't understand the implications of being human or that no man is an island.
I recommended this but then again you have no soul, you're the gunk of a mutation from the cosmic soup without intrinsic purpose or essence outside the primordial soup narrative, a fundamental materialist that believes all disease to stem from improper chemicals, so the point of brotherhood, the point of "betterment" is lost on you, and I do pity that sad lonely, isolated, perspective.
Read some more on the subject of suicide
https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/06/03/tolstoy-confession/
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Wasted potential for those who value life. Religions developed to impose onto one another in means of ideological and cultural domination. Fewer members meant less power. This is why they condemned suicide and murder but it was ok to kill others in battle.
You are not saying anything. Patriotism..aka "for the good of earth" is silly because really there is no other competition and even if there was it is still a mind game, not an objective value. It is yourself that needs to try harder and justify existence in means of helping others.
No man is an island sure. We are all social species, but if someone feels the right to opt out you are in no position to judge them. it is a silly rat race at the end.
The soul is a silly invention. There is no evidence for it other than religion, which btw, has no more evidence for the existence of soul than Harry Potter's books for magic potions.
I read all the books from Tolstoy. Your point?
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your title almost seemed like you are encouraging people to kill themselves...
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Your point is valid however I agree that it will be controversial to many especially as there is a bad news of suicide that happneded to a steemian. Unfortunately, there are lots of pains, injustice , sickness and hardship leading to such unfortunate situation and some see it as a form of freedom...
I wish you a blessed weekend and feel free to check out my post
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Maybe it's a tip for people who want to commit suicide, go educate yourself so that your first attempt is a successful attempt so that other don't have to live years after year with a person they will constantly fear about.
Also if you commit suicide don't jump in front of a train or a car or do it in such a way you put others in danger or years of psychological trauma.
And If your suicide atempt fail's like the guy I know who jumped in from of a train and lost his both legs, don't expect people to take care of you. or show you empathy....oh wait empathy does not exist.
And then finally to those psycho/sociopaths who use the threat of committing suicide as a manipulation tool, may you be accidentally successful someday.
Edit ; this is another perspective to look at it.
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There are so many ways to look at this. The main issue with suicide is that often people decide to do it when they are highly irrational, emotional, or depressed. It is a permanent decision and making it while in a state of mind that is temporary is a terrible loss for both the person and their friends and family. I realize that sometimes people are depressed for a long period of time, so it does not feel temporary to them. Sometimes, these people can enjoy life again with medical or psychological help.
The other side of this is that I do agree there is a time when suicide is not wrong. I would personally rather have the choice to be humanely euthanized at a point where I could no longer live a quality of life that was satisfactory to me. For example, say I lived to 90 and all my friends and family are deceased, my mind is failing, and the rest of my days I'd be forced to sit in a wheel chair in a nursing home staring at the walls and not remembering my name, maybe wearing a diaper, etc. I'd rather go with dignity before that point happened.
I lost my hearing literally overnight 2 years ago due to Sudden Hearing Loss Syndrome. In addition to losing my hearing, I also began to experienced horrendous vertigo attacks and unbearable tinnitus. I saw so many specialists.. A powerful hearing aid and a cochlear implant could mitigate the hearing loss eventually, but none of the doctors could give me hope for the balance issues or the tinnitus.
It was like being tortured physically and emotionally every waking moment. I survived that was for 4 months because telling my parents in a matter of fact way that although I did not want to die, I could definitely not continue to live this way indefinitely and would need to end my life if my issues could not be made bearable. I told them I would pursue every possible avenue of relief before doing that. My parents saw how much I was suffering and seemed to accept it. I did not want to selfishly do it in a way that seemed sudden or unexplained if I had to. Fortunately for me, the hearing aid and the cochlear implant did mitigate the tinnitus quite a bit. I still get it, but can tune it out with real sounds. Ultimately, I'm very glad that a solution was found to make life bearable as I did not want to leave.
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There is nothing wrong with life either :) All is but nihilistic existentialism.
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Guess it's just a choice between the red or blue pill.
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This is an interesting perspective, but I wholeheartedly disagree with you for two reasons. You say that we have the right to take our own lives because we are Gods. To be a God doesn't simply begin and end with taking one's own life. To be a God means to have infinite power, to give life and to cause death. If you have created yourself, and given yourself the body you live in and sustain it, then you can take your own life. But since you had no say in coming into this world, nor choose to which country, ethnicity or family you were born into, then it's futile to claim you are a God. Your body functions without your help, your heat beats without your interference or permission day in and day out. You are weak (and as are we all) and if you are hanging from the edge of a cliff (by accident) you do not call yourself, but call out and say 'God help me.' You and I both know you are not calling yourself at that moment, but THE God. We are not Gods because we do not have any authority, but we have free will. And some use that free will to end their own lives. I will say human beings can call themselves Gods (although that will never happen) the day they can make the sun rise from its opposite direction, turn day into night, cause rain, create oceans, mountains, the heavens and everything in between.
The second point you mentioned that I also disagree with is you said that a person takes their own life to relief their pain. But I want to know who has been to the other side and can confirm that suicide is the end of pain? What if it was the beginning of worse pain?
Life is sacred and every breath is a blessing. And I agree with you, it's easy to say that when one's life has no real struggles or deep tragedies. However, this does not in any way mean that hopelessness is something that should be praised or encouraged. Disappointments and tragedies are finite, but hope is infinite and this is what billions of people live on, even when they don't know where their next meal is coming from.
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interesting point of view
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there is everything wrong with suicide except you are terminally ill, anything outside of this makes it a selfish act, you cannot kill yourself just because you are fed up, unhappy or "depressed"
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Most of my pain comes from the morns around me, dose this justify murder? Not trying to be a troll but if i blow your brains all over the wall because i find you intolerably annoying my argument for doing it would be based on the same predications of alleviating my pain. I don't think violence inflicted on the self or others is ever truly a solution to discomfort FYI but i think it is an interesting counter point of view.
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The only difference is that my body is my property, not yours.
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I don't agree with your entire view point but it is interesting.
I plan on being around in the 2100's.
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sure.
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I don't even age. Video Proof
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I do not agree...life is the name of patience...and everyone who is facing trouble in life must put himself in a way to get rid off....so we should prepare ourself for challenges in life.
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I totally disagree with each word of this article.
Suicide is wrong by every point of view : philosophy, religion... even biology !
All other the world you see creature making their best to stay alive, and keep away from danger.
Suicide is not only a non sense, but the opposite of every natural act that makes any creature.
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If natural beings do commit suicide in the natural environment then it is natural.
You answer your own argument.
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great post - for me, when someone chooses suicide it is an act of regaining control, i have been very close a couple of times, really glad i failed, i see the beauty of life now!
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What nonsense ! Are you trying to support suicide ? You clearly need to study spiritual knowledge.
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No, I am not trying to support suicide.
Spirituality is make-believe bullshit.
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Are you Serious,
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very strong article
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Very controversial. I just had to read it upon seeing the headline.
I am honestly not a very deep dude. I am not philosophical and neither am I interested in politics.
But I like to think I respect everyone's way of life. I wrote about it before, but I believe that suffering in the world comes about from our own personal declarations of approval that when combined, creates a collective consciousness which most of it will not admit to.
Using this case as an example...
Two friends come together to talk about their good friend's suicide. One is extremely distraught. The other is strong and consoling him.
Deep down in the first friend, he thinks suicide is fucked up and wrong. He declares that. He wonders why there is suffering in the world.
Deep down in the second friend, he feels at ease for this tragic event has distracted him from his own problems. He also gets a chance to do a good deed, which is to be there for his friend now. He does not say it, but that feeling of ease was really what he needed in life. He feels empowered even.
Is suicide right or wrong? I don't know. I am just one person. The world has 7.5 billion people and things will continue they way they as we evolve. I can't stop it. Laws cannot even stop them entirely.
All I have to say is, happiness is not really a choice anymore. Self-help people like to talk about it, coercing people to take responsibility for their own life. But that's impossible for some. You must realize that.
How can you say happiness is a choice to a starving kid in Africa? A clinical depressed person? A lady who just got raped? A child who has cancer? The list goes on.
I agree with you on the fact that suicide is what it is. It exists. Right or wrong is another thing altogether.
You live and you let others live and some choose to die. You just have to accept that's a fact of life, and death now. Brave post @kyriacos
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On many occasions I have considered suicide. In the end, it is a choice. Sometimes in life, we are confronted with so much pain and agony about our own shortcomings and failures that we just want to check out. We feel that by our own actions we are no longer worthy to be alive and really to save face, so to speak, the honorable thing to do in the cultural that we happen to be in at the time is to end our life
What has kept me in the game, however, is knowing that I am under contract. I am here to deal with my own personal defects in my character, and I know that if don’t t deal with them this time, I will be back again to deal with them the next time. In other words, we don’t get to graduate until we pass all the exams with an acceptable score.
Sometimes people reach a point where they realize that what they are confronted with where ever they are at in the game is in surmountable. There is no further point in continuing and so the choice is to take themselves out their present misery. They will return because each and everyone us are spiritual beings and we are learning how to take responsibility for the realities that we have created.
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On many occasions I have considered suicide. In the end, it is a choice. Sometimes in life, we are confronted with so much pain and agony about our own shortcomings and failures that we just want to check out. We feel that by our own actions we are no longer worthy to be alive and really to save face, so to speak, the honorable thing to do in the cultural that we happen to be in at the time is to end our life
What has kept me in the game, however, is knowing that I am under contract. I am here to deal with my own personal defects in my character, and I know that if don’t t deal with them this time, I will be back again to deal with them the next time. In other words, we don’t get to graduate until we pass all the exams with an acceptable score.
Sometimes people reach a point where they realize that what they are confronted with where ever they are at in the game is in surmountable. There is no further point in continuing and so the choice is to take themselves out their present misery. They will return because each and everyone us are spiritual beings and we are learning how to take responsibility for the realities that we have created.
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The only thing I would say to a suicidal person would be, death will always come. If one can accept that probably can wait it out.
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@kyriacos Thank you for your perspective. I believe spirituality and freedom are important factors. If one believes in life after death, that the body is merely a physical vessel, that there is higher worlds above this causal world, then perhaps it's all right to want to escape. Couple that with the idea of freedom - does one have the right to end their OWN life - and you have an interesting case. I suppose if freedom is exercised to the fullest, one has the right to do as they please with the worldly that creation has given them.
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Some people don't believe in spirituality. Even if they do then there is nothing wrong in ending one's life a few years earlier. Life ends at some point anyways.
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What's the line, when is it wrong? Is it wrong for a teenager to commit suicide?
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I totally agree with your points. What is use of living a life that is more miserable than death? They say it is the right of GOD to give and take lives, we have no right to end our life. But if so called GOD watches everything, why He cannot help these people. Why so much ineqaulity has been in the world? If anyone is suffering from a non curable disease and have to depend totally on others from atking food to pee. I strongly agree that in thses cases the death is much better. euthanasia is still not legal in my country that is really very disgusting.
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i am agree with the author
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Like
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Yeah, life is a trap.
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...Η αντικειμενικότητα της κάθε άποψης είναι συνέπεια των εμπειριών του ατόμου που την εκφράζει και άρα καθαρά υποκειμενική . Ωραίο άρθρο πάντως. resteem
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Thanks for this post, so sensible. I know that some religions feel that suicide is not the last resort, I don't belong to any religion, I just grew up in Christianity and try to apply the best of those values in my everyday life. When I hear of this subject, especially now that people with horrible illnesses want to fly to the Digitas clinic in Switzerland to have a dignified ending of their choice, they are being lambasted for doing so. If someone is caught helping them they could face jail time. How silly is that? How interfering. If someone has reached that point then they should be allowed to follow it through unhindered. What the authorities would be better off doing is setting up some sort of tribunal system where at least two doctors and a magistrate or social worker for instance, whatever it takes, can decide if the plea of the would be suicider is worthy. Meaning, no-one can gain from their early demise. I would be happy to consider any suggestion along those lines, better then my own, but NEVER to condemn a would be suicidal person for their own decision. Well put kyriacos.
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Generally speaking, one should have the right to do with their life as they please and ending it if they find it unbearable is indeed something people should do. What's actually egoistic is wanting to take away their right to do so because you would suffer because of the loss.
But there is a good reason to still try and prevent suicides. A large number of people with unsuccessful suicide attempts end up being happy to be alive and regret their decision. For many people, resorting to suicide has been an overreaction to their circumstances by their own admissions later. This is why I feel it's justified to still view suicides as a tragedy and as something worth preventing if possible.
Additionally, there are people that decide to end their own lives for very different reasons, not just life being unbearable, difficult or painful. Like some kooks wanting to end their lives on a high or something (like the guy from the death metal band Dissection). As stupid and vile as his beliefs might have been, he was absolutely within his right to put the full stop of his existence when he saw fit.
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I liked how you wrote an article to which many people might not agree. I agree to the fact that sometimes it's just not worth living and suicide seems a better option to come out of all the difficulties. Sometimes, we really don't have any choice. It's pretty much like how we think depression is not a sickness and can go away with just us becoming more stronger mentally!!
But in some cases suicide is not the decision of the one who did it, but someone else. Like this blue whale game causing havoc all around the globe. It makes even those people suicide, who weren't considering suicide an option earlier. So, yes these things should also be noted.
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Um.... I looked up information about this Blue Whale game. No one is forcing anyone to "play" it, or to jump off a building or whatever the final challenge is to kill themselves. It's pretty much sheer stupidity and Darwinism in action. Bottom line is yes it IS in fact the decision of the person that is playing the game and then chooses to do something stupid to get themselves killed at the end of it. If someone is stupid enough to jump off a building because an online game tells them too? They probably were choosing to kill themselves.It's insane to try to blame other people for someone else's choices. because: Personally responsibility, and brains, and stuff.
Just boggled by the ridiculous hysteria over this Blue Whale nonsense, as if a teen mafia was abducting innocent people from their beds and holding them at gun point and pushing them off a roof to "commit suicide by other people's choice". What the heck is the matter with people that think this way? Sorry, but I hail from a day when there was a such thing as common sense. Apparently that's gone missing in a large portion of today's population.
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Well, I have to say, you are totally underestimating the blue whale game. You probably don't know that a skilled person can actually play with your mind. I have met with a mystic, who made me lose my anger in a second and who told my accurate past which not even my parents knew. I have mentioned about that in one of my older posts here. https://steemit.com/story/@siddartha/mystics-do-exist-my-first-and-only-contact-with-one
Anyways, about the blue whale game, these admins target people who are in depression or feel low confidence for some reason. You don't require a gun to make people do what they wish, there are just ton of other ways. Like humiliation, blackmail etc. I'll just say that maybe you haven't never seen the bad days or probably you have managed to dodge all the weak points in your life. But everyone is not so strong.
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I suffered sudden hearing loss two years ago and basically went deaf overnight. And had to live like that for at least four months until I could get a a powerful hearing aid which allowed me to hear only 4/10 words in a sentence. Then I had to wait another six months to get a cochlear implant. I also endured vertigo attacks, permanent damage to my balance, and constant screaming tinnitus for about 4 months. So, I would probably say that your assessment of my dodging bad days or weak points is way off base.
Honestly, if someone is stupid enough to do anything harmful to themselves because some stranger tells them to is probably weak-minded or just plain stupid. As to your point about the person being depressed already, well then I don't think you cane blame the game. Maybe the person is playing the game as an excuse to blame the game for their suicide because they are too weak to even take responsibility for their last act. Regardless of why, people do have a choice. A choice to play the game. A choice to kill themselves. Choice choices choices. Don't blame a game for the choices. I think the entire thing sounds really stupid. Maybe it will be a good thing for the species to weed out people who are so weak and easily brainwashed. Needless to say, I don't have any respect for some wimpy person that chooses to play a suicide game knowing that if they do ultimately follow through, people will blame the game for what they did and not them. Maybe this is just weak people's way of choosing suicide while scapegoating the blame for their choice!
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Well, I will just say, don't even think of this playing these game. You are in your world. If you somehow end up playing it, then there is no coming back. Everyone is weak in this world in their own ways. If you know the other person's weakness, you can play with their lives. This is what this game does.
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See, that is where I don't agree with you. I could play this game, and send them an email telling them to screw off if I got to a thing I didn't like. I probably would not choose to play only because it seems utterly retarded and a frank waste of time. Saying there is no turning back because of the game is hogwash. Anyone that plays the game and the commits suicide wanted to commit suicide anyway and would have latched onto some other excuse to do it. Nothing to do with a stupid "game".
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Well, since you have nothing to lose nor afraid of facing death, meaning to say you are bolder than lots of human beings alive.
Another food of thoughts is that our brain is just electrical signals that control our behavior, our movements and being alive. However, who or what controls your brain? Why does it act such a way? Why you feel so miserable until wanting to take your own life?
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I supported the view of selfishness a few years ago. But literature has allowed me to expand consciousness and to treat with understanding of such things as suicide. But I believe that suicide is justified only when there is no way out.
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I agree. But there are different situations. For example, in Ukraine there was a game "Blue Whale". This is a dangerous game. In which children were forced to commit suicide. Parents did not even know it.
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Having being in this position and having my life saved, I agree with the majourity of your post. I also felt what's the point in it all, like you say electrical signals with some chemical reactions. People should have a choice and there should be no stigma. I know how hurt my family and friends were, these are things I never considered when I attempted suicide. Relationships and adventure are what makes the world worth living. I have since found leaving my home and surrounding, liberating. New man and all that. Good post, keep alive
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You say you're in pain and have been for quite a while, that's physical suffering that might or might not get better. I can agree with you that suicide can be the best option for some people that see no hope of their lives getting better.
Unfortunately, a lot of people, many of them young, commit suicide over love troubles and bad break-ups. These suicides are wrong. At that moment, the pain seems unbearable, life loses all meaning etc etc, but these are feelings that fade away and these people could resume their lives after the worst is over. Every life lost in this type of suicide is a pity.
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good read, personally I think suicide is a cowards act, only cuz to me they cant handle the good times and the hard times of life. So they take the easy way out, instead of facing problems and coming out alive with solutions, or maybe keep having the same damn problems.
either way Ill be alive in the 2100, so you know
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Dealing with the loss of someone close to you due to suicide is one of the hardest griefs to reconcile.
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Nice article !
Strongly presented your perception .
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the life we live is just a dream !! when do we wake up from dreams? that is after death! nice post @kyriacos
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I believe we live in simulations where suicide is an early withdrawl from current simulation: if there is plenty left to offer, then it's a lo
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Have you read the Tibetan Book of the Dead? In it there's numerous pointers that this is indeed a simulation but that "trying again" isn't given, far from it, it's like walking on the edge of a knife and the abyss of complete destruction/nihilism is on one side and complete surrender (no more simulation) on the other while walking the edge is simply Reincarnating and Continuing, the point being on progressing through the simulation of course.
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nah, we just die
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after death, we will live a heavier life! we must prepare supplies from now before death!
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What dies is the body. Some people live for ever.
Neither fire nor wind, birth nor death can erase our good deeds.
Leo is one of those, he understood brotherhood, read his greats and at the time most popular work of his, Awakening, because I doubt you even knew it existed.
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It doesn't matter if we live in the memories or others since ourselves will be dead to experience this perspective.
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woosh over your head
It's not about you experiencing that perspective.
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No estoy de acuerdo en pensar que el suicidio es la salida. Muchas veces creemos que estamos en un callejon sin salida , y nada de lo que nos rodea nos permite disfrutar de la vida a lo mejor es el momento de pedir ayuda a los que nos rodean para que nos puedan ayudar a salir de esa fuerte depresion en la que nos encontramos por el motivo que sea dolor, sentimientos negativos,...
Buscar ayuda en el momento oportuno nos puede abrir una vision nueva de la vida
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That in itself doesn't cause unhappiness I think. It's injustice (or comparison with something better) that causes unhappiness. It's something like that Marx quote: "A house may be large or small; as long as the neighboring houses are likewise small, it satisfies all social requirement for a residence. But let there arise next to the little house a palace, and the little house shrinks to a hut. The little house now makes it clear that its inmate has no social position at all to maintain."
I was watching the first episode of the Planet Earth II series a couple nights ago, and I don't know if I'm growing softer as I grow older but I found it depressing rather than entertaining: deer getting ripped apart by Komodo dragons, or ants spraying poison in crabs' eyes so they go blind and lost and die, or sticky seedpods from trees getting attached to birds so that the birds will carry them to a new location but sometimes the seeds weigh them down so they can't fly but that's also good cos then they provide the trees with fertilizer... It's just constant struggle and eating each other. Which is not new information, of course, so maybe I was just in a bad mood at that moment. I wish someone would make a cheetah-like bot here, whereby every time someone posts a beautiful pic from nature, the bot would automatically post a savage one!
An organism finds meaning when it looks at an object and figures out a way to 'use' it, or relate it to its interests. A depressed individual (one unable to use its surroundings, or overwhelmed for other reasons) will indeed see it as a pile of shit. No use to it. Another will think to use shit as fertilizer or energy source etc., and by doing that "imbue" the thing with meaning.
Another way to look at it is that we have certain values, and if we find a way to relate everything (or most things) to the attainment and satisfaction of those values, then we will say "life is meaningful". But if we can't, then life will be seen as "falsifying" our values, just like stairs may "falsify" the value "I want to go inside the store" of a wheelchair person and cause "depression" in him, because life is not in that case "bendable" to his desires. Whereas the able-bodied person will see the same thing and find playful meaning in it, and even draw numbers on the steps and hop up and down them for the sake of it, adding insult to the wheelchair person's injury, or invent the slinky. In one sense he gave meaning to an otherwise meaningless thing. But in another sense, stairs are objectively slinkable.
I think it's because any religion that didn't say otherwise, didn't survive (its proponents either quit it, or they all killed themselves!)
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That's a very sad and lonely way to look at life. If we are just meat and electrical impulses it makes sense not to be overcome by feelings that lead to suicide because they are just an illusion. My friend committed suicide earlier this year at age 21, and I'd like to think that instead of throwing herself in front of a train she could have tried to change her perspective on life and lived on. I know it was her choice but, it's too big of a decision to make for someone who is already in a bad mental state and not their normal one. People can change
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People usually consider suicidal people as weak characters, although the opposite is true. It takes alot of courage and strength to kill yourself. Could you do it??
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I like the way on how you express that people commits suicide because we are God of our own life, of our own body. So we can do whatever we want. But its not because of the religion, although some do not commit it cause of being afraid of going to hell or dis-obeying the words of God. But you must not do it because LIFE is so precious. You will not feel pain all day/all night. Everything is temporary. If you feel pain today, it does not mean that you will feel it on your entire life. If you feel pain cause you lost in a singing contest, then you know that you lack on something. So to perform well and be almost perfect, you need to practice. Not just go on the corner of your room and cry. It's the way we think. Suicide is not a solution, it's the way of running out to solve the problem.
I really respect how you think but I also want to share my thoughts after reading this. I do believe that life is precious and not everyone got the opportunity to live as long as they want. So we must cherish every breathe that we are taking. :)
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as long as the person tries every option to feel better and still would rather die then yes i believe everyone should have the right to take their own life.
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Two things about your post…
I AGREE:
This is also why I believe psychology is nonsensical and borderline scammy.
I do believe most people in the business of helping people work through emotional issues have a gift. And on the other hand, there are some people with too little life-experience and/or compassion for others, which makes owning licensure iffy.
I DISAGREE:
cannot possibly get in the shoes of another person.
That’s what the enemy of darkness would have one believe. I don’t buy it. I have enough life-experiences to be GENUINELY empathic in some regards. On the other hand, there are things I would not be able to say, “I know what you’re going through”.
On that note, here’s a link to a post I made nearly a decade ago. I think it still rings true today. If you are so inclined, please read, and I welcome your feedback.
https://steemit.com/suicide/@spiritualmatters/suicide-is-never-really-the-answer
Peace.
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Suicide is very selfish, you think the world is to hard so you just want out! What about those you leave behind grieving and in pain! You've caused more pain than just going on with your life would have been!
And the best reason for not doing it:
"Though shalt not Kill"
Nuff said!
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Ohh the title only brought me to this post. Good read!!
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Congratulations @kyriacos!
Your post was mentioned in the hit parade in the following category:
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Very good article, and I agree with @kyriacos 100%. However for many people this will be a very controversial subject, depending on their perspective of reality.
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Thank you for addressing a difficult topic from a contentious angle. I've known a few veterans that committed suicide and it seems often we are so focused on the pain that they leave behind that we forget the pain that they lived with. Some pain goes too deep to ever be healed. Some experiences and afflictions that we live through change the electrochemical compositions of our brains. We all know, hopefully, the things that can be done to help suicidally depressed people. But ultimately it is their life and their choice. It seems odd to make an effort to humanize the individual and shame the individual's choice.
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Suicide is such a difficult subject for me. I actually endured times when my mind was captured by such thoughts. I'm quite familiar with the views of the existentialists, and tend to agree with them to a certain degree, but still am not sure what is my stance on suicide.
I do think that this is a type of situation where the "holder" of the body has complete autonomy, and at the same time this feels wrong, and I'm not speaking from the religious standpoint, I'm agnostic.
Everytime I ask someone what is the point of life, what is the meaning that life bears, I get a rather trivial response, that denotes that they didn't think much of that, or that they implicitly accepted the narratives disseminated in our society. But I enjoy, and somewhat see the need for such narratives, because if we would all come to the conclusion that life is The Myth of Sisyphus, why should we bother to live, why not end this nightmare, why not borrow all the money you can, and just kill yourself after you lived lavishly for some time...
I do feel that thoughts of suicide arise when you feel completely lost, helpless, and when everything seems pointless, is seems to give birth to such an apathy, that suicide seems like the most bearable things from them all. But is it really worth it? Are you indeed in a position to make such a decision rationally when the decision is practically made for you by you without your you even knowing it? I don't know. I really don't know...
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Billionaire brands, world leaders, dictators, New World Order, corrupt bankers, the Freemasons, the young, the old, the rich, the poor, the upper class, the middle class, lower class, working class, the jobless , the homeless. You can be one of them or all of these. At the end of the day it doesn`t really matter cos when a new day begins we are all given a gift of at least 24 hours, and inside of those 24 hours. When all have 3 choices in life. You can either die, live or survive?
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Nothing wrong in suicide???....i object....one who commits suicide goes forever ...but thise whose lives are associated with the victim ...what about them??....
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We all "go forever" at some point. At some point all of us have to leave others behind. Your point?
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Some do it prematurely, out of desperation and in the moment, without consideration for their acts, the point.
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