So is taxation theft?

jasonshick (65) · 7 years ago

I have gone back and forth about taxes for several years now. In some regards I feel they are necessary to take care of some "groups" in our society. Also having standard things like education, health care and drivable roads are things where tax dollars are necessary.

But then on the other hand, the more I learn and the more I see how society works, the more inclined I become to say, down with taxes. Taxing those who work hard and try to get somewhere in life is very disincentivizing. When you have 'welfare' states, nothing gets accomplished. I hate seeing people who are lazy as fuck, month after month go collect their welfare chack and don't add a drop of productivity to the economy. There has to be a balance.

As I move further into my working career and further up the pay scale, the conservative in me really starts to loathe our governments and the taxes they impose.

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declutter69 (40) · 7 years ago

The only countries with a welfare state or something like a welfare state are in Europe, mostly Western Europe, in Japan, Korea, Taiwan, the United States, Canada, and Australia and New Zealand.

What do these countries have in common?

They are the RICH COUNTRIES. They are the countries with the highest taxes. They are also the countries with high levels of education, and longer periods of subsidized education. Nearly all of them have socialized healthcare to some extent.

What countries lack a welfare state?

Mexico. Central America. Probably most of South America. Most of Africa, excepting perhaps South Africa and Libya (which was kind of communist), somewhat. Russia. Saudi Arabia. The rest of the world.

They also have low taxes. They have lower levels of education, generally, and some even have populations of illiterates. Some don't require education to high school. The educated often leave the country to go to one of those high-tax countries.

Also, education and health care are part of the welfare state, except in the US, where health care is mostly a private business.

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apiprincz (52) · 7 years ago

Taxation is just a policy to extort the poor because we learnt that the rich, powerful escape the scourge of paying this taxes rather the govt use this money to incentivize the rich and at the end of the day, the whole chapter seems like a plot..

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4 votes

broken.akay (53) · 7 years ago

Well no, and yes. I'm starting a company btw. And I found out, that the government kiss the feet of successful entrepreneurs, why, they create jobs and bring in money , the more money goes around, the more taxes are paid, the happier the government is. So the government don't mess with successful entrepreneurs, those entrepreneurs know the law and can know very quickly if they are being screwed with. On the other hand, normal people don't know the law, so the government try to screw them because they think it is normal. So is more of the, do you know the law and can you fight against it, rather than being rich or poor.

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declutter69 (40) · 7 years ago

The rich don't pay much in taxes because the government has laws that allow for donations to charities to be deducted, for business losses to be deducted, or spread out over time, and so forth. These are all pro business tax deductions and tax credits. These deductions help businesses to grow and prosper, while the poor cannot.

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hanki (55) · 7 years ago

Extortion & expropriation is always unethical & immoral. Every decent human being should be in favor of abolishing taxation!

declutter69 (40) · 7 years ago

Without taxes, there can be no government, and without a government, you cannot have private property. Without private property, expropriation vanishes, because all use of any space or object is like "expropriation" from everyone else.

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hanki (55) · 7 years ago

Private property is prior to the government and exists not because but despite of the government.

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empress-eremmy (65) · 7 years ago

It isn't just theft, it is really really organized theft in my opinion

terrybrock (71) · 7 years ago

Another good 'un, Adam! Thank you for doing this. Upvoted!

edave (56) · 7 years ago

People need to be challenged just like in the video to see it through. That's how they will get realization.

In today's world it's really hard for some to grasp what's really around them. There are a lot of distractions that bypass the notion that we are at the mercy of controlled systems that do not truly consider the welfare of the people.

Only with concise analysis about what we do and face everyday, we realize all the contradictory aspects of day-to-day life.

endless.drugs (65) · 7 years ago (edited)

3 votes

lafferin (34) · 7 years ago

Put the power of votes on blockchain tech. Laws would be voted on by all people belonging to a blockchain creating a virtual entity (just like a state or company) but with legitimacy for all its members "citizens". All citizens would have the right to vote for, against or abstain from a raised issue. Give the people the right to change their vote in realtime and make sure only living people are counted for the votes (laws should not be made by them). Laws would be enforced only if accepted by the majority of people and all laws must be transparent. This would eliminate government and truly empower citizens to be both lawmakers, law students and law enforcers (if a critical mass is reached to actually form an independent body with a referendum).
Of course, in monarchy one person would have the power to override any number of votes cast, in an oligarchy a smaller group of "elites" would have the same effect. To make it truly democratic you would need to ensure active participation of all members on ALL issues. And this is where political "parties" would form, where you would opt to give your voting power to them (this should not be permitted at all!), people should not be classified in groups, only solutions, groups should not be based on favor for a certain person or group or ideology but on the number of people giving consent for something.

chekohler (70) · 7 years ago

In my opinion tax in its current state is theft we are being asked to give away way to much of what we earn and do not receive fair market value for in goods and services for that kind of contribution

All we doing is finding a bloated beuracratic titanic of a system that’s constantly heading off to an ice berg and we’ve been bailing them out! Many of the services they provide the private sector could do better, cheaper, faster and more efficient

Think of all the government services you pay for but would or will never use in any case. I think tax should be reduced and instead of us having to Foot the bill every time shit goes sideways with the budget government needs to say ok let’s see how best we can spend what we’ve got

It’s the only way to reduce the size and influence of government and let the people start governing and taking accountability for how they live their lives! We need to reduce this unhealthy codependency on a big centralized service that I feel is an obsolete system in the modern era

declutter69 (40) · 7 years ago

If you're wealthy, you're not supposed to get back in services what you pay in. You are supposed to pay more. There are people who cannot work who need to be supported.

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chekohler (70) · 7 years ago

I don’t see why we always pointing fingers at the wealthy as the problem and why should government have a monopoly on charity? Like it’s the only way the poor and disenfranchised can get help. That’s the mindset that turns us off being charitable because we think oh the government will take care of that responsiblity and robbing us of our humanity to want to help our fellow man and be charitable

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declutter69 (40) · 7 years ago

I had to look at your profile. Perhaps we have different attitudes because you're in South Africa and I'm in the US.

I can't really respond to your points, because they don't resemble my world, at all. We, in the US, don't really point fingers at the wealthy as a problem. I do, but I'm in the minority. The government here does not have a monopoly on charity -- in fact, many people here think the government should do more to help the poor.

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chekohler (70) · 7 years ago

Yes, I suppose you're right we live under different governments so the political climate is different. Being under socialist democracy has turned us into a welfare state with the majority of the country looking for a handout. Free education, free house, free money and there simply isn't enough to go around and when they don't get their way its looting and riots until some politician promises the freebie train will continue

They've just increased the VAT (value added tax) on all products to cover the latest shortfall and its only going to serve to squeeze the middle class reduce buying power and push some further into the working and poorer classes

Having said that I'm sure there are still similarities when it comes to the way tax is spent, im sure the US government is just as bloated as the South African one and plenty of those taxes never reach the correct programs because they are sucked up by salaries and programs that were funded but never got off the ground.

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declutter69 (40) · 7 years ago

Free house?!? Are you serious? We don't have that. We have a lot of homelessness and "couch surfing". Whenever I make phone calls for political purposes, I find that a small fraction of the frequent voters are homeless. These are the most engaged citizens in the community, and they don't have a stable address.

When I say this is because the government supports speculation in real estate over housing everyone, people are baffled. They don't see the government playing an active part in encouraging the market. They just say to raise taxes to pay for homeless shelters and some housing. When I suggest public housing, most of the people disagree (if they even know what public housing is), and then suggest "affordable housing", which, they don't know, is just privatized public housing -- but it's structured to help keep the private real estate aloft, or to even increase its value -- it's the rich using the poor as a vehicle to increase their own wealth. (Again, I say this, and they think I'm nuts.)

Mostly, though, they ignore the homeless people, and fear them. When they become visible, the police are called. Sometimes, if they are mentally ill, something goes wrong, and the police end up killing the person. People don't really care, most of the time.

Our taxes are probably higher, but a big chunk of that money goes to pay for invasions of small countries that most American people cannot locate on the map.

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chekohler (70) · 7 years ago

Yes if you earn less than 300 dollars a month you are entitled to apply for a free house. The waiting list as you can imagine is quite long but what people do once they get one irks me. Instead of now having a stable address and now using that as a platform to go out and look for work, they actually build an informal home on the property or live with relatives and then rent the home out for additional income to those who are still on the waiting list. Giving away things like homes for free is never going to solve much, yes it does give hope to some but it doesnt encourage pride, ownership and the will to better yourself

Oh I completely agree that government supports policy to increase and keep the housing market out of reach for most its cronyism and exploiting as many people as possible, stripping them of their dignity and making them feel powerless, this is how you keep them docile and can continue to strip away parts of their income through various policies and so-called public institutions.

Oh for sure your taxes fund some of the most heinous crimes known to mankind but you're America what can we say about it? The US can strong arm pretty much anyone to get what they want! Its also the reason why anyway we can reduce government power and reach I feel is a good thing, absolute power corrputs and we know this!

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skycornish (55) · 7 years ago

Kokesh 2020! Keep up the great work!!

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khairilanwar90 (43) · 7 years ago

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3 votes

altafwani (49) · 7 years ago

on a recharge of 50 we get only 40
isn't that theft
on most of the items we have a tax rate of 28%
that is totally a big theft

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kevirizal (64) · 7 years ago

it is a great struggle salute for @adamkokesh

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roberthm80 (25) · 7 years ago

very good!

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iamgun (46) · 7 years ago

good !!

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edy90 (61) · 7 years ago

thanks for the information mr. @adamkokesh.
you are great at making useful postings.

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aminulislamamir (4) · 7 years ago

Good job. But I didn't understand anything..............lol

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sunlit7 (59) · 7 years ago

I've never read anywhere where tariffs collected go right into corporate pockets...do you have more information on this?...otherwise the way it's put is misleading. If you mislead you can't get a truly objective answer.

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dreamzar (57) · 7 years ago

She will be happy to receive a card from you today @adamkokesh. your pogram will be the exact logic of a person who has not known libertian.

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wiralhokseumawe (60) · 7 years ago

Almost everyone will agree that they would prefer 0 taxes and 0 government expenditures, but the privatization of all governments is logistically impossible. Although the government consistently wasted trillions on a meaningless war, MIC,seen from his smile.The man sounded like his heart was in the right place.

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brockstory (49) · 7 years ago

example? when is government needed?

wiralhokseumawe (60) · 7 years ago

government is needed to improve people's welfare, public service and regional competitiveness. Increasing the welfare of the community is expected to be accelerated through the realization of service improvement in the region and community empowerment or the participation of the community in the implementation of development in the region. but with many corrupt officials increasing taxes, the minimum wage is one of the questions? for what government? if only killing poor people with high tax rates so born a country full of unemployment !!

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brockstory (49) · 7 years ago

Look up mutual aid society's, as we naturally want to help the poor and don't have to be robbed to do it. public service, like what exactly? and competitiveness? that is a joke lol government restrict's competition. So we have no need for taxes if human's can build car's and cell phone's without being taxed I would hope we could build road's lol.

declutter69 (40) · 7 years ago

Cars and cell phones are heavily dependent on the government(s). Cars run better when you have roads. Cell phones require laws about the radio spectrum.

Also, the fundamental research about cell phones was done by the governments. The early car business was made possible partly by government procurement of expensive cars.

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brockstory (49) · 7 years ago

so karl benz got help from the government to invent the car?

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brockstory (49) · 7 years ago

If you mean the government passed laws to help AT&T and restrict competition then yes they did.

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brockstory (49) · 7 years ago

Also yes of course car's work better with road's the question is do you trust government to spend your money or do you trust yourself to spend your money, if you got to decide what road's you used and only paid for those road's you used it would fit the need's of the public rather then the politician's and road contractor's.

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sunlit7 (59) · 7 years ago

Whenever somebody finds themselves having to call 911. You really think public shaming people is going to keep people from committing crimes?.....

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brockstory (49) · 7 years ago

...They can put them in prison if they so choose, but Where I live crime is non-existent.

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sunlit7 (59) · 7 years ago

Where is that utopia that you live in?

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brockstory (49) · 7 years ago

Kent city Michigan

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sunlit7 (59) · 7 years ago

I happen to not live to far from there and I know that's not true.

Kent City, Michigan, violent crime, on a scale from 1 (low crime) to 100, is 50. Violent crime is composed of four offenses: murder and nonnegligent manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. The US average is 31.1.

Kent City, Michigan, property crime, on a scale from 1 (low) to 100, is 42. Property crime includes the offenses of burglary, larceny-theft, motor vehicle theft, and arson. The object of the theft-type offenses is the taking of money or property, but there is no force or threat of force against the victims. The US average is 38.1.

There are eighteen registered sex offenders living in Kent City, that's one out of every 67 residents.

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gvincentjosephm (59) · 7 years ago

If the tax is too high, then it could be a theft already. The government is doing that for centuries.

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hendrimirza (51) · 7 years ago

Indeed we have to pay taxes, but in fact there are many people who are lazy banyar, both for reasons of busyness and others

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tuntunwin (9) · 7 years ago

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istvanl85 (27) · 7 years ago

Hey. Just discovered your channel. Really like your work. All the best.

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azroel (42) · 7 years ago

Go ahead @adamkokesh to become a president 2020.

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lovestore (36) · 7 years ago

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chipochipo (59) · 7 years ago

Im from South korea. We also have taxation theft from goverment. Compared to nations budget and taxation`s amount we think that our welfare is so little.
I think universal welfare should be expanded.

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kcarchserv (48) · 7 years ago

The truth will set you free. Thank you for all your work Adam.

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socialmisfit (39) · 7 years ago

I believe its theft only if you take without permission. If you give freely its not theft, it's just out of stupidity or altruism. If you use threats of violence without a weapon it is strong arm robbery. If you use threats of violence with a weapon it is just plain old arm robbery! I think its important to call a crime what it actually is regardless of who commits it. Keep up the good work Adam!

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dullhawk (66) · 7 years ago

It can't be anything else. Theft by any other name...

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yungchief (63) · 7 years ago

When you show people the right way to do things then then realise they the government has always lied and cheated them. Thanks for this

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