You claim the pool is being raped, but I've yet to see anybody provide evidence that it is indeed being raped or that people are being harmed as a result.
RE: FLAG WARS - Where "might makes right" continues to rule
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FLAG WARS - Where "might makes right" continues to rule
hmmm, well, on steem.supply we can see the percent of the reward pool he is claiming is pretty high, over 1 percent http://steem.supply/@haejin . Considering the amount of users on here, I think even small percentages count for a lot. nearly a million users, I am horrible at math so i am not going to try to figure out how much he is taking from each person. It seems to stand that if that percent was distributed more equally more people would get better rewards, since by what I understand there is a fixed number of rewards each day, hence the voting power.
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I mean like its not really directly hurting anyone (though a lot of things dont directly hurt people but are still violent irl) but it definitely cannot be fair. Its not majority rule either that gives him such high rewards, there is a clear bias with his supporters. I suppose this isnt entirely violent either but again, not fair.
Do you believe that having a monopoly on the reward pool, (even since 1 percent seems like a pretty small number I think it proportionally pretty large) is unfair? Is this unfairness violence? I dont know.
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Unfairness is NOT violence! Force is violence. Coercion is the non-physical manifestation. Is anyone coercing votes for haejin? THAT would be violence.
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I am glad you have an opinion on that, I havent thought about it hard or long enough to figure it all out yet. Everything in life is a little unfair so yeah that makes sense. Thank you!
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There is a whole philosophy based upon it, the Non-Aggression Principle. It is lovely, and helps sort a LOT of stuff out.
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ehh I have heard a lot about that principle but I have not studied it yet. Too many things to study! Only so much time and brain space!
Its an important one, sorta like non violent communication I suppose?
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Ahhhh, so now you want the system to distribute the rewards pool based on what is 'fair'? Who gets to determine that? You? Me? And if that determination then identifies one individual who violates that determination, does that then justify attacking him?
That is not evidence of harm. That is evidence of envy.
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I suppose it might be envy, but im not envious. If a majority of stakeholders on Steemit deem it is unfair isnt that who determines it? Because there is no central ruling people body on here its up to the majority isnt it?
I suppose there is a spiritual level behind this too, but at that point im not sure about anything
I know that it does not justify being violent against violence, of course, thats rediculous. I want a different solution, because I do see a problem, and I am not the only one who sees it. I dont know what that peaceful solution is though, at this point.
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I must commend your unpopular and poorly understood position. I mostly agree with you. I just stumbled into an old internet friend when I joined steemit. He has a long history with me of being kind, caring, and very intelligent. He is one who is upvoting haejin. He does it because he follows the advice and it has made him a lot of money. My friend earned his power here, like everybody else. For people to come in and demand that he NOT be allowed to upvote who he wants to whatever level he wants does NOT sit well with me.
Here is where I get a little fuzzy... If haejin is making all that money trading, why not "pay it forward" to his steemit family and voluntarily combine things into one or two posts a day. I am not recommending clamping down on HIS free speech either, I am just saying if he cares so much about making us all rich with his advice, why can't he care enough to stop tapping the reward pool so hard?
But yeah, nothing haejin ever posted cost me anything. EVERYTHING earned here is like Vegas, you make your post and you get what you get. There is no guaranteed minimum payment... or maximum.
End mini-rant... lol!
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Everything that hajin has posted has directly cost everyone, not only you something. Despite no guarantees of minimum you're o with one entity making obscene amounts of wealth, week in and week out, directly taking away rewards from everyone else, because that's not aggressive as fuck.
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i agree with you fishyculture, it doesn't sit well with me that people want to limit rancho's upvoting. that's his to do with what he will. it also doesn't sit well with me that haejin doesn't upvote people, doesn't engage with the community, and makes many small posts a day. he is not receptive to community pressuring him. if people were like mountainjewel, you need to consolidate your posts and put so much pressure on me, and in the end i realized that it's kosher to post 1-3 times a day, i would back down. the fact that he isn't here to be a part of the community doesn't sit well with me and will not bend to consolidating posts. in the end though, even though i may not like what he is doing- i'm not sure it's fair to wage war on him. who decides who can post what-- if flagging is used like that- it's not a very safe community to be a part of.
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@mountainjewel thats the sorta issues I am having too, im morally confused about this all lol. there are so many different viewpoints on the whole thing.
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I havent been around for too long. probably just four months or less, but i do know that what Haejin is doing is wrong. let's call a spade a spade. sure, he's a good TA, peple follow his investment advices and make for themselves a fortune. They definitely would love him. who wouldnt? However, everyone knows Haejin has capitalized on this "love and support" shown to him, and despite knowing how the reward pool works, it hasn't stopped him from taking too much for a few lines he posts.
For Pete's sake take a look at those numbers, we can call it envy or whatnot, He just might have easily combined a few of these posts into a single one and no one would bother him, but no. he's decided to ignore the consequences and implications of his actions, and if this "war" is the only way to make haejin listen, then so be it.
It's the blockchain, let the users decide.
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The users would have decided LONG ago that this is wrong and immoral and not fair and fucking greedy and nothing to debate about, the only thing is that here people are incentivized to find good content and couple that with the low chance of effecting meaningful change in those obscene payouts at one's loss and possible retaliatory action, it only makes sense for one or two or max three top account to come down harder than jebus on the bankers because if it was up to "the users", he would have gotten the boot like a scum licking plagiarizing spammer does, swift and hard without apology.
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aha @fishyculture thank you for making some sense! I do agree with you. I dont want people to force anything on anyone, and maybe haejin does give good advice (I know fuck all about crypto so I have no clue). Maybe we should send him little memos asking for him to change his ways a bit to make it more fair, that way everyone wins a little more. He can keep making rewards and so can everyone else.
I think Steemit is like luck that way, who knows what your gunna get!
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Yes we have to invite a conversation about fair, and not about technically it's not objective. Fair is a consensus and not extremes, animals understand what's fair and hardly worth discussing what is fair. I know that it's not fair that someone makes more in a week than 98% of the world does in a year at the expense of everyone else, week in and week out.
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I think people who want to use that term ought to go volunteer for 100 hours at facilities that work with and counsel those who are raped. What is happening on here is not rape and each time I see it referred as such, I am appalled. How inconsiderate to those who really suffered that horrific act.
This is nothing more than fear taking over @wwf.
People are scared....the banksters in all its forms took a toll on people.
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No, this is fairness taking over. This is a sense of fairness that even animals display. Rape or not, what is happening is condemned and rightly so as there is no sense to the greed or excuse of greed when everyone can see that there's barely enough rewards to go around.
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Incorrect. This is about greed...the greed of one person meeting up with the greed of others.
This statement proves it...
Oh really. How many SP are created a week? 700K SP. What is the cap on that SP? There isnt one.
So how is there barely enough to go around?
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No it's not about greed, this is about fairness, need I link videos of dogs, and other animals exemplifying how unfair treatment and greed is not ok?
1sp/user per week.
What's the point about a cap? The point is that there's not enough.
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I am sorry but all I see is a masterful job of justifying.
You want to believe that consensus is fairness.
The Nazis overwhelming believed that it was fair to send the Jews to the gas chamber.
As I mentioned in another comment, in the US, there was an entire region of the country who believed it was just to have blacks in separate schools, restaurants and the back of the bus. It was an overwhelming consensus for decades.
Right now, today, the majority of Israelis support the genocide the Palestinians on the west bank.
All these are examples of millions of people who agree as a consensus to atrocities. Yet you use it to justify fairness. I think human history is littered with examples how it is not true.
Hell even the majority of Americans believed OJ was guilty and would have put him away for life. The consensus was fry him. The journey who was tasked with that duty and watched all the evidence decided against it.
I will ignore the fact that most of the 700K on here are not active, it is about 1/10th.
Anyway, what are you going to do with your SP? If you want anything material at this point, you need to convert it to fiat. You ask the point about a cap (actually the lack of one)? What is STEEM was $10,000? Is that enough then? Or is it still not enough? How about $50K? Is that enough for you? Or do you need $100K?
And you claim it isnt about greed (which is fear)?
By the way, are you starving right now? Living on the street? Where do you not have enough?
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I want to change my wording as well, its like, reward pool misuse rather then rape.
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Abuse or call it what it is,,pure greed.
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It is greed! Its hard not to be a little selfish sometimes, but not to the point of fucking over other people. Can you beat greed with kindness?
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Well I can tell you that greed will not be beaten with more greed.
It is sad what is happening...few learn from wars yet we still glorify them.
Look at any country after a war, look at the destruction.
That is what STEEM will look like....nothing like pooping in your own living room.
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haha pooping in your own living room? yes it is obvious that violence will not solve violence, war will not solve war, and greed will not solve greed. We must do something crazy and out of the box and solve with love. How the fuck thats going to solve our issues on planet Steem, I have no idea atm!
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Plenty of examples.
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It's not combating greed with greed, it actually makes for more rewards to go around from what I've gathered. I think STEEM will be better off and disagree with your analogy. Whilst I agree passionately that war causes only destruction that's not how I view this mission. Isn't it somewhat contradictory to use that analogy after judging the 'rewardpoolrape' analogy?
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THANK YOU. It pisses me off every time I see it.
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This is by default though.
There are only so many shares to be voted on. One user capitalizing upwards of 2% of the reward pool for everyone is akin to taking tens of thousands more shares than the next user, and self voting and circle voting is harmful to the platform because they are litereally taking away the rewards from everyone. When you flag someone you are giving those rewards back to the pool to be redistributed, in turn in the past it has been a selfless endeavor where the whales would flag post that were vote by whales, in turn it made everyone elses voting power go up 10-50x, #whaleexperiement days.
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ehh interesting things to think about. I am not so much into the technical workings of these things, but I am interested in researching it. Its really a sort of moral issue at this point I suppose. Are people trying to be like robin hood around here?
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No, it's simply the principle of self policing. I see nothing commendable about not confronting abuse. Sometimes we have to fight fire with fire and in this instance we have a oil well fire that can only be put out by the blunt force trauma of a explosion. An ocean of water will not quench that, everyone can keep on voting like "flags" hurt but nothing short of taking away the RIDICULOUS payouts for ZILCH effort will stop it, and why not, that is prime parasitical behavior, you don't play nice with parasites.
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I dont really agree with fighting fire with fire. I dont get that analogy at all. I dont understand self policing very well either, since there are few examples in real life.
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You are taking away the fuel of the fire before it burns, by burning it. This is done in real life in forest fires by controlled burns and this is how they stop petroleum well fires, by blowing the fire away with explosives. Here you are basically invalidating a few votes and in turn making all others votes worth more. The point in self policing is that we, the community has to make a stand. When the community (aka 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and so many people) stand up with their voice saying "this shit is fucked" then pressure mounts as solidarity is unified against the abuse. This is not a debate about fairness, everyone and the dog knows what is fair, what this is about is the greed of a few which costs everyone directly and indirectly in numerous ways as people are clearly faced with the appalling abuse of steem by these actors. Some people don't understand that yes indeed one vote could be worth 10000 or 100000 other votes and this is what is happening here. Nobody sees this as fair, unless they have deluded themselves that such bullshit tea leaf nonsense is actually worth more than $10. Go tell some poor folk that live on $5 a day that that asshole deserves to make numbers that they cannot even fathom, he makes more a week than a village in a year. Fuck this shit. This is not what steem is for.
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