Here is a part of the description from Randowhales page.
This part explains the payouts given...."randomly" with some larger votes "mixed in"
So what happened there? You sent him your money (probably 5-10 dollars) for a random upvote from his massive SteemPower. You got a vote of a few cents or maybe a buck and change if you're real lucky, but DAMMIT....wouldn't ya know, you didn't hit the big vote. Guess who did....he took YOUR MONEY TO PROMOTE and he paid himself and his buddies and bots this:
BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!!!
Besides paying himself thousands of dollars in the payout period, and paying his customers peanuts and the crumbs he wipes your way, he also uses the money YOU GAVE HIM to FLAG users like @haejin. Oh and MANY MORE. This is just a small taste. Look how much of what could have been voted on YOUR POST, because you paid him YOUR MONEY for the now seen to be impossible chance of a big UPVOTE, he instead uses to FLAG users he doesn't like on a personal basis, and accuses them of stealing from Steemit while he robs the minnows blind, and many others just trying to get more exposure through what they believe to be an honest service.
Did you pay for him to flag these users? Or did you pay for him to UPVOTE your post?
Here's something even worse to add to it all. He is using these accounts to launch an attack on the user @uknowjpbitcoin. He is suppressing any attempt this user has to make a comment on any thread. He is doing this with the accounts that he is propping up through RandoWhale. This example below is an automated system running that is immediately flagging this user's account anytime he tries to post anything at all. This is what every single comment by this user looks like. Look at that list. Seems the lucky winners of all the big votes are their bot posting accounts being used to oppress users on the site. When you gave to RandoWhale, is this how you thought the project was going to use your money? I know I didn't. Yes the link this user has posted has a damning title, but this user has been experiencing this terror bull shit for the last several days....I can see why he's so upset about it. Dare I say that by using RandoWhale you are actually supporting terrorism on Steemit? I do. This is the definition of that to a tee. But for the sake of conversation let's just call it extreme abuse, censorship, and a community member acting in a very disgusting way toward another.
RANDOWHALE IS A SCAM RUN BY @BERNIESANDERS AND FRIENDS! YOU ARE PAYING YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY, AND NOT GETTING WHAT IS PROMISED IN RETURN FAIRLY. YOU ARE GETTING TAKING FOR A FOOL, AND OTHERS ARE SUFFERING BECAUSE OF IT, AND IT MAY BE YOU SUFFERING FROM IT ONE DAY AS WELL!
It's up to YOU.
Is this acceptable to YOU in YOUR community?
Save them from getting scammed right as they walk in the door to this community.
Now let's see what funny jokes they have for me down below...
This is getting ridiculous. I have made more money learning from @Haejin in about 2 months than by trying to learn from hundreds of other people from across all the social media sites for over a year. @Haejin has never asked me for 1 penny of money. He does it all out of the goodness of his heart. The terrorizing being done by these bot accounts has to stop of Steemit will die.
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In all fairness, @haejin asks for upvotes, which are money.
He makes money, and enjoys making money. I don't think this is bad, but it is true. Hundreds of users have voluntarily used their stake to upvote haejin, and that's probably why he keeps doing his videos. For the money.
That's also probably why I'm still writing articles. For the money. Let's not get confused that we are in some harmonious 'free' society.
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Upvotes are given at no cost to share support. The money is on the receiving side only except for sp curation reward. So this is a win-win.
He might be asking for upvotes, but he gets them organically anyway. We should all be so consistent, successful, and motivating.
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I believe we generally feel similarly, but there is a reason that I am being obtuse here.
We are all earning money. This is great! But these flag wars have a tendency to divide us, and we resort to saying things that aren't true - sophmorisms.
Why does @fernowl13 say this? This is not a claim that berniesanders is making, no one ever 'accused' @haejin of soliciting funds. They accused him of 'reward pool rape'. Now whether that is an actual thing, or if it is a thing we should worry about, that is the discussion. We cannot get confused about red-state, blue-state or urban-rural discussions - or any other topics that might divide us.
Bull. I don't believe you for a second. I bet he does have a great heart, but he is an economic agent like us. I love what he does, I watch his videos. But don't use rainbows and unicorn falsities to fight bernie, use logic and philosophy!
@haejin makes a lot of money on steemit. People have complained about it, its that much! I am thrilled to be part of a platform where one of the biggest problems is that there are people making too much money!
But talking about whether he's charged or not? Isn't that missing the point? He's here because Steem is a revolutionary new system of creating value, where we are hacking the market system, agreeing that these token have value, then agreeing how to distribute that value based on our stake.
This may be unfortunate, but I think Bernie may have every right to vote how he likes with his stake, just as ranchorelaxo, you and me have the right to vote with our stakes. I certainly agree that we are doing it better than bernie (How much curation do flags get?), but that is Bernie's choice. All we can do is opine here in the public opinion.
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I'm going to rip-off something I've previously posted.
To me @haejin is like LOL or DOTA but waaaaay better. You can reward him if you like. You get the same content whether you reward him or not. I've come to trust him because of his excellent results. But initially I'd have shown contempt/disdain if he had somehow declined rewards.
Altruists are just Evil that hasn't fully blossomed : https://steemit.com/steem/@taskmaster4450/steemit-new-motto-earn-lots-of-money-launching-personal-attacks-so-we-all-can-laugh-at-others-it-is-a-sure-winner
My full comment was on the above article.
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You are right. The entire society is set up so if you do not have money, you do without. Up to and including dying of starvation, freezing to death or whatever. We have made money into a god. I still stand by the FACT that Haejin has NEVER ASKED ME for a single penny and he does it out of the goodness of his heart. He has continued to do it even though some fat whales are making sure he doesn't make a penny.
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Yep. He doesn't charge a penny. He just take all the rewards that are voluntarily given to him like any self-respecting confident person would. He never ask for a penny and never rejects a penny. I have yet to see a person who is good that reject money. That's what I'm saying.
I'm a massive Ayn Rand fan BTW. I've written many posts on steemit.
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If you don't like the way it is working than alter the rules of the game to be FAIR. HAEJIN has more than enough money outside of STEEM....
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Do you understand that this is meant as a positive comment about @haejin. I just don't have delusions about world.I haven't met a single good person that reject money/rewards; only good people who doesn't care about money/rewards.
@haejin doesn't care about the money (hence the free access to everything) yet he's reaping everything that is rewarded to him. Therefore he doesn't reject money and isn't evil but a good person on steemit.
Do I make myself clear?
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The only fairness can be achieved through free movement and voluntary transactions.
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Long live lazize faire and may we have our Utopia of Greed (Galt's Gulch)
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I don't see how this is a "revolutionary system of creating value" when it's obviously necessary to bicker over a couple of hundred bucks. If this money pool function is not working, then steemit is fucked beyond all the hype, as it's a very primitive social network which has actually NOTHING ELSE to offer. It's a blockcharin crypto that uses a very simplistic service-free social network setup as marketing ersatz. In effect, @haejin is one of its best marketers, while berniesanders and similar web leeches are absolutely NOT.
You are correct that haejin is also here for the money, but his self-marketing is intelligent and he is a very good analyst = value.
I don't know what you do, you may also be a value creator. But up-an-downvote bots are obviously worthless.
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Ok, so, as I said to @fitinfun, I think we agree here, I am being perhaps a bit obtuse philosophically, because its saturday morning and I love a good philosophical discussion.
Probably true, but I think it is working. Let's check out @haejin's page - I see thousands of dollars in the last few days. The only thing hidden is a resteem by @libertyteeth, who, for good or bad, decided to go toe-to-toe with bernie.
Is this not what a functioning society looks like? Did someone tell you that it would be rainbows and unicorns all the way?
Bots are tools made by humans. That humans can be terrible is, historically, accurate.
Our 'job' here is to use our stakes to determine what is valuable. That not all people will agree is recognized in the whitepaper. The system is working.
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Here is my thinking. We have our incentives misaligned. steemit has more valuable content than spam or plagiarism. Minnows barely earn any curation and for whales loss of curation doesn't matter much.
So what if make flags cost 3% or even 4% voting power instead of 2%. There is less incentive to flag. Positive reinforcement works better than negative reinforcement. There will always be abusers and bad actors.
Not many would go around flagging left and right if they had to choose between 3 upvotes+positive interaction+curation rewards Vs 2 Flags+negativity.
People will require of themselves a very good reason to use their VP on flags. So naturally the flags would concentrate on content than can easily be identified as "Bad for steemit" (Spam, plagiarized content, promoting terrorism, spreading false info etc.)
Don't try to control actions. Instead, adjust the incentives and actions would follow.
Don't try to make things perfect. Keep it simple. Keep it elegant. Too many moving parts means too much complexity means too many ways things could go south.
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I agree with your underlying analysis of incentives!
I think charging more VP for a flag could be a very elegant solution, to ease things in the right direction.
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Not steemit, but the blockchain tech, yes 🙄. It depends on how you apply it. Developers are still experimenting with the tech and things will improve and get better with time. Just try to stick it out , ok. 🙂.It's a bit hard to apply anything flawlessly to dynamics and unpredictability of human behaviour.
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You are right, but it has to be done in an appropriate manner, would you not agree. There is no logic and reasoning in the way the guy was called out and so, you too are being biased if you fail to acknowledge this fact.
There is a problem with the flagging system and also the reward system which needs to be addressed urgently.
Flagging damages someone users rep and have the effect of sensoring them, it is not just used for lowering rewards and that you need to acknowledge. For that reason they should not have the right to flag users however they feel until the flagging system is fixed. It gets to the point that people are being flagged for difference of opinions. Totally unacceptable!
To be precise, It is clear that Haejin's pay has skyrocketed a bit too much after some 3 to 4 months and his rewards need to be lowered. However; it should be done in a professional manner. Otherwise we risk losing valuable users on this platform, especially readers (curators isnt really the right word until the system is adjusted-I do not consider a simple upvote to be curation).
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You are probably right. That the system is not perfect, I am in total agreement with you.
Do you have any suggestions?
Are you really sure that taking people's 'rights' away is the only solution to this problem.
Literally the only 'rights' we have on this platform are to upvote and downvote with our stakes.
That reputation is nothing more than 'how many net upvotes and downvotes have you gotten' - this is not the best system, I think we can all see some of the potential and actual problems with this. People can self-vote a high rep or be attacked to a low rep, but generally on average the rep calc more or less tells us something. Acknowledging its limitations, I think it is more useful than not having the number.
Do you have any suggestions on how it should be better calculated?
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Yes, I have a few suggestions; and you have a point about taking away people's right. What I really wanted to say is that people should be more careful with their downvotes and should always try to not use emotion when flagging someone. It shouldn't be done arbitrarily because it damages the users rep.
Here is one thing we need to adjust. When choosing the purpose for flagging, should it be for disagreement with payout, it should not affect the user's reputation. For other flagging options which are justfiable, like plagiarism etc, the effect on rep should come into play. Infact the flagging option should be changed to payment adjustement or we can remove it from the flagging option entirely and have it separate.
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That flagging/downvoting could become a multi-step process sounds to me like it has potential!
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I'm not sure why someone who has thousands of loyal followers whom he is helping, would deserve to have his earnings lowered? A whale gets there by either adding thousands and thousands of their own dollars, or by adding the earnings of all the people who upvote them. I think cuttings what someone earns simply because they are popular would do nothing but deter people from trying and give the big whales even more power because you are making it harder for the little people to become whales.
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Im calling the teaming up the problem.
Were it all done as an individual thing, its one thing, but to gang up disadvantages everybody else.
The socially inept have enough problems earning rewards without the socially adept force multiplying in the interests of dominating the reward pool.
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Good points!
And add to that the technologically adept know how to automate much of their plans. This conversation makes me want to learn more about programming bots than anything else.
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@camb has a fossbot tutorial.
I hope everybody doesnt adopt that option, we got enough problems as it is.
Im looking at fossbot to replace my steemvoter, once i am better situated.
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Bernie has the ability to vote(flag) and create as many bots as he like. But he doesn't have the right to do most of the things he is doing as they are clear violations of NAP.
Those who are not the first violators of the NAP has the right to use whatever force that doesn't go beyond neutralizing and/or preventing the first aggression.
These are the principles I stand by.
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Non-Aggression Principle
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I was under the impression that anyone with a sufficiently large stake could create any arbitrary number of accounts. Those are the rules.
Want to change the rules? Maybe we should. I'm not sure how, since everything runs from stake. I have 6 accounts, and why shouldn't I? They vote how I tell them, after all they are me!
Bernie seems to do the same, although, yes I agree, in a offensive and frustrating manner. But philosophically I am having trouble escaping that it is his right to do that here on this platform, because this platform was made that way.
Can we change the rules? YES! I think there have been 19 Hard Forks so far.
But how would you change it? If not to allow for the free use of one's stake, then I'm not sure you will be left with a plaform that is worth having.
Looking forward to your ideas!
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Right. Because one jackass running around with 60 accounts dictating not just positivity, but NEGATIVITY toward other users in a manner that is crippling is a great use of the platform. It's great to agree with something in principle, but in practice it can be a whole 'nother ball of wax. 19 hard forks already you say? Yeaaaah, I'll pass.
For me, and for many other users, we would literally never have come to or use this site if it weren't for the content Haejin provides. This childish drama and bickering has me rather put off this awful platform (and yes, the reddit/craigslist interface is depressingly dull). If Haejin announced tomorrow he was moving elsewhere, I would gladly leave and never look back. So all these children having a pissing match would do well to get things sorted if they would like to have anything left of Steemit 12 months from now. They can hard fork until the sun goes down, but that's not going to save it.
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"Upvotes are given at no cost to share support. "
Oh, really? Can you direct me to the free Steem Power store?
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Upvotes doesn't charge fees as steemit is fee-less and stake based.
But they do have a cost due to limited supply of 10 per day or else you'd drain your voting power.
It's mining through human action instead of hashing. Upvotes have a human action/interaction based cost that is clearly measured using VP.
When @fitinfun made her comment I think she tried to communicate that nothing on your steemit wallet leaves your account. She probably didn't thought about the voting power drain.
So you are both correct in your respective contexts.
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Just spend a minute flagging the fools and upvoting our friends. Don't get emotional or on a crusade. This too shall pass. Don't get distracted from your goals, that is what they want.
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I feel the same way, @Haejin is the only source I make sure to check in with on a daily (sometimes hourly! lol) basis. I have learned so much from him, and I love the gentle approach and kindheartedness that shows through in his teachings. Its a rare trait that attracts people naturally. There has to be a way that Steem can get control of this kind of out of hand behavior.
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Hope mine helps
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Use steemfollower instead. It's free and works great to get exposure and meet people.
https://steemfollower.com/?r=1597
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How does this work?
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Here's my thorough explanation:
https://steemit.com/steemfollower/@lexiconical/steemfollower-com-that-free-money-printer-you-still-aren-t-using
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Thanks for sharing. Sounds like we have a civil war brewing here on Steemit. This could get interesting...
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Seems that steemit as a very young network in its beta has already contracted cancer. It will possibly soon be ruled by bots, as society is being ruled by egalitarianism bots, as humanity always loves to be ruled by its psychopaths.
It will depend on the intelligence of the users if this goes up or down... well you know my opinion of steemit, and maybe on humanity.
I would prefer to see @haejin on minds.com, they are aching for sensible content, and they got moderation.
This sort of thing couldn't happen there.
Thanks for the elaborate writeup ;)
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I've been on here for ~ 6 months, it took me 1 week to see the dynamics of this community and a month or two to finally back off. Nothing seems to have changed since, and the powers that be seem to be treating this as a get-rich-crypto-social-experiment letting everything run its course.
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Absolutely. Not my sort of network, dishonest to the /core/
Rank, rudimentary and rude - unenticing.
I came and may stay for awhile as haejin is easier to follow here than on youtube, but I will soon be able to do without this anyway
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Bots are scripted by humans!
I find the disparaging comments about bots interesting, and worthy of a discussion. Is a bot bad, or good? All a bot does is automate tasks that I give to it. The programmer is the master of the bot.
If, as you say, psychopaths are programming the bots, we are in for a harsh ride!
But, is anything really happening here? Haejin is still making money hand over fist! Can minds dot com do that for him?
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this childish behavior from @berniesanders etc. is totally against for what crypto stands. bullying and abusing with their power of money. doing/giving nothing, but doing harm to the community. manipulating and destroying such a great socialmedia platform - thanks for downvoting my opinion by the way :)
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This is an appropriate post about the topic. Unfortunately @libertyteeth's call for a hard fork was not an appropriate response.
The only solution that I can see, again, unfortunately, is to 'fight' the flag war in the court of public opinion, as you do here.
People will have to read, try to understand, make up their minds. In the end, I come here to find and read good content.
But of course this is a decentralized place so if you think there is something wrong, you will have to write an article like this one and convince others.
Keep it up scarlet7!
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It wasn't a call for a hard fork, it was asking whether such a call would be appropriate. This has really affected many of us negatively, including myself. I'm starting to feel better about this situation, especially with this post.
Which I just went to upvote, and found that it was nuked to oblivion. Gave it a 100% upvote, but that still wasn't enough.
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Yes, I don't want to offend, you asked, and I answered, but over here in a different thread, sorry about that.
I think though - @haejin's team is 'winning'
A few more thoughts -
That's a lot of money. You must admit it is. So we at least understand why they think it is a lot of money and might get upset with it. Remember, we live in a world that has told us (them) that rewards should be distributed 'fairly'. They think they are doing good.
Concentration of the SP is a top problem named about Steemit Platform. The only way to combat it is to buy it from them, power up and fatten up our own stakes here, slowly creating the world we want. Also adding more use-cases, more value centers (like utopian.io did, and like any other sector 'buying-in' would. Imagine if a local government decided to buy in and do all of their accounting and records on Steemit? They could do it! Probably they would create their own condenser, like utopian did, but the steemit condenser shows everything.)
Anyways, my two cents, Love and Light to you LibertyTeeth
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Thanks. As you may or may not know, I'm recovering from multiple concussions and sometimes the irritability symptom makes me think I'm under attack when I'm not.
Sometimes it's right, as my invisible posts and comments this morning showed. I upvoted all my comments back to visibility, but now I'm down in the 20s in terms of voting power. Oh well, it'll recover.
I really like the way the community is responding. I didn't get a similar response a few months ago when he first attacked without provocation (and that's okay, as I'm not providing the MASSIVE value that @haejin is) -- and neither did the many, many others who were attacked by this sad broken-headed whale.
Meanwhile, ZRX looks like it's getting into wave 3. It's a lot more fun going back and forth to the Binance tab, while continuing this discussion. Although my prior blogging has fallen pretty much completely off. The garden is covered in white, and I've not Flame Painted in some time.
Anyway just followed you. Love and light back, Merry Christmas!
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Merry Christmas to you friend! Get well soon, 2018 is going to be a great year :)
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This is pointless. Flags can only remove rewards, which these flag abusers generally acquire with sock-puppets anyway. The community can't regulate their behavior. This isn't real-life.
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I try to maintain optimism. But perhaps you are right. I'm still having fun on steemit, and tried my hand at a bit of philosophy today in this thread.
I'm not sure what you mean by sock-puppets, if you mean the free steem given to a new registered account (so that seems like something that should probably change), but if I delegate my SP to any number of new accounts I can make with my steem, and I write scripts for how they should act, they are only carrying out my will.
And since it is indeed my SP, then it is my right that my bots vote the way I want them too. That trolls exist is an internet problem, not a steemit problem. In fact, it almost seems (maybe just in the tags I hang out in?) that there are surprisingly few trolls on steemit!
So what do we do for bad flagging behavior? Unfortunately we only have flagging...
I think 'talking it out' helps too. Pointless though it may be.
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The large flaggers don't seem to be particularly concerned with earning on their main accounts, and they are capable of making many alternate accounts and posting from them. Attacking their reputation with flags, or earnings when they use most of their stake to downvote, therefore seems mostly pointless from a game-theory perspective.
No judgment, it is what it is.
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Probably the only thing that could affect this particular user is in the witness department. I see he enjoys automation, he probably is a good dev!
I still (optimistically) think maybe we can all get along ;p
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Uknow....you know.... I think I see your master plan. Keep sucking up BS' Voting Power ;p
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Thanks you for sharing this information. It seems no place is unscathed from the human greed and jealousy, even this new space. Hopefully, with time and cohesion of the community, we'll see less and less of these behaviours
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Thanks for all you do Haejin. You are a blessing to so many of us minnows. I gave you an upvote, but it cancelled and went to a downvote. Not sure what is up with that. Looks like something is rigged to me.
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Great work. Upvoted - Resteemed and Promoted.
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How hasn’t randowhale and berniesanders been banned yet? Just a toxic part of the community.
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Block-chain is decentralized specifically to avoid things like mob rule and centralized "banning."
Perhaps you know understand why many people seem to prefer centralization.
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Apparently asking whether we should make a petition to ban someone is "inappropriate", according to another comment on this post.
If there's a dog terrorizing the neighborhood, it gets put down. Just because this neighborhood has "crypto rules" doesn't stop people in the neighborhood from wanting to see the angry dog gone.
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Hard Forking to allow banning - you said it yourself in your post -
To appeal to Dan or Ned to 'put' Bernie 'down' is a lot like appealing to the government to put down a dog terrorizing the neighborhood. Do you think that governments should be in charge of local dog euthanasia?
I know I am being obtuse, but I assure you we are agreeing on the principles of liberty.
What is the proper way to 'put' Bernie 'down'? I suspect it has to do with his role as a witness. A lot of people seem to like his antics though...
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Yes, you're right. I've already removed my votes from two witnesses due to this ongoing feud. Although today, @uknowjpbitcoin is saying Bernie has "moved on", so perhaps it has ended at the source.
The fire he lit though, that's still burning; I'm still being attacked and mocked, today. Good for them; show their true colors to the world, permanently etched into the blockchain.
My post was more along the lines of exploring the options, than saying "this is what we must do, now." Not looking to thugs with guns -- rather, looking to those who created this community, as to what their feelings on the direction their community has grown, are.
[Edit: and also, to see what we as a community can do in response. The townsfolk have torches and pitchforks, but what's the best use of them?]
Appreciate the dialog, thanks.
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There is a critical flaw in the argument you are making in this post. You are confusing delegator payouts (of which Bernie must be one of the largest) with votes. Those who delegate to the bot receive a share of the earnings, this is working fairly and as expected. Most of the bots do this.
I was hoping for a statistical regression of Rando's votes that were going to prove something shady meriting the court of public opinion, and left "feeling so unsatisfied."
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Haejin is the best thing that could have ever happened to this community. Haejin will have an EXTREMELY LOYAL following that will NOT give up!!!!!!!
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Any teaming up disadvantages the less socially adept.
When a power player comes in and sets an impossibly high score it takes some of the fun out of the game for normal users, imo.
It certainly disheartens those that struggle.
It remains to be seen what @haejin will do with his good fortune.
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For me it is not. I am a very friendly person and when I am giving out SBD/STEEM/money, it is for helping others!!
I don't like people using my reward to shit other genuine people.
Thanks for sharing :)
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Wow. I didnt even imagine this is possible. Can anybody confirm this aside from this article? Don't wanna immediately judge but these are very credible evidences.
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Thanks for taking the time to shed some light into this kind of services. I want to believe people will wake up.
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The TRUTH will prevail! Amazing post! I stand with Haejin! Berniesanders, go back to momma's basement!
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Whilst everyone is complaining my only complain is that i haven't had money to take advantage of @haejin's good work
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@scarlet, Thank you for this! upvoted and resteemed!
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Wow. I am new to steem and learning about bots is new to me. I have heard of them before but you show examples of the destruction they do within the steem platform. There must be a way to èliminate or minimize what these bots can do because if it runs rampant steemit can close down.
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It's almost like he's the REAL Bernie Sanders... Cranky and gruff, wants to be rich himself, but doesn't want others to be...
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Damn !!! you took so much effort for this . hanks for supporting @haejin .
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Thanks you for sharing this information.
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Thank you for this post. I got flagged by this person for making a comment on the attempt to destroy @haejin post. It's a disgusting abuse of power.
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Yess that game is very great and i was playing
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@haejin, heard your a guy that like math.. read this..
Perhaps not all as it was made out to be, and perhaps an image was altered to incite hatred toward you. But you will have to read the article to find out.
Also I poke fun at everyone equally...:) I'm not biased by any means in my articles and they reflect that as you peruse my blog..
I'm actually a member of the club now as I have been downvote attacked for the article mentioned above..
Take care, I still think your rewards are excessive, but that is the system we have here. You used it to your advantage and I applaud you for that...
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Your information is incorrect.
You will get a random % vote on your content if you send money to @randowhale. That is correct.
However, what you've provided is screenshots of something different. That is what people earn from delegations and not from votes they pay for.
That being said... @berniesanders is fighting for what he believes is right. And truth to be told, he and many other Steemians are right. No one is worthy of 10 x $200-$400 posts per day.
I won't argue about this whole reward scenario too much, but just imagine if @freedom would give himself 10 votes per day. For whatever content he provides.
@Haejin's rewards are mostly from @ranchorelaxo, who has a total of 1,304,239.914 Steem Power.
It doesn't matter if this is his own account or if this is a whale trying to support him for his efforts. - And this is not some sort of hate speech or anything like that either.
@freedom on the other hand, has a total of 7,321,715.441 Steem Power.
The reward pool would be raped and others would suffer... Why do you think that most whales are spreading their votes across the entire platform? - To give others something for their contributions and to grow Steemit.
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I'm sorry but I don't agree with this.
We need people upvoting and earning as much on here as possible. The rewards will be spread out and balanced out naturally as more quality content creators come in from other platforms and there is more competition for rewards.
Shutting down anyone as soon as they start becoming successful, and subjecting them to vicious personal attacks is just unbelievable.
What serious, mass-appeal kind of content creator would ever want to be on a platform where this happens?
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Well said! - I wasn't talking about shutting down anyone. It's obviously not good for Steemit to censor specific authors.
We should strive to reward as many authors as possible. That is what will encourage people to join. This is how we will get massadoption in the long run.
Having only a handful of authors though, with earnings of $5,000 per week meanwhile newcomers are struggling for 3 months to earn their first dollar... That is not good for Steemit.
I don't have problems with users rewarding what they believe is high quality content. What I do see as a problem, is that one person earns anything between $200 and $400 on each post, 10 times per day. - And I see that as a problem because most of the rewards are due to one user who never upvotes anyone else.
That being said, just like I stated in the previous comment. What if @freedom, @berniesanders (which people have been talking about lately) and all the other whales started to upvote their own posts or just supported one other author... - What if @ned did the same thing?
Massadoption will never work if people never supports anyone besides themselves. - And serious investors realize that they will make more if they spread their wealth across the entire platform. That's why they're voting with low percentage votes on multiple authors, instead of giving all their votes to one single author.
I don't have accurate numbers but there's probably more than a handful of people on Steemit right now who could give themselves $1000+ per day if they wanted to... - But if they did that... The price of Steem would fall, SBD would fall and Steemit would ultimately die.
That is why #rewardpoolrape is bad for the entire community.
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"That is why <insert label the State doesn't like, which is not clearly defined, and the State can therefore assign to anything> is bad for the < patriots of our great nation!> "
Won't you please think of the children?
If you allow vaguely defined "crimes" to justify vigilante justice, you'll get lots of vigilante justice.
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Your first point is very important, and a critical flaw in the original post. Good catch. This is what Bernie will come in and rip on when he finds this post.
"No one is worthy of 10 x $200-$400 posts per day."
Citation needed for argument assumed with no evidence or support provided. This isn't communism. The MARKET decides who is worth what.
"What do you think would happen if @freedom started to give himself, or any other author 10 x 100% upvotes per day?"
The platform would be functioning as designed, distributing the reward pool. You use the term rape to politicize and try to assume your position.
This potential has already been reduced by the move from exponential to linear voting.
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You're probably right... - But I still believe that one author with $200-$400 per post, on 10 posts per day... Is bad for the platform when most of the rewards comes from one user.
I don't even dare thinking about what would happen if all the whales started to upvote their own posts 10 times per day and ignored the rest of the people.
I guess the old expression:
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I don't like what I'm seeing in the community around here anymore than I am guessing you do, but the solution is not an arbitrary cap on what people can earn.
I believe most would agree that Steemit is here to reward merit. We cannot hard-cap out our "Einsteins", or forever be at-or-below median in quality.
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Exactly, thank you for this @lexiconical
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Exactly what I've been telling all along. I once said it would be OK to put a dynamic cap based on the unique upvoters (At leaset 5 SBD or more per upvoter per week. So @haejin would be at worst capped at 5000SBD per week) and I was fine with splitting larger votes into multiple votes which would force the biggest whales to use more than 10 votes per day.
Still these are what I consider tolerable and not something I fully support.
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I think we all need to cultivate more of an abundance mentality here. There are enough rewards to go around, and those who offer the most value will get them.
Nobody is entitled to any of the reward pool. I feel this is the problem here. Sadly in modern culture people are so spoilt that feel they have a right to something for nothing.
I do a little blogging, and I earn very little in upvotes, but I am happy and thankful for what I get. It's not my business to expect to make more at the expense of others who honestly deserve what they have been freely given by helping others so much.
I think all whales should be voting as much as possible, if they're not it means a lot of the reward pool is going unused. The more money is sloshing around the Steem ecosystem, the more big bloggers and content creators will want to come on board to get a piece of the pie. The quality of content competing for upvotes will balance out the distribution of rewards naturally.
It's the same as if Steemit was a country, we must make it a friendly environment for business, and for people who are rich and successful to live here without fear of personal attack. Otherwise they will leave, our country will become like North Korea or Venezuela, and we will starve.
If you were a celebrity, like a movie star, football player, a writer, or whatever, and you saw this behaviour, would you ever sign up to Steemit and face being treated like this?
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I get your point. I really do.
I would love to see really famous people joining Steemit. Movie stars and whatever. That would be awesome and I believe that it can happen at some point. However, let's look at it from an average users perspective instead.
Would you stay at Steemit if you never got feedback and support?
I know we have different types of people on Steemit. Users have different "levels". We have minnows, dolphins and whales etc. However, I still believe it would be better for the platform to reward tons of people with something instead of a handful of people with everything.
That's the only thing I see as a problem. That some people are rewarding only 1 or 2 authors and ignore the rest of the Steemians.
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I'm sorry but I cannot accept that. Even if you start from zero and you make an effort, post every day, use all your upvotes for curation, write lots of comments and replies, and power everything up, maybe put a bit of money in too, even if it's just a handful of STEEM here and there, you will grow very quickly.
How can anyone possibly say they haven't been given enough opportunity by this platform? What do other websites pay you? Nothing!
This is real life, it's competitive. You have to really work hard to be successful and get the big bucks, and not everyone is going to make it. I think lots of people are just lazy and entitled, and are having a tantrum like little spoilt children, trying to break another kid's toys. I'm sorry, that's how it is.
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Yes, this is the crux of your argument, and an important point.
@hitmeasap is saying, that something other than the freest of free markets might help main stream adoption faster which might help us all more in the long run with token price.
Your points that any cent is a bonus, is very true too. It may not lead to main stream adoption though. I am loath to admit it, but main stream might be a bunch of whiners.
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Hard work and effort. That's what it takes to succeed on Steemit and in life.
However, people would never stay as active Steemians without support or gratification... They could stay on Facebook and instagram for that.
People join Steemit for the money. For the opportunity they have. They can earn money.
That is why I personally believe, it's better for Steemit as a community to spread the reward. A little bit of rewards to tons of people rather than a huge slice of the pie to just a handful of authors. That's what I believe is for the best.
Thanks for the great discussion!
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Thank you too! I'm honestly not trying to be antagonistic, jut venting a little I guess. I appreciate the discussion too!
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I agree generally with your points, but this point is a misunderstanding about how the ecosystem works.
There are X number of rewards. These are divided up amongst the claims on the reward pool. Claims are processed by Voting Power (based on Steem Power and frequency) of upvotes.
If all whales voted, there would not be more money, your upvotes would just be worth less.
This is the math of how the system was designed.
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Thank you for clearing that up, yes I guess you're right. If the whales aren't voting then the voting pool is still the same just spread among more users.
I don't know, it's a hard one to call. I definitely accept your points. I agree on fair and equal distribution, but I also think it's important to reward the superstars. Personally, I'm in this for Steemit to become the next Twitter or Instagram, where it goes without saying that every big celebrity has to have an account.
If that happened then the price would blow up so fast that any amount of Steem rewards would be worth a lot. The pennies that people are getting now would become dollars.
Maybe there should be a sliding scale letting authors decide what proportion of payouts to accept, on a voluntary basis, like there is with upvotes? That way if someone is really successful they can choose to only accept a portion of their rewards. Right now it's all or nothing.
Still, I think we need to learn to celebrate wealth here. You never get rich by hating the rich, or money.
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YES!
This is the scenario of long term sustainability. I also think this platform has room for other use cases outside of social media. Steemit is awesome, but I think Utopian might be even more powerful. And I think we haven't even scratched the surface.
But the key crucial point in this is we need to buy up SP. We need to demand more of it. Bring more people on. Expand our stakes. Expand the use-case. Steem will only get better the more we use it.
Imagine a world with $10,000 dollar steem where every steempower gives a 1 dollar upvote or more!
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We will only get there if this is a positive community. Attacks and bullying can never be tolerated. That comes first, arguing over money is second. We all need to stand up together and say no to that whenever it happens.
It could easily be us any day, and who will help us then?
I've always been advocating people to buy Steem and Power Up from the beginning. That's taking personal responsibility for the equal distribution of power and rewards here.
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Come now. You know it is more nuanced than that with the plague of rampant inorganic voting. Yes, it's the system in place and, yes, and it is broke imho. Do you at least acknowledge there is rampant manipulation and perhaps a bit of cronyism among the larger stakeholders?
For instance, do you not acknowledge that stake is easily able to be leveraged to override effort and quality? I see it ALL THE TIME. I believe Steem is a microcosm of the nature of man. There is a lot of greed and deception as to what is quality content. Curation has gone to the wayside. For instance, have you noticed how dollarvigilante double dips and people just eat it up? I'm glad at least Bernie went after that but I reckon it's only the tip of the shit iceberg.
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@hitmeasap, so, there should be a "hardcoded" limit of how much one whale (more than %SP) can give to one author per day.
In this scenario a whale, orca or dolphin can vote as many times and for as many posts of one author as she wants but SP will be a limited amount.
And that should be calculated as a reasonable solution to stop those wars once and for all.
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Congratulations @scarlet7!
Your post was mentioned in the hit parade in the following category:
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It’s true! He just got me. Help me get my post back positive
https://steemit.com/steem/@ginquitti/the-feud-between-haejin-and-berniesanders-his-bots
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All of the images are hidden "due to low ratings". LOL crazy . @Haejin s blog has been completely infiltrated with bot commentors and wolf pack mentality that is designed to divide and distract from a good thing. One month ago I never noticed anything but nice and postive, loving comments for @haejin. Now it is a complete show of good vs evil in the comments section...
Wondering how sophisticated some bots can be, and how many here are bots actually leaving comments- curious...
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oh no .. i've just heard about all of this and i have not supported rondo or bernie but at first i was almost lured in. i'm about one month in and got took by a whale ... echowhale to be exact, and this is scary for us. its obvious who knows who when someone just starts and gets hundreds to thousands of dollars and huge upvotes.
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well... he brings useless pieces of crud to the platform like you and the other shills.
beyond that anything he allegedly does is debatable
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wow !! update us when that happens !!
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Above is the photo screenshot of my programmer making me a BEAST ROBOT, I even showed Bernie to let him know I am seriously going to make all of his accounts go to $0.00 no matter what the cost unless he reverses all the flags and leaves Haejin and his followers alone permanently.
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To much drama
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Lets see what happens .
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