Blockchain Heresy and Steem Economics: (Some) Steem platform inflation is a good thing! It just depends on how we use it!

in witness •  7 years ago  (edited)

I was noticing the recent explosion of growth that the Steem chain has been experiencing in our user base. @penguinpablo keeps some pretty good stats on the whole thing.

Steem is blasting past 50k active users and getting ready to touch into the 60ks.

It's driving our Alexa rating too:

"Inflation is the worst thing ever and must be stamped out"

I think I see a lot of this with crypto hounds. They seem to hate practically all forms of inflation. There's a good reason for that sentiment. Inflation can cause a lot of harm to an economy. Especially a lot of inflation, and especially a lot of inflation in a somewhat developed (slowly growing) economy. Inflation in the USA is particularly bad because rich bankers are the primary recipients of the wealth and everyone else is stuck holding the bag of an inflated currency and the decreased purchasing power that comes with it.

A lot of folks are worried about hyperinflation. They also like how powerful a completely deflationary currency can be. There's no doubt that a deflationary currency can do some pretty solid growth! Just look at bitcoin.

There's a part of this discussion that clicked for me when I was watching this mainstream approach to the value of a currency and why a bit of inflation can be good.

I have gotten on board with a little bit of inflation can be a great thing for the platform, but now the question to me is how do we distribute that inflation so that the entire platform is able to experience the benefits?

Steem inflation is different than other token inflation. We have Proof of Brain, which means Posting = Mining

The price of doge has been rising. Here's the price chart from livecoinwatch.com.

When that price is rising I might think, "Man I missed out on that opportunity," but it doesn't drive my desire to get into that community. Maybe since the inflation goes through mining I might want to mine a little more, but just cause the price is going up doesn't mean that I want to go join a Doge Community forum and spend a ton of time on it. That's not the case with Steem...

New Members

Please welcome @marcinromowski to Steem. He's the 577,435th account created on the Steem platform.

I don't know this dude, but if I had to guess he heard from a friend that you can make absurd amounts of money by blogging here. It doesn't take any money to get started except possibly an instant sign up account. Otherwise, you're off to the races and life is good.

What macrin is experiencing along with everyone else is the effect caused by platform inflation on the Steem blockchain and how we've put it to truly exceptional use!

Let's look at inflation Steem

Right now it's hard coded into the blockchain that we start at 10% platform inflation and it goes down 0.5% every year for a little less than 20 years. Right now we're slowly lowering inflation and we're in the 9% range.

There's some good and bad in how our platform inflation works and you can see it in this diagram from @jesta's steemdb.com.

Platform inflation is good if we use it well

First off I happen to like overall platform inflation. To me it's one of the counters to totally fucked platform distribution. This is where the top 100 accounts and their sock puppets own 93% of the steem or more. This occurred because of a premine followed by a STAKE WEIGHTED mega inflation that was total bullshit. Platform inflation going into Stake Weighted hands is one of my least favorite totally un-egalitarian things I've ever heard of. It's a wealth sucking mechanism that takes capital from the users and pumps it into the richest accounts on the platform. That's terrible! That's what everyone in crypto is fighting. Why the fuck did this platform do it?!?

This following image is from steemwhales.com and it's data is a couple of months old, but this is what I'm talking about.
The distribution on this platform is worse than any time in feudal England. It's worth noting that the 70 million steem that Steemit owns isn't even included in this. The distribution picture is actually far worse!!!!

Distribution.png

What do you do about a fucked distribution?

So, the counters to that are things like forking steemit or the devs off the chain, murdering the devs and while doing that extract keys out of them, or slowly over time distribute the stake through platform inflation to active users. We could have a Marxist revolution and go down to Austin with guns and seize the means of Steem production by force!!! That said... I run a peace group so I'm less inclined to fork people off the chain, coerce them with violence, or murder people. So, to me I think the inflation route is the way to go in part because it has some additional benefits that are unique to steem and truly extraordinary from an abundance for all perspective.

A couple types of inflation

To be clear there's platform inflation, and if used well I like it a lot. Platform inflation is the new amount of Steem printed every year. I'm a fan of making this a witness variable, or hardcoding it to be 10% instead of the slowly declining thing that it is now. Platform inflation I perceive as a major growth driver for us, which I happen to think is one of the main reasons we're mooning right now. I'm a big fan of this inflation type.

How does it help us moon? Well, ask yourself if you feel inclined to post more or own more now that steem is worth $5-9 and your post rewards just quintipled. If the answer is yes and you're acting on that you're making this platform grow because of platform inflation. Did you talk to anyone and say "holy shit look how much you can earn now? You have to join STEEM(IT)!!!" Then you're in the group of people that are having a positive experience with platform inflation. This is increasing our value because there are more users, and out of those users some are buying Steem and that's also driving the price upward!

Bad Inflation

Stake Weighted inflation is bad. I don't know exactly how they were doing this a year ago when the price tanked down to 7 cents per Steem, but a remnant remains that's hard coded in how the block operates and the effective amount can be seen in this Steemdb.com image.

The hard code says that 15% of all inflation will go to back to users through stake weighted inflation, but Steem is a complicated beast and as a consequence it doesn't work exactly like that in practice. See that 9% that's boxed in red? That's 9% of the platform inflation going back to users through stake weighted inflation. So, let's do some back of the envelope math right now.

260M steem. Call it 10% inflation. That's 26M new steem. it's supposed to be 15% but effectively it floats so I'll call that 10%. That means roughly 2.6M steem is going back to users through stake weighted inflation, but that's borked. 93% is going to the top 100 accounts so we're funneling about 2.5M steem back to the already largest accounts. Right now that's $12.5M usd. A year from now I'm betting that's 125M USD. This is dumb. Let's not do this anymore!!!

Why I hate it

Part of what I hate is that two of the biggest beneficiaries of this are bittrex and poloniex. They are two of the largest collective accounts and when you're holding your steem in there they are getting the benefit of this platform inflation. Yes, THAT poloniex that let our wallet slip for months at a time was collecting assloads of free steem while doing it...

Part of why I hate it is that I don't think it really does much for the platform. If a wealthy person gets 10 more Steem what's he/she/furry care about that? They likely won't change behavior all that much or promote the platform any more or less than they did before. If it goes into the hands of active users and especially new active users we're likely to see a whole army of people running around telling everyone they know to blog on Steem. That sounds better to me. It grows the platform and brings more devs and communities on board, which will ultimately allow Steem to support a higher price.

I'm not mad at the devs. I'm not mad at Steem. I just thanked these guys. I'm not mad at our whales. I'm not anti investor, but I am anti-dumb investment. We need people growing the platform incentivized by life changing money distributed to many active users rather than already rich people getting slightly richer where it won't really impact their behavior.

Good inflation use

The good type of inflation is platform inflation going to post rewards and curation (with a small percentage for witnesses). I know some of the other witnesses and whales aren't totally happy with how the reward pool is working right now. There are some major whale vote trades happening pretty easily spotted in trending. There are whales that don't distribute rewards to anyone but themselves, and a myriad of other problems. These are bad. Hopefully good whales will flag this bullshit down.

That said, I know there's abuse, but there's also a lot of good shit. Have you seen dtube? This chain has our own youtube service. Same with dsound and dlive. It's fucking amazing!!! And we're rewarding them. Have you used Vessel (another @jesta baby)? That program is awesome. Post rewards are helping to fund that too. I'm just saying at the same time we can find abuse we can also find some pretty epic shit that we're collectively making happen. Just cause there's some abuse doesn't mean the whole reward pool distributed to 50k people is a cesspool.

Could it be better? Yes! that's why I support a separate pool for downvoting. Downvoting is necessary in linear rewards now that other types of consensus have been removed. But I don't think the fact that it's imperfect should make us avoid putting more rewards into the hands of authors and curators especially if we're simply diverting new wealth from going into the already exceptionally wealthy.

So... this is long Aggroed... WTF is your point?

So, my first idea was to turn the 9% stake weighted inflation into a worker proposal system. Basically kill the 9% stake weighted inflation and shove it into a worker proposal system. It has a lot of supporters, but the large account naysayers basically say wait till SMTs. Ultimately there doesn't seem to be any political will to implement this.

So, now it's on to the second proposal

  1. Change platform inflation to a hard coded 10% or a witness variable.

  2. Cut the 15% hard coded/10% effective stake weighted portion of platform inflation and get rid of it entirely.

  3. While we're doing that let's cut top witness pay a little while supporting backup witness pay and give ourselves an even more robust set of servers, community builders, and devs to make Steem the best spot on the web.

  4. While we're doing that let's make a separate pool for down votes to make sure we send the platform inflation to good content, people, and projects and less to various forms of abuse.

What's the upside?

This would effectively raise curation to authors and commenters, and we could at the same time make it so that the rotation of witnesses included 2 backup witnesses per 66 seconds instead of 1 backup per 63 seconds. This would knock top 20 witness pay down by 5% while simultaneously doubling the rewards for all the other witnesses. A handful of witnesses are asshats that basically don't do shit for the platform except leach rewards, but there are lots of high quality devs and community builders that we could support while simultaneously increasing rewards to authors and curators.

Basically let's support the active users on the platform as they broaden our reach and simultaneously support the witnesses who build stuff that allows this community to have a more stable and decentralized platform with better access, tools, and communities all over the world.

Since abuse is a concern let's empower the community to fight abuse. HF19 requires more vigalence and community tools to fight abuse. Let's make it happen!

The cost

Well, this would involve diverting somewhere around 2.5M new steem from going back to the richest steemians and instead pumping it out to the nearly 60k active users and 100-200 witnesses that work on projects on behalf of the block.

I'm pretty sure that we'll get far farther as a platform moving inflation from those who need it least to those that spend time active promoting and building tools for this ecosystem day in and day out. So, yeah, the big accounts would miss out on some steem, but they'd have steem that was worth a lot more. They'll figure out a way to cope...

These guys aren't evil for having put it in there

To be honest before the price surge I now kinda understood the need to have it there. It was a compromise to keep the large investors from leaving. We desperately needed that to prop up our price, but as we're now out of the $1 range I think we can reexamine our priorities a little as a platform.

As an aside we're gonna need their support on this!!! The witnesses who can change things are effectively voted in by the whales. I have over 3000 votes on my witness, but about 12 votes still account for 70ish percent of my vote total. This isn't gonna happen without the whales. It's part political and part common sense to share I'm really not anti-whale. You guys are smart people. Hopefully you can understand how an army of people working on behalf of your investment (the Steem platform) is better than letting it sit in your Steem wallet.

One last time... what's the tl;dr? Steem to the people not to the 0.01%!

There's no political will for a worker proposal system (because SMTs and this whole platform can be a worker proposal system) so do a few things.

  1. Change platform inflation to a hard coded 10% or a witness variable.

  2. Cut the 15% hard coded/10% effective stake weighted portion of platform inflation and get rid of it entirely.

  3. While we're doing that let's cut top witness pay a little while supporting backup witness pay and give ourselves an even more robust set of servers, community builders, and devs to make Steem the best spot on the web.

  4. While we're doing that let's make a separate pool for down votes to make sure we send the platform inflation to good content, people, and projects and less to various forms of abuse.

Benefits:

  1. This proposal will help platform distribution, which will make Steem a better experience for everyone.

  2. This proposal will increase platform rewards for all but roughly 100 accounts who don't need the extra money and many of those folks got the steem from a mined stake that was hyperinflated, which required practically no investment.

  3. Changing witness pay will give us a more robust set of servers, community builders, and devs to help spread the gospel of Steem.

  4. Having a separate pool for down voting will help ensure that rewards go to good people, posts, and projects rather than abuse and vote swaps.

Can you see how shoveling inflation rewards to active users instead of the richest accounts is beneficial to Steem as a whole?

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  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Hey, I'm analyst who made last two years of career in content-managing systems - online salers and classifieds. Also I've dived in behaviour economics a bit during my two-year Master of economy study. And here is my view on Steem right now.

  1. Unfair distribution is pain in the ass and it continue to be so for a large while. Re-distribution is a pain too and need a will to be carried out. Let's not forget that the same whales who reap most of the reward now are setting the rules of the game. They will fight to preserve the status-quo. But the longer this efforts are postponed, the longer highly uneven distribution will slow the growth.

  2. We desperately need a middle class here on Steemit - dolphins and orcas. These are the guys and ladies who will make their living by the platform. They will get new users, they will monitor the health of the platform and spot anti-social behaviour. They are highly motivated to do so.

  3. Steemit Inc and broader community need to pay much more attention to the economy. I'm not saying that SMT is not worth its efforts but SMTs stand on the main platform and as healthy as the platform is. You dream of Forbes and NYT integrate with steemit and drive the price to da moon. That won't happen. They won't integrate with the platform where could came a whale mindless from his power and start to terrorize their users just because he can. And they would not be able to do anything to prevent it.

Imbalances in the economy could kill Steemit. Overpowered whales and procrastinating developers are killing GOLOS right now. If not kill then dramatically slow down the growth. Imagine if we are losing 10% of growth because of the issue - how much value would be lost in 10 years? The answer is 159%.

I think I'll make a separate post on it with much more detail and recipies how exactly we could deal with it.

Thanks for your attention.

Dear Steemit Inc.

Please, employ this guy

hahaha!
thanks!

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Agreed, since STEEM blockchain is becoming billion dollar behemoth and a small global economy within itself (e.g. bots, delegation business, curation guilds, in future communities, SMT ICOs, internal market for ICOs, job market). We need new and out-of-box economic thinker like @bronevik :)

LOL! - but not in a funny way.

You have many good points

Hey @aggroed I watched your interview with Jerry Banfield and you certainly inspired me to work harder and be a better person in general, I love the fact that you are not afraid to stand up to the system and call out BS wherever you see it.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

There is absolutely no problem with this Kind of Inflation... Although it is not really Inflation but growth in monetary supply. As long as the growth of the platform is stronger than the increase of the monetary supply, this type of inflation is healthy. Actually, it is necessary.

Regarding your proposal on downvotes: I am not sure that it would Work, but it could as the downvotes are an etfective cure for bad content paid. But people could still upvote their own content last minute and would be rewarded.

Thank you so much for posting this. I always felt like I'm a day late and a dollar short on Steemit. It's hard to see what is going on here and when I catch it then it's almost too late. I like your proposal and want Steemit to stay alive and moving not a cummunity of sleeping whales.

A great post @aggroed and I like your proposals.

It is too bad the worker proposal system didnt gain any steam...it makes a lot of sense.

The thing about inflation is that the pace of growth simply needs to outpace the pace of the inflation. This is something we are seeing and will continue to see over the next few years. As we are closing in on 600K users, and touching 60K users active users, that means that we are growing at a rate much greater than 10%.

It is a great time to look at the additional 2.5M steem that is going to the richest on this blockchain and route it back to the distribution pool. Overall, I think the whales will make a lot more money since those tokens given up will help to create a much larger price on STEEM than will happen locking it up. In a year I predict STEEM will be $100...that is another $250M being handed out to the masses in terms of reward. This will really help foster growth...if it is 2.5M people, that is an extra $100 per person on this blockchain per year (we arent going to hit 2.5M active users anytime soon, so the amount is actually higher).

This is a great proposal...I support it.

I remember when the Alexa rating was slowly bleeding about a year ago. It's interesting to see the tide begin to shift in a really big way like this.

@aggroed, you put so much time and consideration into these posts. Your analysis is appreciated. Thank you.

@shayne

It took me quite a while to understand it.but it worked out hopefully :)

In general I confess that inflation is a good thing - crucial, important - for an long term success if well distributed.

The basic economic principles see inflation as an indicator for growth. This won't be different in the case of STEEM.

The only thing is that the inflation should benefit those who contribute - the engine of economy (steem) - and therefore has to be linked to a fair distribution.

So I endorse your proposal

Well it is seen and observe through newspapers that inflation causes crime within a society. If this is happening then yes we are on the right track because

Steem is blasting past 50k active users and getting ready to touch into the 60ks.

A very well and researched based article you shared which is REALLY worth reading.
Thanks for this valuable information @aggroed

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Awesome collection of thoughts here. I'm relatively new but love the concept of this place. Seeing some of the ugliness of the Haejin stuff though I'm worried for the future. There are a lot of minnows putting out quality stuff and not getting rewarded, and a lot of whales putting up trash and giving each other a circle jerk for rewards. Yes it takes time and work to build a brand, but if this is really going to take off it's got to be easier for quality posts to get rewards. As much as I love you for MSP, having to rely on guilds to push yourself at the start is going to discourage the more mainstream crowd from sticking around.

If you think it's hard with a group imagine how hard it was without a group...

Couldn't agree more, very curious to see what this place was like a year ago. That was also part of my point though. You more or less need one, or need to know a whale, to get started here. If the platform itself can't really push new members I see that as a significant barrier to wider adoption.

There's a lot to like here.
Leased delegation already offers passive yield on investment for those who don't want to curate.
No need to double-dip.
Perhaps a compromise would be to also return to the original 50/50 author/curators reward split.
If curation/delegation rewards are juicy enough, the whales may be willing to give up that 15%.

I think that should be on the frontend. Rather than steemit setting a number let's make that a number that users can set themselves and see where the market lands.

I agree entirely.
Losing the 15% and replacing it with nothing might be a hard sell, though.
The increase in adoption would possibly compensate, but attracting paid authors while driving away paying investors may not help the price.
Let's not assume the money that's currently here would all stay here.

Change platform inflation to a hard coded 10% or a witness variable.

I much prefer the current inflation schedule.

This is a top post and should be trending within minutes. Good job.

Best wishes

A. Peasant.

Boom! I seem to be a stable genius. I'm not though. I'm an idiot.

I really hope proposals like this get taken seriously. Steemit has an opportunity to be great for its users. You say that there isn't the political will to do certain things. What do you think of forming a political party? You call yourself the mayor. An alliance of Steemians with a cohesive political goal might be a good idea.

Your points are irrefutable. Wonderful work. You seem like a good steemit inc. Material

In my opinion, it is not a problem for inflation. Because hopefully the government will take a good step.

Many are here because we resists just about everything the government does.

You're right. I agree.

hello .. the issue of inflation is very complex, I am from a country of the first world where not for inflation. This ends the purchasing power.
but if we take it to these new market of virtual currencies, I see that inflation gives us happiness, the esteem is well supported and will not stop rising, it is inside a bubble like cryptocurrencies, unlike steemit's platform increases and does not remove power to your currency.

very informative for me

Thank you very much my dear sir @aggroed for sharing. have a nice day.

First @aggroed :P

This type of money supply growth is really necessary, as long as the Steemit system remains strong, it is part of the currency equilibrate. This is the "Offer and Demand" law.

Man that was a long read, but you can tell you put a lot of time and thought into it. This is actually the first post of yours I've read, really enjoyed. I'm following you now and look forward to future posts!

Sneaky Ninja Attack! You have been defended with a 12.01% vote... I was summoned by @aggroed! I have done their bidding and now I will vanish...Whoosh

Thanks for the informative due diligence.

VERY HARD TO UNDERSTAND THIS POST TODAY,
I SEE LIKE TWO PEOPLE CONFRONTING EACH OTHER.
BUT WHAT I LIKE IS THE STEEMIT FUTURE WITH US!

Im for anything that helps upward mobility for those who are really contributing to the site whether it be through content creation or development.

As a separate issue, do we know how many of the active steemit users are bots. Growth stats don't really matter, if steemit is just becoming a place with 10,000 humans and 450,000 bots.

Very Nice to read your post
plz also vist my Blog Thanks

That's good to know about this thing had no idea about that..

You got a 20.82% upvote from @allaz courtesy of @aggroed!

Haha that was an excellent read @aggroed. I was shocked to see the amount @steemit is holding, that is just insane. Thank you for bringing up these suggestions, these are exactly the kind of discussions we need on steemit.

good post, I dot know what I want to
talk, I like it

Very informative post, thank you a lot, every time I read your post I learn new things, and this very useful for me
Waiting for the next one :)

This post has received gratitude of 4.80 % from @appreciator thanks to: @aggroed.

This is a very good point. Thank you for bringing it up.

It is my understanding that as the platform grows (and it is growing fast now!) that there will be a need for more witness servers to keep up with the growth of the platform. In order to incentivize new witness'... adding one extra block for a new witness to produce should do the trick... and a 5% paycut shouldn't matter if the currency is doubling ;)

The stake weighted inflation is BS. The revolution will be on the blockchain... but this type of BS is perpetuating the same old same old.

Thanks!

I think that of your proposal, the second and third points are the strongest and ones I think I could support if implemented properly.

Keeping inflation stuck at 10% or having it as a witness variable doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering as such inflation balloons the money supply. The current system makes sense and adjusts to slowing growth over time and there is no hard cap which allows the money supply to continue to grow once mainstream adoption is achieved.

Your fourth point seems unrelated to this whole discussion. I agree that we should be looking for fairer distributions, but creating a downpool rewards pool makes little sense to me. Imagine a whale abusing it and the havoc they could create. We don't need incentives to patrol abuse. We need incentives to curate more effectively. We can't stop greed, it's too hard. More simply put Proof-of-Brain needs to be more rigorous so that greed benefits the platform more effectively.

You got a 13.08% upvote from @postpromoter courtesy of @aggroed! Want to promote your posts too? Check out the Steem Bot Tracker website for more info. If you would like to support development of @postpromoter and the bot tracker please vote for @yabapmatt for witness!

Standing ovation! This makes so much sense! It's the Magna Carta or Bill of Rights for Steem! Mix the egalitarian ideals in the original white Papers with the above proposals and the moon will just be something to wave to on our way to the stars! rocket.gif

Did you have a look at the new user?
133kb bandwidth. And lost already 0.3% because he followed someone and updated his profile. Would he even be able to post anything?

Nice post! This may be the best one I've seen from you so far. Granted, I haven't been here long. Anything we can do to decentralize the blockchain will ensure its survival and growth.

I wrote a post yesterday about decentralization. I think there should be a vault that receives all the stake weight inflation. The community could force abusing investors to power down into the vault. What do you think?

Help me Like please🙏💯

is good to see your view, what i know is that most of the people are still investing more in other coins instead os steem, yes steem dollar is now 8 usd but still it has not got the interest of the world and yes it is growing each day as i can see the charts

Thanks for the tl;dr!

Love,

People with short atten

Thanks dude, I like the post and I want to translate it into Chinese to let more people know it. I may use some of the pictures in the post, and I will add your name and the URL of the post in my translate work. Do you allow me to do so ? : )

crypto's are future, thanks..

very good post thanks :)

Very thorough piece and very logical arguments. And yes, I can see how shoveling inflation rewards to active users instead of the richest accounts is beneficial to Steem as a whole?

How to do?

  ·  7 years ago Reveal Comment

I was just thinking of how steem and sbd are an inflationary currency today before I read this post. What makes it good is that it's controlled by an algorithm and not a fed chairman lol

I am standing 100% behind steem the blockchain since it is the most advanced blockchain currently in my opinion. However I fully agree that the distribution of steem is bad and was one of the reasons Steemit has been called a ponzi scheme in the past. In a perfect world we had the STEEM blockchain combined with SmartCash distribution model.

what does smartcash do for distribution?

Paste from the smartcash homepage: "80% of the block reward has been allocated to fund SmartHive community proposals as well as the Hive Teams. 20% of the remaining block reward has been allocated to Mining (5%) and SmartRewards (15%)"

Lets just make a hardfork that distributes evenly to all users. Everybody gets free steem! Lets turn this beast into a socialist platform!!!
where's my money.gif nun.jpg

giphy (1).gif