The Septuagint indeed records the same Greek words, but in a different order!
I think you're saying that the Septuagint is an accurate source, but the Textus Receptus is a corrupted source.
Romans 10:16 Textus Receptus:
κύριε τίς ἐπίστευσεν τῇ ἀκοῇ ἡμῶν
https://www.logosapostolic.org/bibles/textus_receptus/romans/rom10.htm
Isaiah 53:1 Septuagint:
κύριε τίς ἐπίστευσεν τῇ ἀκοῇ ἡμῶν
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lxx/isa/53/1/s_732001
These six Greek words are identical and in the same order, both in Romans (Textus Receptus) and in Isaiah (Septuagint). How can this Greek phrase be translated differently into English depending on the source text when the words are identical?
And I think you twist my words! Those first six words are in the same order but take note the Septuagint places a comma after Lord although your version of it above does not! The original Septuagint does have the comma which if they forgot to place it in the Textus Receptus can alter the translation! Rom 10:16 Nevertheless not all lived according to the gospel of Yeshayahu(Isaiah) because the Lord spoke to those of us with faith who heard. Without the preceding dialogue of Paul and minus the comma this is what it says! Introducing it like the Septuagint it translates as this, (Isaiah 53:1 Lord, a certain faithful One who hears You) but that verse also continues after regarding that certain faithful One which is Yeshua. The combination of the words used can give it either meaning but you must look at what precedes in Romans and what follows in Isaiah. It is most likely either an omitted comma or one put in(in the Septuagint) that should not be there! God's Word often has more meanings in the same scriptures. A single verse read multiple times can be used by the Holy Spirit to reveal many different lessons. When you look at the underlying original Hebrew text of Isaiah 53:1 (Isa 53:1 מי האמין לשׁמעתנו וזרוע יהוה על־מי נגלתה׃) it says this literally, Who has faith in what we say and upon Who was the arm of YHVH revealed. Yet in today's Hebrew it would mean this, Who believed in our obedience and the arm of YHVH? I just literally translate what the words say, nothing else. With both Greek and Hebrew the whole sentence of words must be taken into account to see what the Whole means. To do so literally literal would make no sense in English. This is what it would say, (κυριε=Lord τις=who επιστευσεν=he has faith τη=the ακοη=hearing ημων=you(plural)) in other words you have to know the original languages to get what is being said. The first half of Romans 16 for example when the sentence is cut in half would be translated as this, (But not all them(or those) obey the gospel of Isaiah). Certain sentence structures can slightly alter translation and some can even radically alter them simply by only half translating or placing punctuation in a sentence. I can only go by what I read and what I believe the Holy Spirit is telling me to write. But like I said, there are more lessons in God's Word than we are aware of. As an added part to this the word τις is probably your confuser as it can be translated as who or a certain (some)one. But as I said, you have to look at the overall sentence which differs from Isaiah 53:1 and Romans 10:16.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
There is no punctuation in the ancient Greek manuscripts. Any punctuation is a modern interpretation.
I'm only referencing the original Greek source texts, not the English translations where the placement of a comma could alter the meaning. Any commas in a Greek source is a modern addition.
This seems like a reasonable translation from Hebrew to English (although it's upon whom), however the Greek to English interpretation does not match:
Double check the Greek, ημων = "us" (plural), not "you" (plural).
I agree that there can be corruptions in translation and theological misunderstandings from translation errors, but I'm still wondering, how can the Greek phrase κύριε τίς ἐπίστευσεν τῇ ἀκοῇ ἡμῶν be translated differently into English depending on the source text (Textus Receptus / Septuagint) when the words are identical? Why would these interpretations differ so much from the Hebrew source?
@ironshield
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit
You got me on the plural you as I made the mistake and was focussing on other parts of the verse. Having had another look it is the underlying Hebrew which gives us the far more accurate translation of the verse! Isaiah 53:1 Who(or a certain One) the reliable One (or the Authentic, or the faithful One) for we obeyed and the arm(or and the seed) of YHVH upon Who(a certain One) was revealed.
And when you follow one by reading the next verse being in context makes sense! This verse speaks of Yeshua and that sense is not translated into the Greek as Paul refers to it because of the faith that comes from hearing God through His Word which is Yeshua, He is the Word of God and He is the Seed, He is the Faithful One. The pharisees and rabbis have done their best to remove as much of Yeshua as possible from the scriptures by their translations! As for the comma, my copy of the Septuagint has the comma! I copy and paste directly from my Bible software! I know the original doesn't have punctuation yet when you know the scripture you know where the punctuation should go such as in Romans 10:16 where after αλλ ου παντες υπηκουσαν τω ευαγγελιω ησαιας γαρ
λεγει the Isaiah 53:1 quote is placed. That first half translates as, (But not all them(or those) obey the gospel of Isaiah then(or therefore) saying,)
The whole point of translating is to get the whole sentence as a flowing whole so literally translating it like this, ( Romans 10:16(But not all them(or those) obey the gospel of Isaiah then(or therefore) saying, Who(a certain One) the reliable or the authentic (the faithful One) for we obeyed.) does not always sound correct when in context with the rest. And the very next verse can only be translated as saying, (Rom 10:17 So then faith from hearing but hearing through the word of God.) as there is no extra words to translate such as the KJV inserts such as cometh which is not to be found in the Greek text. God clearly tells us not to add nor take away from His Word. Language translation is not always about getting it literal but getting the correct understanding behind the words and as closely to literal as is possible to get both the original writers understanding across and in words we today understand. Between the Hebrew written in the Torah and in the latter prophets you can see a huge difference in the use of the Hebrew language as language is a living thing that alters with each generation so there are different ways of expressing and understanding what is being said. This becomes only apparent to the reader of the original scriptures as words and expressions and spelling change with each writer. It is that which Yeshua reveals to us behind those words through His Holy Spirit what teaches us His True Way! It cannot be learnt, it cannot be taught by man. It is revealed by the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit.
Downvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
Submit