Arguing With Yourself

in anarchism •  8 years ago  (edited)

While it may sound a bit schizophrenic and odd, when it comes to philosophy I think it is very useful for people to spend a good amount of time arguing with themselves, instead of just arguing with others. What I mean by that is, intentionally seek out any contradictions that may exist inside your own head, and sort them out on your own. When it’s just you with your own thoughts, you don’t have to feel pressured or rushed, you won’t look stupid if you admit that you were wrong about something, and you don’t have to care whether or not you win the argument—you only have to care whether your position is morally and logically sound.

Pretty much everyone—including me still, no doubt—has contradictions and misconceptions inside his own head, or at the very least gray areas where things aren’t very clear yet. Get used to this. Unless you’re a deity, it will be that way for all of your life. You will never be finished learning and thinking (unless you just decide to surrender and embrace ignorance), but the more muddled mental crap you can sort out in your lifetime, the better.

At this point, allow me to just hurl this assertion in here: if you advocate civil “government,” in any form, you still have massive contradictions in your view of reality and your thought processes. There are countless examples I could use from all the true believers in the cult of statism, but I suppose the nicest thing to do would be to use my own former statist self as the example. So I will. Back when I was a right-leaning statist, my arguments—if not worded exactly like this—amounted to exactly this:

“I own the fruits of my labor, and for you political leftists to try to use government to forcibly steal what I produce to give to the poor, or the elderly, or anyone else, is immoral and unjustified! Saying it’s okay because it serves the common good, or because it's necessary, is no excuse! You are advocating armed robbery under the guise of taxation, and legalized theft is still wrong!”

So far, so good. I was right about all of that. However, that wasn’t the end of it. Old statist me continued:

“On the other hand, because you benefit from police protection and national defense just by living here, it's perfectly legitimate and justified for you to be taxed to fund those things. And of course, if you don’t pay your taxes, that’s a crime, and there have to be consequences.”

In other words, I tried to manufacture a rationale that would end with the conclusion, “It’s bad for the state to extort me for what you want, but good for it to extort you for what I want.” Not exactly a shining beacon of consistent moral principles, I know. Well, NOW I know that, which was mostly the result of me arguing with myself.

When I became an anarchist in 1996, when I fully gave up the belief in political “authority” and “government,” I knew few if any other people who were anarchists. Yeah, I had read some Lysander Spooner, Albert Jay Nock, etc., but being dead, they were a tad difficult to debate. To be fair, my accidental escaping from authoritarianism was partly a result of my wife, Tessa, and I simultaneously—and inadvertently—arguing each other off the political spectrum entirely.

(Somewhat ironically, an aunt and uncle of Tessa’s were also instrumental in the process, even though they were still minarchists, and were trying to keep us in the minarchist camp. However, in the process they demonstrated that there really can be no logical or moral justification for any flavor of statism, including minarchism, so they accidentally helped to argue us into being anarchists.)

Now if it sounds like I’m so arrogant that I’m saying, “Sort out your own self-contradictory crap, and then you’ll agree with me!” … well … actually … I am. I am saying exactly that, regarding “political” thought anyway. Because statism—the belief in the legitimacy and necessity of “government,” whether left or right, big or small—is an inherently contradictory belief system. But since the point of this article is to suggest that you argue with YOURSELF, not that you argue with me, I will end here with a few ideas and concepts for you to test yourself on, to see if you can articulate a coherent, rational and principled response to each:

1 - “Here is why it is good for me to vote for people who will force my neighbors to pay for what I want, but bad for my neighbors to vote for people who will force me to pay for what they want: …” (essay answer, please)

2 - “Here is why people should be imprisoned by the state for engaging in victimless activities that I find unseemly, but why I should not be imprisoned by the state for engaging in victimless activities that others find unseemly: …” (essay answer, please)

3 - “If I agree with 51% of the population on something, and by way of voting we force our values on the other 49%, that is good—that is the will of the people, that is democracy in action. But if 51% of the population disagrees with me, and uses government to force its values on the 49% (including me) that is unjust and unfair! Here is why: …” (essay answer, please)

4 - “There could be laws that are so wrong and unfair that I would feel justified disobeying them! But it’s not okay for OTHER people to decide which laws they have to follow, because: …” (essay answer, please)

5 - “As long as I’m not threatening, defrauding or harming anyone else, what I do is nobody else’s business! However, it’s okay for me to beg government to meddle into other people’s lives, even when they’re not threatening, defrauding or harming anyone, because …” (essay answer, please)

There, that should keep statists busy for a while. On the bright side, when you argue with yourself, you get to decide who won the debate! Yay!

Authors get paid when people like you upvote their post.
If you enjoyed what you read here, create your account today and start earning FREE STEEM!
Sort Order:  

I constantly argue with myself. It's when it turns violent in public that it's an issue ;)

Vegascomic, I tend to think otherwise. When I argue with myself, I always feel I'm in a win/win situation. I mean, how could it be otherwise since I'm the only one participating in the argument? Lol

I challenge myself daily because my perception of the world around me is in constant flux as I learn more. Doing so helps me recognize inconsistent patterns in thought and, subsequently, philosophy, but to do so effectively one must learn to be brutally honest with one's self.

Although by the same logic, you're also in a lose/lose situation, lol.

Wouldn't it take a schizophrenic to argue with themselves and wind up in a win|lose/lose|win situation? ;)

It would probably take Multiple Personality Disorder!

Yep. It's like sparring. Need to be ready for all kinds of attacks, and ultimately, if you lose...you still win, as long as the main goal is arriving at the truth. Funny how the most "stubborn" are often the most open to new ideas. This is because they have fought so hard to purify and prove the ones they hold, and are stubborn as hell about destroying the faulty ones so they can become even more unassailable, and in touch with the truth.

I love when anarchists argue that cryptocurrency is not a viable alternative to fiat because they are stuck in the old way of finance and economics.

It's probably the human element that cryptocurrency bests regulated but rather than centralized anything. Math is natural. Math is fair.

No one is perfect. Like the saying power corrupts absolutely, it does. Keep up the great posts Larken. Love reading you here.

I really do find this an excellent exercise. Argueing with ones self and realizing our own weaknesses outlines the many many many reasons no one person should be in control. Humans are inherently imperfect. Math is fact. It doesn't vary like the moods and views of the human mind.

Its the safest thing to do when a person wanted to shout an argument.

Yes, this is a good habit to get into. Related to this, I think, is Bryan Caplan's idea of the Political Turing test, which I think is an idea with a lot of untapped potential yet.

lol your essay questions crack me up!

And yes, statism is not a logical, coherent belief system. It is based on masses of people not recognizing their own power, and -falsely- believe the "ruling class" (politicians, kings, priests, megacorp overlords, or any combination of those) are all powerful.

When I argue with myself, I never win. Resistance is futile and compromise is out of the question.

Fantastic article. As your family helped you to a certain degree to form different opinions, the internet is helping thousands(?), or more I hope, to realise that there is a better way for society. Thank you

"intentionally seek out any contradictions that may exist inside your own head, and sort them out on your own."

I like this!

When I argue with myself... I always win

I WON THE DEBATE!! I always win.
John Taylor Gatto (one of my heroes) mentioned exactly that same habit he'd cultivated and nurtured over the course of his life, writing and writing and writing his thoughts down to review and argue with them later. Then revisit them a year later, five years later, etc.. He said that barely a thing he has ever written has remained unchanged under his own challenge.

Which is to say, of course, that great minds think alike :)

Pretty much everyone—including me still, no doubt—has contradictions and misconceptions inside his own head, or at the very least gray areas where things aren’t very clear yet. Get used to this. Unless you’re a deity, it will be that way for all of your life. You will never be finished learning and thinking ...

Another great post ... but I've heard this philosophy before ... many years ago .... hrmmmm...


AngelDevil

I believe this exercise (aurguing with myself) is a very important one, especially in the early stages of giving up the belief in statism. I remember shortly after and during the process how difficult it was for me to have a debate with someone. I would stand on true anarchist principles but my mind would put forth the brain wash statist garbage first. It took some time for this to get re-wired.

A good question, "Is what I am about to do moral or immoral?"

Perhaps, but also a little high-level for many people. I suspect it's better to pose the question more concretely as, "Will what I want to do hurt anyone or anyone's property?" It doesn't have as much scope, but it's easier to grasp.

This is how I became a libertarian (aka anarcho-capitalist) basically. Long nights not being able to sleep because my head is running thru "How to run all of society" instead of resting for work the next morning. I realize now the vanity of even trying to sort out how society should be governed, but I was a Chavez loving leftist at the time.

Anyway, from a former leftist perspective, these questions aren't really that effective. Why? Because the left believes in self-sacrifice for the benefit of the collective. So in every example where you ask if you want such and such at a cost to your own liberty, the answer would yes. They don't have this double standard and are willing to risk a self-imposed tyranny if it serves the greater good.

So, for me, breaking through the notion of a greater good was what brought me around to anarchy (capitalism goes without saying in a free society). Anyway, here are some self-debating questions from a leftist angle:

  1. Do the means justify the end? Does the end justify the means?

This is really the heart of the matter. If the end is the pentacle of human flourishing (as every ideology maintains), than the means are our only path to such a society. Brick by brick we have to work towards a better world.

  1. If the means are immoral how can the ends ever become moral?

If our goal is a better world, how can immorality and injustice be the path forward? This is where the idea of taxation starts breaking down as a tool for good. If we build our society on a rotten foundation, no amount of redecorating is going help much.

  1. Read up on the history of socialism. It you want the lesson of "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" hammered into your skull with resounding monotony , this is the way to do it. I got into socialist history as a fan of socialism but I came away completely disgusted.

As I said, I was a Hugo Chavez supporting socialist at one point. If I had live in Venezuela at the time, I'd have been 100% in support of the socialist revolution there. Fast forward a decade plus and people there are eating there family pets and zoo animals because they can't keep groceries on the shelves. It pains to me to know I supported these policies all because I wanted less people to suffer. But all the good intentions in the world are worthless when implemented via a system of coercion. They get corrupted from the outset.

those are not essay questions. the answers to them are 1)false 2)false 3)false 4)false 5)false. i have to say mr rose, you do not disappoint. thank you.