Well all in a day's work - luckily there are pages that provide lists for these sorts of thing and there was only one lizard (water dragon) that resembled the one I saw.
Very interesting philosophy about the creation of an image. Of course, I think this is more applicable for film photography rather than digital. For instance, what is the "true" photo? If I shoot in JPEG I ask the camera to make decisions regarding the image and than discard the data for me; if I shoot RAW I have all that data but the colour space for web is different than for print so I must adjust the photo data to conform with the use of the image. The moment itself becomes more and more complex with the addition of more technology. However, if I were to shoot on film I have decisions to make in the darkroom during development of the negative and then again during the printing of the photo when using the enlarger. These decisions are for me part of the moment that intertwines with the memory of the act of taking the photo. I love a good adjustment afterwards. Plus street and candid photography isn't really my thing so I can see why I probably disagree with the approach because I like a bit more control.
Here's the original but the difference isn't stark(right click view image to see it in full resolution):
Nevertheless this is a great line of discussion that I will have to make a post about: the philosophy of the image. I'll have to do some research on the different views :) Thanks for your post :) Followed :)
I do shoot mainly on film so there is that. However, I don't do any darkroom work. I find people I can trust with my images and hand them with minimal instruction, as to how I want them processed. To me, that's just a "truer" way of taking pictures. Plus I hate mucking about in post-processing. At most I'll run a scan of a negtive through Lightroom on occasion to iron out any imbalances that can occur during the scanning.
I do agree though, that with digital there is no real "negative". One could say RAW is similar to an unprocessed positive emulsion (like slide film) and during post-processing you receive your final image. However, with film you wouldn't sit there editing each colour channel individually and use a specific approach for the entire roll.
It is true though, that you cannot really take a picture digitally and expect the result to look the same on your phone, desktop and camera screen. This is a problem I frequently encounter with my Fuji XT-10, where the images end up looking a lot more saturated than they should be once they get transferred to my desktop.
As regards the picture, the difference may not be too noticeable, but I prefer it over the edited images in your post. I prefer the more muted tones, which to me make the marking look more natural, as opposed to the images in your post, which seem slightly artificial to me.
I do hope you make a post about the philosophy of the image. Personally, I have been focusing on the differences between digital and analogue and would love to share my input on that post should you have any need of it.
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That explains it ;) Don't get me wrong, I love my medium format film gear (35mm too although it doesn't see as much use these days because I have a 135 back for my Bronica) but film adds extra work and expense perhaps needlessly. Film definitely slows you down and lets you focus on your technique which improves your image (I owe much to film for improving my digital work) but sometimes I feel that if I shoot more than a single roll I'm rushing myself.
The local film shop is a bit apprehensive about discussing the technical aspects of their work and just really prefer to get on with the job and if you don't like the results "we don't really want to hear about it" type of attitude. However this might be because I really like the technical aspects of colour theory and imagining technology which they feel is unrelated to their daily job of processing. While this is probably not the case everywhere it has been my experience.
Digital allows me to take full control over my image making it more mine than anything. The "truth" to any image is of course up for debate; but Adobe Lightroom does allow you to edit your entire shoot in a single go in a similar way to how you would process an entire roll. The changes in saturation are caused by the different colour spaces between display devices. I've calibrated my laptop to sRGB but others might be set differently. I'm lenient with this fact of life because I'm satisfied with the image before its release.
I love colour and bright light and lately my post workflow has been taking me to push the upper limits of the image. Most photographers prefer the opposite and film gives you a far more desaturated / low contrast / halation look anyway so I can acknowledge your point. Human eyesight is biased towards darken tones (probably from an urge to see in dark areas like caves) so difference is increased and darker tones are easier to distinguish. However, most amateur photographic work loves to blur skin, increase brightness, over expose etc. which I guess was my direct competition in days gone by when I would post my work on Facebook. I should join the more "professional" crowd now and adopt a toned down approach :)
Considering our differing points of view, we should have a debate between posts regarding this topic. I'll post mine up soon and we can continue the discussion while earning SBD for our respective posts :D
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That's a really good idea. We could do a kind of your point of view/my point of view post whilst linking each others content. Would have to coordinate a bit though. I can absolutely understand what you are saying about wanting control and digital giving you that ability. Lightroom is a fantastic tool, but I only really ever used it when I was using a slide copier to digitalise my negatives. A painful process, even with the ability to apply my setting to an entire set of images and I quickly decided to pay the premium for high quality scans, if I needed them. If I were in your situation I would probably take a similar approach, can't imagine what benefit a lab would have out of being so utterly difficult about things. I've always been fortunate enough to have good labs around me and cannot really stomach sitting in front of Lightroom that much. In fact, I recently got rid of my entire Adobe CC installation because it was sitting idle. I really like your theory about the human eye being tuned to darker tones for evolutionary reasons. Must put some research into that. Overall I have to say this has been a most enlightening discussion and has given me quite a lot of food for thought. Let me know when you will be putting up your post. Look forward to more stimulating discussions in the future.
BTW which Bronica do you shoot? I have the ETRsi and absolutely love that thing, although it's quite a cumbersome beast. There are few things that come out as nicely as Portra 160 on medium format in my opinion. The detail is simply stunning.
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I was thinking of writing something and you could either write a reply underneath or better yet for exposure write a completely new post as a response and tag mine so more people can follow along. It would be a conversation of sorts except we're being paid - kind of like what academics do when they publish papers and responses to other papers. I'm working on my thesis atm so it will have to be when I have more time but expect it soon :)
I've found film forces me to allows others to take charge of aspects of my creative process because I don't have the equipment to do it myself. Maybe my opinion would be different if I had the equipment but god damn scanning negatives is definitely not my thing; not to mention the need to colour correct always afterwards. Jealous that you have good labs around you but my experience was more business-like and condescending to say the least.
I've read that theory somewhere online but I can't remember where. I'm sure there are other theories regarding our ability to distinguish between darker tones rather than brighter ones. It was mentioned in an advanced colour theory course I took last year as well.
I've got a ETRS with a 150mm and a 75mm lens with various backs including the very rare 135 pano which gives a 70mm width negative (x2 of normal 135 exposure).
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Sounds like a great Idea. I'm equally strapped for time, but that's just the way life kicks us ;-). Let me know when you are ready to delve into it. I think a post vs post approach is probably best if timed correctly.
I can totally understand your frustration with not having any decent labs around. I only discovered mine by chance after calling a place I found on the internet and telling them exactly what I wanted. Luckily they pointed me to my current lab, which I am more than happy with.
As far as scanning film goes, it's a total pain. I have a whole backlog of negatives and the usual slide-copier setup, but it's just a total hassle to set everything up and then go through the scanning procedure. On top of that, my hatred for digital editing software keeps me from going down that road too often, colour correction is a total pain for me.
I'm sure there is a whole bunch of really deep psychology that can be brought into photography to trigger certain human instincts. It's quite the fascinating idea really, that an image can be composed, exposed and presented in such a way, that it totally exploits our basic instincts.
Your ETRS kit is quite something to envy. I have been thinking of expanding upon mine but always drift back to a "why not buy a Hasselblad" mentality (the 6x6 format is really enticing).
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Sounds great I will keep you posted :)
I prefer digital editing over traditional any day of the week. It's great because I can do it all on my laptop and don't have to set anything extra up or pack it away afterwards. I cannot see how you could hate colour correction but to each their own. The camera only captures so much and it would be a shame not to play with the results and improve upon them.
Visual arts are always going to intrigue the imagination :)
The 6x6 formats are really nice and usually allow for many different options - far more than the Bronica offers. Nothing beats the slap of that massive mirror for me and I think I'm over the whole GAS thing (Gear Acquisition Syndrome).
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Traditional editing is not even an option :-D. That would quite literally require me going into photography full time. Overall I guess I just prefer taking pictures than mucking about with them afterwards.
As far as colour correction goes I usually just stick to filters, possibly adjusting WB on a digital camera now and again. I have to say that Fuji does an excellent job of colour rendition and I have been quite pleased with the different film simulations for my very limited digital photography needs.
The 6x6 format is something that's really churning through my brain again. I have to admit that I'm a total gear nut. I just love sorting out all the equipment, laying out what I need and packing it all as efficiently as possible. I'm also a total sucker for researching my purchases. I will spend hours mulling over the pros and cons of various choices. Sadly money doesn't grow on trees, or I would spend all day planning purchases and buying stuff.
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Editing 100s of photos is a breeze with my laptop and less of a pain than taking the film down to the shop and simply paying someone to do it. However, I used to do CGI and enjoy spending time clicking around to get a look I like.
I used to love looking at gear but I think that phase is over. I might upgrade my digital when I've go the cash to spare. Lately using the entry level body and lens and really fine-tuning the approach I take has proved to be fruitful. I wouldn't mind on of those wooden large format cameras to play around with from time to time. Maybe in the future large format digital will become a proper thing instead of being so difficult and expensive to buy in to.
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