I Don&#x27;t Believe in Bidbots

slider2990 (63) · 7 years ago

The problem is new authors without followers get lots in the thousands of new posts per day.

The trending and hot page is filled with either bid bots or autovoting.

What is the solution for new users to jump start and have people actually reading their posts?

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redsandro (40) · 7 years ago

I'm seeing some descent posts that make hundreds of Steem Dollars. As a minnow now that I signed up, I see some excellent posts that make two cents. The first three comments I received on my blog article were bots. There is also a loooooot of low quality posts, and they make two cents or more just the same.

I was excited for my first 48 hours here. Now I'm not sure the system works.

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enolife (56) · 7 years ago (edited)

You're saying the absolute truth. It's a rip off that keeps making the bot owners rich with little effort.

If you wanna help an author, sending liquid Steem or sbd is much better than sending it to bidbot - that's in the case where your VP isn't sufficient enough to reach out or encourage the author.

We'll get there soon

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orisfina (45) · 7 years ago

Is not the fault of some people.
The truth is the competition here presently is too much, imagine you have good contents and nobody to hear you.

It all depends on how you use the bid bots.
We must understand that users must definitely abuse the system but we cannot over rule the advantages of it also

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4 votes

baah (61) · 7 years ago

Abuse is abuse is abuse is abuse. The only advantage abuse has is in overcoming it, yet you seem to imply differently.

You either condone or you condemn abuse.

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orisfina (45) · 7 years ago

We can't condemn the product (bid bots) because it has more advantages than disadvantages. We can only condemn the abusers.
Just my thought

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baah (61) · 7 years ago

The product is abuse itself, do you understand that? Therefore we can definitely condemn and not only the product, but the sellers, and the buyers, with the buyers, always holding more responsibility than the sellers.

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chekohler (70) · 7 years ago

Ive also been rewarding authors I find with direct bids thought I was the only one but since my upvote isn’t worth much and I do stumble across a good piece I feel it’s almost a must and I hope those people eventually pass on the behavior to others! Steemit doesn’t always have to be a major greed fest

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5 votes

pwny (57) · 7 years ago (edited)

When there is a donate button people are willing to use it. Take twitch for example. If Steem integrated with Brave browser perhaps?

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chekohler (70) · 7 years ago

I’m all for a donate button I think that’s a great idea especially since posts can only earn for 7 days! Some posts are ever green and are helpful long after the payout week closes and we should defiantly incorporate donations into steemit

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pwny (57) · 7 years ago

Yeah and I want to resteem posts that can't be resteemed too often!

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chekohler (70) · 7 years ago

It would also be nice to have a resteem counter and for it to be added as a popularity signal and will also make resteeming a more valuable user action

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dolomich (37) · 7 years ago

That's a good idea but why limit it to a single browser ? We should add a donate button directly into the steemit interface, so everyone could use it.

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pwny (57) · 7 years ago

Very true cant argue with that!

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arosebunch (57) · 7 years ago

I couldn’t agree more.

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steevc (73) · 7 years ago

I don't tend to support those who buy big votes, but I will vote up good content if they don't. We can spread the Steem love

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introvertspeaks (51) · 7 years ago

The rationale behind bid bots is that it is the so-called new form of advertising, according to its proponents. What they fail to realize is the long-term psychological effect on the community.

People are beginning to hate the targeted ads served by Facebook, Twitter, Google Adsense to their users. How much more serving it to all people regardless of interest? That is the scenario I see with the Steemit trending tab.

They will argue that Steemit is a stake-based platform, not a charity. Okay, well and good. But don't expect to see quality content on a stake-based platform when anyone can generate ROI for whatever nonsense they wish to shit post.

One of the reasons why I am resigned to the idea of posting anything of value on here. Why would I? It's meaningless at all. A square peg in a round hole. I don't blame the system either. It's the default. I blame people who are trying to fit themselves in an environment not suitable to their life-forms.

It's like a group of starving wolves trying to migrate to the sea because there is plenty of fish, and then blame the ocean for being a hostile place to live.

Before I end this unsolicited mini-rant, let me introduce this tool to people who are serious in their craft. This allows generous content consumers to reward creators directly if they like the shit they are seeing. It can be integrated into Medium, Twitter, YouTube, and many more mainstream applications.

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baah (61) · 7 years ago

That looks great, seems it's redundant to put steem there since it already does everything those do: Publish Content, get Rewarded.

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introvertspeaks (51) · 7 years ago

Spot on! Definitely worth trying for those quality-driven creators.

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redsandro (40) · 7 years ago (edited)

[D]on't expect to see quality content on a stake-based platform when anyone can generate ROI for whatever nonsense they wish to shit post. [...] One of the reasons why I am resigned to the idea of posting anything of value on here.

I've only posted one article and I'm already with you. I've earned $0.01 in six hours, while some really awful posts make dozens of dollars within the first 5 minutes.

The only difference is that I do blame the system. Posts should be eligable to receive rewards for (new) votes for forever. How often have I encountered a great article on a website that was more than a year old? With the short timeframe of 7 days, people are heavily incentivized to leave messy poor quality posts.

The system favors quantity over quality.

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introvertspeaks (51) · 7 years ago

Binance is currently hiring a full-time content writer. Give it a shot!

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toocurious (67) · 7 years ago

I was wondering why we aren't calling the trending page the promoted page? Basically that is what it is no? And that makes a lot more sense to newbies who come on the platform and think you can earn a 1000 dollar with a post and then have to figure out it is almost always payed for by the creator..

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https://steemit.com/steemit/@baah/how-can-kayzen-benefit-steem

baah (61) · 7 years ago (edited)

That's one idea, why not make the promoted page the home page and then let the exposure of steemit.com being only promoted content drive the demand for SBD and not inflate people's wallets and reputations but actually drive up the economy by the fact that all the promoted SBD gets burned into the @null account, which will probably decrease the demand for bidbots substantially and in turn drive up the demand to actually curate or let their stake waste away, much of which could be from watching the homepage for what is promoted there.

https://steemit.com/community/@baah/in-search-for-the-meaning-behind-promotion

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enjar (69) · 7 years ago

It’s why I like using #nobidbot. Not shocking at all how we just get along without them lol. Votes are free and yet people just love to pay for free things lol.

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julietisrael (70) · 7 years ago

Lol
You actually made me laugh when you said

Votes are free and yet people just love to pay for free things

😂 😂 😂

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julietisrael (70) · 7 years ago

Yeah
I actually do not believe in bidbots too but it's so hard for minnows to actually gain grounds here without these bots....

I wish we don't really have to use bidbots to make it on here....

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baah (61) · 7 years ago

You don't have to use bots, using bots is the equivalent of cheating, you want to cheat because cheating gives more gains than playing fair, which is what cheating will always do, and it's not the fault of the game that it's hard, it's only the players that make the game enjoyable or not, fair or not.

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orisfina (45) · 7 years ago

It is more difficult to get audience this days without bid bots.
Until the whales and dolphins look for a way to retain quality contents .

Personally for me it hasn't been easy on the platform and I am very active and also have quality contents but no audience.
Tell me if I have the money wont I use bid bots?

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julietisrael (70) · 7 years ago

You are right about that though
It is not easy as a minnow
To get noticed is difficult and that's why some use bidbots but there is a better way to get noticed without bidbots of course.

Although, that takes a lot of sacrifice 😎

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orisfina (45) · 7 years ago (edited)

What's the better way?
You think commenting?
My dear you might comment all the way and yet most people won't Upvote you nor comment.
Steemit is now business. If you can't put money then get out that's what steemit is telling us.
I hate that fact so much

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baah (61) · 7 years ago

This is exactly what is wrong with the game: every single person that thinks in terms of profit and pandering to get paid. It might seem novel but you could also do it simply because you like to comment, you like to talk and share your ideas and you like to help and encourage others.

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orisfina (45) · 7 years ago

Personally I don't even have enough funds to use bid bots but I don't condemn those using it.
You know why?
If you, the whales, the dolphins and everyone else are playing their part i.e curating quality post and supporting minnows with great content then this would not be happening.

Do you know what it is to be among the new people on this platform with over 1 Million users? No matter how good your post is, it gets buried in less than 5Mins.
Do you know what it is to spends hours writing and preparing a post just to get 0 Upvote?
Personally I spend roughly $30 at times in less than 20 days to buy internet data without getting even up to $1at the end of the month.
You say this because maybe you came in big or maybe lucky to get the audience you have now. There are others with better post with less than half of what you have...

NOTE: I strictly condemn the abuse of Bid bots but this message is a wake up call to everyone to start curating quality post and supporting minnows with no audiences but have quality post because that's the only way steemit can survive. I care about steemit so much and its my goal to promote it all over my community.
Thanks for understanding.

I hope this message will stir us to do better and help promote steemit.

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baah (61) · 7 years ago

It's happening because people cheat and reason that it's ok because it's 1 million people here, and everyone else had it easy or they are in it simply to make money. Yeah, luck has a lot to do with it, but then again luck doesn't mean it's pouring it out of the sky. If you feel entitled to attention, go ahead and buy your attention, it won't give you the proper attention but it's not like you care about whose attention you're getting or why and how.

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orisfina (45) · 7 years ago

So what do you think its the way forward to stopping this abuse from your perspective?

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Show 1 more reply

coolisland (41) · 7 years ago

The community here feels like it is at a crisis point. The Trending feed is broken, seemingly beyond any likely repair, due to the bidbot abuse and there is a growing murmur from the minnows wanting change. The recent backlash against Jerry has been a long time coming but is perhaps too late.

I've got very little steem power, having bought my own STEEM to seed it a little, but it is worth 2c so I spend my time giving people my 2c worth (pun intended). I generally upvote anyone I interact with on steemit as it doesn't cost me anything to do that! By doing this I hope that I'm giving all and sundry the little spark of hope to remain around on steemit and not give up. Claiming that tiny 0.00X SBD and SP warms the cockles of even the hardest heart!

The only way the community can fight back against the scourge of bidbot abuse is to empower the masses. Get upvoting!

Okay well rant over... not sure how this tiny little original post is garnering such rants in the comments...

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allcapsonezero (61) · 7 years ago

I agree with and applaud this practice.

The only issue is you actually finding my wonderful post and reading it. Most posts just fall into the abyss to never be seen or read. If a post gets on the trending page or the hot page, people will read it and that is why, at the moment, bid bots are so heavily used.

It is also, unfortunately in my opinion, in the SMT whitepaper that Steem is to become the "advertising blockchain" where people will pay to get on trending.

It is a complicated issue. One where the community that exists beyond it is going to be fine but could end up not existing due to the direction steemit inc and the ponzi players take this ship.

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coolisland (41) · 7 years ago (edited)

This is the big issue.... Searching for content. There is no middle ground between New (and Noisy) and Trending (and Spammy). I've spent hours trying to find the quality posters amongst the topics that interest me and still my Feed is quite sparse.

I agree that it is likely SMT will be the death of steemit... There is so much mess to resolve with just one currency on the platform! There will be no help for us when the Jerry coin comes to town.

You sir get a follow!

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allcapsonezero (61) · 7 years ago

I wrote an article all about the SMT's and how it doesn't care at all for steemit. I think they will be good for the currency and the blockchain, but not this platform or the community.

As for the vote bot debate... I think we either lead by example or do as the romans do. One will make you more money (and potentially destroy the platform and currency) the other is altruistic.

It is a prisoners dilemma. While you lead by example, you watch people make off like bandits. They could end up bleeding the system dry. There are no promises on which way this goes. It is a tough one.

Personally, I am moving towards not using bid bots and letting the chips fall where they do.

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rodneysreviews (52) · 7 years ago (edited)

Yes, the goal of Steemit should be to stimulate the network effect of newcomers joining, being rewarded, then regularly posting content, encouraged, like Pavlov's dog, to post more. Ultimately, everyone on the Steemit platform benefits from that, because a rise in active users encourages prospective investors to believe that Steemit (and Steem) will one day take over the social media world, so they invest in Steem, and the price of Steem goes up. Bidbots discourage new users from participating, by dispiritingly displacing good content with mediocre content on the trending page, which in turn drives away investors. Steemit has the lead spot in tokenised social media, which I am dead sure is the way of the future, which is why I joined Steemit this week. In the future, all social media platforms will be tokenised, because advertising based social media will be killed by adblocking, and the like. In the future, instead of advertising, brands will buy tokens on social media platforms, and distribute them to visitors of their contents' pages by the likes, votes on comments, or whatever. When Cocoa Cola and Apple buy Steem and set up contents pages on Steemit, because they perceive Steemit's active user base large enough to be worth interacting with, that will be when the network effect will be unstoppable. The imperative should be to achieve network dominance before other Social media tokenised platforms (EOS is coming) catch up by creating an eco-system which rewards content creators more than Steemit does. Bidbots are a poison in the blood of the system, stagnating growth, and allowing other platform builders time to catch up. Steemit is winning, and we shouldn't blow it. We will all win big if Steemit achieves the network effect. :)

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coolisland (41) · 7 years ago

EOS is coming :) Sell all your STEEM and buy a keyboard with an Enter key that works LOL

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bakhtiarzehri (50) · 7 years ago

@stellabelle So what's your idea about authors?

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goldbaba1 (45) · 7 years ago

I don't believe in bid bots either but it's so hard surviving as minnow in this shark zone, many good post will go unnoticed and unappreciated, it's so sad that even that whales only care about their feast only, I hope there could be a better way out of this soon

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baah (61) · 7 years ago

Demand creates Supply, economics 101.

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nonz (42) · 7 years ago

I need to be one of those authors 😂

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fatherfaith (68) · 7 years ago

You have done best

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alishi (69) · 7 years ago

I agree, used it once or twice or so, but felt really guilty, but on the other hand there are so many good post on steemit that do not get rewarded in the way they deserve so I understand why people do it, but now I just carry on every day and hope soon all the posts on steemiteducation will be greatly rewarded since I feel we are all doing something where kids and teachers and parents can benefit

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orisfina (45) · 7 years ago

When you use bid bots and gets guilty then maybe you didn't post quality contents.
Because as long as you don't abuse the system then no problem at all.
We minnows are struggling to gain attention

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alishi (69) · 7 years ago

No that is not the reason - I was not sure if it is something your may do or is it frowned upon. And like I said I understand why we do use it because there are many posts which I think deserves so much more, but because of the vast amounts of posts it gets overlook. So I am not judging, I say I understand and if I can find one that makes it worth my while I will use it (since I now know it is not something you can be flagged for) but the ones I found was not viable. I

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orisfina (45) · 7 years ago

You are on track dear.

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futurethinker (61) · 7 years ago

I agree! Although I do think bidbots could have merit under different circumstances. But the way they are now, is not good for the platform.

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baah (61) · 7 years ago

I'm curious, what merits do you see?

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doctorspence (63) · 7 years ago

So you still pay for upvotes but just not to the authors on steembottracker.com?

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bearbear613 (67) · 7 years ago

you would be a one steemian army. Many whales like the bid bit business.

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baah (61) · 7 years ago

Check out my posts about making Promoted Tab the home page, basically making an actual demand for the exposure that people claim to be seeking, imagine if steemit.com went straight to promoted, instead it is on the bottom and obscure! I'm really glad more people are speaking up about their reputation and stake about this issue!

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erikaflynn (61) · 7 years ago

I do not believe in bidbots, but I still believe in Steemit and true steemians... enough to not look for alternative places

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lifegoalmentor (59) · 7 years ago

To defeat bidbots more communities that are dedicated to promoting great contents need to be created

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darkcentinel (55) · 7 years ago

Totally agree... it's a better way to reward an author.
Thank you again for helping me.

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novacadian (58) · 7 years ago

That's a great idea of sending the authors rewards directly; however if they are the ones supporting bots in the first place it may make them inelligable regardless of the content. 😎

For me, non-proof of brain voting produces counterfeit steem. Traditionally, counterfeit currency is thought to cause inflation unless removed from the economy.

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drigweeu (60) · 7 years ago

Yes you have point just that sometimes new authors feel frustrated of not having upvotes over an hour or days of their quality work

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lanmis (43) · 7 years ago

Have to agree with you. I don't believe in them too.
But some people like shortcuts and seek them everywhere

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artedellavita (64) · 7 years ago

I’ve never used bots! I’m a little minnow in a big wonderful pond and I know the time for abundance will come to everyone💜

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annhoyblog (55) · 7 years ago

You're giving the good old fashioned way!

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