What Do I Have to Do to Convince the Crypto Currency World to Stop Using This Crap Called Coinbase?
All I ever hear is complaints about how shitty the company is and people still want to use it. Does that make sense to you? I used them the first time I bought Bitcoin like many of you? The difference is I did it before Coinbase turned into a flaming pile of crap!
Reasons Why You Should Not Use Coinbase.
- Coinbase has been crashing.
- Banks have been closing accounts if you buy Bitcoin directly from your account.
- Coinbase can close your account at any time.
- When Coinbase has issues it hurts the whole Bitcoin market.
- I Have a stack of other reasons but I will keep them to myself.
For a Visual Reference.
How do You Buy Bitcoin Without Using Coinbase.
Kraken US Based
Crypto Capital Panama Based
Local Bitcoins Peer to Peer Local.
Buy from Your Friends. It Really is the Easiest Way.
I Hope This Post Convinced You to Stop Using Coinbase.
Sometimes it takes losing money or missing an amazing trade to convince people. But heh, I will leave that to you. Experience is the best instructor. For those who live in the USA you guys have a tough road ahead. My best recommendation is to move to a country that values freedom.
Coinbase is definitely struggling these days.
Great use of a Swanson GIF btw
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swanson is my spirit animal.
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A post always gets extra brownie points from me for Parks n Rec gifs. Side note: Just started using this site, and I love how the gifs just show up without having to click the links (like reddit).
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Where is the cheapest fees and reliable?
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I lost a lot of money, it's an abuse of coinbase, I switched to coinapult 3 weeks ago @hilarski.
PD: I laugh a lot with your gifs xDDD
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I love Coinapult especially since we are friends with the CEO and the founder. Crypto Capital bought Coinapult a few years ago.
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I stopped using Coinbase recently, in the last few months and I must say I am much happier. That little number they pulled on the Free Ross account is enough to make me boycott them big time!
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Yup, now they are saying that flags were triggered as the excuse for shutting down access to the account. Apparently it is back up but I am convinced they are just nervous about the bad press.
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I like coinbase for how simple it is to use... however they do suck when bitcoin tanks lol
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I agree with you. Coinbase has been trending in the wrong direction. I first used them years ago and bought a decent amount of BTC (they were only selling BTC at the time). Fast forward a few years later, they send me an email asking me what I use my Bitcoins for. I ignored the email and didn't give them any info (I felt that was an invasion or privacy). As a result, they froze my account without notifying me. I couldn't buy/sell BTC. It took about a week of email exchanges for them to unfreeze my account. If our privacy keeps getting infringed, we are going to be living in an Orwellian world.
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Agreed, that is an extremely intrusive question, but wasn't it on an optional questionnaire? I started to take a "Customer Satisfaction Survey" type of form but seeing it was full of intrusive questions, just abandoned it. Those kinds of questions come from the banks that are under severe regulation, not free-market institutions at all.
Certainly CB comes under pressure from the "know your customer" type of bank regulation. But they would not willingly offend their clients without that external pressure. Someone out there doesn't want the middle (peasant) class to have any kind of independence at all. It's an undeclared, asymmetrical war on freedom.
And take note, the sage advice is to get your assets off of the exchanges for the long haul.
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Wise words. I got into cryptocurrencies (BTC/LTC especially) because I love what they stand for. Decentralized, finite amount, deflationary, anonymity, "be your own bank currency" that puts the power back into the people's hands...away from the central bankers. And yes, it is the banks/IRS that is forcing the hand of Coinbase, so I can't blame Coinbase entirely, but the info they were asking for is completely contradictory to what I believe is the message of cryptos. And yes, I have most of money off the exchanges...around 95%. The other 5% I'm short term trading with.
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They are now working for the wrong team in so many ways. Unlike Coinapult they decided to stay in the USA.
Now they are paying for it.
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I do not think that you should blame it on Coinbase. They pretty much just follow the rules. It is all about systems and regulations.
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So could you research something on buying bitcoin with out the USSA (United Slavelandia States of America) know what your doing. I enjoyed your article but I dont think its any ones business especially a bankrupt GOV knowing your business, oh one last thing I am also a resident of Panama so I am partly out of the USSA system.
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That is why I added Crypto Capital which also owns Coinapult here in Panama.
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Unfortunately, Kraken verificaiton of anything past tier 1 (so, required to deposit USD) is backed up at least a month at the moment, with no end in sight.
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It took approximately 10 days for me to get verified for tier 2
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I just got verified last week for tier 1, took 9 days.
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My experience was similar. I got nearly instant verification for tier 1, but that didn't let me make a deposit. I submitted all my documents that day, and have emailed support several times, however I am still waiting for verification over a month later.
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How can I be anonymous with all these documents ?
Follow me @Yehey
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After buying cryptocurrency, convert it to one of the ones that champion privacy on an exchange, send it to a wallet that you're not publicly connected to, and then no one knows who you are.
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I have heard that as well. Tough times for folks who still want to use fiat currency.
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It's not that folks want to use it, it's that rent has to be paid in fiat.
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I'm at a month now as well for Kraken Tier 2 verification.
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I am so upset with Coinbase now. Well have been for a long time. I am having a big problem transferring my profits out to bank accounts and they don't respond for days. I am getting very worried something is up. Gemini I never had an issues.
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Agreed coinbase = crap stopped using them some time ago. Use Kraken now will check out local bitcoins. Thanks!
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Coinbase is so shady!!! I would never buy or store coins on their platform. It is always going down and I have no Idea why because they charge so much in fees lol
UPVOTED
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I was having such a great time with turning cash into coins using ExpressCoin, but they have dried up it seems. I really wish I could find someone to replace that service.
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Glad I never used Coinbase but then I never needed to in the first place. Always hearing bad things about them now, hopefully they can sort things out for everyones sake.
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I tend to disagree with you on this matter and here is why. The site has been experiencing delays do to the recent large influx of users in the past few months, along with many other crypto sites, mostly resulting in slower Bitcoin transaction times. Also they are by far the most user friendly wallet. Im not sure what you mean when you say, "They can close your account at any time." As any organization whom I choose to do business can close my account, I don't understand how this is any different. It sounds like you personally had a bad expierence with coinbase and are now venting it out to the steemit community. Am I correct in this assumption? Thank you for your post. It's good to have differeing view points, but please feel free to explain you critiques of coinbase in further here!
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Nope, no bad experience here. The only bad experience is the world of Crypto Currency as a whole has to suffer through their incompetence.
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Thank you for you sound logic and reasoning. I appreciate your feedback! Wait, what feedback!
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I like gemini for my USD transactions
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I have written a lot about Coinbase as well as there problems. What I have been telling ppl who ask me about it this...
If you are brand new to crypto use Coinbase to get started and immediately move your funds to a hardware wallet. I still think CB is one of the easiest ways to buy your first BTC.
If you have experience with crypto and are a more advanced user use an exchange like Kraken or Bittrex like you mentioned.
CB has been crashing, long wait times and as you mentioned a lot of issues with banks....but the silver lining (perhaps) is that they are adding large numbers of new users, investing heavily in their business and expanding with projects like GDAX and they have also laucnhed a subsidiary looking to create an Ethereum messaging app. I guess we will have to see how all this plays out, but I hope that can restore some of their reputation.
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This is the voice of reason (VOR). Their problems are sudden, astronomical growth, way beyond their capacity and all the rules & regs of dealing with the banks. If it weren't for CoinBase this movement wouldn't be as far along as it is and by a long shot. But don't expect any thanks.
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Thanks lol. Many other exchanges have had problems that I would argue have been worse than CB. I expect to see more and more of these exchange issues all summer as interest and demand outpaces infrastructure. I am going to try and have an article out about that next week.
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They can go dig a hole and bury it.
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I have never had a problem with Coinbase for purchases. It has always been smooth for me as a way to get from fiat to crypto.
You list a few reason why they are bad but do you have any proof? Any links or additional actual stats? I think that would make your post a lot stronger.
I am simply just responding to your title and honestly this needs a few more elements of hard fact to convince me.
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I must say, I've had no issues with coinbase.
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Very true... coinbase in a total mess these days... localbitcoins or bitpay are better options...
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I hear ya, but I haven't yet had an issue with coinbase.
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Gemini Trust is preety good ...little slow but so far no problems ..thats if you want to purchase BTC and Eth with your Fiat
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Nobody needs exchanges, especially not American-based exchanges. I think it is worth the extra effort to use something like localbitcoins or forums to trade to avoid the big fat middleman with your photo ID scans.
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So far I have found Bittrex to be the best. But do not keep money with an exchange!
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Alot of nice links on this one, especially localbitcoins.
Btw. Check out also BTC tips&tricks posts @Styxer Thanks!
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Last week I was tempted to join Coinbase because I had one bad experience on LocalBitcoins (which is still being disputed). I signed up with a lot of hesitancy because of the bad reviews and decided to reject the idea. There are other things coming down the pipe - better services. I can wait for them.
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Thank you for the alternative sources to buy. Will look into them as soon as I have earned me some coins here. Cheers mate
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fees to send bitcoins out of coinbase 0.00093000 satoshis or $2.20 this crazy
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thx for the info! can i transfer my LiteCoin and Ethereum to one of these?
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Kraken works for you.
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I'm such a rookie... Will Kraken have separate accounts for each crypto, like Coinbase to transfer easily to and from each to keep things simple?
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Short answer, yes; however you should only store it on the exchange (coinbase, kraken, etcetera) when you are buying or selling it. Think if Kraken like a crypto currency version of E-Trade.
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So I should have them ALL offline on a back up hard drive?
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you can always use shapeshift.io
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Couldn't help but chuckle at the hints of humor you meticulously placed there. Well, I never got to use Coinbase because it doesn't support my country but I'm not the least bit disappointed. You've pointed out many other ways to buy Bitcoin (as well as other cryptocurrencies) and I particularly am in love with option 5.
We all know that cryptocurrency is extremely time-sensitive and a company that doesn't maintain uptime will just cause you problems. I can imagine the frustration and helplessness one might feel as he or she watches the price move in favor of their position, as they still try to login to their Coinbase account to place an order and cash-in, and then watch the price go against their position, still trying to login. Then your amazing trade moves further and further away from you until it is out of reach, and you're still trying to login.
seriously though, thanks for informing people of other alternatives
I've also used Paxful a couple of times. It's peer to peer and it has escrow. I haven't found reason to complain about it
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I have found that wallofcoins.com is the easiest and quickest way to get bitcoin or dash. You create an account with your phone number, say how much cash you want to spend and check the local offers.
There are banks and credit unions that you can deposit cash into. Take a picture of the receipt and then write on the receipt and take another picture. Email it back to wallofcoins and they send your coins.
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When I tried to set up an account there I could not complete the process. It kept crashing on me, really odd. So I gave up.
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That is odd... I opened my account without a hitch and I've bought and sold a couple of times. In fact, it's my best option right now because I'm in Zimbabwe and I don't have many options. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to buy or sell Bitcoin from here. Paxful makes it easy for me. Lots of payment options to choose from.
The rates can be high sometimes, but it depends on the seller/buyer you're dealing with and there are plenty to choose from so I can find a good deal.
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Yesterday I opened coinbase account in 10 minutes - excluding time for my doubts. and I completely newbie in a crypto world
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What other platforms can I connect with my bank account? That's the only reason I use Coinbase, because once I'm done with trading, I withdraw it.
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The point of Bitcoin is to not do that but if you must connect to the old world then Kraken is it. I feel bad for you guys stuck in that prison.
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are you saying you get paid in bitcoin only?
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No, I get it. Unfortunately necessity rules over that point right now for me, so it's important for me to have that bridge. I can't pay bills with BTC at the moment.
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Noted. Even though experience is the best teacher, wise people learn from other people's mistakes
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I researched Coinbase and didn't like the idea of linking my bank account to their exchange. Now I'm glad I didn't!
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Thanks for the tip. I didn't know about localbitcoins.com. I will have to check it out.
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I'm based in Germany, which is one of the harshest countries in the EU for internet regulations. If I want to download something or watch something on youtube that is not available here I use an VPN. Would you recommend using a VPN for trade, especially for people from the USA or other countries with very tight and restrictive goverment control?
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Absolutely, that is how many folks do it.
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i also lost my money on coinbase..
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thanks for the heads up, i think i left a little bitcoin in bloody coinbase... i will have to move it somewhere, or maybe its in my wallet? Oh i am so in the cryptodark
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Open a Coinapult account and send it there. Thanks for stopping by @Elissahawke.
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thanks for the tip Randy! Steemit has been a wonderful place for me to meet and get to know smart switched on people WHO I TRUST to advise me, thanks for being a light in a sometimes dreary realm
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I am so upset with Coinbase. Its shady.
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I am promoting this post. I can't tell you how many people I have had to show the way. Just because it's easy doesn't mean it is smart. Thank you for trying to educate this community.
Best,
@Altcoinusa #crypto
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Wow, I appreciate that!
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I use bitpanda to buy ETH,LTC and BTC. No downtimes so far and the support is pretty good as well.
The disadvantage of bitpanda is, that the fee cost is pretty high! That has to be the reason why not many people use it...
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Excellent post @hilarski !
I'm glad I'm off Coinbase but I mainly use poloniex, is kraken really that much better, and if so, why? More coins offered?
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All of my whale friends use Kraken. I don't live in the USA so I don't have any issues.
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Coinbase seems to be SKETCH ☠️.. thanks for the other recommendations!
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Thanks for the post! It is super important to be able to get in, out, and in between crypto and fiat currencies in order to build trust and more pervasive use. I know Coinbase has been sending out apology emails with pleas for patience as they supposedly improve and expand their staffing and capabilities, but it is difficult to tell if this is really happening or not.
The thing is, if I talk to my friends and family about Crypto's and I can't give them simple answers about transferring in and out of them, or if I tell them they have to use some exchange out of some land far far away, their eyes glaze over.
There is a huge need for clear, rock solid pathways in and out of crypto. I think the greatest fear for most people is to be stuck in a virtual world with no way out:)
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Wait.... are you referring to coinbase or conbase? LOL
Coinbase = Garbage
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So, I'm listening...but I am still learning all the basics of crypto and trading. Coinbase was the one I found the easiest tutorial on how to use, and I only just set up my account. (After problems with not being able to log in originally last year). So...question is, will you post tutorials on how to set up and use the others? And throw in the pros and cons if you can? Please? :D
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For those of us who are already using Coinbase, what do you recommend? Switching banks is tedious enough, switching Bitcoin wallets sounds nightmarish for someone who is still learning the ropes.
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Good stuff you might have saved me. I legit was just about to set up a Coinbase account today haha
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Goal Accomplished! Now stay away from Poloniex for trading.
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got it thank you. I am going to open an account on Bittrex
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Totally Agree and was nudging towards kraken over gemini (which is basically coinbase lite). I am convinced, and also following.
Upvoted, Keep up the Great Work!
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I've been using coinbase, until now. Thank you for the warning, i will take it to heart.
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Decentralised exchanges ftw! The kind of problems people are having with coinbase (and other exchanges) are mainly stemming from having one central point of failure.
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They are getting better and better!
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Could do some trading on forums too, the rate will be much lower if I'm not mistaken. But there's a risk that people might scam too.
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I would be extremely cautious taking that route. There are so many horror stories.
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If kraken didn't take a lifetime to verify me, I'd use them too!
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Kraken, Exodus, Poloniex, Bitconnect, Steemit, and Trezor are all Good!!!
Follow @ifzgotdatpiff :)
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Great post- sharing it with my son
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Thanks for this! I started out using coinbase, I haven't been happy with it
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ok, buy from other exchanges, check --
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Spot on, @hilarski.
Coinbase has restricted me from buying or selling for the past 2 months (with no explanation why). I've been moving my currency out of there to Gemini, which has given me zero problems. Gemini is worth trying if you're tired of the verification delays and transfer limits with other services. I was depositing USD within 5 business days.
https://gemini.com/
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I'll bump for the Gemini plug. Top notch.
Acceptable liquidity, great security and infrastructure. Regulated as a trust company so you get a bit more for that.
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Or just use GDAX or Gemini like most civilized traders who don't like paying outrageous fees.
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Like it or not. Coinbase is responsible for the current popularity of Bitcoin and crypto providing the EASIEST entry point for people like myself with no technical knowledge (the majority of people adopting crypto now). You can thank coinbase for 80% of your gains. The whole point is its EASY. Job well done coinbase. Once you are advanced ya, you can use a slew of other services which I do now. But don't hate. Appreciate! Thank you Coinbase for helping me get in and other users so we can contribute to the market cap and all benefit.
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The reason people use it still is because Coinbase is perceived as a good place for newbies to start, It allows instant purchase with debit cards after you create an account, and no one else is doing this. Other exchanges like Gemini and Paxful take takes to verify and it's frustrating to feel like you missing out on crucial market swings(even tho when that happens coinbase is likely down any way)
I think Coinbase is a real threat to crypto at this point and if it continues to fail in the ways you outlined t could discourage newbies and scare them off. I'm hoping a competitor to the debit instant transactions feature comes along, so far I havent found one.
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You are absolutely right, maybe people should start using Bitcoin ATM's or Local Bitcoins instead.
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Kraken is good, I can recommend it
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Been using poloniex (to my regret) to convert my sbd into btc, then I sell it for pp on localbitcoins. Pretty much a dirty way of getting my sbd into fiat in 1 day. (Except poloniex is crap and misplaced my SBD)
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Bittrex has been flawless for me and you could use Blocktrades as well.
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Great advice!, i use localbitcoin for selling BTC, bittrex for buying... still would love to have alternative like decentralized exchanges...
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I was on the fence, but your post has convinced me to stop using Coinbase. Thank you!
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Thank you for making this article. I fail to understand why people continue to use Coinbase, they are such a horrible company! I have missed out on so many opportunities to buy Bitcoin at a low price due to their constant website outages. I converted to Kraken, they are great service!
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Thanks for this information. I will avoid Coinbase.
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Ok i just started learning about all of this like a week ago. thank you for the heads up about coinbase because that was going to be the one i was going to use to do my exchanges. I heard about bancor what is your opinion about this exchange? can i buy cyrto currency on bittrex?
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I am totally new to all this and just set up a wallet with Exodus to get my cryptos out of coinbase and just did a tester send of one litecoin (no pain in that if something goes awry) and am waiting for it to go through -- for some reason I thought the process would be instant but it's not, is this usual?
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I got it all worked out -- this all makes me nervous but I am getting better with each step. Sorry for the "bimboish" question above, feeling like a fool now.
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yesterday Exodus took a while to register a Litecoin transfer for me also. I've had a few slow ones like that and a few quicker so I'm not yet sure what the issue is, whether Exodus or just the blockchain
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Glad to know it's not just me. :)
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Everytime I tried to open the Coinbase, it showed me that current the website is down for maintenance. Guess everything happens for a reason. ^^
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You cover interesting points about not using Coinbase to buy bitcoin, unfortunately, options for US citizens selling for fiat are limited. While localbitcoins may be an option, it is dangerous - some users have been arrested for running "money service businesses" because of doing high value trades.
EU citizens have more options because they're not subject to the same craptastic laws that US citizens are subject to.
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i also use bitbargin for buying btc and ltc. although it is bank transfers i have made many transactions and all have been great. internal wallet and for once its based in the uk!!!!
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Never heard of that one.
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bitbargin.co.uk is the website url. its a peer to peer system with many forms of payment.
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that address seems to be wrong
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sorry its bitbargain.co.uk
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ah, I could not see that little spelling problem for some reason
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Thanks for the info. I have been using Bittrex, but I still use coinbase for credit purchases when I want to get into something immediately. Thanks for the advice!
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Thumbs down on this post. It's easy to exploit dissatisfaction and in strong language that you may have to regret later. At least you didn't recommend the NY bankers.
CoinBase has done enormous service by getting hefty capital into the market in the person of "the little guy." Once the little guys get in first, the big money coming into the market only makes 'em wealthy. Right model.
I saw the video of the founder speaking at the Ethereum Conference and he understands our historical position, really understands economics and has high libertarian ideals.
Yes, many problems have arisen, they've been overwhelmed by events and it will take time to straighten it out. But since they're in business and not Rulership they will have to try to satisfy each and every customer as best they can.
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Now they are selling out. Keep giving them your money, tech and decentralization will leave them in the dust.
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You must keep your real money, certainly your savings, off of the exchanges, that's Standard Operating Procedure anyway.
Heavy regulation is the death nell of all progress and prosperity.
The over-regulated district is our beloved USA Inc -- bhwaa boo-hoo.
Actually I first broke ties to the USA in 1971, in a dither over the draft and Vietnam.
Now still, no matter where you go, they say they own you.
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Thanks for your post and alternatives hilarsky! I just checked in on Steemit but loving all the interesting posts! As an exchange I find them very user-friendly. As A wallet I have decided to go for a Ledgerblue after a VERY nasty experience with Coinbase, costing me a small fortune recently. Soon as I find the time, I will share this experience in detail for my first post.
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I use Coinbase, it's very easy and user friendly, but the fees see so high!
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You don't say!
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I've been using coinbase for a long time without any issues, what I have had issues with are other exchanges that crash and burn, coinbase has always risen from these history or hacks and crashes so out of all of them I have faith in. However just like any exchange it can be crash and burned.
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Coinbase IS THE WORST! Between the ridiculous fees they charge and the bitcoin transaction fees by the time you get your coins to the exchange to buy something you lose your shirt. Furthermore it takes FOREVER to transfer funds from bank to them. THEY SUCK THEY ARE GREEDY AND THEY ARE SLOW AS SHIT. I HATE COINBASE. Thank you for presenting these options I will look into them for sure as I've been wishing to leave coinbase for too long.
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Who would you recommend? Its funny because everyone seems to start on coinbase then when they find there feet they move on to a more complex system, and state the platform that got them started.
Is what you use now as simple to use?
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Coinbase is the largest exchange and yes they have crashes but so far thats the only option for me. What u mean by closing accounts? They do ask for verification documents for each account sizes so long as u provide that didnt see any issues
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Bitfinex is the largest exchange.
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Good Point! I have not use localbitcoins before. Is it a good service ?
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Yes, I recommended it.
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👍 Upvoted! Nice post
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Nice post! Welcome ✍ Custom text animation. Сompetition ✌
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Very helpful..Great article, thanks!
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Tweeted
https://twitter.com/RandyHilarski/status/876106858888646656
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Disclaimer: I am just a bot trying to be helpful.
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Coinbase is still convenient for Europeans. Looking into a Bitcoin visa card for the future.
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@hilarski - thanks so much - time for me to make a change
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Good text @hilarsky, but… Bittrex is doing a strange things of lately :(
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@steemplayer Check out this article!
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definitely keen to try out these other options (for many reasons ;) )
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I was originally using coinbase myself but am in the process of moving my funds to other locations which I consider more reliable and secure.
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And please stop using those shittie Gif pictures, it makes your post unreadable!
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That would be a no, please follow someone else.
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I actually disagree. Coinbase has been a better provider than Kraken for me.
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I know some people have had good experiences but I have never heard anything bad about Kraken.
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Interesting... Thank you for sharing!
Upvoted and followed!
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is chainblock safe???
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I couldn't agree with you more, Coinbase is a joke and I hope they shut down to be honest and more reasonable sites take its place.As much money as they pull in they should have all these issues fixed but they don't want to do what most business models do and actually invest back into themselves for their customers.
This is why I got a Bitpay card, no more headaches lol. Just loaded some BTC on their yesterday, did some shopping and smooth as butter lol. Down with COINBASE, I feel you on this very seriously
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Thanks Mr. H. Your post obviously has stimulated much thought and comment. I have lost 2 bitcoin trying to send them to Peerplays crowdfunding from Coinbase. My mistake but since they control the private key seems like they could retrieve them. No real response to my inquiries despite several emails. Any suggestions?
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This was my last communication from coinbase, sorry ass company!
Hello,
A manual review has determined that you are not eligible to use the Coinbase platform to purchase digital currency. We’re sorry for any inconvenience that this may cause.
We regret that we are not able to supply you with any additional information.
Please note that we have not blocked access to any balance currently in your Coinbase account. While we can no longer process buy orders via our banking relationship, you may withdraw these funds at any time.
Again, I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you.
Regards,
The Coinbase Team
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1.) I don't have any loyalty to any one particular exchange.
2.) I am still waiting on a Tier 3 verification from Kraken submitted more than a month ago.
3.) Sorry you had a bad experience with one exchange in particular, but most of your reasons could just as easily be applied to any other exchange.
4.) Why are you spreading fear in the media about CC. It's like you shoot yourself in the foot cause you don't like your nose.
5.) Do you get a commission from recommending other exchanges? I mean why are you so passionate about getting people to stop using one exchange vs. another?
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Thank you for posting. I'm new to the crypto scene and this is good information!
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Coinbase is dead to me.
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Thanks for the list of alternatives to Coinbase. I'm sure this will be very helpful for many people!
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Definitely agree with you there - I've stopped using Coinbase as soon as they started blocking credit cards. That's why I've stuck to a buy and hold strategy for my cryptos and have been STEEMing even more these past few weeks! Haven't checked out localbitcoins but I did sign up for an account with Kraken. Thanks for raising awareness @hilarski!
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Gotta by from somewhere while Kraken is taking weeks to verify an account, and Coinbase is the best I've found so far. I'll look into some of the other options you listed though, thank you.
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