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busser (64) · 8 years ago

I'm real fan of Ethereum, it's the most sophisticated system now. Regretfully, parhaps, over-sophisticated. Dapps reqire from devs very high qualification and do not forgive (TheDAO). There are plenty Dapps coming, but only few are firmly connected to the real life.
Bitshares is very interesting plaform, it'll be great if they succeed with Bitland project. Its code is not very complicated, but it's infrastructure project.
Lisk IMO is ETH cosplay
Ripple has enormous potential for banks.

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9 votes

joshbreslauer (60) · 8 years ago (edited)

very nice overview ! and very true indeed.

Fun Fact:
did you noticed that
Karl-Theodor Maria Nikolaus Johann Jacob Philipp Franz Joseph Sylvester Freiherr von und zu Guttenberg
( :D this is the name of only one person)
joined the ripple labs in 2014
This is a funny fact about ripple. ( check him out ! "Karl-Theodor zu Guttenberg")
And its even more funny that ripple really could have a potential for banks.
But what would this tell us about banks :D
maybe the truth !

greeting to Mr. Guttenberg (without the Dr.)

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stealthtrader (67) · 8 years ago (edited)

I agree but sadly all of the traders/investors are so focused on the potential of Ethereum, and trying to profit off of a future system (that has not reached the mass level it needs to be as effective as it can be) instead of Steemit which is literally moving faster everyday and more & more people are posting every day. If investors would look at the website and see the value of STEEM and STEEM POWER then I think we could see STEEM reach ETH levels.. even though they are not correlated.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

Could you recommend any resources that well describe the differenxmces between Ethereum and Bitshares?

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busser (64) · 8 years ago

I've read only white papers. Bitshares in many ways is first version of Steem.
The biggest difference - Ethereum is full-Turing language, you may write very complex applications, but result may be quite unexpected hehe. Bitshares - simpler things, but the dumbest farmer has biggest potatoes. Example: https://steemit.com/bitshares/@steempower/the-bitland-project-is-set-to-empower-ghana-through-land-title-registration-corporate-license-approved

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

Yes. @chris-bates' Bitland project is one of the leading pioneers in real-life, socially-beneficial applications. Very inspiring...

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busser (64) · 8 years ago

I mean it's ideal application - it has real value. If successful, results will be seen to everybody. Results of Ethereum Dapps on the first stage are rather negative, IMO because of high complexity.

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bendjmiller222 (64) · 8 years ago

And if one were to look into coding for the blockchain, do you have any recommendations for which language would be most benefitial to learn (whether or not I wind up trying my hand at coding for steemit or another platform).

I know many banks are taking blockchain tech into consideration and a few have already implemented them More Banks Are Trying Out Blockchains For Fund Transfers or are trying them out.

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busser (64) · 8 years ago

I think, if you know C++ well, it's no problem to learn code in any of specialized languages, such as Solidity or Python for Ethereum etc.. I know nothing about Steem coding, though.

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good-karma (76) · 8 years ago

While my earlier comment here relates to this, I think it is very much possible to start building Dapps or smart contracts on Steem. But I don't think there will be one dominant platform where all Dapps will reside, I see future where cross blockchain projects or contracts come to life, for example between Ethereum to Bitshares or Steem to Ethereum, etc. It certainly opens up a lot of doors.

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15 votes

hedge-x (57) · 8 years ago

I think most of the DAPPS will go on Ethereum Blockchain b/c that's what it is designed to do. For Social Media Steemit is the place. The Steemit dollar peg is very interesting for remittance and store of value. Its too early to tell what we happen. One thing for sure no Steemit is booming with life, considering its just a month old!

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good-karma (76) · 8 years ago

Steem has different infrastructure but it is faster than Ethereum, which is key component for Dapps.

Well, same goes for eth, not mature enough. I do agree though, it promised to be or designed to be for dapps but proving that, is another story, the best thing happened in Ethereum is DAO hack.

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herzmeister (63) · 8 years ago (edited)

Blockchains that rely on some form of master nodes (or "witnesses"), like Bitshares, Steem, Ripple are a different category altogether, and as they practically are variations of the Paxos algorithm, they could have been around for about 20 years already.

Satoshi's main innovation was actually the complete trustlessness, in that everyone can run a node (miner) without having to ask anybody, or without being referred or being elected or delegated by anybody. The downside to this is that it makes things like scalability much harder.

But nevertheless, the fame of Bitcoin probably caused a revival of many of those older distributed technologies.

That's not to say that each approach has their own place, their own niche of course. Use the best tool for the job at hand.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

Might you be able to recommend any great resources to clarify the distinctions between the different tools and simplify the differentiating factors between each?

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herzmeister (63) · 8 years ago

It's hard to find any specific literature of the distinctions and comparisons, but the irony is I've been wanting to do a "Battle of the Blockchain" presentation for our local meetup group when I get around to put everything together, and no, I didn't steal the title from you. ;)

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thecryptofiend (74) · 8 years ago

You should write a piece on it. Would be useful for everyone.

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nanzo-scoop (74) · 8 years ago

I think this video by @cryptomarket is a useful introduction for those brand new to crypto,

tldw:

He puts Cryptocurrencies into "buckets"

"dumb" blockchains (no conditional statements), BTC & alts
"smart" blockchains (conditional statements) ETH, EXP, ETC
"decentralised storage" blockchains MAIDSAFE, SIA, STORJCOIN
"decentralised social media/ blogger" blockchains STEEM/Steemit, AKASHA

I think it's useful to point out that different coins are tackling different use cases.

I am a fan of platforms that solve one problem really well than branch out incrementally from there. Platforms that try to take on too much too soon tend to fail.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

Ok... So Bitshares would fit into the same "smart blockchains" class as Ethereum, correct?

And theoretically - one might be able to develop apps on whichever category blockchain might be most appropriate to suit the needs of the app - though could potentially be integrated with other blockchains in the same or different category via an API, custom-coded to the requirements of the application...?

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thecryptofiend (74) · 8 years ago

One of the things I have read is that the graphene platform has much greater scalability than both Bitcoin and ethereum.

I have to take other people's word for it because I am not a programmer and so don't understand the code or it's intricacies.

I think it was described to me by one of the Peerplays developers that Graphene allows many times more transactions per second and that this was one of the reasons that they chose it as the framework for their business (which really requires fast transactions to function as it is a gambling/gaming company).

That is why they chose to use it rather than ethereum (this was pre DAO when it was at peak hype & FOMO) or Bitcoin.

I was interested because up until then I had not really heard about Bitshares or graphene.

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sigmajin (65) · 8 years ago (edited)

wait, so like a blockchain based poker room... like anyone could start a table, and the money on the table would be like a smart contract. shit thats brilliant. you could even set your own rules for rake at a table you start.

Or, literally anyone could make book. you could have like a marketplace for lines and odds.kind of didnt think of that before... i always just say crypto as a way to move the money not a way to make the bet.

now im deep in thought.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

Breakout Coin might be another one besides PeerPlays if into the gambling applications...

And I don't know too much about it, though Augur seems quite interesting as an Ethereum-based predictons market, where anyone could establish their own "market"/bet...

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

Ok... So in the Bitshares/Graphene vs. Ethereum debate - it'd essential come down to a matter of scaleability vs customizability...?

Like, you could go into great detail into coding particular conditions with an Ethereum app - though Bitshares/Graphene could allow faster & more transactions?

Have you come across any good resources that help clarify that distinction in the particulars of what customization details could be possible with Ethereum that are not (yet) available in/with Bitshares/Graphene...?

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thecryptofiend (74) · 8 years ago

I seem to remember someone posting about this kind of comparison - will try to remember where it was and find it. May have been on DAOhub - will have a think and if I can find it I will let you know. It made it pretty easy to understand for us non-coders so would be useful.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

Cool. Please do post the link back here in this thread if you do find it...

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thecryptofiend (74) · 8 years ago

Will do.

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willbeonceagain8 (50) · 8 years ago

We stand upon the edge of the future , we bold explorers of cryptos and blockchains will look back one day and marvel at how we did our bit to change the world. How we took the power from the all powerful and redistributed to the world. We live in an exciting time where everything is possible.

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11 votes

filmaker (38) · 8 years ago

Interesting, as an industry outsider, how quickly you can learn this "New Language", us layman newbies curious about the whole crypto-jargon/game and how to participate with no understanding what so ever of how then engine runs, we just want to get in and drive - Great post, thank you!

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10 votes

cryptomancer (63) · 8 years ago

I am an Ethereum perma-bull. For a generalized smart contract platform I don't think there's anything better. It's easy to let yourself get turned off of Ethereum due to all the negative news surrounding the DAO, but remember that was one single dapp (decentralized application) written by Slock.it, a for-profit company completely separate from the Ethereum Foundation (the entity responsible for development & advancement of the Ethereum blockchain itself). So you can't just say Ethereum itself is too risky or error prone because of the DAO debacle. That would be like blaming Microsoft because someone wrote a bad Windows app that messed up your computer.

Ethereum's promise is that it doesn't limit itself to one particular area of focus, rather it allows developers to create whatever their imaginations can dream up. All it will take for the technology to go mainstream is one killer dapp. One such upcoming dapp which looks very promising is Augur, a decentralized prediction market set to launch later this year.

Steem, on the other hand, is a blockchain focused on one specific goal: to build a decentralized social media platform. It has enjoyed early success because the cryptocurrency technology behind it is invisible to the masses. Sure, you have to learn about Steem power, Steem dollars, etc, but accessing and using Steemit is just like using a regular web site. Someone who knows how to use Reddit can pick up Steemit very quickly. The problem with Ethereum right now is it has a much higher barrier to entry than Steemit. You need much more specialized knowledge to make effective use of it, or even to figure out how to run a dapp. Once the next generation of dapps like Augur come along, I think the underlying Ethereum technology will become hidden from ordinary users in much the same way that the Steem blockchain is hidden, and that will lead to greater rates of adoption by the masses.

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sigmajin (65) · 8 years ago (edited)

I am an Ethereum perma-bull. For a generalized smart contract platform I don't think there's anything better.

COnvince me. TBH every time i hear about ethereum, none of the smart contract capabilities ever impresses me that much.. like its not something i could ever see real people actually using or depending on.

Like if we're not talking about a developer just a business person -- someone thats moving money what is there that do with ethereum that i can't do with bitcoin.

like not theoretically one day someone will develop a smart contract that cleans your asshole for you, right now.

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cryptomancer (63) · 8 years ago

Right now it's hard to imagine all the use cases for smart contracts because the technology is so new and developers are still exploring what can be done with them. It's a little like when the Internet started out, people weren't sure what it was good for and couldn't imagine all the amazing stuff that would come later like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc.

Ethereum's smart contracts are essentially bits of computer code that execute on the blockchain. They are implemented in a programming language called Solidity, which is Turing complete. By Turing complete, I mean that Solidity is a full featured language which can implement any computer program that your imagination can dream up (although whether that program would be efficient and practical to run on a blockchain is another matter altogether).

And that's the advantage Ethereum has over Bitcoin. It can do everything Bitcoin can as far as being a store of value is concerned, but it also has a programming language built into it. Imagine Bitcoin as a simple calculator, then Ethereum is Excel with macros support.

Some example uses of smart contracts include: automated escrow for asset exchanges, locking up money to be released at some specific date in the future (like a trust fund), proof of ownership of physical assets (Digix gold), decentralized exchanges (Etherex), decentralized prediction markets (Augur), gambling apps (Rouleth), and many more that have yet to be dreamed up. Right now the first generation of dapps are kind of hard to use and require technical knowledge of Ethereum, but in the future they will be as simple to use as going to a web site and ordinary people will have no idea that Ethereum is the underlying technology used to implement them, just as when you go to Facebook you don't need to care about the technical details of whatever database system is being used under the covers.

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markrmorrisjr (70) · 8 years ago

I think for someone starting out the answer is easy. Since the app itself is run on programming designed by an outside party, functionality should be essentially the same and the community built here at steemit, where you have contact with members, all the way up to the founders and a completely transparent ledger, showing you exactly how stable the economy is,makes it unique. As to block chain, I am sure there are intricacies I fail to understand, but it seems to me, that provided the system is stable and secure, the rest will work itself out, since it is directly in the interest of every member to improve the system, since they directly benefit from it.
As a side note, I think Heat Ledger may have close up shop, so it would probably not be in contention for your future projects.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

So...

You don't see any significant different between whether choosing to develop on Bitshares, Ethereum, Lisk, etc, if integrating an app into Steemit?

2.Why do you say/foresee that Heat Ledger will have to "close up shop?"

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markrmorrisjr (70) · 8 years ago

I must have taken a bad link, landed on a page that said heat had closed and was disbursing tokens starting Aug 22, thanks to all investors. But, now that same link doesn't look the same.

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markrmorrisjr (70) · 8 years ago

I was suggesting that after looking at what the other platforms currently offer, the social impact of steemit on helping launch might make it easier for a first attempt.

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sigmajin (65) · 8 years ago

for integrating an app into steemit, i imgine the best would be bitshares.. because its graphene based just like steem is.

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bendjmiller222 (64) · 8 years ago

While hopefully you can forgive my lack of technical knowledge of the various platforms, as someone new to the cryptocurrency system, but fascinated in the workings of recent developments I would also like to weigh in a small bit (and hopefully be corrected if wrong)

I have been interested in app development for the blockchain and also wondered how I may go about learning/finding a like minded team that could point me in the right direction as I see blockchain technology becoming an integral part of our daily lives.

Many still do not even realize that bitcoin is founded on blockchain technology because of the crypto-world's attempt to shift away from the negative connotations people still have with bitcoin and the "Silk Road."

I'm very interested in decentralized apps and would love to work on a pandora-like application for steemit. A place where artists could be paid directly without the need for apple or record companies to take a cut.

Without having centralization for new artists music, they could offer songs, albums, tickets, and more and choose only to pay an extremely small $.01 fee to use the pandora like service (I don't know the metrics behind pandora, but would be happy to learn) over time that $.01 to the developers could be further decreased since the sheer volume would increase and net them the same amount.

I envision being able to give musicians feedback directly and upvote content I like and hear similar artists or listen to only new content. A pandora tailored for steemit, that would allow the ability for bands or solo artists to upgrade instruments or quit jobs to focus on their passions instead of having chunks cut out from centralized organizations.

I'd like to make that a reality, but I like @rok-sivante am not skilled enough to know where to begin.

I have much more to say on this, but I do not wish to take up to much of the comment space, but you may message me on steemit chat (@bendjmiller222) and converse further.

I know there are new interesting platforms that allow users to create content and sell directly to consumers like LBRY

And also a growing interest in a Magic The Gathering type blockchain game that is called Spells of Genesis that uses in game currency funded by bitcoin to receive rare cards which can be sold to others.

(If any podcasts wish to cover either of these, please respond and I will check them out as I love to listen to new crypto talk)

Thanks for an avenue to share @rok-sivante. I hope to learn as much as you do from this post.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

For music blockchains, check out Ujo & Muse / PeerTracks. From what I've gathered so far, these are the two making progress. (And Muse/PeerTracks is Bitshares-based).

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bendjmiller222 (64) · 8 years ago

That is great news! I think someone may be able to take their application (if open source) and tweak it to support the features steemit would to add comments and link upvotes to steemit if it were a separate website and not integrated directly into this blockchain (still learning how API's work, so thank you for those layman's terms youtube videos).

I could see features like allowing a dislike that doesn't take money away, but lets a musician know that someone did not agree with their style and allow that user to say why they disliked.

Also a separate flag button for content that shows no effort or may be in the wrong category etc.

I'd love to see who becomes the first successful artist to use the muse/PeerTracks system/steemit application.

A dedicated ios/android app could be made and also require users to sign up for steemit before they can listen to the music. That would allow people who had no interest in posting to still help artists receive credit and feedback from more people and gain exposure.

I definitely need to research far more before I can say anything for certain about how this may work, but I am very excited to say the least. Something I am willing to dive into and ask some musicians here what features they would want to add that are not currently implemented.

Another idea could be a random youtube video viewing service that would allow users to see youtube content that is posted on steemit, but hopefully steemit will soon have its own dedicated video hosting service. This could also be categorized by topic so users could see all the introduceyourself tips without searching out individual videos.

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2 votes

rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

dude, I love the way your brain is working with this.

a bit confused by the first paragraph, though - your language needs further articulation, as there's a distinction in there that's not perfectly clear.

thanks for sharing. there's some golden seeds in that comment for sure.

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http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonathanchester/2016/08/12/bitcoin-or-ethereum-which-blockchain-is-right-for-your-startup/#4a28aa1e5bc8

rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

A good piece from Forbes on Bitcoin vs. Ethereum:

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4 votes

trendwizard (57) · 8 years ago

I got to get the book Blockchain Revolution. I got to get my head wrapped around this whole blockchain stuff. It's the future, I can feel it.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

That book is GOLD. Best on the subject available.

Don Tapscott has been a leading futurist for a while with a solid track record. With his son by his side, they've REALLY been rocking on the blockchain wave...

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freeradical (40) · 8 years ago

Yes, excellent book; I highly recommend it.

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chrisadventures (60) · 8 years ago

Hi @rok-sivante, not this post but another post of you can be found in my #top10 Motivational Steemit Stories to Achieve Success in Life, check it out here: https://steemit.com/steemit/@chrisadventures/official-steemit-top10-top-10-motivational-steemit-stories-on-how-to-achieve-success-in-life-be-inspired-by-chrisadventures

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gebifirm (31) · 8 years ago

I am fan of bitcoin recently tho i started looking into ether and bought some trading my btc. But i think ether is too complicated i just have some for future investment around 250$. And now i invested 30$ on steemit .

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bendjmiller222 (64) · 8 years ago

I have $0 invested in steemit and have received over $2,000 worth of rewards. Unlike investing and hoping for long term growth like ether does, you are in charge of your investment and can grow it depending on the time you spend on it or leave it alone as solely an investment for long term gain since Steem Power earns grows over time.

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blakemiles84 (67) · 8 years ago

@rok-sivante : have you used OpenLedger yet ?

That's the best way to get a feel for what BitShare's value proposition is.

The value proposition that stood out for me with Ethereum immediately was the speed and rate of confirmations. Was mind-blowing after using bitcoin for six months.

I would argue that you are right about the API buildouts. Even if it's not through API but through some sort of agreed upon messaging language throughout the different blockchains, combining the disparate power and strengths of each would be tremendously disruptive to nearly every business model we know of.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

I have been using OpenLedger for a few weeks. However, I'm still not experienced enough in the crypto-game to really acknowledge how it's value stands out amongst the others, as solid enough a statement to attest to Bitshares' value proposition.

The first I used it a couple months ago, it seemed confusing and not up to par - though upon returning to it, I have been impressed. A very nice, sleek, clean, fast, pro interface. Looks & feels quite nice, especially in comparison to Poloniex or Bittrex which I've also been using. Beyond that, I'm not totally sure.

I've grasped bits & pieces of info & opinions from what I've read and sense Bitshares is in a league of its own... Though really don't have the background or knowledge to state why yet...

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cryptomancer (63) · 8 years ago (edited)

I use OpenLedger as well. It also seemed confusing to me when I first started using it, but I came to appreciate & be impressed by it once I got over the initial learning curve. I see two advantages to OpenLedger over other exchanges like Poloniex:

It's decentralized, so less trust in central entities is needed (although there is still some centralization in the gateway services used to get assets into / out of the system)
It's flexible in that you can make a market for pretty much anything. Don't see a market for ETH / whatever-your-favorite-altcoin is? Go ahead and make one.

Sadly it's sometimes difficult to trade on OpenLedger because of the low volumes and thin order books. I hope more people will start to use it so that assets become more liquid. I use it mostly for DGD trading since DGD is not on Poloniex yet.

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10 votes

rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

Have you also tried the direct Bitshares and could comment on the difference between the two?

And/or between any other decentralized exchanges popping up (Bitsquares is one of a few)?

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cryptomancer (63) · 8 years ago

OpenLedger is the only Bitshares platform I have tried, so can't offer a comparison with others, sorry. The only other decentralized exchange I have tried is Bitsquares, and I recommend staying away from it. The UI is nice and fairly intuitive, but the trading process itself is quite clunky and can take up to 24 hours to complete one trade in the worst case. It's more akin to a digital version of meeting someone in person to swap assets, rather than what you would typically think of as a cryptocurrency exchange.

I have heard many rumors of an upcoming Ethereum based decentralized exchange called Etherex, but as far as I know it's still under development with no clear timeline for release.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

thanks for the feedback on Bitsquares. sounds like it definitely needs some upgrades before worth looking at...

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nonlinearone (65) · 8 years ago

Thanks for starting this discussion about various Blockchains. You may find my post with a video all about Ethereum helpful.

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akaninyene-etuk (45) · 8 years ago

Well market forces play a role in all these.

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marz.steemit (35) · 8 years ago

Blockchain revolution ...hmmm ;)

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idliketoknow (25) · 8 years ago (edited)

The crypto-currency space (Bitcoin, Ethereum, Steemit, etc.) is a very busy space right now. The number of crypto/e-currencies or e-currency like instruments is over 500. But the depth of the market drops off pretty quickly. Bitcoin market cap is at ~10Bil USD, Ethereum is ~1 Bil USD. Plus, many of these currencies can be very thinly traded. But there is no doubt that the whole Crypto space will continue to grow, although I'm not sure there is a need for 500+ different crypto's.

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steemgenerator (54) · 8 years ago

DASH has been doing very well for me. I also have some Ethereum and of course Bitcoin. I am up 65% on my NXT buys. I do love cryptos :)

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mrgrey (57) · 8 years ago

The speed reader is back bud lol ....good luck if I had time to study block chain tech a bit better I would have liked take part, perhaps when I get a few articles to make bucks I will be able to have the time to put my head into it, good luck.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

Check out Blockchain Revolution - shouldn't take you long to blaze through it... :-)

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mrgrey (57) · 8 years ago

lol sure will check it out thank you.

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mammasitta (70) · 8 years ago

to be or not to be ....you know what you have to write :)

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chris-bates (59) · 8 years ago

Just remember to question where people's special interests are when they are presenting information about which "blockchain" is the best. I won't say which one "I" believe is the best, but that to me is the biggest problem with the information that is presented to the public about blockchain technology.

There are "gatekeepers" so to speak, that have special interests because they are heavily invested, and only want to see their investments go mainstream.

ALWAYS keep that in mind when reading about blockchains.

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rok-sivante (75) · 8 years ago

great point to keep in mind. hence, I was hoping such a discussion as started here would bring out some balanced perspectives. no doubt, each community will make their cases as to why theirs is "best" - though without the tech background to really break down the distinctions, a good, unbiased, objective comparison would be REALLY awesome to hear/read...

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