A dysteleological response...creative evolution, etc. [post-reply]

in blog •  7 years ago  (edited)

48DCDACA-09F2-40C6-AF1C-5DF3A6E1D652.jpeg Random sculpture. Stage of completion and creator unknown.


The following is my regurgitated response to tkappa’s post: The Dysteleological Argument: Some Things About The Human Body Make No Sense Whatsoever (Part I).



Λοιπόν [so...]

(love this word)

This post is great. Full of information. And interesting to say the least. But, of course there is always one of those...
(*Only one “t” so if you want a pun it’s up to you.)

the dysteleological but

Depending on one’s beliefs this “argument of dysteleology” might in fact be necessary and useful.

It’s a lovely word, dysteleology. But I needed to look it up to fully grasp what it was created* for:

75C4C5AB-3589-4B16-BA11-DEDD83F26E21.jpeg
(*Another punny bit of irony here. Creating a word for an argument against: [perfect, end-goal] creation of the human — vs. evolution.)


So now we need to look up telos (for all those who don’t have a background in Greek language). According to Wikipedia:

7A65450A-21C6-4724-B57F-EAF8F50544D4.jpeg


conclusion on “dysteleology”

We only need this if the reader* doesn’t believe in evolution.

*the reader of this: The Dysteleological Argument...



“Design flaws”

These items that you [@tkappa] mention “above” (including but not limited to things like: too many bones in the feet, the appendix, the prostate, etc.) are parts of the human anatomy that either seem unnecessary or to have been poorly designed.

evolution

But let’s say for arguments sake, that we are organisms that are inherently experiential learners as opposed to now [and relatively newly] sentient and active learners (learning akin to evolution). The flaws in “design” are due to the rapid change in necessity of functioning, over the course of the learning process (evolution), as you (@tkappa) explained “above”. Quoting an example of this from you:

“This is a consequence of our quick evolutionary leap from quadrupeds to bipeds, resulting in our narrow pelvis.”

And to quickly touch upon the “seemingly useless” parts of human anatomy. How do we know for sure that there is no real use or function being provided by those parts? Science is largely based on proven theory. Proven vs disproven; and, theory being theoretical... which leads us to “falsifiability,” please see below, thanks to wiki.


52371609-38DC-46AA-B720-E9160BA766E4.jpeg


41923FDC-CBBB-4601-A475-D77F74596738.jpeg

A1EB29E4-2F49-49E2-8465-34C6AE69A3F1.jpeg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability



baldness

This here may be a touchy subject. I don’t think it needs to be. Why is baldness bad? It is a[n unwanted yet] relatively common occurrence in human males. So it is a societal stigma. It is more related to vainness - at least in modern human evolution.

In the sense that perhaps when we humans were still trying to find mates mainly by who was the most visually or physically appealing, then baldness could have been an issue. But since it didn’t Darwin itself out of the human genepool, then maybe it shouldn’t be viewed as such a bad thing. (“I’m also speaking from a non-experiential standpoint, being a fairly and generally hairy human.”)



“A.D.H*.D” (Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder)

What is this actually? I haven’t looked into it enough but I feel like it might fall under the “falsifiable scientific theory” category (see above). If it (ADHD) is in fact a real thing and in response to the following excerpt from your (@tkapp) post:

“The most interesting part is that of all living creatures only humans are capable of developing such a disorder.”

-Have studies / reasearch been performed on all other species to test or “prove” that it doesn't exist?


final logos

Apologies in advance for the long winded reaction and response. I’m no scientist and didn’t research any of this beyond the 22.613* mins it took me compose this. So this is all essentially my opinion, thoughts and my want for further understanding.

*(Plus the time it took me to make a separate post out of this. Thanks again for accepting my request and in advance for your eagerly anticipated reply.)



ps. This was a potential series of post-reply inspired posts. Where an in depth comment I’ve left on another STEEMians post becomes a separate post.

Stay tuned and thanks for reading!

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Interesting to look at our species as at a product with features ;)

If you think about what's ridiculous about the human body I'd say these are at the bottom of the list - so many things we do every day are ridiculous, beginning with throwing random products inside ourselves to produce energy - that's so far from the sterile visions of future humans from movies, where they ate only pills or used a charger :)
It could be designed differently, then the deficiencies would be different.

Just a note on word creation - when I was 5 I believed a group of the smartest people on earth, including men with long white beards, met around a fire and selected the best words for each language. I didn't consider which language they themselves were speaking though. :)

And a note on baldness - I forgot It's an unwanted thing since I've had female friends. Many women find it attractive. There's something for everyone:)

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Thanks, hope you’re right! It would be cool to get some replies too, in addition to any much appreciated upvotes.

Man!!!!! You're killing me here! I will reply to all with a Part II in 2021.......LMAO

Alright, let's get ready to rumble:

  1. Dysteleology Argument. Alright, with this one I don't know what to tell you. It's how the scientists decided to name it. Who am I to doubt them?

  2. You say: **How do we know for sure that there is no real use or function being provided by those parts? Science is largely based on proven theory. **

See this is the thing, we don't know! You forget something though. Society and everything that includes (science, religion and technology included) transforms from time to time and has to OBEY in the needs of its designer (that would be MAN not God, as it was MEN who created societies). So, if let's say an African or Arabic man is as hairy as a Neanderthal was during the Age of Ice, then there's a problem.

  1. I do not get the whole "Add" thing. Collaborate more here bro.

  2. Baldness!!! It's not that it's a bad thing but it's indeed "malfunction" of the human body. We are born and grow hair, so losing it is not normal. If let's say a bald man has to endure cold weather or water compared to a hairy person, he has a big physical disadvantage. There are cases that hair saved a human from a bullet. Too many examples really.

Do not apologize at all. I truly enjoy your challenges and deep-thinking comments. Just collaborate a bit in the whole "Add" thing because I am lost there ;)

Σορι.

A.D.D. - Attention deficite disorder

vs.

A.D.H.D. - Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder

But I was referring to the later (ADHD) which you mention in your post, I just had a mental lapse.

Btw. I really appreciate and admire your comprehension of and abilty to use the English language.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Thanks for the kind words and compliment, mate. It really means much to me coming from and native English speaker :))))

As for A.D.H.D. I am afraid that there's no debate in this case, bro. It's definitely an issue! Inattention, hyperactivity, excessive stress (for no apparent reason), impulsivity and insomnia among many other issues this thing can cause to someone, make it a "malfunction" for sure!

I wasn’t really questioning its existence since it’s just a man-made label for gathered data that documents a common behavior in humans - “ADHD” - fine I’ll buy it.

It was more the thing about ‘how ADHD doesn’t exist in other animals that I was really questioning... to reinforce the concept of falsifiability:
C4287602-07A6-4A1E-AA6C-53B2598A0B51.jpeg

The element of falsifiability that should be noted is, if you don’t find one instance of something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist but that it has not yet been found. Hyperbolic example:

dragons do not exist / have never existed
vs.
there is no evidence of the existence of dragons.

The latter statement, which is [more] technically correct, if presented as a statistic, tends to get incorrectly restated as the first.

So I guess I’m not questioning the theory but the way it could be misrepresented...

Hope that clarifies...

I’m looking forward to responding in depth (😇😈) to the rest of your response sometime in the near future.

You are raising a very, very interesting topic here (there's no doubt about that) as I happen to be quite a fan myself of the whole falsifiability "argument" (I am a big fan of Karl Popper to begin with). Indeed, there's actual falsifiability in a number of scientific theories and thesis (is there plural for "thesis"?) but I am afraid that ADHD isn't one.

Do not laugh, but my dog (R.I.P.) was diagnosed with it too (I am not playing here). ADHD is not a theory anymore but a scientifically proven condition to men and animals. It's a real thing, bro!

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1180819/

https://www.wagthedoguk.com/2012/11/09/can-dogs-have-attention-deficit-disorder/