In my opinion, the human body is a beautiful thing.
So why do we censor it .... why do we censor it with the the most minimal covering ... why do we mark certain items of the human body as something to be censored .. why have women's nipples become less censorship prone ... why are they censorable versus a man's ... does this make us feel better ... is it strictly cultural ... is it to promote some sense of curiosity ... is the sense of censorship valuable ... what other questions are important with respect to censorship of the human body ... how do you feel others should feel about human body censorship in social mediums?
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Amazing how the body can handle such extreme conditions. Still beautiful!!
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I agree with you, James. We should appreciate ourselves without any connection to how our body looks.
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Your comment is deep. We all know what you said to be true but you put it in a way that really made me snap out of some automated mind set and it's not that I usually judge people harshly anyway.
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Lol .. I hope he figures out how to lose weight!
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Maybe he likes it this way. I hope he finds truth.
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No, I've changed my mind. Cover it up! Cover it up!
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OMG !!!! 😲😨
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I agree with this so much @soundlegion.
Guys always want to uncensor "sexy" ladies bodies, but not any other bodies.
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Why censor beauty? The fat man may be more beutiful in mind than he is in body, but it still doesn't change the fact.
Besides, it's far from censorship by state power or even in most private organisations. It's still 100% on the blockchain.
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Alls fair, right? Thanks for this. I was thinking the same thing.
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She's just a little curvy guys, chilll
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Solution: software should automatically detect sensitive human parts and repaint relevant pixels with the exact same thing. Oh wait..
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It doesn't make sense to me either. Society is stuck on unnatural, Puritan concepts. What is 10-year-old Junior going to do if he sees a nipple? Will that flip a switch and turn him into a serial rapist? I'm guessing the opposite might be true. I think I remember reading that there's less alcoholism in countries where parents give their kids a taste of wine early. If we were looser about nudity and not so deathly afraid of all things related to sex, then maybe there would be less apprehension, frustration, and violence.
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I think the root of this trend is found in practices established thousands of years ago where woman was deliberately set as a servant to man; the alpha male wants his female for himself. Established position through religion and dna it is hard to dismiss guilt around sex and a woman's body just yet. Disclaimer: I am not a feminist just observing trends!
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That may be true. Control certainly has been a factor in the past.
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Being a feminist just means you support equal rights in employment, education, suffrage, etc and want to defend women from rape and abuse. Without feminism women wouldn't be able to vote or own property or choose who they marry.
It's okay to be a feminist; it just means you support equal rights.
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To that extent I agree. But I support equal right for all men and women, wouldn't differentiate between sexes in that aspect. But feminism movement has changed in the past years.
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I'm the furthest from a feminist (still respect women, just as I do men) and I agree with you. I think it has to do both with the fact that men tend to get more obvious arousals and with the keeping of women as "property" of their husbands. A man simply didn't want others to get curious in and possibly lust over his "rightful property". It was a monopoly that simply wasn't to be tested, even in thought.
(which as a supporter of property rights, I of course consider an insane system, yet for its time still understandable)
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I think you have a good point, and I have the same opinion; Prohibiting something will not result in less use and abuse (alcohol, marihuana, abortion, euthanasia etc). In my country (The Netherlands) we are very liberal on these topics, however we do not have excessive usage and problems in our society with these things and freedom.
However, I do see examples in which the culture changes because of presenting more or less single messages. For instance: in Asia a lot of advertisement includes western (white) models which apparently contributes to the strong wish of a growing number of Asian people to be as white as possible (little to no sun bathing, wearing longs sleeves even when it sunny and 35/40+ degrees Celcius).
Another example is the increasing amount of teenager in the Netherlands (and accros the western world) with eating disorders such as anorexia; Apparently the numbers are increasing because of the so many bloggers/vloggers of teenagers with absolutely great bodies; bodies a lot of us are never able to get even if we would train 10 hours a day.
But said that: only proper research can give us an indication if one effects the other.
Some good reads on Internet, Blogging, Vlogging and resulted Eating Disorders:
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You make far too much sense!
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I have just been reading the chapter about Scarcity in Robert B Cialdini's book Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion.
This chapter is all about "buy now" psychology. However it includes a section on Censorship - a few quotes
He quotes research at Purdue University where students were asked in a controlled experiment their attitudes to a book which had an age restriction warning about adult content. Those who saw the warning were more inclined to want to read the book and were more favourably disposed to the content of the book (even before they read it) than the group for whom there was no warning. The research is categoric - censorship creates scarcity and people want it because of the scarcity.
The second part of this quote carries the rub for me. Scarcity increases the possibility o someone liking something before they even get it. .
I grew up in a country (South Africa pre-1994) which had strict censorship of adult material (and political material). Now I like to think I am a law abiding citizen but I certainly did smuggle and possess banned adult material, because it was banned material. And I certainly read a fair amount of banned political material - it was my job as a trainee lawyer to understand that stuff too.
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Maybe modern censorship is reinforced to keep sex-selling advertisement more effective.
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An interesting point. Using attractive people for selling works for a whole bunch of reasons explored in some detail in the book. Sex-selling comes from that.
I had not put the two ideas together - a conspiracy theorist might.
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I'm typically not into conspiracy stuff but it's a possible one really. If the advertisers that fund the budgets of the major US TV networks wanted them to be uncensored from nudity and sex, I believe it would happen.
It certainly would help explain the confusion of why graphic violence is tolerated and embraced on US television daily and showing some dude's butt on NYPD Blue was some monumental occasion.
Sex is too valuable of a tool to dilute.
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Yep, a book worth reading. And interesting personal story. Thanks for the share.
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How does one feel or what does one think? Perhaps the query is well said since the human body revealed does elicit feeling. However rather than answer your query regarding feeling.....emotion given voice....bleujay will express thought.
First definition of nudity...having no clothing..naked..unclothed.
It would be easy to just cite several posts from Steemit when this subject was discussed at length a month or so ago and certainly the approach taken by @pollux.one was novel where he requestesd a rhyme. He received three replies....this was bleujays...
Freedom demands responsibility
Catagorically porn is for horns
so lets get an app for all that
Children our charges
lacking discernment
need not be bombarded
with this or that kitty-kat.
However with @ned asking a query requesting our feeling regarding nudity...one realises the problem is deeper that just applying catagorical thinking to the matter. It is a matter of depraved thinking.
Look at any society in history....who would you rather emulate...that of primitive societies who have nothing better to think about than being aroused and being sexually gratifited or societies that actually could think, invent, discover and developed their thinking beyond the base of self gratification.
Principle. I recognize human depravity exists but I do not agree.
Is this about money...
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If you are taught nudity=sex is bad and then you are bombarded by nudity and sexual innuendos, there will be a lot of confusion/cognitive dissonance, this mindset makes the subject very open to manipulation.
I think nudity is all about context and cultural conditioning. Nudity and art go way back, I can go to a museum and see all sorts of nudity. I can go to different parts of the world and nudity in all it's degrees is either accepted or totally banned to the point if a woman shows her bare head she will be beaten and thrown in jail.
I can't be on a site that has porn freely shown because of the children I care for might get access to my digital divice or a background check on my social life might cause legal problems for my daughter and her custody battle. Something all caretakers need to think about here in America.
Not all nudity is pornographic but could be deemed inappropriate by legal authorities. Nudity sells consumerism and ideology as well. I don't like porn but I don't mind nudity...by Sir Peter Paul Rubens<==Dutch, 28 June 1577 – 30 May 1640
My husband is from the Nederland and what I call porn is everywhere on their tv uncensored and his family is very modest, no one cares.
https://www.wired.com/2011/11/the-psychology-of-nakedness/
I really don't want to see nipples, penises, butts all over everything because it's not done in a natural way. Nudity is used by our media as a tool to manipulate the population.
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Kids: there is a time for everything. Sexualizing kids at a young age promote rabbit-like sexuality which has very negative impact on society.
Promote lust and adultery: "You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to desire her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."
This is why, i dont want it in my newsfeed.
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That's basically what society has been telling us and I'm open to the idea. But I have strong doubts about whether there is any evidence to support that view. Where are the studies showing that looking at nudity turns us into lustful beasts? I don't believe it until I see some support for that view.
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Breasts don't sexualize kids anymore than hanging out with the opposite sex sexualizes kids. 1. Breasts aren't sexual by default. Lot's of women go for topless bike rides or do plenty of non sexual activities topless. You don't HAVE to be using your boobs in a sexual manner. 2. You're more likely to sexualize kids by feeding them artificial estrogen in all that processed crap food from the store and having them listen to hypersexualized song lyrics than you are having them be exposed to honest to god breasts. In fact if kids see breasts in a non sexual setting they'll end up being desensitized to them. 3. Your attitudes are far too puritan but if that's what you believe that doesn't mean everyone in the world needs to adopt your beliefs. Even so having the right to go topless isn't the same as promoting lust and infidelity. Many women go topless with the specific intent to desexualize their breasts and have them viewed in a non sexual setting. I'm a bit iffy about the practicality of that but then again does every girl go all insanely horny every time they see a guy at the beach with his shirt off? No after awhile they'd start blending together. Furthermore just because a girl was topless doesn't mean she'd want to have sex with anyone or be unfaithful to her boyfriend or husband (or girlfriend as the case may be) much the same way as a guy who had his shirt off wouldn't be implying he is interested in sex either. He might just be hot or want to go for a swim or something. Hell he might just enjoy being naked. Being naked does not mean you want to have sex.
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It's a pretty artificial thing. I've written about it and other taboos. Some places people run around topless all the time and people are used to it. Go far enough into the past and the big dresses and such and when a woman showed her ANKLE it was sexual exciting. Then go to places like the outback or tribes in Africa and south america and guys might only wear a Penis Sheathe.
Taboos occur the same way as laws. Someone decides people should behave in a certain way. If they have enough people backing them they make it enFORCEable.
We could do away with all of this censorship, and taboo concerns, but it'd likely require a serious awakening of the minds of the populace, and it might require some religions to go away, or seriously change.
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I say we should find more important things to direct our outrage at then the human body. When we spend time trying to censor the body then we take time away from trying to fix other problems like hate against people.
We as people only have so much time and mental energy each day, let's worry less about nudity and more about issues with much bigger impacts on people's day to day lives.
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I agree, as an artist I was taught to view the human body is an amazing work of art. In Life drawing class we had both male and female models.
Even so, as a heteresexual male I consider it natural that I find the female form more preferable to draw.
With regards to censorship it is a good and difficult question in these modern times that are changing.
As a mature man and artist, I have grown towards admiring subtlety that extenuates sensuality. I try to capture the inner and the outer beauty at the same time. Thus the nudes I paint are sensual rather than sexual.
And yet only a year ago, a local guy in my village, whom I know well, came bursting into my gallery demanding to know why I paint "nude women".
He was a devout christian and it was bothering him somewhat.
I answered: "OK, Tore, take a good look at my work. What do you see. Tell me honestly, do you see sex?"
"No" He answered.
"But why do they have to be nude" He pressed.
"Tore. You love the beauty of Norwegian mountains. I love the beauty of the female form. If I was to paint the mountains, should I then cover them with cloth first"
"Hmm, I need to think about that" He said.
I think my long time approach of capturing the inner and outer beauty is catching on. I read somewhere that certain models are making a good living by sharing their lives online. They are finding that their clients want to know them. This is an interesting development and one the models prefer in that they want their clients to see them not only as an object of desire but as a person.
A thought provoking post.
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I don't think a full naked picture of me would be a beautiful thing, to be honest it is a bit disturbing :D
and I generally think keeping private parts of the body private(as their names imply) is a smart move. we shouldn't be ashamed of our body for sure but we don't need to brag about it too, do we?
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Wy do people censor human intercourse while showing brutal violance?
Installing a nude patch for TombRaider is worse than playing SoldierOfFortune, wtf?
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Yeah that's what I think too. We're more afraid of sex and making love than we are of war and extreme violence. But then making love would bring people together and eventually have people developing empathy. Which in turn would break down the whole war complex and threaten the industrial military complex.
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Censorship about women's nipples? I think we have to understand a difference between a body painting as an art and pictures and just porn. As @hexdek16 mentioned, we won't see if we don't want, but what about children? I found out some Teen new steemians. Some people join with whole family including children. I think there should be something in steemit to protect children from some posts to just sell the naked bodies for fun and for money. I think that is a minimum obligation because steemit is for all ages :)
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If someone child is not interested in Porn, it will just click it away, the same as with images of beer, cats or football players.
If someone does like, she is free to look, because she is per natures definition old enough.
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Why did this kind of question triggered @ned? Is this you trying to get towards on steemit? A chapter on nudity censorship. There are more dogs down my street walking than humans if so. And censorship is there to protect the upcoming of the future generation. Well this is my thoughts. I can't change others. Some people like as they live in Satanic behavior. So it wouldn't surprise me for them to go and say 'ok Boss its Kool'.
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Children?
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Pretty sure most children were introduced to a nipple the day they were born.
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Myself included. :)
Censorship for artistic nudity? Censorship for pornographic "art"? My opinion of what is offensive may be different than the parent of an 11 year old. If Steemit is "all ages", where is the line drawn?
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Lol, children dont care, only their parents.
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I have seen some posts that were really pushing the envelop. What is posted in this post is mild in comparison. I've also seen posts that were very tasteful. Everyone's opinion of what is tasteful is not the same though.
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I desperately tried to search for the Simpsons clip of Homer yelling "The human wang is a beautiful thing!"
No luck.
But that would be my reply.
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I don't see categorizing anything as censorship. Putting nudity in other categories is just tacky and will not create the kind of browsing environment I care to browse.
Allowing me to choose whether I want to see it or not allows others to continue to see if without bothering me so why keep pushing for it to be every where ?
Personally I am finding it hard to take Steemit serious lately.
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Perhaps this calls for more filter options then? Filter as well as search.
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I think the better question should why not censor it?
I doubt the 'beauty' is at the heart of the matter. Also got to think about why people would choose to be showing themselves as naked on social platforms.
I would never have been allowed to leave the house dressed that way as a teen and I am glad I wasn't. It gave me some moral direction towards the adult I would become
I sure wouldn’t want any young teen of mine joining steemit and seing it all over the place. Sets a bad example of what is acceptable
Let's not slide into a deeper underworld
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Well I do feel it's up to everyone to make their own decision. I guess we're mostly conditioned from birth to find nudity unnatural.
For me it stuck! I feel uncomfortable with the idea of sharing a sauna with many nude people, because I don't really want to share that side of me with anyone, besides my boyfriend. To me, it's something private and special to give away.
There's also the idea, I guess, of being 'slapped in the face with the nudity of others' that I don't like. It is not always a beautiful thing, so I find it nice that we have a choice in this. There's nude beaches and shared saunas for people who don't mind. There's other places for people who do.
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Lots of yes men around here.
When Steemit becomes a porn site is when I leave, I'm sure I'll be the only one leaving though Ned so no worries. Good luck to ya.
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Is what I posted above porn? It appeared in my Instagram feed - I believe they must not consider it porn, anyway. I'm not really advocating porn on the site - I'm asking about how we define porn and where are the double standards
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You're seriously asking how to define porn ?
You may not be advocating for porn but some of your staff have, simply showing an ankle use to be unacceptable. As Marx said, destroying morality is the means, not the end.
I just get sick of seeing it debated constantly, should it be allowed while we allow children access. Is forcing it into it's own category censorship, etc etc..
It's like playing cards with my brothers kids.
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Thank you for clarification of your query @ned.
Definition....Porn/Prono is the informal language for the abbreviated form of the word, Pornography. Definition of Pornography....is the portrayal of sexual subject matter for the purpose of sexual arousal.....material that is intended to be viewed for sexual gratification....film,pictures that show naked people and or sex in an open manner.
Source...Wikipedia, Webster-Merriam.
There are multiple standards....culturally and otherwise.
What will be Steemit's standards? How does Steemit want to be perceived?
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In my opinion nudity itself is not worth being censored since it is the most natural and normal thing on Earth. But when nudity turns into sexual innuendo it´s another story and becomes a moral question. A lot of people consider sexuality being private and personal, and it´s part of their culture, religion, belief or value system that it is not shared with others. When we offer them the opportunity to participate in certain content or not, then we simply respect them and their beliefs. Censoring doesn´t mean prohibiting, its a way of branding.
The previous statements also show that there are certain concerns regarding kids education. I still don´t have kids but would agree on that. I wouldn´t have any problem if my little one was watching the naked lady of the first picture copied above. That´s a very beautiful shot by the way. But I would have a problem if I knew him watching a porn video to take it to extremities. Just think of all these little kids who are playing with daddies iPhone at an age of 3. They should have the chance to learn what sexuality is in another way than watching a porn video...
As often in life there is no black or white here. Nudity needs a differentiated interpretation.
Happy weekend!
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Well said surfermarly agreed
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I believe it stems from the "Ego" which in turn becomes a form of control. Aside from practicality there is no need. Although... I do enjoy pockets.
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It's a cultural norm, meaning it's established collectively, at a generational level. Any attempt to make it more liberal from a part of the population will face the inertial opposition from the rest of the crowd. There is nothing wrong or right, per se, in showing naked bodies, it's just that the accepted set of rules, the norm, makes it "inappropriate".
Unless the norm is amended, the perception will continue to be skewed.
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There is nothing wrong with human body exposure in social mediums, as there is nothing wrong with body exposure in the Internet. But, the question directly related to your question: "how serious you like Steemit to be?" and "allowing quality nudity very likely result quickly in porn; don't you think". I personally think that nudity should not be censored per se, but people shall be discouraged to make from Steemit a porn community.
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I don't see any reason not to have porn on steemit just so long as it can get catorgized as porn. Just like on 4chan it gets categorized correctly.
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Please try to remember that it was only a couple decades ago that men got the right to go topless (1934) and it's been a long hard fight. Also breasts haven't always been banned. In the past it was actually legs that were considered sexier. Frankly I think it shouldn't matter what body part you're obsessing over. Don't censor either way.
http://www.nerve.com/love-sex/a-visual-history-of-bare-skin-laws-through-the-ages
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As a Pirate, I can always say that you should never censor good booty. If you do, we'd all be poor.
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Taping has killed music!
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actual photos of nude chicks is ok but when @skeptic posts a cartoon the whales gotta flag it for not using the snfw tag.
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@ned open up what you are thinking of your own post or query? I am sure you are not generating this views or opinion without a doubtful reason. Are you looking into to see who will stick to the platform if you allowed such censorship floating on steemit? So many responses received and no feedback from you will not make this debate valuable. At the same time I do want to congratulate you that there are many that are here who keep you well entertained which I see. lol.
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Free the nipples!
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The human body should be celebrated! I think the nipple is beginning to be more accepted since the "Free the Nipple" feature film (highlighting efforts of a group of women protesting U.S. censorship laws) sparked the "Free the Nipple" movement. The nipple is still very much frowned upon here in Asia though.
Read more here: http://freethenipple.com/film-synopsis/.
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free the nipple
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Yes @ned i agree with you, human body is beautiful. Censorship was quite useful before the birth of the www, in order to restrain children before puberty to see to much beautiful bodies :-) . After that, they will get what they want to see with or without censorship. Nowadays, it's different , i remember finding my son watching porn video at 10yo ( 5 years ago) because of the advertising link on the sidebar from a torrent website i just suggest him to visit !
Referring to a video i saw few months ago, which shows that in 100 years time, our cars and communication devices have progressed a lot, but education system remain the same, i think that it's the time to re-evaluate the usefulness of the censorship in our world and in the social mediums.
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Watch it if you want. Don't if you Don't.
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Perhaps better said, we see so many things in this life that we want to remove from the 'eye gate'. Nudity is far less the offensive object. Greater is things torn by war and destruction, the "that just happened" moment. Censored from reality by mainstream filters called "The News". It's difficult to feel 'offended' - If you have seen so much. IMHO
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so unfortunate I have to dress up my pussy just so she doesn't offend anyone!
of course, I'm sure someone will still be offended, since she's
manspreadingsitting so unlady-like! lolDownvoting a post can decrease pending rewards and make it less visible. Common reasons:
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Before Steemit I basically only used FascistBook, and would post everything (or at least as much that I could get away with) on there, and it would either get banned or people complained... Eventually it made me begin to censor myself simply to avoid that... I'm glad to finally have the freedom to share anything and everything I want without restrictions!
Here's a picture of me naked at the tippy top of a tree! My favorite way to climb hehe 😁
This picture had been banned from FascistBook before, and after realizing that, I reposted it only to receive complaints... I don't understand why though if you can barely even see me from up there!
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It is all about the control over the people. And about creating markets.
Frankly, I don't understand americans. You censor nudity and have the biggest porn industry.
At the same time violence of any kind is widely promoted and encouraged through mass media. Yes, weapons industry is huge, too.
Two different approaches that have the same effect - they sell and control minds. And distract the minds of your citizens from the real issues.
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ESTAS EN TODO LO CORRECTO POR ESO HAY QUE APOYAR EL TOPLESS EN BUENOS AIRES http://www.perfil.com/sociedad/convocan-a-una-tetazo-en-el-obelisco-tras-la-censura-al-topless-de-necochea.phtml
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In the beginning it could have been all about the weather but as humans progressed maybe it became about the money.
Where would the fashion industry be if we all loved our bodies so much we didn't need clothes?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_clothing_and_textiles#Prehistoric_development
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Your question is a war rhetoric act not a real question, am I right? If it's a real question I will handle out an essay about the why. If not: It is a legit question but you know the answer, already. In this case I don't have to write an essay. This would be great.
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I can see bodies run through wood chippers and blown to pieces on tv, but I cant see a nipple?
Really?
It just goes to show who is in charge.
We'd see more nipples if evil wasn't winning.
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I have to agree with you @ned the human body is beautiful thing.
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I think it is about everyone's self image... or ego.
For some reason we have been trained to cover up our own selves and therefore need others to be.
However we must know that it is not every culture that is like this, as example Finland or Sweden, it is not rejected that men and women are in the same sauna or water naked together. This also reflects in advertisement... walk down a French Street and ads have nipples or bums exposed.
But the more "Puritanical" "Religious" countries like the US or UK don't like it.
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Remember that this is American media and companies we are talking about. Not an issue for the rest of us.
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It's everything you said but my main thoughts are that it's more cultural. Laws on nudity are not exactly the same in all countries so in a way, having it on social media is a way to learn a culture for anyone who chooses to do so.
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Culture plays big role telling what is acceptable. Any way I don't have problem with nudity, but the way it's shown sometimes is not very pleasing.
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Woman/girl/womankind/lady/wife is a beautiful creatures. That is what distinguishes it from animals. :)
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It's the decision of the leaders. A centralized shit. And secularism has never happened completely. Christianity (and other religions as well) demonize nudity, sex, etc.
(P.S. I'm waiting for the "you are the son of Satan" comments, lol.)
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I agree, I agree!!!!
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Is it OK to do it on the rug whilst your parents are watching the game on TV, or the kids are watching Disney? Going to the bedroom, and shutting the door, is not censorship, at least not if this decision is not rationalised using censorious language.
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@ned simply because a body like that makes everyone jealous. Still...you can look at the menu, but you have to eat at home!
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We all have the same, some have more some have less. Censorship has gone OTT. But I do think a woman's naked body is nicer than a mans :)
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It seems clear to me that it is cultural thing. Why would a roman emperor show himself in the nude while a christian leader would not.
Why does a muslem woman has to cover her face and a christian does not.
It is simply culture.....
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thanks fin bild
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ESTAS EN TODO LO CORRECTO POR ESO HAY QUE APOTAR EL TOPLESS EN BUENOS AIRES http://www.perfil.com/sociedad/convocan-a-una-tetazo-en-el-obelisco-tras-la-censura-al-topless-de-necochea.phtml
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Does this mean non-porn nudes on steemit can be left SFW?
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I guess it's still up to you.
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Respected @ned I sincerely thank you for your upvoted ! https://steemit.com/introduceyourself/@olga.maslievich/my-bonus-from-steemit-gratitude
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Puritanical concepts like censorship seem abhorrent to me.
If a person owns their body, it is their right to do with it as they want.
If you own your computer, it is your choice to press "hide" if you see something you don't like. You can even just shut your computer off, or the TV, or just shut your eyes tightly if you see something you don't like.
But for you to go beyond your computer, and force people to obey you?
That's going too far.
Nice post, @ned.
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A sound mind in a sound body
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Rainbow gathering
(not my pic)
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You are totally right my friend..
I think that all this censorship is coming from religions.
But even though, there is not a real excuse for that.. "God" created us nude and not with clothes. A birth of a child is a holy thing for all religions (of course under the roof of marriage) but flirting and fcking (for pleasure) is a sin.
For religion we should act like robots.. Like see, marry, fck, child.. with no emotions and nudity involved. haha
Also people are made like this. They have a dark side and a bright side. The bright side is what everyone sees, the dark one is what they see and know. I will give a quick example. A married guy who fcks little girls for payment at nights is the first one who will throw the stone to this girls during the daylight. This is our history, our present and our future.. :(
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