Earlier this week, I posted a short piece on PTSD. The genesis of that was Dave Rubin's interview with Jordan Peterson (which, again, was fantastic and you should check out all 2 hours of it on The Rubin Report).
This is something of a continuation of that.
But for this tidbit, I'd like to talk about something else that was brought up. Moving along from psychology, this is more philosophical. And political. Or cultural, depending on how you want to slice it.
Actually, it's a bridging of philosophy and politics. It's how a specific philosophical premise is necessary for the freedoms we here enjoy.
Western culture is built on the notion that all people have an equal, intrinsic value. This value transcends economic factors (such as income or class), biological factors (such as genetics or physicality), social factors (such as contribution to society), and so on (beliefs, lifestyle, etc).
A doctor, for example, can’t just beat up a homeless man. It doesn’t matter that the doctor’s contribution to society is greater; we all stand equal under the law.
This is explicitly Christian.
Really. You cannot arrive at this premise otherwise.
It’s not something you can prove; it’s something you have to assume.
It’s not a logical idea – not from a naturalistic standpoint. If we are merely biological, just sacks of cells trying to keep the species going, then one’s worth must be tied to genetics. A person is valuable because of desirable genes, or a person is valuable because of their contribution to the group.
“A Darwinian society would be a fascist state.” - Richard Dawkins
It’s also not an idea manifest in any other major religion. You certainly don’t see it in Islam, where women are beaten for not wearing the right clothes and homosexuals are dropped off of rooftops. Nor in Hinduism with its caste system. Buddhism is interesting, because it actually goes the other way; all life has equal value, so there’s no real reason that humans should have more rights than any other animal. Logically, stepping on a cockroach is no different than drowning a nine year old girl.
Here's the big idea:
If you believe that every person has some level of intrinsic value simply by merit of the fact they are a person, then congratulations!!! You hold a uniquely Christian moral!
Why do I bring this up?
My goal here is not primarily apologetic. That Christian doctrine offers a better explanation for human equality than any other worldview doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s true. It should get you thinking – it is apologetic power – but it’s not proof proper.
My goal is simply this: Whether Christian or not, I want you to come away with an appreciation for Christianity that accurately reflects the cornerstone contribution that it has made to the life you enjoy. Because, despite the rhetoric that seems so often raised against it in modern pop culture, Christianity has made a contribution to the life you enjoy.
So, if you like free speech, human rights, democracy, and individual liberty, thank Jesus ;)
"So God created man in his own image; in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them." - Genesis 1:27
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 28
Or really we should look at the "good" parts of Christianity as you would Aseop's Fables.... good stories to make you think about the morals of how we should treat and interact with each other, and the negative effects that can occur.... but once you start saying Jesus was a literal human and the bible was history it's a very slippery slope that ends up hurting humanities growth rather than further it...And really most people want to help each other rather than hurt, i wouldn't call that christian as much as human cultural growth.. i don't believe in any space Jesus or magical Muhammad and i would never want to cause pain or suffering on a fellow human regardless of their class, race, etc. etc... Treat others how you would like to be treated...i'm sure was around way before the bible was compiled by the elite during the council of nicea..no one should be able to tell you who god is or what he should mean to you, or that you will suffer for eternity for not bowing to this magical being... very egotistical to think you can speak for god with a big G or that you know for certain there is one
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Perhaps. But no more egotistical than that say you know for certain there isn't one ;)
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I guess i forgot to say i would be open to say ok there is a christian God if i were shown proof... as of now i see no proof but blind faith... and that's never a good thing when it comes to effecting whole populations or cultures who don't want to be attacked by that... but if homie were to come down and say the bible was true.. i'd be the first to admit i had gotten it all wrong
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Homie did come down. We didn't treat him very nicely.
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hahaha just like the stories of Zeus and medusa right? bout as much evidence to back up those claims as homie turning water to wine... or wanting to stone people for not believing in the commandments.. again there is morality to be gathered from these stories and can be used in a great beneficial way for humanity... but Jesus bringing democracy? wasn't it the pope anointing kings by the power of god... and these kings committing genocide in his name? These dictators... chosen by god?......doesn't sound very Christian to me
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If you are genuinely interested in the historical credibility of homie, I'd recommend "The Resurrection of the Son of God" by N.T. Wright. It's an extremely detailed, scholarly look into the historical claim of Christ's resurrection. It's dry and rather long, but if it's a subject you are interested in, it may be worth checking out.
https://www.amazon.com/Resurrection-Christian-Origins-Question-Vol/dp/0800626796
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Right on... it's always nice to be able to read something from the opposing side that's not just a bunch of i win cause i can yell the loudest lol.. i'll have to see if i can't make it through this one... thanks for the rec
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Side note: Have you seen the interview? Might be worth checking out.
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i really respect Jordan Peterson and believe in almost everything he talks about... it's just the literal Jesus stuff that turns me off a bit... It seems more of an amalgamation of information condensed into an easy to understand story of "Jesus" but those stories were told by humans 1000's of years before the bible or Jesus was ever thought of... again a good moral framework to think about... not a literal history of events... i mean what kind of sick god makes a man take his son to the top of a mountain to sacrifice him... just cause he wanted to see how about god he was? many logical fallacies in the bible that contradict themselves and history
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As do I. And I think Peterson would say something along the lines of, "Yeah, but human history is full of moral stories. Yet this seems to be the only one that has led to a set of coherent structure upon which universal human rights have been able to stand. There seems something unique about that."
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Unique as in... humans with our awesome brains and curiosity have figured out a system to be good to each other... don't need a space dad for that... i mean what kind of "God" would create this kind of torture and suffering and then when you die send you to a place of unimaginable suffering for eternity because you didn't believe in a "God" that would create such a messed up place.... All religion is a control system... always has been, always will be... not to say there aren't tiny good tidbits of morality that came out... but to tell someone believe in me or burn for eternity because i said so.... kind of not what an all loving god would seem to be about... more like the current iteration of the "Church" is very satanic right now... you could fill an encyclopedia with the misbehavings of this church.. and that's just this past century... you have to take the horrible with the so called "good" the church has done and weigh them against each other... with all the money and knowledge the Vatican has... why don't they solve worldly problems.. you know how many billions the Catholic church has... why does God need billions of $? why does god need the most expensive places of worship? If i believed in any of this literally.. i would have to side with "Jesus" from the dead sea scrolls... you are god.. and heaven and hell are right here on earth.. you get to choose which one you create to live in..... haha might be the reason they left those ones out of the King James version... again a King... great democracy at work there am i right? we want to put Christianity on a pedestal and demonize Islam for being violent and barbaric.... ummm they are both Abrahamic religions arguing semantics... lol the same story just very minimal different details... We must get past these control systems as a human race if we are ever going to come together and reach space and beyond...
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With regards to Peterson's interview, I think you first have to deal with the observation (what Christianity has offered seems to work where every other system has failed) and then ask the logical question (why is this the case?). I think that's something Peterson explores in his extensive biblical lecture series. I haven't made it very far into the series yet, but it's been pretty interesting. You can find them on YouTube if interested.
There's quite a bit you have listed out there, but a lot of it seems to orbit the age old question of evil. That is, of course, a great question. But it's also one for which there is no shortage of answers. If you want to kick it really old school, Augustine covered the topic in great length. Dostoyevsky's "The Brothers Karamazov" is a great piece of classic literature on it, but I'd first recommend you to C.S. Lewis' "The Problem of Pain."
I may write a little on this next week as well, if I manage the time.
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