The Scientific Circle Jerking Is Inescapable, Even In Steemit

in circlejerking •  7 years ago  (edited)




When I first joined Steemit I was appalled from the conspiracy bullshit that was trending. I was hoping for some science to shine through. It was hard since most cryptocurrency adopters were people who are contrarians to almost everything and don't trust anything other than their own circle jerked sources.

Later on the "science crew" made a come back. Nonetheless, it was the same shit but from the opposite spectrum. Instead of having guys who did not trust anyone and anything we had people who treated scientific journals like holy books, unable to be able to think for themselves. These are the individuals who are usually funded from governments projects and institutions and are unable to find anything in the real private world. As you can see, quite the opposite from the tinfoilers that despise the government.

Science or conspiracy theories, don't make someone a critical thinker. Most scientists that I have met, follow specific rules, almost like rituals. If it is dictated a certain way through the instruction book then it must be right for them. This is also how we get A and B students working for C students. The "best" students that tend to fall into science are people who learn how to follow the forms without deviating from them. Those who do follow the book instructions not are considered "stupid" yet they are most likely the ones that change the world through their more open minded perspectives — by utilising the close-mindedness of the A and B students.

The point is not who is smarter and who is dumber. That comparison is rather pointless since intelligence is not even a measurable thing. It is something a semi-quasi field (psychology) invented. And again, even if psychology, sociology and most of other social sciences do not follow scientific forms they are followed as science because of tradition — much like religion. And they are believed equally from tinfoilers and scientists alike because some research seems to reinforce their own perspectives.

I tried to resonate with both groups in several occasions but there is no way to argue properly since only some evidence is accepted in each case. The problem with both is that they rely solely on evidence to make any arguments and rather fail to think for themselves. The evidence are not even relevant most of the time.

For example, GMO's are not proven to be safe in the log run. They are just demonstrate to be safe right now and indeed they are crucial for feeding the world. Same thing was assumed about radioactivity (presumably having healing properties) and smoking that was even recommended in hospitals in order to cure some respiratory diseases. It was only in the macro perspective and after a generation or two that we were able to see the harmful after effects of smoking and radioactivity.

Electronic cigarettes or even climate change is also subject to the same critical thinking. We can bring all the evidence we want about current measurements and even set up charts like traders but the truth is that the weather is not a linear thing not something that can be easily predicted — even in the macro scale. Once again, the political narrative is what matters. Heck, even liberal Obama couldn't change the course of things in regards to climate change even if he was supporting the scientific perspective. At the end is all about the interpretation. For those who engaged with statistical analysis, you know exactly what I mean.

If you try to open up a dialogue with scientists about these basic facts they will dismiss you as a "denialist". Same applies when trying to approach tinfoilers. They would pick their own special kind of science that is also based on inconclusive data. Most people forget that in most scientific fields we rarely have any replicable data and that most researchers design experiments to fit their own assumptions. This is how most research is funded actually. A problem is given from the grant committee and the researcher works backwards to fill in the blanks.

The circle jerking create a chasm of knowledge that manifests into a political charade. You either pick a side or end up watching the shitshow between two groups that blindly follow their own sources religiously without being able to think for themselves. Part of the problem is that in this time and age, information is served without much effort. Journals are laid up before us and and trail of references is rarely verified. People pick and choose the views that suit their hypothesis and go from there. Factions are created and then they are extremely hard to break.

So, much like with everything else it is not wise to stand alone and rather pick a side. I believe this is not the way to go but I accept that this is how the world works. I am better off not engaging with either side and rather examine things from my own perspective.

PS: It served me well over the past few years and I suspect it will help me greatly even more in the future. For example, I have argued about problems with intelligence in psychology and reproducibility in science about changing the p-value that indicates statistical significance. Many have ignored because it would render entire fields obsolete. Nonetheless, sooner or later these changes arrive and it becomes hard to look the other way.













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I've worked in both the public and private sector doing research and I can attest to the fact that the scientific community is filled with people who only sometimes apply the scientific method. In academia, as you say, the modus operandi is to backfill to make your grant proposal match the latest trend in government funded research. In the private sector it's all but impossible to get people to manage their businesses even quasi-scientifically. Instead politics reigns supreme as it does anywhere else. Looking at the debating on online public forums, I'm sad to say that it's not much worse among people who have zero training in the field. If you're actually interested in science you just have to think for yourself. There are very few trustworthy sources. Do the scientific thing and be skeptical of everyone's motives.

I worked in both as well. Any intellectual honest person would accept this fact. Instead, we get the insiders believing in "science" whatever that means . empty word with a white coat.

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At first I wasn't certain what you were driving at. This may have been because I went in kind of expecting yet another illustration of the ways in which Steemit is designed to be flawed.

However as the fog quickly cleared it became clear that this was a critcism of dogma in its many forms (often from opposite sides of the same debate) and in this I'd have to nod in agreement - it does go a little too far at times.

Of course some dogma is better supported than others and this serves to further entrench the opposition into suspiciously guarding their views. The ego-contest is also real.

Picking a side is often wise - but it can sometimes be correct to stand alone.

Well... I enjoyed reading. Thanks.

The extremes always seem to make the most noise, squawking loudly while condemning anyone who doesn't wholesale accept their quackery as "total fact" as traitors. I can't help but think they really are more interested in somehow furthering their causes than in establishing the veracity of those self-same causes.

I actually quit Farcebook largely because of this extremist dynamic, as it unfolded during the US Presidential election, a couple of years ago.

At first, Steemit seemed like a haven of sorts; more intelligent... and to the extent there was active dialogue, at least it was more respectful. And yet... here we also seem to be fracturing into anarcho-capitalist libertarians and something else... and yes, I agree there are far too many tinfoil hatters who throw away ideas simply because they don't "match the cause," regardless of whether they are actually good ideas. And they will even "mute" people for asking honest questions.

I'm not sure I am quite ready to throw in the towel yet and simply accept this as "the way of the world." I am pointing (softly/gently) at inconsistencies and ratting cages in a small and gradual way.

Anyway, thanks for bringing this up!

It is very hard to be open about my beliefs, especially regarding facts on history and science I have I not have enough evidence to agree with one side or another. Most of the time, I find the hostile social attitudes of one side or the other leads me to want nothing to do with their views. When someone argues by saying "It was proven a long time ago", or "Only morons disagree with was most experts agree on", and do not source the definitive proof, I know that this person is unreasonable to communicate with. Better off finding a source I trust, then make my own conclusion.

  ·  7 years ago Reveal Comment

@kyriacos , have not dropped in to read your posts and say hi, for a long time (our last communication was about the cars of Musk).

I'm glad to see you have not lost your touch and your post is afire with sparks of all colours. If they keep shooting in from all directions, just be careful none get through to set your hair on fire.
:)

I'll be back now and then to say, hi, if I am still welcome.

Church is church. The mainstream scientific community can cry "scientific method" all they want, repetition and emphasis do not a rational argument make. No amount of enabling self-talk will change the fact that, for the most part, these are devotees of a navel gazing god, whose interest in a genuine search for truth has largely been devoured and destroyed by an obsession with authority (in the form of textbooks and professors), with money (in the form of grants and subsidies, usually from interests that expect a certain result from the research in return for their troubles), and with reputation (in the form of the adoration and respect of the plebeian masses, and the position of "expert" in whatever branch of "science" they happen to have been indoctrinated into).

A very similar critique can be made when it comes to hyper-credulous conspiracists: ulterior motives have pretty much obliterated any genuine desire to discover reality, let alone engage in open-minded debate.

Extremes seem to be the name of the game these days, @kyriacos. It's a form of mass insanity, and it's frightening to those of us who are still capable of rational thought, genuine insight, and deep feeling.

YES! I came from a double sided background (my mother was an RN but my Oma was from the herbalist camp). I have a BS in bio/chem but also did massage for 10 years, worked with herbs myself etc. On facebook, my personal page has evolved into a discussion grounds for people I respect very highly on almost every side of an issue there is. I STRONGLY believe that any 'side' exist for a reason, there is something true hiding in there. If an idea had zero perceived validity it would cease to exist and we would all agree. Now, of course, that validity may be standing on false information or fear, but there is something true within it. Or when we look at a flaw (say the factory line style education we have in the US) before you can dismantle that , you have to make sure that your new solution not only solves the problems within the thing, but the problems that thing solved ( this model took us from school marms and only wealthy kids having tutors to widespread literacy). A real solution has to be painstakingly well rounded. Lastly, I LOVED your use of the word ritual. I have been sorely disappointed in the narrow mindedness of highly educated stem people. We are all taught a history of science when we study it, and we can all see how many ideas were thought of as "100% true, unfallible" for very lengthy periods of time, only to be laughable now. The arrogance of people in a field which is a culmination of human curiosity and imagination shows that like pedantic clergy, they are doing the motions to get the social/career ladder reward, but the underlying insight that the ritual was only a guide to is lost.

Ps: I have the GMO discussion with so many people. Yes some are very helpful and almost surely benign (golden rice), while others have pretty obvious red flags (round up ready). Also, we have a laundry list 12k years long of human fuck ups, some very severe, so erring on the side of caution when things have possibly deadly, widespread effects just doesn't even seem like something any one could be against?!

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The world is complex in it self and that accounts fro different perception to Science depending on people. You can only theorise based on your stance and allow other people have their say. Science is such a matrix and the more we look at it, the more complex one gets.

Everybody choose what the want to hear or see including you. If you want to believe something you will find evidence for it. You can present million evidence about something, but if it not fits with someone's belief system they will call you names and after few days ignore it like they didn't hear and saw it. I give up on trying to convince anyone in anything. No point in that what so ever.

good post @kyriacos

WHAT IS THE MEANING OF PSEUDO-SCIENCE

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

So, much like with everything else it is not wise to stand alone and rather pick a side. I believe this is not the way to go but I accept that this is how the world works. I am better off not engaging with either side and rather examine things from my own perspective.

Agree with this entirely (ie the last sentence!), and had been wondering where it was until it appeared at the end :D ..... the breakthrough point in my life was realising that I can discover for myself (actually think for myself) - that at some critical level, I am my own highest authority and my own tool of learning and expansion. I lose this focus if I get caught up trying to convince anyone of this or that.

Hey There. I've followed you since I first saw one of your articles on the bullshit of science! I just wanna say. I think you are pointing out some valuable things and I hope hope hope that helps change it (Steemit and conflict of interest, imbalance of votes or "something"!!??) Grr. I think a lot of people are frustrated. So don't give up. Keep speaking out.

Resteem. People dont know probability theory and talk to much about what their institutes told them. The whole steemit projekt is bullshit. The same Bullshit like calling research "science". Research is nothing but industrial. Its not worth for an idealist to put any (big) money in this platform. The bullshit-attractor is to strong. People are my evidence

Instead of having guys who did not trust anyone and anything we had people who treated scientific journals like holy books, unable to be able to think for themselves

Isn't this a little bit exaggerated?

Nop. Most people pick their references and formulate a narrative. Much easier if you are doing a Masters or Ph.D. The cult gets more concentrated with post-docs and the higher ups who bother to publish as much as possible in a specific area.

The cherry on top of it all is tenureship. Which is basically kinghsip. Nobody and nothing can remove them.

Ad lets no forget how most these journals work, the money under the table and the special interests they serve. Nonetheless, they are treated much like the holy grail of science even though most papers do not follow the appropriate standards.

I must confess that I am not too sure to follow your answer. Are you talking about steemit, or about real life, or both...

Nop. Most people pick their references and formulate a narrative. Much easier if you are doing a Masters or Ph.D. The cult gets more concentrated with post-docs and the higher ups who bother to publish as much as possible in a specific area.

I assume you discuss here steemit posts. Some authors do that, that is true. And to be honest, this is not what I personally prefer. I like when there is a personal touch in the text, an interesting approach. But I prefer 1000 times a narrative article discussing something scientific than some conspiracy theory, for instance.

The cherry on top of it all is tenureship. Which is basically kinghsip. Nobody and nothing can remove them.

In real life, I know counter-examples (of my field, but I am pretty sure you can find some from other field as well). On steemit, I don't see the point here.

Ad lets no forget how most these journals work, the money under the table and the special interests they serve. Nonetheless, they are treated much like the holy grail of science even though most papers do not follow the appropriate standards.

This is not true for all journals and all fields. My own field is an example (have a look to the arxiv or scipost).

  ·  7 years ago Reveal Comment
  ·  7 years ago Reveal Comment