Testing If People Read Something Before Letting Them CommentsteemCreated with Sketch.

in comments •  7 years ago  (edited)

Comments bring engagement, but can also bring spam, trolling or hate to the page being viewed. Some sites don't allow comments, and some have tried but removed them. Comments can quickly escalate from a positive addition to the post in some way -- to add info or correct it -- but can also easily become negative or "toxic" and no longer add anything relevant to the topic at hand.


Source 1, 2

With all the spam and trolling abusers out there leaving comments, it might be better if we could test the commenter on whether they have read that content they are about to respond to. There could be a popup asking a few questions in multiple choice about what the content was about. This would filter in two ways: 1) the people who didn't read -- and likely didn't have much of relevance to add -- would have a harder time answering correctly, and 2) many people who don't really have anything meaningful to say will just not want to be bothered trying in the first place.

In order to comment, you would need to prove you actually read what you claim to be commenting about. Spam would be more easily filtered, but trolls often do read and have mean things to say just because they want to. They are willing to go through the extra effort to try to get the attention they want.

A Norwegian broadcaster, NRK, has made this decision recently, where a quiz will ask commenters about the story before letting them comment. They hope forcing people to take 15 seconds will calm them down and reduce the emotional responses and anger in quick reactionary comments. The tool will present multiple choice questions (like knowing the right acronym from the story) and ensure that everyone who does comment actually knows what they are talking about before they can comment.

“If you spend 15 seconds on it, those are maybe 15 seconds that take the edge off the rant mode when people are commenting,” said Marius Arnesen, editor of NKRbeta.

Some people might think this would work on Steemit, but despite similar issues with a lack of real engagement on posts, this wouldn't work for the blockchain because anyone can bypass the front-end sites like Steemit that would have this feature. You don't need to use a site to vote, post or comment on the blockchain.

The "toxic" comments aren't the only thing being looked at as "toxic", but whole content itself. Google recently announced it will be working with the Vietnamese communist government to quash "toxic" content and "illegal information" from Google. As usual with communist controllers, they don't tolerate much dissent. Anti-government talk is toxic to the commie government. No kidding.

Google is eying Vietnam since it's one of Asia's fastest growing economies, which makes it a hot target for investment, like developing global consumer brands. It has worked well in other places like China, despite their continued silence of dissidents.

I think it's interesting and worth a try. If you really want to comment, you can answer 4 questions about what you read. It's a small price to pay to make sure other people are doing the same. Too bad the only way to combat comment spam or whatnot on Steem right now is individually by telling people about their comments or with flags. A feature would work for the people who use the front-end sites like steemit, busy, etc., but not for people who spam with bots or use the backend to input data into the blockchain. However, it would reduce the load of crap comments coming from the interface sites at least. I don't think it will ever be implemented, but it's an interesting idea I wanted to present anyways :P

Do you like the idea of testing or quizzing before commenting?
Will this help get rid of useless comments alone, or also reduce the overall amount of relevant comments?


Thank you for your time and attention. Peace.


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The way this will be handled, in the future, is by something similar to a black list. You know your friends and those who post regularly. Even the ones who disagree. (good disagreers are hard to find) and so, you know who to white list.

The black list is hard, because currently it is viewed as system wide. But really, it should be more of a group level thing. Or, you subscribe to a friend/service that has the same outlook as you and has the time / takes the time to weed out the good from the bad.

As steemit grows, this will become even more necessary as following the entirety will become too hard / impossible.

So, I see the solution as filters. Both macro and micro filters. Both group and individual filters.

Good idea! Custom filters made by people, that anyone can "subscribe" to. Like it a lot!

I probably would comment less. I feel like my comments are relevant.. Reading the article and commenting takes enough time without adding a quiz between haha! It would completely get rid of bots and the typical good posts, plz follow posts. I don't know where I stand on that. Im still a new user, not big or popular enough t have bots showing up all the time, it would be annoying though. So, basically.. sucks for you haha! You will figure it out though, then I can use your strategy before my posts start being over run with it..

Reading the article and commenting takes enough time without adding a quiz between haha!

LOL, Yeah that's one major issue. It's not much of an issue maybe for individuals, but overall it adds up to a lot of useless posts. Ah wellz.

What about a crappy image verify. It would work decent. Lots of things in crypto already use them. They probably stop some bots. I don't know what the best solution is, it does need to be discussed and addressed though!

That only means you can read the image verify, not that you read the content lol. The original point is about getting meaningful comments. A verify image would help for bot spam for sure

good points Pbock and Krnel. We gotta start somewhere though. I don't know. I owuld still respond from time to time if I had a quiz to do as well, It would just be more rarely. Only when I wanted to argue probably haha! If I just wanted to throw a link thats related and give a different perspective, I might not be excited enough to bother with the quiz after Ive read it.. Its good to start thinking of ideas though. Spam comments do suck, and something needs to be done!

I think it will have to come down to individual behavior to deal with other people's individual behavior lol.

Well, Crappy Image verification is NOT going to stop bots build from today onward.
With our current technology, it won't be too long before a basic guide/code template for bots that can easily bypass captcha and image verification becomes common place.

Bypassing a quiz that asks for knowledge of the post, especially if you have to actually understand the post (no "what was the first word on the second line" or "what is the main subject of the post") would require relatively good AI, which would need more space to be hosted and/or time to be created, which would reduce their prevalence (unless, of course, someone begins selling them specifically for that purpose).

I imagine questions like
" in this post, which of these did the author recommend for stopping stupid comments?

  1. kill those #€!!!€#
  2. Force them to read it ! time the bastards.
  3. Get them to prove they read it !
    "

Most Plz follows and Good Post would, indeed, be eliminated this way, or the poster would unknowingly be forced to actual ingest the post before posting, which might tempt them to actually comment something more interesting than just "Amazing post, I love you... Love me back !!!"

You have indeed pointed a out a very real problem with a platform like this (any pretty much any place that allows comments), but I'm not sure the solution is that practical though I'm interested in the results from the trial run that they are trying. I can't decide on an opinion on the idea as I like some aspects and worry about others.

I personally see two ways something like that can be abused. The first option would be for the author to put subjective things in the answers and in this way filtering out comments on the basis of opinion.

The second thing that might happen is for a market for an automated way to break this type of quiz-to-comment like there is one for Captchas. A service like this could probe the possible answers from a few IPs and thus learn the correct answers and then provide them to people building algorithms leaving spammy comments. Since the bar for commenting would be higher, spammy comments might end up being more valuable to the spammer who has the technical ability to clear it.

In a way spammers and honest publishers are always going to be playing a game of cat and mouse and you also see that on steem/steemit. Spamming on a large scale is always a profitable enterprise even when the community is actively fighting against it as there are always enough gullible people to fall for it. In the case of this platform to give a generic automated comment like "I agree with you" an upvote and in the more general internet case to follow a dubious link and to possibly even to purchase a dubious product.

I don't really support it. It was an idea from what other people are doing because of issues they have. Steemit isn't big yet, but maybe in the future something like this, on a voluntary author basis, might be desired by some authors. Maybe clever people get by it anyways, but the authors might welcome a reduction in overall crap and let those who care to do a quiz get through, while maybe some spam still does.

It is an interesting concept indeed and sure worthy of exploration. Do you think there would be any way to actually build something like that into the blockchain itself, not just the interface? Like solving the quiz correctly would give you a specific posting key to allow you to post under a specific post? I'm kind of shooting in the dark since I don't really understand the underlying technology that well.

An overall reduction in spam would be welcome and it's the most one could actually hope for. You are right that the fact that we can't stop all spam doesn't make stoping some spam useless.

unfortunately making it harder to participate even with a simple quiz may be a turn off for some as we are use to the rapid fire pace of normal social media. It's hard to go backwards when our attention spans are shorter and shorter - or at least that's my view.

Its an interesting point tho!

use to the rapid fire pace of normal social media. It's hard to go backwards when our attention spans are shorter and shorter

Good points ;)

My attention span is only short when what is in front of me is not worth reading!
If it is worth reading, I will read it - my attention span is flexible. ;-)

As in other similar cases, the important thing is to change the balance - in this case the balance between bot-activity and human.

So, instead of making it harder for humans, what about making it harder for bots? For example, use the cookies to verify a real online user and blacklist the bots.

This may stop some of the script-kiddies, but the fundamental issues remain: we can all interact with the blockchain at the system level - if we know how to - and therefore the user interfaces (UIs) such as Steemit have to do something clever that adds to the blockchain a non-trivial parameter.

I don't, as yet, have a great solution to this! :-)

On Steemit, they want bots, so the high SP people can make money curating, since they are discouraged from voting and controlling the allocation of rewards in a small group of highest SP users.

I wish we could all care about doing the best behavior on the platform, but ppl have their own motivations for their own gain.

i think this is interesting for medias like NRK (news and media publishers)

but on more like a social network that i feel steemit is, i think the community should be the "moderators" by only upvoting good comments, and flagging abuse. one of the really interesting thing with the blockchain is that the info is stored forever, and therefore can be used with little to none censorship of ideas. unfortunately then we also get alot of spammers and some trollers, but on a social platform like this i think we as a community just should moderate without a quiz or similar alternatives!

:)

Password for First: pokertoday717
Password for Second: pokertoday749

Yeah, it's simpler if we self-regulate ;)

Interesting idea, one I've never heard of before. I don't know how effective it would be, maybe it would annoy good folks more than it would deter spammers? I mean, you seem to get a lot of awesome comments, and yes there are spammy ones, but the good vastly outweigh the bad on your page that's for sure!

Yup, it's not too much of an issue here, yet. Annoy people it would indeed. But other sites are more popular, and they have more issues hehe.

Touche my friend, touche...

I would actually rather not have to work so hard to use the site. Keep usage easy for the masses, only punish the abusers. Maybe a bot that recognizes strings of words like "follow you follow me" etc. The bot can "suspend" the account for a day after 3 strikes. If it's a spam account, they won't keep it up for long.

As far as "calming people down", when has putting someone on hold calmed them down? Lol. It feels like they are trying to buy some time to censor comments, imo.

What do you mean "suspend" the account?

Perhaps keeping it from commenting for 24 hrs.

There's no way to do that, as krnel said in his post.

Hiding them then. There has to be a way to make it hard for spammers without flagging. Flagging opens up flag wars and that isnt good for business.

What do you mean hiding them?

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Yeah, a report feature to report problem users, who then get a threshold that enables a quiz feature since they are known to be a problem poster, or suspend them for 3 days lol ;)

buy some time to censor comments

If they wanted to censor comments, they would just do that ;)

It's a good idea. There is little point in commenting on something that wasn't read or wasn't reflected on enough to be understood but everyone still does it. Waste of time for the OP and other commentators.

Yeah, attention seeking (for money on Steemit) :P

TL;DR, but upvoted nonetheless!

(I am joking of course! ;-) )

lol, best comment on topic I read today ;-)

Have a tiny upvote for that hilarity! :D

I'll chip in a couple cents for the laugh too.

If it was the author's option to do so, I'm onboard.

Yeah, they would set up the questions and answers. And could also opt out, and say I don't care about spam lol.

I agree, it could also be incentivized as well! Imagine making a reserve pool of 1 or 2 sbd that would get distributed to everyone that took the time and answered the questions correctly.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

On second thought this couldn't work on the blockchain(steem), the questionnaire and the answers would need to be elsewhere and issue some token through that, it would need to keep the answers from being farmed by bots that's for sure.

Hmm, the dream is easier than the application,...

Yup, there would need to be a bit of work, it might even be possible on the chain if someone figures out how to encrypt the answers, or preserve the integrity of the questionnaire.

A percentage of the post's rewards?

Author's choice of course :D

Hahahahaha... great piece, now you gonna definitely fail me in the quiz depending on the size of the post, I usually read the first and last paragraph and scheme through the rest, depending on the interest from the first and last paragraph I may consider reading the entire post, but there is a monetary value attach to a comment here, so it makes hands itchy to say something, you just never know, someone may take your shit as valuable... its profit on the blockchain

there is a monetary value attach to a comment here, so it makes hands itchy to say something

Haha yep.

Testing is an intriguing idea. However there may be genuine folks who comment who may be discouraged in the time involvement in responding. Yes it would reduce the spam and trolls however it may ALSO reduce the positive comments from which one may grow. A person may have more aggravated folks who are on their lunch break taking their time to comment on your post instead of having that extra cup of coffee and may leave a frustrating unproductive comment where it may have been a positive response. Perhaps someone who 'Appears' after say three posts to be a scammer would have to be put through that question process to qualify to comment or earn their way back through more posts. When they have earned their way back after 3 -4 posts they would not have to answer any quiz questions on future posts until they start scamming again. Sad to hear about Google and vietnam. I would fear that may come to America being test marketed in vietnam. Thanks for sharing. - Troy

Yeah, but many sites allow anonymous comments, or people can make up any email to use to comment. But being penalized for bad behavior is better than making everything go through extra crappy steps :P

They can track comment to the IP address or computer where it came from. Thanks - Troy

Although I am not fond of any ideas that limit engagement, I am hoping to get people to consider only upvoting comments that show they have read the article. Personally, I am voting articles at 1% and comments at a higher level.

I am only up-voting comments that show what I am calling POR. Proof of reading.

I want to see real live people who are reading, posting, commenting on others work.

(I am following you now!)

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

Yeah I try to upvote only comments that relate more that simply being generic. I'll upvote comments anywhere, 1%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 50%, 100%. It all depends on the quality of the information in the comment, like the posts I upvote as well. Quality of information if what I mean by "quality" in general usually. Thanks for the feedback, and good luck with your POR initiative. I've paid out SBD for comments before in February when my vote was like 4 cents hehe.

What @whatsup calls POR does exist - proof of human work (PoH) - and there is some research on it. Captcha is the classic PoH, something that computers find hard but humans find easy.
That is the sort of research we should be looking at to find viable solutions within the blockchain tech.

Well the bots are only one part. The issues was more to get relevant comments by testing if people read the content. So you ask about the content, not decipher a crazy captcha image hehe.

I as well don't think this will be implemented here on steemit but I can see how it would probably make engagement much better and the spam would be much less likely. It would be cool to see such a feature here for sure.

Testing comments be a good idea ... hate those spam comments saying "great post" 😂

I can always tell right away when people haven't read what I put that includes just a picture and a few words unbelievable

The idea of pre-testing I really like. About the second question — hard to answer. Could be a number of inappropriate comments will decrease, if will work "sieve". And can be not=))

Do you have T.P. for my bunghole? I would hate for my bungholio to get polio.

????

Sorry=) But I'm not a fan of "Beavis" :((

Instead of flags how about creating drop down that appears once comment is posted that would give OTHER users option to mark comment as relevant or irrelevant to the article/conversation and after X number of IRRELEVANT votes that comment should become invisible.

Any person who receives X number of "irrelevant" votes should have a cool off period before they can comment again.

This way we can avoid the retaliation behavior that FLAG garners while still encouraging people to mark the comments that dont add to the conversation as such!

People with your reputation and alike can definitely take steps to stop the trolling and spamming behavior on Steemit!

Thank you Krnel.

That's a good idea. Like a report feature. I've thought about that myself, as I don't like the flag or concentration of power that can abuse the flag.

Some people crave attention, when you know the timing doesn't match with ur content , you'll have all the answers

upvoted and resteemed. Thanks!

Thanks for the support.

I think this would be too analytical. Overthinking a problem or overthinking the solution to it (I have that overthinking mind too). Though it's just an idea, it can be perfected in the future.

There are some very valuable comments people can leave even if they don't read the article (scary, I know) and perhaps if we see an article we read 3 days ago and just remembered a comment we wanted to leave, but we forget the exact details of the post, then we could fail the questionnaire or be frustrated.

Just having to use the time to answer a quesionatire to leave a comment is annoying and frustrating itself. Though people could get used to it, it would change the landscape though. Imagine non-computer savvy people or foreign language speakers having to deal with this. Let's not punish the weak!...or rather create hurdles for them to come on such an awesome platform as steemit!

I guess I would be in favor of it, but I think that most people on Steemit would find it annoying and so it would make their Steemit experience less enjoyable.
Plus....if bots can auto post "oh wow such wonderful good post. It is so happy me to read it. Can you come reads my blog too."
...then this feature would be useless and just annoy the real users. Kinda like speed bumps. Idiots still rush over them or around them, but the honest drivers get to bear these monstrocities even though we would obey the slow speed anyway.
Hmmmmm...I think I may have just convinced myself that "No" I don't support adding this feature. If it could be added as an "On or Off" feature, that might be alright. Use at your own risk. Maybe turn on when spam is the worse, but turn it off a day or week later or month later.
Peace!!!

I think that most people on Steemit would find it annoying and so it would make their Steemit experience less enjoyable.

Yup. It's not something I would implement really (maybe voluntary per author), it was just an idea I wanted to shoot out for discussion to see what the community thought, as other sites do it.

I am tempted to say, "Hell no, we don't need that!" because I of course never troll or make toxic comments (who, me? Surely not, lol!) but that's a shallow reason.

Deeper would be that Steemit already incentivizes good behaviour so well that it scarcely seems necessary to put such a hoop to jump through for all participants. There are also a few questions that would need to be answered: how do you implement it? Does the post creator draft the questions manually -- or does a bot do machine-learning to the text and come up with them? Would it apply to comments replying other comments or only to the main body of the text (because I can see THAT gaping loophole for trolls and spammers -- and they sure as hell will too :D)

I would think it would apply to first level comment directly to the post. But it could be used to filter spam/hate on comments too. Pass it once per post and you can comment on anything there. The creator being responsible to filter is best.

That could really help because seeing first comments like "Wow, great article again bro!" after 1 min of posting is kinda suspicious. Same with the number of views and upvotes. How is this possible that the number of upvotes is higher then views...

Autovotes, and clicking upvote without opening the post.

exacly :/

i like idea that author setup questions himself , not automatic :) i think it might huge reduce comments in style: hello nice post, follow me :) you need to try to message this to heads mb someone will do it and increase quality of site

I'm interested to see the results of your poll.

My suggestion for the equivalent of a Steemit drivers license only had one person who disagreed with this type of Proof Of Readership (POR from @whatsup ) as they thought it would discourage people from joining.

That person also admittedly had 2 posts in the previous 3 weeks and didn't know there was a problem with comment spammers.

While I agree in general, you also don't want to keep engagement frictionless. Engagement builds community and community has an exponential infuence on positive engagement.

Frictionless? The point was about making sure comments were relevant, like real criticism can be.

I understand that, but if you add a barrier to entry, it will discourage authentic users with real meaningful comments.

Read all that s#!t https://steemit.com/flatearth/@reeferman/flat-earth-theory-an-introduction watch all the videos and IF you pass the exam... we will let you comment!

:-)

but... That would leave no one to comment on their posts !

Wait... AHA..... Genius !!!

You found a way to rid us of Flat-earthers !
Just encourage them to make those insane 10-page 20 video posts, and they'll never have a single comment again !

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Do you like the idea of testing or quizzing before commenting?

Doesn't sound great honestly

Will this help get rid of useless comments alone, or also reduce the overall amount of relevant comments?

I think no more if you don't force this implementation and instead just have your own four question quiz at the end of your post, but then I guess unless it is opinion based, people could just copy other peoples answers. I just talked myself out of this idea but I already typed it as I am thinking it so it's too late, I'm not deleting it.

Edit: I wish I had an idea to offer, I am thinking on this, but quiz itself doesn't seem right if forced. But I guess if each users has a tab in the back end where they can choose if people have to take the quiz or not maybe it a middle ground. At least this way you can see if users would enjoy blogs with or without those quizzes, as I can see different blogs maybe not even desiring this of their users.

dont know but congratulating replies (nice read, etc) and encouragements of followers cannot taken as useful comment, and this mean that there wouldnt be many real comments left :)

I rarely agree with others, so I usually end up leaving a comment that may not be in tune with the OP.

So what else? Regulations never work out in the long run, never. Look at the world today

I read all the post but as you said I don't really have anything meaningful to say

I think it is a good idea to test people before commenting...but I think we already know those types of comments added just for upvotes

If you built a questionnaire , wouldn't they just build a bot to beat the questions? If they want to be that person, they will be anyway. If it is terribly important to anyone to understand a single persons intentions, wouldn't it be better to review their posts, comments and friends? If you put out a huge blanket to catch a few bad actors, IMO, it will slow the progress of the positive work going on. If there are massive amounts of people stealing revenue, how about making bounties for other users to find possible manipulators and report them to the administrators? Is this a serious problem? I am sure some kids are on here just to learn to make money and watch videos on how to "beat" this platform and get rich. Is that really a bad thing? Maybe it should be kept in mind that those are some people's intentions and you may cut a space for them to live in this world and create and destroy as needed to make it truly a place where all can participate? Not harping on anyone, but being a realist. Let them do their thing, then learn how to curb their thirst for conquering into a healthy, creative energy that makes most happy and supports the community inside Steem. I know, I know, bullshit fantasy.

commenting specifically without reading.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)Reveal Comment

Don't comment with spam or irrelevant unrelated topics, because flat earth has everything to do with this post? Maybe I misunderstood what you were doing, but it seemed like spam to me. I'm getting annoyed at all the shit comments, sorry. I'll remove the flags.

Hi @krnel I've written an article about you, check it out, if you can? thanks.

30 Best Steemians Of The Day To Follow 1st August 2017

https://steemit.com/steemit/@jzeek/30-best-steemians-of-the-day-to-follow-1st-august-2017

If we implement your idea, noone will be able to comment on "flat theory" posts because noone will be able to pass the test, who in his right mind would spent countless hours reading and watching BS? Those posts would stay unchallenged and people would actually think that they are truth, noone said anything against them afterall.... right?

To say it in another way, would a scientist spent more of his time reading nonsense to pass a silly test in order to be able to comment on something that is fundamentally wrong?

Again, do this test for yourself, go to my "spam/irrelevant/unrelated" link about flat earth theory and check how much you are able to read and watch in order to pass a "test" so that you can comment on that post.

  ·  7 years ago (edited)

This wasn't even my idea to actually implement it on the site. It's just posting an idea from reading about it being done elsewhere, not that I want to do it. I get your point about having to go through so much to get the quiz right lol. Peace.